Don't Tell Me This Is Still Out There

Quoting from someone who has been able to play FM '09:

Corner Trick still works...

First of all, determine which player is the best corner taker you have. Make sure this player takes all corners. Next up, determine which player is best in the air. Positioning and all that ~love~ is not important, just look for a tall bloke (at least 1.85 metres) who can jump and head a ball (+15 for both stats). Set this strong header to "Challenge Goalkeeper" on attackng corner kicks. Set most other players to attack the near or far post or attack from deep. Then set the corner distribution to "6 yard box". What you end up with is a situation that looks a little something like this.

Please reupload this image to another image host:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5804/ajaxvpsvpitchuv0.png

The corner taker will swing the ball in towards #4 Vermaelen. Because there's no-one near the first post and the defender will not move off the line, there's no danger of the ball being cleared before it can reach Vermaelen. If the corner is taken in a proper manner, the ball will always reach Vermaelen. The stronger your header is in the air, the more chance of him scoring you'll have. I can average about 0.75 goal a game over a full season with this trick.

Just tried this now and it still works..

Please tell me that this was not overlooked.

This is considered a bug or not ?

There are two ways to counter act this, have a man 'closing down' the corner and have a man specifically marking said 'tall' defender from corners. That will combat it in online play.

So what you’re saying is that as a tester you are aware of this, but SI did not bother to fix it before release? I would take some comfort in your counter acting suggestions if the AI had this ability as well.

am i missing something or does that mean the "corner cheat" from fm 08 still works on 09? (For games balance reasons youve just explained)

is this something they cant fix without unbalancing the rest of the game?

What are these knock-on effects? If this is a weakness in the ME that could potentially ruin other facets of the game as well, it sure as hell would be nice if you told us.

Well don't use it against the AI. It's not just a case of telling the game 'defend corners better' it's a large issue that has massive knock-ons for the rest of the game.

So what you are saying is that the biggest cheat & most annoying bug that was left in FM08 is still there in the new game. I would have thought that would have been the 1st thing sorted once you were designing the new game. I know you can easily avoid it, which I did previously, but I would like to be given the option to challenge the keeper & play properly, otherwise why have it there. Incredible.

Just don't set 'aim corners to six yard box', leave it on 'mixed' and IMO it's more realistic. That's all you have to do.

But nbrocky you should not have to do that should you?

What is the point in having the instruction in tactics in the first place if it will generate unrealistic results?

Again I ask: what effects?

Oh.

My.

God.

If you don't want your defenders to score 100 goals a season, DON'T USE THIS SET UP.

Why is it so annoying? Is it like a spider in the bath spooking your girlfriend despite you both sitting in the living room watching X-Factor? She can't get comfortable so you HAVE to do something about it?

Or is it weak-willed gamers who will switch to this tactic if losing at half time?

I cannot believe that one of the most minor issues in FM08 caused so much anger. And I can't believe people are still complaining about it.

Chill. Willpower, dudes.

Oh, and if you set up your corners to do all this EXCEPT challenge GK you get a healthy return on corners but not silly. Your GK marker should attack ball from deep instead.

Its not a guarantee to score by using this method... well maybe if your tall guy has 20 jumping, 20 heading and strength.

My first season is almost over and ambrosini(17 jumping 18 heading 17 strength) only scored 5 goals .

I find that the AI actually man mark my best players quite well on corners .

Is it just me, or isn't the picture posted from 08 anyway?

A change in goals per game, defenders goals per game, goals from corners per game, knock ons to the entire marking system, goalkeepers positioning - the list could go on and on - basically the entire match engine. Every tiny tweak could essentially change everything as it is a very delicate process.

I know what you are saying, & it is easy to get around, but if there is this big problem why wasn't challenge goalkeeper removed from the game. Particularly if you are arguing that it cannot be solved without a lot of programming, which SI are not able to do even with a new game.

Its not a guarantee to score by using this method... well maybe if your tall guy has 20 jumping, 20 heading and strength.

My first season is almost over and ambrosini(17 jumping 18 heading 17 strength) only scored 5 goals .

I find that the AI actually man mark my best players quite well on corners .

yeah, i agree. the effectiveness has been toned down alot.

even if you use it, it is not as imbalanced as before and is alot more realistic in the amount of goals you score

I think the root of the problem lies in that all players in the game are just ghosts. I meant they can go through each other and can't be blocked by body. That was confirmed by PaulC if I didn't misunderstood him.

And at corners using body to blocka player and to not him move or jump is crucial irl. IRL in mst cases the player "challenging GK" won't be able to move 2 yards after the ball is hit by the corner taker and he is unlikely to even get off the ground. But it always happen in ME.

I highlighted it many times in FML beta but was told everything is ok and that there is no problem that absolute majority of teams use their most dangerous player at corners for challenging GK which absolute minority of teams do irl.

i thought the idea of football was to score goals. if you find a tactic that works then use it, look at stoke with rory delaps throw, its causing loads of trouble cos it effective. but if ya dont wanna score goals using this set up, try fiddling around to find something else that works. dont know what the big fuss is cos one minute its too easy to score goals, then it'll be too hard. some people are never happy

They could lower the scoring rate just by referee whistle blows. That is something that does increase when a player is challenging a goalkeeper in the box.

Oh.

My.

God.

If you don't want your defenders to score 100 goals a season, DON'T USE THIS SET UP.

Why is it so annoying? Is it like a spider in the bath spooking your girlfriend despite you both sitting in the living room watching X-Factor? She can't get comfortable so you HAVE to do something about it?

Or is it weak-willed gamers who will switch to this tactic if losing at half time?

I cannot believe that one of the most minor issues in FM08 caused so much anger. And I can't believe people are still complaining about it.

Chill. Willpower, dudes.

I'd like to declare this as post of the day. The spider in the bath bit I found extremely funny. But then maybe I'm strange

i thought the idea of football was to score goals. if you find a tactic that works then use it, look at stoke with rory delaps throw, its causing loads of trouble cos it effective. but if ya dont wanna score goals using this set up, try fiddling around to find something else that works. dont know what the big fuss is cos one minute its too easy to score goals, then it'll be too hard. some people are never happy

The problem is not its effectiveness. It's the AI's inability to recognize the problem and counteract it. Football (and most every sport) is a game of exploiting the other team's weak points. If the AI can't adapt its tactics, then there is a fundamental flaw in the game. I would never use the corner exploit, but SI should give serious thought to not putting out an annual game if it isn't giving them the time to correct GLARING problems.

Gees I WISH SI would take this whole matter a little more seriously rather than palming it off with the whole "don't use it" chestnut. I'm sorry but I like the game telling me what I can and can't do gamewise rather than myself setting the rules. Couldn't you just remove the relevant buttons in the next patch? I mean if its that delicate then fine you dont need to fiddle with the code- just remove the entry point to the flaw. Is it really THAT hard?

I cannot believe this has not been dealt with.

The effectiveness of corners has been tweaked, as nbrocky said - the delivery is less accurate, so it's much less of an issue.

There are, if I remember correctly tens, if not thousands, of parameters that influence corners in FM so it's a pretty big bowl of spaghetti to try and untangle. It's much improved, but not yet perfect.

That was my impression, anyway, having spoken to the devs at various points.

I have to say this stopped me enjoying 08 online in Clan nights. I basically lost a league title on it with another player using this and getting a silly amount of goals form central defenders getting something like twenty goals between them in a season….why work away I ask you like I enjoyed in CM03 of old.

Massively disappointed this is still the case…..disappointed with the Management team at SI who look to have pawned the Match engine of “live” with it regarded as well tested as its been in use for month and months…………well done!

Nothing against the other player, good bloke playing online I was purely annoyed that the game allowed this and a few other exploits that simply could not be policed online. That and the match engine trying its hardest to make European games as interesting and tense as it could seeing 4-5 Agg and 6-5 Agg games even seeing me lose 3-0 up in the last ten minutes as the Ai changed tactic but did not let you get back in to change your tactics…..

Having said that I was pleasantly surprise that the 3D in the Demo with the TV view actually looked remarkably good and I can really see this being a base to work from to the point you’re actually not just celebrating that killer goal but also just enjoying the sheer spectacle of it.

But I mean, surely all it takes to kill it off once and for all is to remove the buttons that allow the user to access it? ie challenge keeper/ aim at 6 yard box?

Ladies, the point is:

If this is an exploit out there, it is available to the AI as well.

You're managing one team and are playing against, say, 20 teams in one season. Although all other 20 teams may be different at first sight, all are managed by the same AI developed.

That means such an exploit could be used against you by most/every other team out there, say, when AI is left unable to counteract your tactics. Should you get a streak of losses and draws by being exposed to that "trick" (mixed with other goals you'd "normally/naturally" concede), you'd change your tactic, make unnecessary rotations through your squad etc etc. all stuff that would break your harmony, eventually leading to the decomposition of your team apart.

No, this is not fiction. Me and a friend -both being tactic freaks all along- have given up on playing FM '08 beacuse of that. Because whenever our teams (on different 6 games, all with 8.0.2 update, with different tactics) started to tie wins one after another, generally towards the mid-season we used to start getting hell of a load of goals scored against us, thanks to mostly corners and crosses flying in, headed/nodded/struck no matter what kind of defenders we used to prevent it from happening.

I, for one, -although I'm sure I'll be called one of the stereotypes who is said to be failing to overlook his tactical flaws and rather prefers whining about AI cheating- believe that AI tries (and eventually succeeds) to disrupt your team's success with using this "corner trick" method when it feels the need.

I've been playing CM/FM since CM2, intense enough to headhunt players from every corner of the world on a huge database, yet have never complained about or ****ed with AI.

Consequently, if this trick is still out there, it's available to the AI as well, not only to you.

Uh, and by the way, when we started using that trick, we were able to "equalise" the exploit, hence the expected success came through. Mathijsen scoring 15 goals throughout a season is something I was disgusted to see, however it was the only way we could feel competing on level terms.

Pretended, there's even suspicions of the game only play-acting the matches, people playing the same match ten times and losing it 9 times, despite trying a different tactic every time and all that.

I am convinced the game is in some ways stacked against the human player, despite SI assuring us in the past that this isn't the case.

At the same time I'm fine with that - all the sweeter is the taste of victory knowing you've overcome the odds and then some!

Pretended, there's even suspicions of the game only play-acting the matches, people playing the same match ten times and losing it 9 times, despite trying a different tactic every time and all that.

I am convinced the game is in some ways stacked against the human player, despite SI assuring us in the past that this isn't the case.

At the same time I'm fine with that - all the sweeter is the taste of victory knowing you've overcome the odds and then some!

Tactics are not the only factor. If you keep reloading just before the match and change tactics, morale of both your players and opposition players will be the same and all the other factors that affects the result of the match. Tactics are just one aspect.

Is there not an argument for this being a well worked tactic? Like a Bolton set-piece? That what you're doing here is dragging defenders out of position? If I'm being naive, sorry.

The problem here is that many players will probably stumble on this tactic on their own. I certainly did in the previous version with no knowledge of any 'corner cheat'. You feel like you've finally figured out a good corner tactic, only to find out it shouldn't be working like that. So you try other tactics and find you never score from corners and it tends to get irritating.

I'm not a developer, so I don't know how complicated this is to sort out, but challenge goalkeeper should mean that a player stands in front of the goalkeeper and tries to put him off, it doesn't mean he should be unmarked at the edge of the 6 yard box to head home. If a corner was actually lumped into that spot, with a defender on the keeper, the keeper would most likely either claim the ball or punch it away (unless he's a certain Spurs keeper). From what I've seen, keepers don't attack corners anywhere near enough, perhaps there should be an instruction to tell your keeper whether to attack the ball, or stay on his line.

Secondly, a lot of the more effective corner routines involve players moving around a lot; attacking from deep and cutting across to the near post for instance. Whenever I tell my players to attack the ball from deep, they start deep and usually stay deep, rather than starting to move when the corner taker starts his run up. If options like this gave us more mobility in our corner routines, we wouldn't need to use an exploit to score, as we could see that our instructions had a difference.

Finally, I know this was mentioned by some in FM08, but why aren't we given more defensive options, other than mark man, mark tall player, mark small player, cover post or close down corner. Setting up defensive routines might be more effective if you could assign specific marking instructions for corners, as you can for open play. I'd like to have a man at the front post, but stood on the edge of the 6 yard box. Countless corners are headed away in real life because they fail to clear the first man, instead we have to hope that a man standing 10 yards away from the corner taker can block it. This is a bit ridiculous, since it should be easy to get it round this man every time (and is infuriating for the attacker when it does hit him) and if it does get past him, it means you're missing a player in the box who could potentially head it clear.

Is there not an argument for this being a well worked tactic? Like a Bolton set-piece? That what you're doing here is dragging defenders out of position? If I'm being naive, sorry.

Well, for FM08 anyway, by using the certain instructions for corners you could have a centre back score 40 goals a season for example which no matter how good your set pieces are, is pretty unrealistic.