"The new DRM will ruin the game!"

Right, now that I've got your attention:

Here's a point to consider...

Back in the day we had the same ol' Key Code printed on the back of manuals (Red Alert 2 comes to mind) - naturally the only difference is that such codes are now one use only, and there is the expectation that we are connected to the internet.

Given such a vast porportion of households are connected to the internet, or a phone connection of some description for that matter, could someone explain to me how the new system fundamentally differs from that in place some 10 years ago, and in turn explain why you're all so grumpy?

I think the main worries with DRM are what it installs/leaves on your computer without your knowledge (unless you read lots of small print) and the limited installation thing, which with FM's DRM, I don't understand why it would be such an issue either.

Well, to be fair, a limited number of installs - which many of the recent DRM-schemes incorporate - means potential problems running the game a few years from now. You can't just pick it out of the shelf and expect it to work; there still needs to be activation servers or support hotlines to call, and you can't have exceeded the limited number of installs. While this probably poses a problem for only a fractional number of consumers in practice, it's an artificial limitation that people rightfully would rather do without. Also, not to have a pop at SI or SEGA, but these schemes have proven fruitless in terms of limiting piracy, so in the end it's really just an additional worry for the legitimate customer. Hence, certain publishers are starting to move away from the DRM model..

Right, now that I've got your attention:

Here's a point to consider...

Back in the day we had the same ol' Key Code printed on the back of manuals (Red Alert 2 comes to mind) - naturally the only difference is that such codes are now one use only, and there is the expectation that we are connected to the internet.

Given such a vast porportion of households are connected to the internet, or a phone connection of some description for that matter, could someone explain to me how the new system fundamentally differs from that in place some 10 years ago, and in turn explain why you're all so grumpy?

As I said in the other thead - if it's not that big of a difference, then why the need to change systems?

There are enough threads on this. No need to create another one in all honesty.

these schemes have proven fruitless in terms of limiting piracy

I heartily disagree with that. The program I do the helpdesk for (costs 350 Euros for the normal user version) has an activation policy as well (only TWO activations possible - SEGA are being generous) and it really helps us to catch out people who hand the program out to their pals or who think they can staff their entire office with only one license. Or who sell it on but keep using it.

There's also people who simply honestly didn't realize the EULA limitations - we can set them straight, no harm done to us or them.

As far as SEGA needing to keep activation servers alive - let that be their concern. By implementing this technology, they commit themselves to providing the possibility to activate the program for as long as the program doesn't reach end-of-life. When it does (many years from now), they'll probably hand out some 'non-expiring' or 'unlimited activation' licenses for the few hard-core fans who still play the game.

In the past, SI used to protect CM/FM by making it mandatory to have the disk in the drive - therefore committing themselves to being able to deliver the CDs if the customers would be in need of them (when CDs break or get lost) - no one ever doubted their willingness or ability to deliver those.

Of course you can think of scenarios in which the activation policy backfires somehow. No battleplan ever survives contact with the enemy. However, these cases will be few and far between and knowing SI, they will be dealt with in a spirit of leniency and fairness.

I can hear the cries of 'fanboi' already - consider this: I wouldn't be writing the above paragraph if I didn't believe it is true - SI have turned me into a loyal customer over the years, I have no reason to believe otherwise!

cosign the above

well said DJ

Sure, it will stop people from lending the game to their friends, but it does nothing to stop it from being pirated. It will - just like every other commercial PC game in history - inevitably be available illegally without limitations (such as activations), which one could easily argue makes the illegal option more appealing. Said friend can just get it that way instead of loaning a disc and do whatever he wants with it, unlike the legitimate customer with his crippled edition. Also, the traditional CD/DVD check ultimately leaves the customer in control; as long as you keep your disc safe your game will work. Remote activation puts you squarely in the hands of the publisher granting an activation, and not everyone is - quite rightfully - so keen on such a change for the worse for them.

I've been a gamer for a little over 15 years now and literally own several book cases full of PC games, but especially as a collector I'm not happy about these new protections. Heck, half the publishers and studios behind the games I own aren't even around anymore, and it frustrates me that what I pay money for these days is an inferior product to what others pirate for nothing.

I think the main worries with DRM are what it installs/leaves on your computer without your knowledge (unless you read lots of small print) and the limited installation thing, which with FM's DRM, I don't understand why it would be such an issue either.

SI have said that one of the reasons this chose this DRM system is that it doesn't leave anything behind on the computer if you uninstall.

Sure, it will stop people from lending the game to their friends, .

Actually, it will encourage people to lend it to their friends or for 2 or 3 friends to buy the game together knowing they have 5 installations to work with.

Actually, it will encourage people to lend it to their friends or for 2 or 3 friends to buy the game together knowing they have 5 installations to work with.

That's what I thought as well. Especially now you don't need the disk in to play it.

That's what I thought as well. Especially now you don't need the disk in to play it.

Even though it is illegal it will be done loads

Actually, it will encourage people to lend it to their friends or for 2 or 3 friends to buy the game together knowing they have 5 installations to work with.

I bet SI never thought of that:rolleyes:

Even though it is illegal it will be done loads

Agreed.

Isn't it illegal to lend a DVD or music CD you've bought with your friends. I wonder if SI members and the very holy Miles Jacobson have ever done that?

Activation, Activation, Activation, three immortal words that no "gamer" should ever have to hear, let alone feel forced to write a post about.

We are all very well aware of the problems faced by Piracy, but the fact of the matter is, is that no matter what Sports Interactive/Sega do, within a very short space of time, Football Manager 2009 is going to appear on a whole host of websites for people to grab for free and with not much effort, with the previously mentioned Activation disabled or circumvented.

Therefore with this reality foretold, I do not see the benefits to penalising your customers and ensuring that we (who buy the game with our hard earned money, and pay your wages) have as difficult a time as possible actually playing the game (thats after we've handed over our hard earned money, and paid your wages).

Im actually debating whether or not to purchase the game now, I purposefully did not buy Red Alert 3 or Spore for these exact same reasons, Activation and DRM are just things that irritate me, and serve more to penalise the loyal customer than they actually do the pirate or non paying customer as the politically correct term may be.

I buy the game from the shop, I do not then expect to come home and have to "Activate" my copy the actually play the game, I also do not wish to have to have an install limit, I tend to do a lot of formats, and I am not looking forward to the prospect of phoning SI Tech Support and running up my phone bill even more, taking photo's of my receipts and sending them in just to prove I have the game and be given another CD-Key.

I would also like to install the game on a Laptop i own so that when im at work or out and about, i want to take my copy (which ive purchased) of FM with me.

Just because you have "Activation" or "Authentication" features in the game, what Sports Interactive/SEGA assume that Piracy is going to be wiped out for FM09?! - If anything it will serve as a point for pirates to crack it faster and basically say "stfu".

Your actually doing to very opposite to what you seek to achieve, and whoever sits in the boardrooms at SI needs to have a long hard look at this Activation system and ask themselves, Do we really want to penalise and make life as difficult as possible for our paying customers? - while the pirates will be playing the same game without any of this fuss.

Piracy happens, It will always happen, and I personally dont believe there is anything anybody can do to stop it. SI/SEGA cant do anything about it either, but penalising your loyal customers is not the way forward.

I would like to think that this is a measure introduced by SEGA rather than Sports Interactive, Give us a break guys, stop these draconian measures now, before users lose trust, get annoyed and walk away from one of the most trusted game developers in the world. Sports Interactive - We thought you were on our side!.

Feel free to reply.

I disagree

I disagree

- If you cant activate the game, then you cant play the game, i guess your looking forward to the servers being swamped on release day.

- Install limits, you fall victim to a virus and have to format your computer, oh you've reached your install limit, and its a sunday night at 11.00pm Sports Interactive Customer Support aren't open.

- Say you get through to Sports Interactive Customer Support, and you ask for another CD-Key to install the game, after being put on hold for a million minutes, you have to send in receipts of purchase, give them your CD-Key, they might not even let you E-Mail them in, you might have to post them, thats how many days until you can install the game again? and then have to activate it ... again

- Your buying the game, but not actually playing it when you want, rather when Sports Interactive allow you too

- People who download the game, dont have to deal with having to prove they are genuine to Sports Interactive, they just load up and play, install as many times as they like, they wont have to be ringing anybody because they've reached their install limit.

Infact what your saying is, make it as difficult as possible for the legitimate customer.

... and yet you disagree?

I disagree too.

What do you disagree with specifically?

i agree, but people on here will disagree with you cause of your lack of posts, if you had no life so you could get few thousand posts they would listen to you ;/

What do you disagree with specifically?

Specifically, I disagree with your opinion

I disagree

I disagree too.

Come on lads. Post something constructive instead of pointless posts like that.

I disagree too.

i agree, but people on here will disagree with you cause of your lack of posts, if you had no life so you could get few thousand posts they would listen to you ;/

Yeah i think so too.

The points are extremely valid, people are entitled to their opinions, but to disagree on this matter is just plain stupid i feel.

I for one will not support a game being wrecked by DRM and a companies quest to stamp out piracy that impedes the genuine paying customer, which is what will happen, so I will not be buying the game.

I couldn't agree much more to be honest, I for one a life long CM & FM fan from the very first game my dad brought home for me when I was a kid will now not be buying this game for the first time.

As gamers we should take a stand and say NO TO DRM and NO TO ACTIVATION, it has been proved over and over again that any software can be broken, cracked or copied how ever you look at it.

The simple fact is, if a team of X number of people can write a piece of software, another team of X number of people can write a program to decrypt, cypher or whatever. Even the strongest military encryptions can be broken, this may take time and alot of CPU power to do but these days with BOT NETs or resources on your side it can be done sooner.

I don't agree that we should be treated as criminals until we have "Activated" the OFFLINE product. Now you have to have an internet connection to play, no more installing it at the office for many!

Specifically, I disagree with your opinion

I asked for specifics, if you think that this whole activation thing is a great thing, then good luck to you, dont get upset on release day when you cant activate, or even when you try to install after a few formats. Enjoy the problems that invariably come with Activation/DRM

It will take a couple of minutes to authorize the game, I just don't understand the problem. Also as for the 5 installs, if you install it on more than 2/3 computers I would like to know why and if your computer has totally died 5 times then its quite frankly not worth having...

Activation, Activation, Activation, three immortal words that no "gamer" should ever have to hear, let alone feel forced to write a post about.

We are all very well aware of the problems faced by Piracy, but the fact of the matter is, is that no matter what Sports Interactive/Sega do, within a very short space of time, Football Manager 2009 is going to appear on a whole host of websites for people to grab for free and with not much effort, with the previously mentioned Activation disabled or circumvented.

Therefore with this reality foretold, I do not see the benefits to penalising your customers and ensuring that we (who buy the game with our hard earned money, and pay your wages) have as difficult a time as possible actually playing the game (thats after we've handed over our hard earned money, and paid your wages).

Im actually debating whether or not to purchase the game now, I purposefully did not buy Red Alert 3 or Spore for these exact same reasons, Activation and DRM are just things that irritate me, and serve more to penalise the loyal customer than they actually do the pirate or non paying customer as the politically correct term may be.

I buy the game from the shop, I do not then expect to come home and have to "Activate" my copy the actually play the game, I also do not wish to have to have an install limit, I tend to do a lot of formats, and I am not looking forward to the prospect of phoning SI Tech Support and running up my phone bill even more, taking photo's of my receipts and sending them in just to prove I have the game and be given another CD-Key.

I would also like to install the game on a Laptop i own so that when im at work or out and about, i want to take my copy (which ive purchased) of FM with me.

Just because you have "Activation" or "Authentication" features in the game, what Sports Interactive/SEGA assume that Piracy is going to be wiped out for FM09?! - If anything it will serve as a point for pirates to crack it faster and basically say "stfu".

Your actually doing to very opposite to what you seek to achieve, and whoever sits in the boardrooms at SI needs to have a long hard look at this Activation system and ask themselves, Do we really want to penalise and make life as difficult as possible for our paying customers? - while the pirates will be playing the same game without any of this fuss.

Piracy happens, It will always happen, and I personally dont believe there is anything anybody can do to stop it. SI/SEGA cant do anything about it either, but penalising your loyal customers is not the way forward.

I would like to think that this is a measure introduced by SEGA rather than Sports Interactive, Give us a break guys, stop these draconian measures now, before users lose trust, get annoyed and walk away from one of the most trusted game developers in the world. Sports Interactive - We thought you were on our side!.

Feel free to reply.

We have to activate, tuff shizzle.

We have to activate, tuff shizzle.

I would love to hear you say that when your net goes down and you've just formatted.

I would absolutely love it!

It will take a couple of minutes to authorize the game, I just don't understand the problem. Also as for the 5 installs, if you install it on more than 2/3 computers I would like to know why and if your computer has totally died 5 times then its quite frankly not worth having...

If my computer has died five times then its not worth having?

Virus - 1 Format and 1 Installation

Trojan - 1 Format and 1 Installation

Corrupt Driver - 1 Format and 1 Installation

Install on Laptop - 1 Installation

Hard Drive Fails - 1 Installation / New Hard Drive

So just from that list of very probable events, i have five installations and 4 formats.

You clearly dont have a clue about computing or you would never post something so stupid.

Can people stop being so anal everytime someone is in disagreement with a thread starter.

The guy said 'feel free to reply' at the end of his post, and so I felt free to voice my opinion. And my opinion is that 'I disagree'.

The reason and acute details of my disagreement are not of any concern.

Can people stop being so anal everytime someone is in disagreement with a thread starter.

The guy said 'feel free to reply' at the end of his post, and so I felt free to voice my opinion. And my opinion is that 'I disagree'.

The reason and acute details of my disagreement are not of any concern.

Its called courtesy, I disagree with you .... because XYZ.

Tell people why you disagree, if your all for this DRM then let us know why?

Your looking forward or support the install limit and activiation?

If my computer has died five times then its not worth having?

Virus - 1 Format and 1 Installation

Trojan - 1 Format and 1 Installation

Corrupt Driver - 1 Format and 1 Installation

Install on Laptop - 1 Installation

Hard Drive Fails - 1 Installation / New Hard Drive

So just from that list of very probable events, i have five installations and 4 formats.

You clearly dont have a clue about computing or you would never post something so stupid.

You can uninstall the game to get back an install. Your computer getting busted 5 times so that you are unable to install each time is extremely unlikely.

Fairly unlikely and if it does, im not going to cry about it. Just wait until i can get it going again.

If it does happen i will make a thread addressed to you so you can "Love it", but i suspect you it wont and i will carry on playing without a hitch. As seems to happen every year.

If my computer has died five times then its not worth having?

Virus - 1 Format and 1 Installation

Trojan - 1 Format and 1 Installation

Corrupt Driver - 1 Format and 1 Installation

Install on Laptop - 1 Installation

Hard Drive Fails - 1 Installation / New Hard Drive

So just from that list of very probable events, i have five installations and 4 formats.

You clearly dont have a clue about computing or you would never post something so stupid.

Well I had my old computer for around 3 years and never had to format my machine or anything and same with my current one for about a year. Everyone I know is the same aswell. :confused:

Can people stop being so anal everytime someone is in disagreement with a thread starter.

The guy said 'feel free to reply' at the end of his post, and so I felt free to voice my opinion. And my opinion is that 'I disagree'.

The reason and acute details of my disagreement are not of any concern.

Your post is totally pointless and adds nothing to the thread. If you cannot make a constructive post saying why you disagree then I think it is better not posting at all.

You can uninstall the game to get back an install. Your computer getting busted 5 times so that you are unable to install each time is extremely unlikely.

Thats going to be small comfort if my machine is blue screening due to a graphics/mobo driver update or for a whole host of reasons, this is over a long period of time, putting install limits on things is not viable or acceptable to me as a paying customer, which i wont be unless this is reversed.

Fairly unlikely and if it does, im not going to cry about it. Just wait until i can get it going again.

If it does happen i will make a thread addressed to you so you can "Love it", but i suspect you it wont and i will carry on playing without a hitch. As seems to happen every year.

Please, please do let me know if this does happen.

I find it strange that your happy to have to wait to play something you've purchased, but if your willing to sit around and wait then thats up to you.

I would love to hear you say that when your net goes down and you've just formatted.

I would absolutely love it!

Surely he could use the telephone?

Well I had my old computer for around 3 years and never had to format my machine or anything and same with my current one for about a year. Everyone I know is the same aswell. :confused:

And you've never had one piece of malware/virus in that time? - youre extremely lucky.

I format at least once every six months, just to remove the junk from installation/uninstallation of programs etc.

Yeah, I disagree too. I don't see this whole thing as any big deal.

5 current installs allowed. No problem only play on one machine and could never imagine needing it on more than two. Leaves me three for emergency.

Uninstall and get a seat back.

Every pc game I buy I have a hard copy of the reciept plus a copy on my HD, and in a file in two email accounts. One I listed when I ordered and one I forward it to for safe keeping.

Authenticating once takes less time than putting in the dvd every time I decide to play. No, I don't leave my game disks in the drive. While I know it doesn't hurt it just doesn't go with my anal ways:)

If I ever bought a laptop so I could take FM with me, which I don't anticipate doing, I don't have to carry the disk with me.

IMHO it is Sega\SI's property they can sell it on whatever terms they think is fair and is good for the company.

Quite honestly I don't see any real downside with this whole thing that has any effect on me.

Surely he could use the telephone?

Im sure he can, if its after 5pm though theres going to be no one there, so he would have to wait until the next day to play something he went to shop and purchased.

Please, please do let me know if this does happen.

I find it strange that your happy to have to wait to play something you've purchased, but if your willing to sit around and wait then thats up to you.

Oh dont worry i will.

The reason i'm willing to wait is because i have to. I purchased a game yes but by purchasing that game i have agreed to activate it and to only have 5 installs. So where is your argument?

You dont want to agree to those terms then tuff.

Activation, Activation, Activation, three immortal words that no "gamer" should ever have to hear, let alone feel forced to write a post about.

We are all very well aware of the problems faced by Piracy, but the fact of the matter is, is that no matter what Sports Interactive/Sega do, within a very short space of time, Football Manager 2009 is going to appear on a whole host of websites for people to grab for free and with not much effort, with the previously mentioned Activation disabled or circumvented.

Therefore with this reality foretold, I do not see the benefits to penalising your customers and ensuring that we (who buy the game with our hard earned money, and pay your wages) have as difficult a time as possible actually playing the game (thats after we've handed over our hard earned money, and paid your wages).

Im actually debating whether or not to purchase the game now, I purposefully did not buy Red Alert 3 or Spore for these exact same reasons, Activation and DRM are just things that irritate me, and serve more to penalise the loyal customer than they actually do the pirate or non paying customer as the politically correct term may be.

I buy the game from the shop, I do not then expect to come home and have to "Activate" my copy the actually play the game, I also do not wish to have to have an install limit, I tend to do a lot of formats, and I am not looking forward to the prospect of phoning SI Tech Support and running up my phone bill even more, taking photo's of my receipts and sending them in just to prove I have the game and be given another CD-Key.

I would also like to install the game on a Laptop i own so that when im at work or out and about, i want to take my copy (which ive purchased) of FM with me.

Just because you have "Activation" or "Authentication" features in the game, what Sports Interactive/SEGA assume that Piracy is going to be wiped out for FM09?! - If anything it will serve as a point for pirates to crack it faster and basically say "stfu".

Your actually doing to very opposite to what you seek to achieve, and whoever sits in the boardrooms at SI needs to have a long hard look at this Activation system and ask themselves, Do we really want to penalise and make life as difficult as possible for our paying customers? - while the pirates will be playing the same game without any of this fuss.

Piracy happens, It will always happen, and I personally dont believe there is anything anybody can do to stop it. SI/SEGA cant do anything about it either, but penalising your loyal customers is not the way forward.

I would like to think that this is a measure introduced by SEGA rather than Sports Interactive, Give us a break guys, stop these draconian measures now, before users lose trust, get annoyed and walk away from one of the most trusted game developers in the world. Sports Interactive - We thought you were on our side!.

Feel free to reply.

Your missing the point why the measures on this years FM are being taken, your right that customers wont be happy, but them customers are SOME customers, not all! You have to appreciate that while no game is protected by piracy, there is something called control...that is those who pass thier copy around to other people and so on, its just not all about piracy. You have to remember that FM gamers should understand and appreciate such measures...afterall what if everyone passed around 1 copy...what will happen to the game and its future? I buy my game every year and I hate those people who get their copy some other way and your right that it costs you more money to activate it...but you can always activate it through Steam.

As for the formatting of your computer...now your being silly, I have had my laptop for over a year and not once have I formatted it, i've had viruses on it, Trojans, you just need the protection and there is loads of free protection out there, and all mine is free.

Im sure he can, if its after 5pm though theres going to be no one there, so he would have to wait until the next day to play something he went to shop and purchased.

Isn't it just an automated service though? I'm sure SEGA aren't hiring staff to take calls are they? :confused:

Also surely you can just uninstall the game before you reformat your computer?

And you've never had one piece of malware/virus in that time? - youre extremely lucky.

I format at least once every six months, just to remove the junk from installation/uninstallation of programs etc.

And you can uninstall the game before formatting. Look, personally, I think it is pointless worrying about it as I already said it is extremely unlikely that it would happen that you cannot uninstall the game 5 times.

And you've never had one piece of malware/virus in that time? - youre extremely lucky.

I format at least once every six months, just to remove the junk from installation/uninstallation of programs etc.

Use this if you have problems http://www.ccleaner.com/

Once every six months?...you should not have to do that at all.

Forcing the paying customer to jump through hoops is not great PR.

SI have said that one of the reasons this chose this DRM system is that it doesn't leave anything behind on the computer if you uninstall.

And you believed them like many but sadly like most games publisher/creators they dont speak the truth or very economical.

Sorry to say the DEMO left on my machine what miles said it would completely remove I am seeing on my computer after de-installing FM2009 DEMO correctly the DRM certificates its TAG to devices which hardware components are on my machine it did NOT remove its junk and now leaves this residual junk permantly.

If the DEMO can do this what will the main thing do. Did we get told the DEMO was DRM'd

no.

I uninstalled FM2009 at one point my stance was wavering and possible going to buy it as really enjoyed the demo despite what I had said. Reason is I love the game I want that honest SI back before big corporate influinces turned them. Now the DRM did not remove I will no longer buy the game NOW period for the PC.

will now carry on playing FM2008 trying to get gainsborough in the prem. FM2008 will be the last game I will have bought for my PC seriously thinking just chucking my PC in dustbin going mac or just using ps3 for internet/gaming and NO I wount get it foul means SI dont deserve to be short changed I think SEGA evil has done this I am finished from PC gaming for good. If SI do a ps3 version in the future then great I willl buy it they will get my money.

Until Pc gaming industry stop treating customers like leprosy evil cretins I might decide to buy in time.

Forcing the paying customer to jump through hoops is not great PR.

There is always FM08 or below.

Forcing the paying customer to jump through hoops is not great PR.

If its too much hassle for you don't buy.