Why is it not possible to add realistic sound for lower league football?

Attendance: 67

Sound: at least 5067

I don´t expect a sound file for every possible attendance, but at least 3 different kind:

Over 10'000 supporters - like it is now

about 500 or 1000 supporters

empty stadium up to 200 supporters.

Turn your speakers off, should sound about right.

Agreed. This would be nice.

Not that I play with sounds on, far too crappy quality

Turn your speakers off, should sound about right.

You obviously did not watch a lower league game for ages.

You obviously did not watch a lower league game for ages.

I really haven't. I don't play with sound on ever but I do remember when I used to, probably like CM days, there were sound pack addons for chants, crowds etc. Still possible for 09 to add some more or is it only generic and you can't set variables for crowd size?

The volume level of the crowd sound effects in FM09 is adjusted according to the attendance. In the earlier games the difference was not that big but it should be more noticable now.

Sorry to say, but it just doesn't work. The sound of the crowd is totally different when there are less people. If anything lowering the sound level just exaggerates the problem.

The quality of the sounds in FM has onyl ever been a small part of the problem - the main problem is the way they are stitched together.

I agree. I think a three tier system woudl be really good. It would also be nice if the stereo sound (or even surround sound was used to greater effect. A lot of stuff sounds a bit hollow at the moment as it only comes from one side.

Yes, the actual composition of the crowd sounds is a lot different when it is 50 fans making the noise compared to 15,000 fans. But implementing the change in the composition of the crowd noises rather than just adjusting the volume levels would require new sound effects for all the crowd noises currently in the game for each level of attendance range we'd want to model. And this year, it was simply not possible to overhaul the match sounds on such a large scale.

However, the match sounds are high on the list of things to re-evaluate and possibly overhaul now that the game has taken a step into the 3rd dimension, so feedback such as this is appreciated. Hopefully in the future we can add a more suitable range of sounds for the crowd levels of lower league football as well. Something like the three tier system suggested in the original post would probably be a good starting point.

(ten)

It isn't just numbers that affect the noise though anyway in real life - some clubs have large numbers of posh fans who don't make much noise, others have very noisy fans. Also the type of stadium has an effect - an open air bowl type stadium would cause the sound to be less than a much more tightly enclosed stadium, even if it is quite a lot smaller.

Is there sound in Vanilla demo? Because if there is, it isn't working for me! lol

Yes, the actual composition of the crowd sounds is a lot different when it is 50 fans making the noise compared to 15,000 fans. But implementing the change in the composition of the crowd noises rather than just adjusting the volume levels would require new sound effects for all the crowd noises currently in the game for each level of attendance range we'd want to model. And this year, it was simply not possible to overhaul the match sounds on such a large scale.

However, the match sounds are high on the list of things to re-evaluate and possibly overhaul now that the game has taken a step into the 3rd dimension, so feedback such as this is appreciated. Hopefully in the future we can add a more suitable range of sounds for the crowd levels of lower league football as well. Something like the three tier system suggested in the original post would probably be a good starting point.

Riz,

I fully understand the level of priorities you have set for this year, and I completely respect that. I do also believe that sound is becoming an aspect that has been in the backburner for a little too long. The level of immersion that sound can offer is probably one of the most under-appreciated parts of a video game.

Now, I do not know too much on the operational end of it, but I'd gather that the main thing to be done is to go to various games at various levels of attendance, and stick out a microphone to capture the sounds at the game.

On a related note, I'd also love to see the following (cross-posted from the wishlist thread):

- Crowd chanting, with difference chants based on the country you're at (French crowds sound different than English crowds, while Italian crowds sound different all together, etc.). Other country-based idiosyncratic sounds would be welcome as well. For instance, MLS fans tend to boo when they're not happy. In France or Italy, they whistle.

- A better reaction of the crowds based on events during the game. If the home team is losing badly, it would be great to hear the crowd boo/whistle. If the home team is winning, they'd be chanting. Also, more appropriate crowd sounds during a home team/away team goal, ref calling fouls that could result in a goal (dangerous FKs and PKs) and showing yellow/red cards, and player substitutions (a round of applause for a home team player that played well). Also, booing/whistling of a certain player whenever he touches the ball - an away player who used to play for the home team, or if he badly hurt a home player; or turning on a home player because he's not performing well. I'd gather that a bunch of IF conditions in the coding should do the trick.

Yes, the actual composition of the crowd sounds is a lot different when it is 50 fans making the noise compared to 15,000 fans. But implementing the change in the composition of the crowd noises rather than just adjusting the volume levels would require new sound effects for all the crowd noises currently in the game for each level of attendance range we'd want to model. And this year, it was simply not possible to overhaul the match sounds on such a large scale.

However, the match sounds are high on the list of things to re-evaluate and possibly overhaul now that the game has taken a step into the 3rd dimension, so feedback such as this is appreciated. Hopefully in the future we can add a more suitable range of sounds for the crowd levels of lower league football as well. Something like the three tier system suggested in the original post would probably be a good starting point.

Perhaps change your sound engineer?

Yes, the actual composition of the crowd sounds is a lot different when it is 50 fans making the noise compared to 15,000 fans. But implementing the change in the composition of the crowd noises rather than just adjusting the volume levels would require new sound effects for all the crowd noises currently in the game for each level of attendance range we'd want to model. And this year, it was simply not possible to overhaul the match sounds on such a large scale.

However, the match sounds are high on the list of things to re-evaluate and possibly overhaul now that the game has taken a step into the 3rd dimension, so feedback such as this is appreciated. Hopefully in the future we can add a more suitable range of sounds for the crowd levels of lower league football as well. Something like the three tier system suggested in the original post would probably be a good starting point.

Riz,

I fully understand the level of priorities you have set for this year, and I completely respect that. I do also believe that sound is becoming an aspect that has been in the backburner for a little too long. The level of immersion that sound can offer is probably one of the most under-appreciated parts of a video game.

Now, I do not know too much on the operational end of it, but I'd gather that the main thing to be done is to go to various games at various levels of attendance, and stick out a microphone to capture the sounds at the game.

On a related note, I'd also love to see the following (cross-posted from the wishlist thread):

- Crowd chanting, with difference chants based on the country you're at (French crowds sound different than English crowds, while Italian crowds sound different all together, etc.). Other country-based idiosyncratic sounds would be welcome as well. For instance, MLS fans tend to boo when they're not happy. In France or Italy, they whistle.

- A better reaction of the crowds based on events during the game. If the home team is losing badly, it would be great to hear the crowd boo/whistle. If the home team is winning, they'd be chanting. Also, more appropriate crowd sounds during a home team/away team goal, ref calling fouls that could result in a goal (dangerous FKs and PKs) and showing yellow/red cards, and player substitutions (a round of applause for a home team player that played well). Also, booing/whistling of a certain player whenever he touches the ball - an away player who used to play for the home team, or if he badly hurt a home player; or turning on a home player because he's not performing well. I'd gather that a bunch of IF conditions in the coding should do the trick.

Coudn't agree more. Some good suggestions. The sound definitely needs to be more realistic in terms of the country you are playing in.

Why don't you record some sounds at various grounds throughout the world (costly but hey i'm sure there are ways round this) and then convert them to mp3 to cut down the file size. Now, no human ear who is not familiar with sound recording or a producer will be able to realistically here a major difference in sound quality (unless it is very poor mp3 quality). I used to DJ with mp3 songs and no one had a clue. I also know a few top dj's who do the same and again no one notices the difference between audio and mp3.

I fully agree about the issue of sounds, I use a user-created one that's quite good, but I'm glad to hear SI are working on this.

I think there's a number of things to consider here:

Attendance:

Clearly, the crowd sound should be affected by the number of people in the ground. I would have a five tier system: Less than 1000; 1000-10,000; 10;000-19,000; 19,000-40,000; 40,000+. But not only should the volume be less for lower crowds, but the actual sound should be different. Hearing a crowd of 38,000 cheer a goal does not sound like a louder version of a crowd of 500 in a stadium that can hold 3,000 cheer a goal. Bear in mind that a crowd of such a small number will sound different - for example, you can almost hear the individual cheers, if you know what I mean.

Geography:

As another user touched on, the sounds are different per country. There's a very different sound when a crowd cheer a goal in the UK, to in Italy or Spain or Turkey. There's often a lot of whistling near the final minute from the home team if they're only a goal in front and the opposition are attacking. In Italy and, I think, Spain they whistle instead of booing. Booing is more pronnounced in America and to an extent in the UK. Chants are different, too, but I'll touch on that in a different paragraph.

Match events:

As well as the cheer when there's a goal, I'd like to hear the crowd shout in anticipation in the build up - in England that's caused by several thousand people shouting "go on" at the same time, I'm sure you all know the sound I mean. Ironic cheers are good - they're in the game already, but also whistling for the final whistle near the end of a tight game, booing hated opposition whenever they touch the ball, cheering completed passes when a team is dominating a game, and so on. Some of these are already in the game, but let's make them more pronnounced.

Chants

Obviously these will need to be country specific, but I wouldn't bother with player-specific chants, as they'll be obselete within a few years of game time. But you can capture the generic sounds of a chant; it'd be great to have some of the more unsavoury chants - "the referee's a w..." - but I'm sure you can't put them in the game without having a higher PEGI rating. Is it possible with an ARSE command though, or could it be controlled via parental control or something? Listen to the South American chants, African chants, UK chants, continental chants, they all sound very different and use different instruments and vocalisation. In some countries, for example, in big games the crowd often roar when their team are taking a corner, in the same manner that lower league teams in England sometimes do when the opposition goalkeeper is taking a goal kick. More of this in the game please.

You might wonder why any of this matters, and I'm sure there'll be the same unconstructive comments about how SI should fix the bugs before concentrating on stuff like this. However, I think this sort of thing is important, because it adds to the immersiveness of the game. That's why I play games, to become immersed and forget about real life for a couple of hours. That's why games like Far Cry 2 and GTA IV are so addictive for me - they're so immersive. I'd like FM to be the same.

It isn't just numbers that affect the noise though anyway in real life - some clubs have large numbers of posh fans who don't make much noise, [...].

You could have some matches played in total silence, but for the occasional clapping and someone shouting "hooray for that chap over there" and similar things

The only change I've noticed playing LLM is that when away from home and we score there is almost deafening silence, compared to when the home team scores.

Would be nice though if this were to be made more realistic.