Individual Menatality Needs to be RELATIVE to Team Mentality NOW

The old system of Individual Mentality overriding Team is just not good enough now it's so apparent how important the gap system is (just read what your Ass Man says about gaps).

Do SI seriously think people are going to adjust ELEVEN Individual Menatalities multiple times during the game?

Make them all relative and we only need to change ONE slider. The TEAM one.

ATM it's an unbelievable pain to change during the game to suit game situations (down 2 goals early, a goal up late, under heavy pressure, etc.).

At a time when the game is more and more demanding of time and effort it's just not good enough that the game is making things this hard and time consuming.

The old system of Individual Mentality overriding Team is just not good enough now it's so apparent how important the gap system is (just read what your Ass Man says about gaps).

Do SI seriously think people are going to adjust ELEVEN Individual Menatalities multiple times during the game?

Make them all relative and we only need to change ONE slider. The TEAM one.

ATM it's an unbelievable pain to change during the game to suit game situations (down 2 goals early, a goal up late, under heavy pressure, etc.).

At a time when the game is more and more demanding of time and effort it's just not good enough that the game is making things this hard and time consuming.

I was thinking about this earlier, and i totally agree.

I think a players individual mentality shouldn't be at the managers discretion, with the arbitrary movement of some slider.

Instead of having a individual player sliders, it should instead be down to the particular player attributes, personal mentality and the position he plays, which would determine individual mentality.

Team mentality now seems to have become obselete.

i donmt understand. do u not have a team mentality to make them more attacking?

i donmt understand. do u not have a team mentality to make them more attacking?

When individual mentality is set. Team mentality is no longer apparent.

Edit: Unless all out attack/defend is selected... I think.

Yes but say that I've got my wingers and strikers with an attacking mentality (naturally), but we've scored a late-ish one and I want to try and hold onto what we've got. I now need to go to each individual player and slide them down to something more defensive. If they then score and I need to chase a goal again I've got to go back in and adjust them all again.

So why not have the team slider affect the whole team, and the individual one to tweak it. So you all play defensively but the wingers/strikers are willing to attack too.

Postal no-one has the Team Mentality slider to make them more attacking when Individual Mentalities are set. Because Individual overrides Team. If you have a player set to Normal *it doesn't matter what you do with the Team slider*.

And now setting Individual Mentalities has become close to essential it has made Team Mentality near obsolete. That's why Team needs to be RELATED to Individual.

Why not just make preset formations for different situations?

I'd find team sliders wayyyyy too simplistic and limiting to the MO.

Why not just make preset formations for different situations?

I'd find team sliders wayyyyy too simplistic and limiting to the MO.

1. I don't want to change Formation. I just want to change Mentality, as the situation dictates.

2. It would take 10/15 of your "Formations" (and the time taken to set them up) for what I could do with ONE Formation with a Relative Slider. You're setting up all these "Formations" (that actually have nothing to do with Formations) just to deal with the fact the Team slider doesn't work anymore.

3. I'd need 5/10/15 "Formations" for each real formation I'd use. That's like 50/75/100 of your Formations. Pretty Ridiculous.

4. Why should anyone have to spend all the time and effort to set up the above just to make up for the lack of usability in the game?

5. The Team slider is only way too simplistic because it does not relate to the Individual sliders.

6. Because people are now having to use Individual Mentalities the Team one is now near redudant anyway, no matter what you do.

Really anyone who is using the Individual Mentalities (Nike, Band of Two, etc) this absolutely needs changing.

Why don't you try using team mentality to control a group of players and individual mentalities to control key individuals such as centrebacks and striker?

Ok, I thought they were already related. Team-mentality was the overall style of play to go for and then player's had their mentality related to that. If this isn't the case, I've been fooled well enough with the lack of intuitive info FM gives me. Awesome.

I overcame this annoyance by making most of my players have the team mentality. In the long run, it makes more sense anyway.

I thought it was the same as many people here, The individual slider is a range within the team slider. But if you think about this example, it makes less sense:

When the players are in ultimate defense team slider, AND in super defensive individual slider, they can't get more defensive than ultimate defense.

Easily done by not using individual stats and sticking to the overall slider.... don't understand either the fuss or the need for suich a beligerrent thread title.

Look at the people who thought it was always related.

Look at the people setting up Individual sliders to get realistic systems in the Tactics forum for each player (and then finding they have to change ever slider individually to push up/drop back).

Look at the people puzzled about Ass Mans saying "Tighten gap between defence/midfield/attack".

For those just using Team, that's fine, if you want Vidic and Ronaldo playing with the same mentality (which real life would be absurd).

For those using a combo of Team/Individual - say D on 6, Attack on 12, Midfield on Team setting of 9 - see what happens, and what your Ass Man says, when you move the Team slider to 6 or 12. He'll tell you you've just opened up huge gaps in your team.

I will just play a standard 442 again, win everything again, and laugh at all the e-Alex Fergusons pretend to be tactical geniuses , when i reality the tactics module is meh.

Every year people come up with this claim or that claim, yet no one i know bothers spending hours tinkering with moving this or that slider up or down 1 notch, yet we all manage to have success in the game , go figure.

how would my team play if i set indevidual mentalities to ultra defence but team to all out attack?

I think you try to hard, set up a formation and a tactic that suits your players, then have a different tactic for when you need a goal and maybe one for defending a lead, too much tinkering will have a negative effect IMO. And I believe more than two formations is too much.

how would my team play if i set indevidual mentalities to ultra defence but team to all out attack?

It wouldn't matter as the individual player instructions would deem the team instructions obsolete. Which is a flaw!

I have always wanted +1 and -1 buttons next to team mentality that would change everybody's individual mentality relative to what it was. I would be able to set individual mentalities as I saw fit and could then change everyone's by the same amount quickly. So if I had players on 8, 10, and 12 mentality and I was trying to chase the game I could press the +1 button twice and those players would move to 10, 12, and 14, instead of going to each individual player and making those changes.

Why don't you try using team mentality to control a group of players and individual mentalities to control key individuals such as centrebacks and striker?

This is what I do. Don't tell me this does not work?!

What I've kinda wished for in the past is the ability to somehow either:

a) increase/decrease all mentalities (team AND individual) by the same amount; e.g. increase everyone's mentality by 1 or 2 in one go; or

b) define player's mentality as an offset, e.g. the centre backs are -5 from the team mentality, one striker on +2, one on team etc. Then changing the team mentality slider would also affect all players.

method a) has the advantage that you could use the normal team mentality slider (for when you don't want to change individual settings) or shift all mentalities by a certain amount (for when you want all your players to be slightly more offensive or defensive). You'd probably want +/- buttons as opposed to a slider to apply these changes. I wouldn't mind something similar for closing down and CF either. I'd probably want to exclude the GK though and only apply the changes to outfield players.

Edit: seems roversawh7 just posted the same thing while I was typing this...

I will just play a standard 442 again, win everything again, and laugh at all the e-Alex Fergusons pretend to be tactical geniuses , when i reality the tactics module is meh.

Every year people come up with this claim or that claim, yet no one i know bothers spending hours tinkering with moving this or that slider up or down 1 notch, yet we all manage to have success in the game , go figure.

I agree.

I never get the gap message anyway and I hardly use the sliders let alone the individual sliders so although I can understand the topic-starter's point, I don't really care. I get awesome results with my very basic, almost nitwit tactics. I get the feeling sometimes some people just take their tactics too seriously.

I too use a 442 formation. Only difference is, instead of having a midfield like this: MR-MC-MC-ML my midfield looks like this: AMR-DM-DM-AML. works like a freaking charm for me. It has done with many different teams in the demo so far.

Set your centrebacks with individual sliders, and the rest on the team slider.

Set your centrebacks with individual sliders, and the rest on the team slider.

Almost what I do.

Centrebacks have a low individual position with one being slightly higher than the other, fullbacks and DM a little higher than that and one striker very high. The other 4 use the team slider all the time. If I need/want to be more offensive, I cancel the individual instructions for the fullbacks and/or DM, move some players further up the pitch (DM to MC or ML to AML) and/or add more forward runs (very easy now that the Farrows and Barrows are the forward runs slider, although I preferred the old arrows system). If I need/want to go more defensive I reduce forward runs, move players further back down the pitch and use a few other team sliders.

So I usually have between 4 and 7 players on the Team setting and the other 3 only ever need changing in extreme circumstances. I can see the use for a related slider, but I wouldn't say it is essential as the relative position on the pitch seems to have that effect anyway (DC even on full attack and high forward runs still isn't the guy trying to beat the offside trap).

I have a suggestion for this

they could make it like in training schedules when you move the main workload slider, the all other sliders move together. So if you feel you need more attacking/defensive mentality you could use the team mentality slider to move them all together. The team mentality slider is useless anyway. I asume that most of the people are using individual instructions. This could be also made for all other settings

I have a suggestion for this

they could make it like in training schedules when you move the main workload slider' date=' the all other sliders move together. So if you feel you need more attacking/defensive mentality you could use the team mentality slider to move them all together. The team mentality slider is useless anyway. I asume that most of the people are using individual instructions. This could be also made for all other settings[/quote']

I think that is an excellent idea. However, it can only work when mentalities are not too spaced out in the first place.

Relative mentalities ftw.

I think that is an excellent idea. However, it can only work when mentalities are not too spaced out in the first place.

I think there should be an option to "lock" the sliders in, therefore allowing free movement of the team mentality slider.

I have all players set to team mentality except CBs and possibly one of my CMs (usually my DMC set to defensive, plus rare forward runs). I'd hate for team mentality to override this.

I have all players set to team mentality except CBs and possibly one of my CMs (usually my DMC set to defensive, plus rare forward runs). I'd hate for team mentality to override this.

I'm the same. In 2008 I have all players bar Keeper and Centre Half's on Team Mentality with Individual Instructions such as HUB or FWR and RWB along with F/Barrows giving a dimension to their mentality. If I need a goal I just slide the Team Mentality/Defensive Line sliders up.

Can I assume I can still do that in 09?

Uuuuuuhhhhhh huuuuuuuuuuuuh (yep)

It takes a minute to change each individual slider to a new mentality, hardly reason for such a long post.

Just pause the game, change each slider, then unpause, doesn't take any time at all.

Look at it this way, Scolari can't yell at each player at the same time to change his mentality, he has to go individually, or maybe two guys at a time. Same thing here.

It takes a minute to change each individual slider to a new mentality, hardly reason for such a long post.

Just pause the game, change each slider, then unpause, doesn't take any time at all.

Look at it this way, Scolari can't yell at each player at the same time to change his mentality, he has to go individually, or maybe two guys at a time. Same thing here.

So immagine:

You have a match, then after 2 minutes it's 0:1. Damn, adjust all sliders (+ 1 minute).

After 19 Minutes you're player gets sent off. Damn, have to be a litte more cautios for now (+ 1 minute).

After 39 Minutes it's 1:1. Yeah, but now as I only have 10 players left and it's a draw, I'll go more defensive (+ 1 minute).

After 56 Minutes it's 1:2. Damn, again more offensive, but not all out attack (+ 1 Minute).

After 70 Minutes still 1:2. Damn, MORE offensive but not yet all out attack as I fear a counter-attack (+1 minute).

After 80 Minutes still 1:2, ok I go out Team Slider All Out Attack (therefore ovverides individual sliders).

So in a match with "only" three goals and one red card, you have to spend 5 Minutes for changing sliders !! That's ridiculous.

So with a +1/-1 thingy (with the ability to "lock" certain players) it would be 5 seconds each and therefore only 25 seconds.

Really don't need to spend more time on changing sliders than on playing the game actuall

Shouldn't be too hard to change even in a patch.

Ah and the same for closing down of course as you change it normally with the mentality sliders!

1. I don't want to change Formation. I just want to change Mentality, as the situation dictates.

2. It would take 10/15 of your "Formations" (and the time taken to set them up) for what I could do with ONE Formation with a Relative Slider. You're setting up all these "Formations" (that actually have nothing to do with Formations) just to deal with the fact the Team slider doesn't work anymore.

3. I'd need 5/10/15 "Formations" for each real formation I'd use. That's like 50/75/100 of your Formations. Pretty Ridiculous.

4. Why should anyone have to spend all the time and effort to set up the above just to make up for the lack of usability in the game?

5. The Team slider is only way too simplistic because it does not relate to the Individual sliders.

6. Because people are now having to use Individual Mentalities the Team one is now near redudant anyway, no matter what you do.

Um ...

Okay, I'll bite. I'm in the Individual Mentality group, and I do exactly what Galactus was suggesting, save off each "stance" within the same formation as its own save file. I have "Defensive", "Counter", "Standard", "Creative", and "Attacking" for each formation that I intend to use.

Why?

Because its not just about changing Mentality for individual players.

When I make those adjustments, I also adjust:

- Forward Runs

- Closing Down

- Defensive Line

- Corner Kick instructions

- Counter-Attack checkbox

- Offsides Trap

and often other items for individual positions (Passing instructions, Hold Up Ball, Run With Ball, Through Balls, etc.) I even change, depending on the situation, whether or not I try to use my Target Man or Playmaker as such.

Its not as simple as "Twig the Team Mentality setting back a couple notches, and defend better."

So, the "Relative Mentality" thing wouldn't save me any time in-match - I'd still wind up at something like +3 minutes (see Raniel's post, above) every time I wanted to change Team Mentality, because I'd have so many other things I'd need to change.

Versus - load from a saved tactical file, 5 seconds, and click Continue.

Amaroq, that's fine for you. I respect anyone who uses a more simpler approach such as they don't use Individual Mentalities much or a number of formations.

I have a number of formations I use, decided upon before the game based on who I've got playing, and who I'm playing and where, what result I'm playing for etc.

So I've got a 442 setup for 2 DMs. A 442 for a DM and AM. A flat 442. A 442 with free role Wingers. That's for starters.

On top of that I've got a 5-4-1 formation. Again with 2 or 3 variants.

But the key is the personnel decides which of those I can use after kickoff.

If I've gone 5-4-1 I can't just switch to 4-4-2 because I don't have the personnel for it. If I've got the 442 with 2 DM's I can't just go the 442 with a DM and AM. Because again, I don't have the personnel on the field (the AM).

So for me, and no doubt others, it's not as simple as "Attacking" "Defensive" "Standard" "Counter". It was, at about FM 2006. But I think the game often requires more now.

If I then did what you are both suggesting, and have mutliple mentalitities saved for each formation, instead of having 6/7 formations for my players I'd have like 30/50. This would be ridiculous for the players involved, and they would likely get penalised for playing in unfamiliar "formations".

For those saying it wouldn't save me any time, or that they want it as is even, that's fine. The solution is simple:

SI aren't giving US this option, when for many of us it's starting to become near essential.

I heard Tactics where supposed to be improved this year. They haven't moved on for half a dozen years. This is one of the things that's holding them back for many of us.

So in a match with "only" three goals and one red card, you have to spend 5 Minutes for changing sliders !! That's ridiculous.

So with a +1/-1 thingy (with the ability to "lock" certain players) it would be 5 seconds each and therefore only 25 seconds.

Really don't need to spend more time on changing sliders than on playing the game actuall

Shouldn't be too hard to change even in a patch.

Exactly Raniel that sums up the ridiculousness of the situation perfectly.

Look at it this way, Scolari can't yell at each player at the same time to change his mentality, he has to go individually, or maybe two guys at a time. Same thing here.

And I think you're totally off base here. You think Scolari tells goes around the pitch to each of his players (even if in two's) to tell them to push up more because we're a goal down? No chance.

He tells one or two of his players (or hand signals the team) and it filters through the rest of the team. He certainly doesn't leg it across the other side and far corner of the pitch to personally tell Ashley Cole "get up the field you numpty!". And then do this with every other player. (This is what anyone using multiple individual sliders is having to do though!)

The TEAM is told to push up.

The tactis have improved in the sense that your instructions are carried out better.

Juan Kassov

Artur Boruc can fly

I have a number of formations I use, decided upon before the game based on who I've got playing, and who I'm playing and where, what result I'm playing for etc.

So I've got a 442 setup for 2 DMs. A 442 for a DM and AM. A flat 442. A 442 with free role Wingers. That's for starters.

On top of that I've got a 5-4-1 formation. Again with 2 or 3 variants.

But the key is the personnel decides which of those I can use after kickoff.

If I've gone 5-4-1 I can't just switch to 4-4-2 because I don't have the personnel for it. If I've got the 442 with 2 DM's I can't just go the 442 with a DM and AM. Because again, I don't have the personnel on the field (the AM).

Ditto. I understand your concerns; I have the same situation. I have two 4-4-2's with quite different implementations. I have a 4-1-4-1. I have a 4-3-2-1. Each of these has those five variations, and I tend to stay within them. (Though, come to think of it, I'll often switch between the two 4-5-1's based on situation in a single match, or shift into/out of a 4-4-2 via substitution in the second half.)

If I then did what you are both suggesting, and have mutliple mentalitities saved for each formation, instead of having 6/7 formations for my players I'd have like 30/50. This would be ridiculous for the players involved, and they would likely get penalised for playing in unfamiliar "formations".

I have 20 saved tactics, and I don't feel like I get penalized for playing in unfamiliar formations.

I do notice a penalty if I ad-lib something in the middle of a match, e.g., a desperation shift from 4-5-1 to a 3-5-2 with two goals to chase in the final minutes.

I don't have an objection to the tick-box approach that you're asking for ..

... but there are a number of things I'd rather see:

1. The ability to save and load Opposition Instructions for different opposition formations, independent of my current tactic.

2. The ability to save and load Dead-Ball Instructions independent of my current tactic.

3. A more intuitive approach to saving and loading individual instructions for my own players in a way that blends nicely with my tactical suite .. without having to be PPM's.

I just don't think that "Relative Mentality" is the silver bullet you're hoping it will be.

I just use this view.

Maybe +/- buttons would be nice and the ability to Ctrl select multiple players o edit at once would be nice though.

Yes, relative mentality would be nice.

The old system of Individual Mentality overriding Team is just not good enough now it's so apparent how important the gap system is (just read what your Ass Man says about gaps).

Do SI seriously think people are going to adjust ELEVEN Individual Menatalities multiple times during the game?

Make them all relative and we only need to change ONE slider. The TEAM one.

ATM it's an unbelievable pain to change during the game to suit game situations (down 2 goals early, a goal up late, under heavy pressure, etc.).

At a time when the game is more and more demanding of time and effort it's just not good enough that the game is making things this hard and time consuming.

100% agree with you.

can we please also make it so that changing a tactic in mid game doesnt reset all your opposition instructions?

i dont have a photographic memory and going through all the opposing squads stats again is f*** tedious.

Agree 100%. This would be the good usability improvement. That or having OI remain in-place when changing tactics during a game (perhaps only if the basic formation remains the same i.e. replacing a 4-4-2 with another 4-4-2 but with different mentalities).

can we please also make it so that changing a tactic in mid game doesnt reset all your opposition instructions?

i dont have a photographic memory and going through all the opposing squads stats again is f*** tedious.

This is easily the most tedious part of playing FM. I'm staggered it hasn't been adjusted from 08.

I think this would be a fantastic addition - a real time-saver.

Very good idea, indeed! I am not much of tactical tweaker myself, mainly because of the fact that it " takes to long" for my personal liking.