why cant we give si a break for a change

i look at some threads and all i see is people saying nasty things about fm09 or si why cant we just let them try and do there best to make the game better(i cant make games i dont know where to start so i play fm09)atleast they listen to us and try and fix the problems(some games dont even do that).does anyone else feel like this.lets say so far good job si.

Hear hear - If I could I would pad them all on the back and say "Good Work"

I think the main frustration for the people here is the disfigured match engine and what feels like a " step back",l can actually understand alot of the moaning as alot of suspense and built up was inevitably for a poor surprise, yet that being said if the match engine was fixed the game could be and should be the best yet

People pay £30 or 49.99 for a game that's not ready, riddle with bugs, poor jerky 3D performance and gimmicky, novelty features that can't be played till end of March when the bugs have been fixed.

So I'm not surprised by the backlash. It happens every year. it's like you buying a car and not being able to run it till it things have been fixed.

I'm not hating on SI just pointing out why people moan. I like the 3D feature but it doesn't look like its been develop for 3 years.

if people know whats the game gonna be like why buy or even moan about it.im not a 2d or 3d person i like commentary mode always have done.

i look at some threads and all i see is people saying nasty things about fm09 or si why cant we just let them try and do there best to make the game better(i cant make games i dont know where to start so i play fm09)atleast they listen to us and try and fix the problems(some games dont even do that).does anyone else feel like this.lets say so far good job si.

Agreed. Can't believe it hasn't stopped yet. I bet there's over 50 threads pointing out the same bloody problems, and SI has said that there will be a release-day patch, and people still create threads whining about the same stuff SI has said that they're working on. Patience doesn't exist in 70% of the people on this forum.

i look at some threads and all i see is people saying nasty things about fm09 or si why cant we just let them try and do there best to make the game better(i cant make games i dont know where to start so i play fm09)atleast they listen to us and try and fix the problems(some games dont even do that).does anyone else feel like this.lets say so far good job si.

In some ways I agree, but at the same time the forums are here for the benefit of people who dislike the game and want to voice their opinion as well as the people who like the game.

The problem I have with the forums is the lack of Mod power and the amount of duplicate threads. I dislike the FM09 as much as a lot of the people on here, but I don't feel the need to shout it from the roof tops and force my pennies worth down peoples throats as if I am the FM oracle.

In other words, people are entitled to vent their frustration and say what they actually think, it's the way they go about it that is harming the forums. Mods should be ruling with an iron fist and closing every pointless thread and pointing the people who create them in the right direction.

I'm not being overly critical of them just yet. If they manage to fix a good amount of problems with a patch on the 14th then I'll be happy enough and give them plenty of praise

I've enjoyed the game so far. My only major issue was with injuries but there was a primitive editor released that dealt with that. After that I found it quite playable and although there are still a few smaller issues for me, like keepers not diving for penalties, they aren't bothering me that much. Even the injuries seemed to go away a month or so into the season.

Tbh I don't buy the car analogy because it's less that the car doesn't run and closer to still getting you there, except your electric windows, air conditioning and stereo don't work.

I wouldn't be surprised that the criticism hasn't blown over yet since so many people were incredibly hung up on the 3D and now can't run it, plus there's the usual assortment of bugs. Last year there was weeks of threads complaining about the problems with the game and that was just for run of the mill issues that SI fixed with the patches.

People pay £30 or 49.99 for a game that's not ready, riddle with bugs, poor jerky 3D performance and gimmicky, novelty features that can't be played till end of March when the bugs have been fixed.

So I'm not surprised by the backlash. It happens every year. it's like you buying a car and not being able to run it till it things have been fixed.

I'm not hating on SI just pointing out why people moan. I like the 3D feature but it doesn't look like its been develop for 3 years.

True, they probably should have spent longer on it, but then if they had pushed the release date back to next year there would still be hundreds of people on here complaining that they cannot play till next year. I mean, there were so many threads on these boards questioning when the demo was out it was unreal. And now you've got the game and its not completely bug free and all you do is complain. They had to get a balance.

FM do not have a huge team of developers and there are no games that are ever released completely bug free. As a programmer myself I know how hard it is to make a game such as FM. AI programming is one of the hardest things to do and making a match engine work is incredibly difficult. They will get the problems ironed out, and FM 2010 will be fantastic. If you don't like this one, then just don't buy it, or wait till the January patch comes out with the transfer updates and possibly the last fixes and get it then.

Miles's Hertfordshire mansion and 17 Aston Martins are paid for by us! That's why!

The bloody car analogy has been done to death already! It is in no way like buying a car in that...

1. A car costs an average of, say £7000, FM costs an average of, say £26.

2.Cars do have problems-my new one had a faulty airbag. An airbag is a necessity...it was fixed. Having less injuries which atm is totally subjective is not a necessity...still SI are looking into it.

3.Unless you are one of the unlucky few who are having probelms with minimum spec GFX cards (which, fair enough, is a problem and is being looked into) IT DOES RUN so how is it like a car not being able to run?

4. There is very little subjectivity in driving a car. Basically it needs to run and be safe...end of. With games there is loads. So again not like a car.

So there we are, can we stop with the car analogies.

Also this thread was made to praise SI and FM, not moan..there are about a million of those already.

So again, well done SI for this and all the games you have made!

I'm not hating on SI just pointing out why people moan. I like the 3D feature but it doesn't look like its been develop for 3 years.

Three years? I'm certain its only 1 year.

And its very decent. Obviously, if its running properly on your machine I can understand the frustrations. Works perfectly well on mine, and if you watch games on 2D classic and 3D you'll notice that the 3D is a great representation of the match action.

I think the animations will probably improve with each incarnation.

Three years? I'm certain its only 1 year.

And its very decent. Obviously, if its running properly on your machine I can understand the frustrations. Works perfectly well on mine, and if you watch games on 2D classic and 3D you'll notice that the 3D is a great representation of the match action.

I think the animations will probably improve with each incarnation.

They've been developing the 3D match engine for about three years.

They've been looking into it for 3 years, and the match engine is a year old.

If I've mis-heard this, then happy to hold my hands up. Although we could be splitting hairs over what 'development' actually constitutes.

They've been looking into it for 3 years, and the match engine is a year old.

If I've mis-heard this, then happy to hold my hands up. Although we could be splitting hairs over what 'development' actually constitutes.

I think that's exactly what we're doing. It depends when you consider to have been the start point of development. I'll defer to you on the matter, though.

i think if you paid good money for a game every year, and it needed a large patch every few months, you would be peeved!

Its possibly one of very few industrys were you can sell an unfinished product at full price, and SI are probably the best at doing so in the software industry, so giv'em a pat on the backs

People come to this forum for the most part to either complain, to ask questions about an aspect of the game that puzzles them (good luck to anyone trying to get attention for such a thread at the moment!) or to point out some quirky features or just generally comment on their current game - it's the way it is. Those who come to complain are usually in a bad mood because of what it is they want to complain about and thus often can't be bothered to check if a thread already exists about their point and they want to have their own thread.

People who are happy with the game don't generally come along here in their droves and start new threads willy-nilly just to say so. It doesn't mean that more people don't like the game than do, it's just the natural way of things.

People write/e-mail Network Rail (or whoever runs transport systems in other countries) to complain in their droves when there are delays etc, but few people would bother to write or e-mail just to say that they had a great journey on a comfortable train that ran on time and had friendly service, etc, etc.

Factor in the age group of people who play FM and you are talking a large proportion of relatively young adults/teenagers/kids - some are articulate and intelligent, others tend to dive in feet first and get over excited about something.

I'm sure whilst they'd appreciate hearing that people enjoy the game SI would get as tee'd off as I would if we suddenly started getting 50 threads per day on the forums containing nothing more than the original poster saying they like the game!

i think if you paid good money for a game every year, and it needed a large patch every few months, you would be peeved!

Yeah it's irritating, but is downloading a patch really such a big deal? I've tried to return PC games before and always get told "you're supposed to patch PC games", so it appears to be the norm and not something we can bemoan SI for.

People come to this forum for the most part to either complain, to ask questions about an aspect of the game that puzzles them (good luck to anyone trying to get attention for such a thread at the moment!) or to point out some quirky features or just generally comment on their current game - it's the way it is. Those who come to complain are usually in a bad mood because of what it is they want to complain about and thus often can't be bothered to check if a thread already exists about their point and they want to have their own thread.

People who are happy with the game don't generally come along here in their droves and start new threads willy-nilly just to say so. It doesn't mean that more people don't like the game than do, it's just the natural way of things.

People write/e-mail Network Rail (or whoever runs transport systems in other countries) to complain in their droves when there are delays etc, but few people would bother to write or e-mail just to say that they had a great journey on a comfortable train that ran on time and had friendly service, etc, etc.

Factor in the age group of people who play FM and you are talking a large proportion of relatively young adults/teenagers/kids - some are articulate and intelligent, others tend to dive in feet first and get over excited about something.

I'm sure whilst they'd appreciate hearing that people enjoy the game SI would get as tee'd off as I would if we suddenly started getting 50 threads per day on the forums containing nothing more than the original poster saying they like the game!

i would like to hear good and bad things if i was si but to hear people saying worst fm ever i will not buy the game and saying fm going down hill going backwards is a little bit to far

Slalom, good point made. I know its no excuse - but you find with games, more so than never, they need patching up. Even the very decent ones need patching. I think its far more evident in something like FM because of the type of game it is (its a bit tricky comparing it to a 3rd person shooter for example).

Every incarnation has had bugs which have then been ironed out. Every incarnation has split the people who buy and want to buy the game into different camps of opinions. Probably because some people are anal with detail and cant play the game because of data error in the Bulgarian 3rd division and others are ok to ignore the same problem.

Bit selfish this next bit, but because SI have a history of fixing everything (almost everything ) I have no doubt the injury issue will be resolved, and anything else they feel is an issue will also be fixed. And as I love the 3D, I think the game is pretty damn superb.

Its not perfect. And prefer to accept how things are instead of questioning the inner-workings of how SI operate.

but to hear people saying worst fm ever i will not buy the game and saying fm going down hill going backwards is a little bit to far

That's your opinion, and just as you're entitled to yours eveyone else in entitled to theirs. Whether you think it's too far or not, means nothing to most people, just as their opinion means nothing to you.

Difference of opinion helps fuel debate, which is what the forums should be about. While I agree that there are too many moaning threads, i'd hate a forum full of threads about how good people think the game is, both type of thread would annoy me equally and neither should be viewed as more rlevant than the other.

People come to this forum for the most part to either complain, to ask questions about an aspect of the game that puzzles them (good luck to anyone trying to get attention for such a thread at the moment!) or to point out some quirky features or just generally comment on their current game - it's the way it is. Those who come to complain are usually in a bad mood because of what it is they want to complain about and thus often can't be bothered to check if a thread already exists about their point and they want to have their own thread.

People who are happy with the game don't generally come along here in their droves and start new threads willy-nilly just to say so. It doesn't mean that more people don't like the game than do, it's just the natural way of things.

People write/e-mail Network Rail (or whoever runs transport systems in other countries) to complain in their droves when there are delays etc, but few people would bother to write or e-mail just to say that they had a great journey on a comfortable train that ran on time and had friendly service, etc, etc.

Factor in the age group of people who play FM and you are talking a large proportion of relatively young adults/teenagers/kids - some are articulate and intelligent, others tend to dive in feet first and get over excited about something.

I'm sure whilst they'd appreciate hearing that people enjoy the game SI would get as tee'd off as I would if we suddenly started getting 50 threads per day on the forums containing nothing more than the original poster saying they like the game!

That's your opinion, and just as you're entitled to yours eveyone else in entitled to theirs. Whether you think it's too far or not, means nothing to most people, just as their opinion means nothing to you.

Difference of opinion helps fuel debate, which is what the forums should be about. While I agree that there are too many moaning threads, i'd hate a forum full of threads about how good people think the game is, both type of thread would annoy me equally and neither should be viewed as more rlevant than the other.

im not saying the games perfect its not i wish there was somethings that should be in it ands its not probs you think the same.i like reading what people think and whats wrong with the game makes me look more at things when i play.i would hate a i love or hate the game forum its just you read the same thing why not wait till the patch and if theres still a problem then moan abit more

i look at some threads and all i see is people saying nasty things about fm09 or si why cant we just let them try and do there best to make the game better(i cant make games i dont know where to start so i play fm09)atleast they listen to us and try and fix the problems(some games dont even do that).does anyone else feel like this.lets say so far good job si.

where is 'bell' when you need him?

Slalom, good point made. I know its no excuse - but you find with games, more so than never, they need patching up. Even the very decent ones need patching. I think its far more evident in something like FM because of the type of game it is (its a bit tricky comparing it to a 3rd person shooter for example).

Every incarnation has had bugs which have then been ironed out. Every incarnation has split the people who buy and want to buy the game into different camps of opinions. Probably because some people are anal with detail and cant play the game because of data error in the Bulgarian 3rd division and others are ok to ignore the same problem.

Bit selfish this next bit, but because SI have a history of fixing everything (almost everything ) I have no doubt the injury issue will be resolved, and anything else they feel is an issue will also be fixed. And as I love the 3D, I think the game is pretty damn superb.

Its not perfect. And prefer to accept how things are instead of questioning the inner-workings of how SI operate.

I agree with most of what you say, but I have played many games where patches are made but i have been so happy with game, that the issues that the patch addressed were no problem for me, however i have yet to come across any company in software that year in year out, sells such sub standard product as SI.

im not saying the games perfect its not i wish there was somethings that should be in it ands its not probs you think the same.i like reading what people think and whats wrong with the game makes me look more at things when i play.i would hate a i love or hate the game forum its just you read the same thing why not wait till the patch and if theres still a problem then moan abit more

I'm not saying I agree with the fact that there are loads of totally un constructive threads just complaining and making pointless comments, I'm just saying it is the natural way of things - when people don't like a game they moan, sometimes constructively, sometimes not. When they do like a game they generally just get on and play it and maybe come here, as I said, to start a more quirky thread about some aspect of their game - those are threads that are implicitely saying to SI "This is a great game" or whatever, they just do it by way of talking about an aspect of the game whereas unfortunately threads by some people who don't like the game say just that and nothing at all worth reading. That said, there are also plenty of threads that give a properly articulated viewpoint on things that are wrong with the game.

I agree with most of what you say, but I have played many games where patches are made but i have been so happy with game, that the issues that the patch addressed were no problem for me, however i have yet to come across any company in software that year in year out, sells such sub standard product as SI.

It's "sub standard" because people's standards are extremely high and the game is overwhelmingly complicated. I have played plenty of other modern games in different genres that are less complicated or that I don't understand well enough to know if there are glaring bugs (e.g. when I play a cricket game, I understand the basics of cricket, but I don't have anything like as indepth an understanding of the game as I do of football so I just wouldn't notice some aspects that are unrealistic.

People make a choice to buy a game. Anyone who buys a game expecting it to be perfect really needs to get a better understanding of how complex software is (talking in general there, not referring to you slalom). As far as I'm concerned, unless the game blatantly doesn't do what it claims to on the box then I made a choice to buy it and have to accept the game for what it is.

I used to love playing Railroad Tycoon II (still do), but I bought Railroad Tycoon III and have never played it for more than 10 minutes because I find it appalling - that doesn't mean the game is appalling, just that it has moved so totally in a direction that I don't like that I don't wish to play it. The same is sometimes true, to a lesser extent, of FM.

Slalom, I dont get how it can be sub-standard. And this is where I'm happy to have my opinion and you have yours. Because everyone is different and everyone has their own gaming quirks and acceptance levels.

I've played the demo (so much easier to do so first and avoid these forums which can sometimes influence you in a negative way). I then read through everyone's complaints and tbh, the injury issue is the only thing that jumps out and slaps me in the face, but thanks to some in-game work (with coaches, training, etc) I've managed to make things a lot more realistic even if other clubs are half-decimated.

We could sit here and discuss how this wasn't picked up in testing till we are blue in the face and we could discuss the virtue of beta-testing and 100 other things, but I'll rather focus on the fact that on the day of release, it will be patched and sorted out.

I've come across no other show-stoppers. Others would till you there are MAJOR problems with the game - but I find that some peoples expectations are impossible (i.e. transfer system - can we all just accept this will never be 100% realistic - but its damn good for a computer game).

Anyway, avoiding getting side-tracked, my point is - the game is pretty well polished. I just don't get the 'disaster' tags it gets labelled with by others. And I believe its to do with people's expectations.

In another thread someone just said they preferred FM when it was more simple and not so in-depth. I pointed out that if they kept it on the same level for years people would complain about the game never progressing. See how difficult it is to please everyone? Its nigh impossible to do so.

demo should have been out earlier allowing stuff to be fixed BEFORE it goes gold

IMO

It's "sub standard" because people's standards are extremely high and the game is overwhelmingly complicated. I have played plenty of other modern games in different genres that are less complicated or that I don't understand well enough to know if there are glaring bugs (e.g. when I play a cricket game, I understand the basics of cricket, but I don't have anything like as indepth an understanding of the game as I do of football so I just wouldn't notice some aspects that are unrealistic.

People make a choice to buy a game. Anyone who buys a game expecting it to be perfect really needs to get a better understanding of how complex software is (talking in general there, not referring to you slalom). As far as I'm concerned, unless the game blatantly doesn't do what it claims to on the box then I made a choice to buy it and have to accept the game for what it is.

I used to love playing Railroad Tycoon II (still do), but I bought Railroad Tycoon III and have never played it for more than 10 minutes because I find it appalling - that doesn't mean the game is appalling, just that it has moved so totally in a direction that I don't like that I don't wish to play it. The same is sometimes true, to a lesser extent, of FM.

good point indeed i have played loads of games where the first one is fantastic then the second was not and went back to playing the first

This thread is hardly worth arguing about.

If you have a problem with the game at this stage, then use the forum to let the developers know what you have discovered. Then they can put it right.

As long as they know about a problem, they will try their best to tackle it.

Moaning about stuff is pretty pointless, especially if you're just repeating things already mentioned alsewhere (probably much like this post).

demo should have been out earlier allowing stuff to be fixed BEFORE it goes gold

IMO

Releasing the demo means it has gone gold, there's a fair chance the major problems the demo has shown up will be fixed before anybody actually buys the game.

So what you suggest has actually happened.

But.... didnt they release a demo a while back for another game that was a beta demo?

Hey I dont have the answers and to be honest, i'm not going to have a moan

Its clear though bugs are happening and with a greater audience before it goes gold next time, maybe there wont be as much moaning come release date?

But.... didnt they release a demo a while back for another game that was a beta demo?

Hey I dont have the answers and to be honest, i'm not going to have a moan

Its clear though bugs are happening and with a greater audience before it goes gold next time, maybe there wont be as much moaning come release date?

Ha, I wouldn't bank on it.

There was a beta test a while ago, but it all went a bit wrong and some eejits released code etc, so beta demos are a no no.

Ha, I wouldn't bank on it.

There was a beta test a while ago, but it all went a bit wrong and some eejits released code etc, so beta demos are a no no.

ah right

ta fella

There's always a full testing cycle for any software, but some bugs will always slip through the net. More people testing (i.e. releasing a beta demo) doesn't necessarily mean bugs will be found better, some will, but also a whole load of non-issues will also clutter things up so that working out which are the actual bugs and which are just non-issues takes a lot longer than dedicated testers who know what they are looking for.

Why the outrage, before anyone has even paid any money though? Once the game is out and patched (immediately), if there are still major issues, then fine, but noone really has the right to feel hard done by yet, tbh.

Some people manage to feel hard done by when they get things totally for free!

More people testing (i.e. releasing a beta demo) doesn't necessarily mean bugs will be found better, some will, but also a whole load of non-issues will also clutter things up so that working out which are the actual bugs and which are just non-issues takes a lot longer than dedicated testers who know what they are looking for.

Great point, if i'd been a tester I would have been going mad about all the long shots i'm seeing in the demo, but so far no-one else seems to have experienced this and it must be my own fault.

Why the outrage, before anyone has even paid any money though? Once the game is out and patched (immediately), if there are still major issues, then fine, but noone really has the right to feel hard done by yet, tbh.

Have you been living in a cave for the past 20 years? You're talking about a generation that thinks the world owes them something, a generation of moaners.

Too much money and time spent on the DRM and piracy prevention than actually testing the game. Surely to god the testers would have noticed the match fitness dropping so quickly.

Also, the demo is released for people to make judgement on whether to buy the game or not. But for most people the greatest value is in long term lower league games where you need youth players and new players etc, so we cant test them, and if its like FM08 from last year its where it fell down with poor new youth players, its hard to release a demonstrtion on if this has been fixed, we just have to trust SI when they say its been sorted

Too much money and time spent on the DRM and piracy prevention than actually testing the game.

How do you know that?

Have you been living in a cave for the past 20 years? You're talking about a generation that thinks the world owes them something, a generation of moaners.

I like to think of myself as a passive crusader for change...

Have you been living in a cave for the past 20 years? You're talking about a generation that thinks the world owes them something, a generation of moaners.

Nomis07 owes me a new laptop to play FM09 on...for no other reason than he is a Manchester United and Bayern Munich sympathiser. I'm sure you'd have been regarded as a male witch back in the day...

Nomis07 owes me a new laptop to play FM09 on...for no other reason than he is a Manchester United and Bayern Munich sympathiser. I'm sure you'd have been regarded as a male witch back in the day...

I like you too much to inflict FM09 (in it's current state) on you

Funny you should say male witch, I was told off by my daughter for saying wizard instead of boy witch :confused: I always thought wizards were the male versions of witches.

I like you too much to inflict FM09 (in it's current state) on you

Funny you should say male witch, I was told off by my daughter for saying wizard instead of boy witch :confused: I always thought wizards were the male versions of witches.

'Wizard' doesn't carry the negative connotion of 'witch'. A witch uses her powers for evil. Wizards tend to be kindly old souls. 'Male witch' is more appropriate in this context.

And how off topic is this?!

I always consider wizards as wise like Gandalf, whereas witches were persecuted and looked upon with much more suspicion

'Wizard' doesn't carry the negative connotion of 'witch'. A witch uses her powers for evil. Wizards tend to be kindly old souls. 'Male witch' is more appropriate in this context.

And how off topic is this?!

Right! That's it - two threads in a row! I'm taking my bat and ball and going home in a sulk now (otherwise known as going for lunch, but still, I'll do it in a storming outy kind of fashion )

I always consider wizards as wise like Gandalf, whereas witches were persecuted and looked upon with much more suspicion

Does that make Saruman a male witch then? Or was he just a naughty wizard?

Plus, I thought those girls in Charmed were witches and they don't use their powers for evil, so what are they called :confused: