Old Players Stats No Longer Terrible

Thats one thing i'm really pleased with! Have looked at over a dozen players over 34 yrs of age who still have really good technical and physical stats!

That was definitly something that needed improving and am glad it is fixed.

Rivaldo for instance still looks like an amaing player even though hes 36, even Ayala at 35! Much more realistic. Now I wont worry about signing over 30's, and it'll add a whole new dimension to my transfers.

Also, the game runs perfectly on both my laptop and PC, and I absolutely love the 3D! Have not had one thing so far to complain about with it!

Everyone else pleased with the over 30's stats?

I don't think its possible to really say for sure during 6 months of the demo. I would have to wait until season 2 to see if their attributes really drop off like they did in 08.

Wasn't the problem last year that old players' stats were good to start with but declined too quickly? I can't really judge if you're only able to play a couple of months in the demo.

While we're on the subject of stats, does anyone else think some players' stats haven't change correctly or at all from 08. I think Stevie Ireland should be much better than he is on the game.

While we're on the subject of stats, does anyone else think some players' stats haven't change correctly or at all from 08. I think Stevie Ireland should be much better than he is on the game.

If you you issues with players' stats you should report it in the Data Issues Forum

I disagree with not being able to tell within 6 months.

The idea that a 36 yr old can have physical stats all over 14 for instance would not have been even remotely possible in 08.

Perhaps they realised that 35 isn't really that old for a player. Perhaps you do lose some speed, but you can still have strength and stamina.

I disagree with not being able to tell within 6 months.

The idea that a 36 yr old can have physical stats all over 14 for instance would not have been even remotely possible in 08.

IIRC that was possible with the players over 35 (eg Thuram) when you started the game - it was just that when all players that were young at the start got to around 30 years old, their stats started to decline quickly. So all over 30s stats declined after a short while in FM08.

The idea that a 36 yr old can have physical stats all over 14 for instance would not have been even remotely possible in 08.

Do you realize that the player's stats at the beginning - which you are obviusly talking about - are set by the researchers?

That has nothing to do with the game modelling old player's stats. So for example, Del Piero was quite good at FM08 at the start (yeah not physically), after a year or two he was (not only physically but also technically) crap. The same for all other players above 31 years.

The only time you would so want to buy 33 year old players would be at the beginning of the game, as after two years they would be all very bad.

So that's what matters and about this SI haven't said almost nothing, which makes me think it hasn't been priority at all.

I don't think it's fair to make a call on this particular issue yet. As it was mentioned, 6 months is not enough of a time to fully test this out as you would need at least 1 full season with the player in question being involved. I would really hope that this has been fixed since it was a shame to have to sell your star player even though he has hit the age of 30 (in previous versions, ofcourse).

Usually didn't notice a huge drop in physical attributes in 08 until season 2. Many players physical attributes would drop but older players would drop far more and not rebound up like their younger counterparts. I truly hope it is fixed though, gets boring having such a young team all the time.

The problem wasn't that they had bad stats, the problem was theri stats dropped like flies. and you can't tell that afther 6 months.

It's too early to say is that bug fixed. We can see that after a year or two. I really hope that it's fixed and, on the other side, I hope they didn't turn that to opposite problem...so that players can play in their 35, 36, 37 like they have 25.

Stevie Ireland has been one of my unsung heros in my Man City game full of star signings accumalating £100m! Just scored a screamer in the 6th minute of inj time to make me beat West Ham!

The problem wasn't that they had bad stats, the problem was theri stats dropped like flies. and you can't tell that afther 6 months.

Yes, you can. CA's for over 30's dropped by 3-5 points over a 6 month period in FM08, they are not doing so in 09. Tested with FMRTE.

I've purchased Zlatko Yankov for my Farsley Celtic side. Weighing in at 42 years young! Does a job in the Conference North!

Yes, you can. CA's for over 30's dropped by 3-5 points over a 6 month period in FM08, they are not doing so in 09. Tested with FMRTE.

Are you sure? That would be amazing! Although it could be that they are dropping after a year, it would be at least a step forward.

Is the CA for these players in FM09 not at all dropping, or only a bit less?

Can you give examples? Like first-team oldies and backup-oldies. Those who don't play should get a higher drop in CA no? Like Cannavaro, Del Piero or Giggs, these were crap in FM 08 after a year and being transferlisted by their clubs

Take a look at Maldini.

The italian researcher was having a bad day i think.

this is good. i NEVER bought a player over 30 on FM08. 29 year olds were looked at with suspicion!

IMO it is annoying that you cannot buy a player who is >30 because his stats have been dropping or will start to drop in nearest future. Some of attributes shouldn't decrease so fast, e.g. concentration, teamwork, workrate, positioning etc. I understand when an older player looses his physical skills but mental characteristics ...? If it was improved for FM09 (I think we should wait till the end of the season to see if it's been "fixed") I would be so grateful

Yes, you can. CA's for over 30's dropped by 3-5 points over a 6 month period in FM08, they are not doing so in 09. Tested with FMRTE.

Can you tell me HOW you figured that out? AFAIK FMRTE does not yet display CA & PA, but only random values (like 23770 as CA)

My players reached their prime at the age of 31-32 and i generally got rid of them after thois point in FM08.....I hope that they begin to tail of at about 34 now...more realistic

This has definitely been an important improvement for the new game.

I have found out, that in December most of the 34+ players have lost one point in pace and one in accleration, also one at 3 or 4 other abilities (only players who don't play more than two or three games have had a more significant drop, like Inzaghi for Milan).

This seems not much, however I have no idea what this means for their CA. And I don't know how it was in FM 08 as I have uninstalled it.

Can someone who still has FM08 installed make a 6-months-holiday game and compare let's say 7 stats (including pace and acc) for the 33+ players at the beginning with those after 6 months?

This should give us an insight if there has really been a change to the system

I signed a 42 year old for Luton before, he had very good stats but was useless

This has definitely been an important improvement for the new game.

Sorry saw your post only after making mine.

Can you tell us WHAT EXACTLY has been changed? There hasn't been almost nothing said about it yet.

Have you increased the "CA-Drop-Age" of players (like from 32 in FM08 to 35 in FM 09)?

Or have you based this on individual players, meaning those with certain attributes (like Determination) will be able to become legends like Maldini or Cannavaro, which let's them have a high CA even with 35 years?

Would be nice to finally hear something specific about the changes

I hope that if players physical stats do drop, then their mental stats go up, so the CA is still balanced and it becomes more realistic.

They still decline to fast. In my Milan game - Seedorf, Nesta, Inzaghi and Maldini lost a lot of points in just 5 months.

SI need to raise players peak age to 32 - and not 30 as it is atm.

There is no simple figure in the game for "peak age". Well, there is a base figure but this is then modified invididually based on the attributes of the player, so some players will start to decline earlier and some later. Like was said earlier in the thread, this has been one of the areas of the player progression that has gone through a lot of testing, tuning and more testing to make it work more realistically.

But, Players like Inzaghi and Maldini who have played at the top level for years and have been very consistent, drop to half the player within 6 months.

So Maldini, who has been playing 24 odd years, suddenly within 6 months becomes useless. (even though he is useless at the start of FM09 anyway )

That does not make sense at all.

The only stats that should realistically drop are Physical stats. Mental stats should increase and Technical stats should stay about the same but decline over a longer period of time.

Until SI recognise this, +34 players will be useless after 6 months

Seedorf after 3 months : http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=seedorfbu6.jpg

The game already has separate "peak" ages for physical attributes and other attributes. The physical ones start to decline earlier and others later. One of the changes this year was to start the slow decline a bit earlier and the harder decline was then pushed to start later than before. Again these depend on the player attributes, so not everyone will decline the same way. In my humble opinion, I think you are over-generalizing a little bit when you are saying all +34 players in the game will be useless but if you do have a problem with a few specific players declining too fast to your liking in the demo, then I'm more than happy to have a look and see why this is. If you can provide your saved games at the start and at the end of the demo and point out which players have lost too much ability or attributes, even better

I am glad that this has been changed in FM09 and it is a noticeable improvement over FM08 without a doubt.

I do not have my saved games sadly, i am on my 4th save game now haha

As long as SI are aware and actively looking at enhancing the way players decline its fine by me

Seedorf after 3 months : http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=seedorfbu6.jpg

Can you get a Screen Shot of Maldini please? if its not too much trouble. Im only 2 weeks into my new Milan save.

There is no simple figure in the game for "peak age". Well, there is a base figure but this is then modified invididually based on the attributes of the player, so some players will start to decline earlier and some later. Like was said earlier in the thread, this has been one of the areas of the player progression that has gone through a lot of testing, tuning and more testing to make it work more realistically.

So regens(even with high nat fitness) will no longer become useless after 30? That was my concern, not the RL players that were already old.

Can you get a Screen Shot of Maldini please? if its not too much trouble. Im only 2 weeks into my new Milan save.

I dont use Maldini , only as sub late in games if need - since hes already useless in the beginning of the season:(

But he looks like this after 3 months ; http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uselessxu7.jpg

So wrong ..

Whoa, Maldini is pretty rubbish there!

This is a shame if always the case (i.e. great players we know to be still more than capable dropping stats far too quickly and dropping in areas they probably wouldnt i.e. first touch for quite a long time unless they were not training/playing).

Pleased to hear its been looked at and changed for 09, but would like to see some more examples from peoples games - any more out there?

I dont use Maldini , only as sub late in games if need - since hes already useless in the beginning of the season:(

But he looks like this after 3 months ; http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uselessxu7.jpg

So wrong ..

Thats embarrassing.

And also how on earth can Mental attributes go down at all? They should get better as they get older! Come on SI this is elementary stuff.

Although if Maldini was rated right from the start it wouldnt be a problem!!!

Yeah its embarrassing, but im looking forward to the real game, where we can edit players before we start.

i think a problem is (and might still be) that physical stats are too important in the match engine - so by correctly representing an older player losing a bit of pace, the game is crippling him more than a corresponding loss of pace in real life would

this would work for players who rely almost exclusively on their pace - i doubt david odonkor will be much cop when he reaches his thirties, because he has his speed and little else, and a slow walcott would be of no use whatsoever - but because pace is important for all players in the current match engine (a little bit too important) older players may still be penalised a bit too much. irl a lot of players will adapt their game as their pace fades (yorke an excellent example of this), and good players may drop down a division or two and find that their superior skills make up for their turtle pace, but fm struggles to replicate these two situations, although in fairness it's a difficult thing to get right

as long as fm09 doesn't have aging problems as bad as last year's version then i'll be happy

Yeah its embarrassing, but im looking forward to the real game, where we can edit players before we start.

I'm surprised that Maldini's influence has gone down on the image you uploaded?

I only downloaded the vanilla demo, have the Milan club records been filled in; i.e. biggest win, biggest defeat, oldest player etc?

Riz - in the example Maldini screenie posted, do you not think he's crippled? Not literally of course.

Mental attributes seem okay, physical ones completely borked (I dont expect a pace of 20, he never had that anyway) but technical attributes are extremely low too... Perhaps the number of games they've played in the top leagues should have an impact (i.e. Maldini would continue to perform well because he's playing in Serie A, whereas pop him into League 2 for a couple of seasons and his ratings will plummet).

This would then give us another way (one of the only?) to keep older players (esp Legends) competitive for a little longer. Milan are meant to be very good at extending the playing career of older players. Maybe a pensioners club doctor and facillities could be purchased in FM10?

I like to buying up legends in the game, mainly to teach younger players, but it'd be fantastic if we were able (with the right club, facillities and staff) to give talented older players another season or two in the game with special training routines and playing time. Rather like nurturing a wild flower... ahem.

Also - a little off topic....but how the bloody hell is Maldini not listed as a Legend for AC MILAN? ARE YOU KIDDING ME SI??

Maldini hasn't played much in that save game, only 3 friendly sub appearances. I'm sure that would make a difference as he's a)not had a decent preseason, b)probably annoyed he isn't in the first team.

Cheers Riz, will do.

I checked the screenshot against the attributes at the start of the game here, and the ones showing in the screenshot as declined (the red arrows down) had all only come down 1 point each. Everything else was just like it was at the start of the game. Especially the physical attributes seem to be in the screenshot pretty much the same as at the start of the game aside from the two changes. So if you have a problem with them being so low and making Maldini look crippled, then I would suggest posting it in the data forum.

That's right and that's what I've found out for every 32+ years player after 6 months. In average they seem to lose 1 point for almost each attribute, however it changes from player to player. Del Piero and Cannavaro as First Teamers have lost only 4 or 5 attributes stats at all, but some like Inzaghi went really downhill (3 points for every stat) and is being transferlisted. Maybe also because he isn't first teamer in FM and doesn't play at all. Maybe the effect of First Team football is too heavy, as Inzaghi and Del Piero had 2 seasons in their 30s where they were injured and didn't play at all. However after that they had a great comeback, in FM terms THEIR ATTRIBUTES RISED AGAIN after not playing for a year.

However this would not happen in FM. It's like "don't play a 34+ for half a season, and he's going to die".

If I'd return to the said numbers, that would mean a player like Del Piero in 2 years will AT LEAST have 20 attributes points less (don't know what it means for CA, but 20 CA is heavy). This does NOT correspondend to RL.

Immagine Cannavaro with the age of 32. In FM playing three years (he would be 35) and he would be crap. Immagine 30 or more attributes points lost, especially physical stats. However in RL with 35 years he is almost as good (and fast and whatever) as with 32 years.

In FM 09 he has 13 Pace. That means in FM Terms he would have been Walcott before because he would have had 3 years of strong physically decline. Otherwise he would not have still 13 pace, right?

So to sum up: Even with the current FM09 it seems to me that it will still be impossible to have 34 years old players who are still worldclass, have their "second spring" and do even rise in mental attributes without losing too much physically.

For that, I think the decrease in FM09 should be lowered even more, or there should be more variety, for example some players almost not declining at all until they have 34 years.

Mental attributes do grow in the game as players get older, but they simply cannot grow forever and ever. At some point when they are really past their peak, the older players will eventually start losing their ability and at that point some of the mental attributes will also start to decline.

Like I said, I don't think there is a general problem in this area for 30+ players but rather isolated players who people think should last longer. And like I said, I'm more than happy to have a look at Maldini for example and try and figure out if he is declining too fast to your taste despite his very high age already. It could be that with some tweaks to the way the player attributes affect the decline at an older age, Maldini could be made to last even longer.

I agree that at some point mental stats will start to decline. But stats like Influence never decline.

If you could have a look at Maldini i would be grateful, because a legend like him who has been one of the best in the world for 24 years becomes useless after 6 months. It just seams abit surreal.

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

Made a test and took an editor to compare CAs in July and in December of some players (most of Serie A as there are plenty old legends, was also playing with Serie A (I was unemployed however)

Name: JULY CA / DECEMBER CA

Del Piero (34 years old): 171 / 165

Cannavaro (35): 170 / 165

Materazzi (35?): 158 / 151

Di Natale (30): 169 / 169

Toni (31): 174 / 174

Nedved (36): 160 / 151

Corini (38): 129 / 116

Inzaghi (34): 154 / 140

Zambrotta (31?): 158 / 158

Maldini (40): 146 / 125

Nesta (31?): 173 / 171

Giggs (34): 155 / 150

v.d.Sar (38): 174 / 166

Scholes (33): 170 / 167

So you can see, there's still a huge CA drop for players over 34 years !!

I bet none of these 34+ players will be still first teamer after ONE season.

Take Maldini, after season one he should have a Ca of 104 !!

This should be the prove that SI again DID NOT FIX the Old Player Development part of the game !!

The CA drop is much too high for 34 years players with such a determination.

This again does mean, in FM09 there will be no valuable players over 34 years anymore, not to mention a possibility of an in-game-Maldini or even V.d. Sar, as every regen will massively decline at the age of 34/35 despite of his mental attributes.

I'm heavily disappointed as this is almost the same as in FM08. Maybe it has been slightly reduced, but you can't tell me that this does reflect RL.

I highly demand to further move the decline age forward / lower the decline rate, and to do so for patch 1 or 2 !