Think about the kids and people with less time.

Ok ive fired the demo up and started playing the game and to no astonishment of mine, my tactics based around my 08 versions dont work. Im not gonna start a rant about how bad the game is or anything just to have people message me back and say "its your tactics other people are having success". Ive started to realise that everyone defends SI to the hills when it comes to the tactics part of the game, but i have noticed that with every new game the tactics engine isnt just tweaked but overhauled and the the old methods that worked seem to be coded out so to speak.

The good thing about the older versions of this game was that i could come home after work fire it up and just have fun playing it whilst being challenged a little bit, but these days your expected to put in more and more preperation which is really starting to take away from the enjoyment of it.

I have on average 6 hours a week to play the game and just dont have the time to be doing what i did when i was at university and i had weeks where i could sit down and go through stuff.

I recently let my girlfriends brother have a go on FM 08 and the poor kid was lost, i sat with him and went through the basics, when i returned 3 hours later he was 7 games without a win a or draw and was in the relegation zone with Arsenal. I give him credit cause the kid was not giving up but i remember picking up my first copy of the game years ago and altough i was no Pro at it, i was able to pick up a result here and there.

Im not saying the game should be made easier but there should be somethings in place to help the learning curve. Just because the people at SI THINK tactics should be done in a certain way does not mean they are infallible.

I felt that my tactics for 08 were perfect for my team and i was enjoying success, the work i put in seemed to have payed off without me using and cheat things such as the corner routine. So although the engine has changed i should not be doing so badly in the new game.

Ricard

Ok ive fired the demo up and started playing the game and to no astonishment of mine, my tactics based around my 08 versions dont work. Im not gonna start a rant about how bad the game is or anything just to have people message me back and say "its your tactics other people are having success". Ive started to realise that everyone defends SI to the hills when it comes to the tactics part of the game, but i have noticed that with every new game the tactics engine isnt just tweaked but overhauled and the the old methods that worked seem to be coded out so to speak.

The good thing about the older versions of this game was that i could come home after work fire it up and just have fun playing it whilst being challenged a little bit, but these days your expected to put in more and more preperation which is really starting to take away from the enjoyment of it.

I have on average 6 hours a week to play the game and just dont have the time to be doing what i did when i was at university and i had weeks where i could sit down and go through stuff.

I recently let my girlfriends brother have a go on FM 08 and the poor kid was lost, i sat with him and went through the basics, when i returned 3 hours later he was 7 games without a win a or draw and was in the relegation zone with Arsenal. I give him credit cause the kid was not giving up but i remember picking up my first copy of the game years ago and altough i was no Pro at it, i was able to pick up a result here and there.

Im not saying the game should be made easier but there should be somethings in place to help the learning curve. Just because the people at SI THINK tactics should be done in a certain way does not mean they are infallible.

I felt that my tactics for 08 were perfect for my team and i was enjoying success, the work i put in seemed to have payed off without me using and cheat things such as the corner routine. So although the engine has changed i should not be doing so badly in the new game.

Ricard

it might have somthing to do with how the arrows in 09 compared to 08

Ive started to realise that everyone defends SI to the hills when it comes to the tactics part of the game

You've clearly never been to the Tactics Forum . Theres many people unhappy with a lot of the tactics module, and although I'd like to think I'm pretty astute when it comes to developing tactics, theres also many things I find myself unhappy with.

I do agree, however, that if you don't have ample amounts of time to play this game, you cant get the full enjoyment out of it, because there is just so much detail involved now, that even if you have the Ass Man do everything and you just pick the team and buy the players, its still a lengthy chore.

Fortunately, I have plenty of time to enjoy my FM'ing

The default tactics that come with the game are being looked at which should hopefully make it easier for new users to understand the tactics system.

In the meantime, the experts over at the tactics forum are working on something to help us all out:

FM09 Community Guide to Tactics

it might have somthing to do with how the arrows in 09 compared to 08

Ive adjusted them according to the things SI and people on the boards are saying bud.

Again when people direct me to the tactics board, thanks for the heads up but its very difficult to sit on the boards and read everything these days, i just dont have the time to read through the 80% b.s to find the good information.

Perhaps an in-game tutorial of some sort would help? (Would need to be scripted ofc)

Or maybe a "Have Ass-Man set training" option, perhaps allow the Ass-Man to adjust tactics during the match (so long as the player can see and learn from what the ass-man is doing - however I've seen my Ass-Man make some scary choices when I've been banned from the dugout before ).

There are 2 sides to this both of which I can appreciate ... this is a game and therefore should be "easy to pick up and have some success" but it's also an indepth simulation and therefore should give no quarter to the player.

Ive adjusted them according to the things SI and people on the boards are saying bud.

Again when people direct me to the tactics board, thanks for the heads up but its very difficult to sit on the boards and read everything these days, i just dont have the time to read through the 80% b.s to find the good information.

umm.. not to sure then, ive had similar problems in the past so now just redo from scratch every year

There are 2 sides to this both of which I can appreciate ... this is a game and therefore should be "easy to pick up and have some success" but it's also an indepth simulation and therefore should give no quarter to the player.

I have to disagree on that mate, im not taking anything away from SI or the people who work on this game but it is not a simulation in any way shape or form, Its an in depth game certainly. I have managed a team in the past not only football but other sports too, obviously not at the top levels but i have worked with individulas and a team and have been through the processes of winning and losing both tactically and mentally and FM is nowhere neat that mark. Again i want to stress im not taking anthing away from the guys at SI because this is by far and away THE best football game around in regards of depth.

To take your main point, FM is a simulation of the real thing, it's designed for people with lots of time to play, and tbh I don't don't think it's a kids game, although that depends on your definition of kid.

That's one reason for the PSP etc. versions which are somewhat more pick up and play.

I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised that old tactics don't work in the new game, especially if they were using some bizarre formation with arrows all over the place. Don't forget that the full game comes with a manual.

not defending si- but my 08 tactics work perfect, im 5th with bolton (Y)

I felt that my tactics for 08 were perfect for my team and i was enjoying success, the work i put in seemed to have payed off without me using and cheat things such as the corner routine. So although the engine has changed i should not be doing so badly in the new game.

well the team you have on FM09 ain't the same

All I've ever done on any FM/CM is to setup the tactics the way I think football should be played + a little adjustment to what kind of players I have. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Mostly comes down to how my players react to my tactics.

What Iggy said really.

I think anyone buying a football management simulation has to realistically expect it to be time consuming. There are plenty of other games out there for those who find this hard or too realistic. Granted, the others are all terrible, but that's not SI's fault.

I've found FM09 demo to be easier to set up tactics. Once you've done a few basic ones you just need to tweak them mid-game to keep winning.

Some people don't like complete overhauls, some people demand them.

The majority of my FM08 tactics don't work, but some of them do. I guess whenever you get a new version you need to start slow, which I agree means less gameplay initially, but I think it'll be worth it by the time I patch up the full game.

I have personaly found the tactics in FM09 demo easier than FM08. In 08 i often found the weaker tems in the league would suddenly be able to batter my team for no other reason than putting 4 up front. In 09 this seems less effective for starters. I think once you work out how to close the gaps between your defence midfield and attack (using mentality slider rather than player positioning) It is a lot less difficult to turn a game round to get a win or draw.

I've heard many people have success with almost default tactics, you dont need to adjust every slider.

I don't really find it harder at all...how old is this kid you speak of?

There are some basic preset instructions already included in the demo

1) choose your formation

2) select your players & subs

3) setup your Team Instructions

4) Select each of your starting 11 and use the "Set to" option near the top right

they only need some minor tweaks, mostly Mentality/Creative Freedom, but they do allow you to get into the game fairly quickly.

I think there is a case for a 'quick set up' button where on match day, the team, formation and tactics are all set by your assistant manager with one press of the button and you can skip all the pre-match screens, so you can get straight into a match. That won't be much fun for many but if you're short on time it would help.

In terms of scouting, another time consuming activity, no changes are needed as this is now much better in FM09 as all your scouts seem to be pre-assigned and offering up players and your assistant manager makes recommendations from the off too.

The good thing about the older versions of this game was that i could come home after work fire it up and just have fun playing it whilst being challenged a little bit, but these days your expected to put in more and more preperation which is really starting to take away from the enjoyment of it.

Exactly. A game needs to be fun. 09 just isn't for me. It's more of a boring task having to do half of the options in it. I'll stick with 07.

This is a really tricky issue. I have liked all versions of the game, even when they have become increasingly complex and time consuming. SI need to make progress year on year and I feel that this automatically and unavoidably leads to more features, more in-depth action and consequently, more time needed to play the game.

I don't really have an answer for this but I do feel the issue is wider than just the tactics in the game. I have every sympathy with the OP- I remember fondly the days of firing-up and rattling thru' a season with good success. However, the game must move forward and maybe it is just one of those things that us 'vets' must come to terms with. There really is no way that SI can make the game less complicated now- some fans are already talking about the additional features they would like to see in FM2010! A sign of the times I feel.

It's your tactics mate

It's your tactics mate

No, I'm pretty sure it's his lack of patience.