FM 2009 or any Si/Sega Product Second Hand?

I just want to gauge an official response from Sega or Sports interactive regarding the issue of purchasing FM second hand, and to get the opinions of the community.

It looks like the games industry is getting greedy and trying to stop games from being sold second hand in shops or to friend and family. Now, instead of assuming someone is a pirate or being 'evil' then lets assume a person has played Fm 2009 and for whatever reason has decided he/she does not want it anymore and has taken the steps to install the product from the computer. The person has then sold it on Ebay, to a friend or family for around half the price - the money that is involved in that transaction is 'cash in hand' HMS treasury wont see a penny and nor will Sega / Sports Interactive.

It seems it's the view of the industry that they feel that they're missing out on revenue due to games being sold second hand and seem to be furious at such stores as Game making money of second hand goods.

I don't see why game companies are entitled to money of second hand product - it's like Ford wanting money from a second hand sale of a sale I make privately.

Maybe someone can enlighten me....

A 2nd hand car is likely to be deteriorated compared to a brand new car.

Apart from the box/manual a piece of software will not be. So it's not entirely the same as selling a car.

You are breaking your license agreement if you sell FM, read the EULA.

A 2nd hand car is likely to be deteriorated compared to a brand new car.

Apart from the box/manual a piece of software will not be. So it's not entirely the same as selling a car.

How about a book that's kept in pristine quality?

You are not buying the CD when you buy FM09, you are buying the right to use it.

How about a book that's kept in pristine quality?

Who reads a book just to look at the paper?

As long as the words are still readable, then a book's true value shouldn't deteriorate either.

You are not buying the CD when you buy FM09, you are buying the right to use it.

I understand that, but IMO there's nothing morally wrong with selling a piece of software second hand...as long as it's uninstalled on the sellers system before it's sold.

It just seems to be greed and software industry using whatever excuse or convention it can just get more and more money.

If I sell a game to a friend or family member I will do so - I have no problem with it and my conscience is clear.

You are not buying the CD when you buy FM09, you are buying the right to use it.

yes its like he said

You are not buying the CD when you buy FM09, you are buying the right to use it.

When selling the game 2nd hand, are you not also selling your own right to use it? Is that not an acceptable transaction under copyright law?

ok same about dvds you pay to have the right to watch it not borrow it to a friend but you can sell them tho what different about that

When selling the game 2nd hand, are you not also selling your own right to use it? Is that not an acceptable transaction under copyright law?

Not under the EULA that SI have.

I'm not sure legally you can, can you?

ok same about dvds you pay to have the right to watch it not borrow it to a friend but you can sell them tho what different about that

You have to read the EULA on DVD's and compare that with SI's/SEGA's EULA and you will see a difference.

I'm not sure legally you can, can you?

Correct, you cannot sell DVD's.

Correct, you cannot sell DVD's.

but shops are happy to take them what about game,gamestation they take second hand games so are they in the wrong why has nothing been done

but shops are happy to take them what about game,gamestation they take second hand games so are they in the wrong why has nothing been done

It entirely depends on the EULA.

You are breaking your license agreement if you sell FM, read the EULA.

I haven't read SI's EULA - I did read EA's EULA for FIFA 09 game yesterday (don't judge me, I just don't like pro evo) which stipulated that you could sell the game, or transfer the game to someone else, with the proviso that you forfeited all rights to playing the game when you sold the game. It's like the old back-up laws, where you could make a back up of a CD providing when you got rid of the original, you got rid of the back up too.

If you're not allowed to sell the game second hand then that's a shame I think and, having defended SI's right to include DRM and IGA, I'd have to perform a u-turn and say that I think that's unfair.

Before anyone tries to tell me what I already know about copyright laws, I'm talking about the right to transfer the use of the game: in other words, when I buy a new game, I purchase the right to use the software (I don't purchase the software itself - a common misconception) - but I should (as is normally the case) be allowed to sell the right to use the software, second hand.

Like I say, I haven't actually seen the EULA for SI yet, but these are my thoughts on the matter, albeit I wouldn't consider this my most lucid post ever.

You are not buying the CD when you buy FM09, you are buying the right to use it.

we pay our hard earned money so why the hell should we be paying for the right to use it. without us not buying games they would be no computer games industry.people have been selling and buying second hand games for years give it a few years and u wont be able to buy them no more because they will all have this stupid 5 times install thing on

It's a very good point and its a sign of the times. Buy, buy, buy don't reuse, recycle, money, money, money and the big guy always beats the little guy.

Antony you have never bought a game, you have bought a right to play the game, that the same with any game.

The biggest problem is the EULA model is that its based on the whole concept that whatever software your buying, your buying a service, and not a product so unless theres mass movement towards people boycotting companies that take liberties the industry will slowly and surely take away all the rights you preceive you have when you buy a product, no backup copies, no re-selling, no installing on multiple computers that you own, etc etc etc

its be bad if they do that because people buy games for whatever price then play it and dont like it or have an old game they dont want no more and want to sell it.

if this is gunna be the case drop game prices because the price dosent represent value for money. if u loose all ur installs u have a worthless game

Last time I checked Game had stopped buying back PC games because of the issue's with activations codes and things of that ilk only being able to be used once.

IIRC gamestation still take pc games as part exchange.

ebay is your friend, plenty of second-hand games there.

IIRC gamestation still take pc games as part exchange.

Gamestation is owned by GAME nowadays so if they have stopped accepting PC games then i'm sure its the same with Gamestation!

the local gamestation still accepts part ex on pc games. so im not sure what to say here

i thought they still accept them but will not accept games like FM09 because of the authentication / DRM

I believe anywhere that accepts trade-ins for PC games won't accept any games with authentication or DRM such as anything to do with Half-Life 2, Spore etc. because obviously there's no guarantee that the person just hasn't authenticated it and used up all the installs.

I haven't read SI's EULA - I did read EA's EULA for FIFA 09 game yesterday (don't judge me, I just don't like pro evo) which stipulated that you could sell the game, or transfer the game to someone else, with the proviso that you forfeited all rights to playing the game when you sold the game. It's like the old back-up laws, where you could make a back up of a CD providing when you got rid of the original, you got rid of the back up too.

If you're not allowed to sell the game second hand then that's a shame I think and, having defended SI's right to include DRM and IGA, I'd have to perform a u-turn and say that I think that's unfair.

Before anyone tries to tell me what I already know about copyright laws, I'm talking about the right to transfer the use of the game: in other words, when I buy a new game, I purchase the right to use the software (I don't purchase the software itself - a common misconception) - but I should (as is normally the case) be allowed to sell the right to use the software, second hand.

Like I say, I haven't actually seen the EULA for SI yet, but these are my thoughts on the matter, albeit I wouldn't consider this my most lucid post ever.

The FM08 EULA stated you couldn't sell the game on, whilst EA's EULAs allow you to transfer the game/license to someone else (which is what most games in the past have allowed) they won't provide extra activations to the second buyer.

Though with the ability to reclaim the FM09 activations, that shouldn't be a problem with fm09.

(Also if you un-install the game then are you not saying you no longer agree to the license, or on re-install click no to the license, meaning you don't agree to the license and thus can then sell the game on - having un-installed and rejected the license on each of your computers so the game is back to as new with 5 activations left).

(Though don't take any of the other above as legal advice in any way or form)

Though with the ability to reclaim the FM09 activations, that shouldn't be a problem with fm09.

As long as if you got FM09 second hand you trust that the previous owner has uninstalled the game properly.

A 2nd hand car is likely to be deteriorated compared to a brand new car.

Apart from the box/manual a piece of software will not be. So it's not entirely the same as selling a car.

Of course it is. Age and therefore current relevance impact greatly on the price on software.

How much would a new copy of CM01/02 sell for these days?

Or Windows 95?

Even in their original quality, they will be not resale for their original price because they have been surpassed by future releases, and are simply out of date.

How quickly do companies have to depreciate software as an asset? I think it's something like over 3 years, which tells you about the 'life' of software. A car will hold its value far longer than software because it's not so rapidly out of date (with the exception of car crashes etc).