Farewell FM

After playing the FM 09 Demo I can safely say my Football Manager games are over. I am not actually slagging the game as I feel it is potentially the best in the FM series its just now way to in depth, which is fun for some people but there are probably others like me with a wife and kid who just want to turn the PC on after work and have an hour and get through a few games like we could in versions like CM 01/02. The biggest problem for me again is the tactics and the sliders. Again as with 08 and versions before what the hell does each setting on the slider achieve and why is there so many options, surely Wenger doesnt tell Fabregas to go out and play short passing at 4 on a scale of 1 to 20. And the Ass Man feedback while it is a good feature, there is way to much stuff being pointed out if you were to listen to him all game it would take you all night to finish a match. Why arent SI listening to the fans on here, I mean some games would love to have a community like this with so many suggestions and ideas, but we seem to be unheard, personally I would much rather of scrapped the 3d engine and concentrated on more important issues.

Last year I purchased CM 08 and even though it wasnt great it was easy to pick up and play and quick to play through a season and with CM 09 released next year I think I will wait and see what their demo brings this year.

Like I said this is not a slagging of of the game or SI just my annoyance with some issues that I think could of made this game great.

Wow, what an interesting read. Not seen the EXACT SAME thing posted here before. Next?

sorry but i think you're totally wrong.

FM08 was way too difficult for me but i think they have dumbed it down slightly this version and made it an easier game. for example they have merged forward runs and forward arrows, the ass manager tells you what's happening on the pitch. i also think complex things such as half time, full time team talks have lost some of their ridiculous influence.

stick with it. i find this one a lot more easier. i've won all of my games (7) with arsenal without conceding and i've not even listened to the ass man.

And thats another thing I wont miss about playing the game, stupid annoying sarcastic morons like you. If you dont like what I said ignore it

And thats another thing I wont miss about playing the game, stupid annoying sarcastic morons like you. If you dont like what I said ignore it

Now now. No need to get personal is there? Tbf, I have read the same whinging on these forums quite a lot recently. There's a feedback thread for the demo. Why didn't you use that instead? Or is this a cry for attention?

Threads like this really aren't helpful to improve the game. Its just a whining thread and would've been apt to have been placed into one of the 100 other threads available. I understand your frustrations, but creating a whole new thread titled "Farewell FM" isn't going to help anyone.

Just forget the whole thing. I really can not be arsed with this anymore. Thanks DP for the normal reply at least someone can post something normal. Why dont you other 2 pipe up in all the other threads moaning about a 3d engine or an Injury Bug.

Now now. No need to get personal is there? Tbf, I have read the same whinging on these forums quite a lot recently. There's a feedback thread for the demo. Why didn't you use that instead? Or is this a cry for attention?

I second this. I'm sick of logging on to read 87 new topics every day from people about their own feelings etc. I really hope to find constructive ideas and criticism but it can be like looking for a needle in the proverbial haystack. Fine, you don't like the game and are giving up- please please post it in an existing topic thread and then I can choose to ignore the moaning, complaining, whining, etc. Use the search function, find a suitable thread (there are plenty) and post to your heart's content...

Now now. No need to get personal is there? Tbf, I have read the same whinging on these forums quite a lot recently. There's a feedback thread for the demo. Why didn't you use that instead? Or is this a cry for attention?

Are you a mod ?

No, did'nt think so !!

It was not a whinge, it was a fair point, well made.

You come across as proper sarcastic d**khead mate.

i am looking forward to FM09, woohoo can't wait, 3D and all.

Just forget the whole thing. I really can not be arsed with this anymore. Thanks DP for the normal reply at least someone can post something normal. Why dont you other 2 pipe up in all the other threads moaning about a 3d engine or an Injury Bug.

Because there is constructive criticism in those threads. Yours is just a whinge. You come across as whining in your post, which is why you were met with the response you received. Hope that helps.

There's nothing in the demo they can't fix!

I second this. I'm sick of logging on to read 87 new topics every day from people about their own feelings etc. I really hope to find constructive ideas and criticism but it can be like looking for a needle in the proverbial haystack. Fine, you don't like the game and are giving up- please please post it in an existing topic thread and then I can choose to ignore the moaning, complaining, whining, etc. Use the search function, find a suitable thread (there are plenty) and post to your heart's content...

I actually have made a constructive criticism one I have made for the past 2 years about the sliders in the Tactics not making any sense and giving us the player any feedback as to what each click does.

Because there is constructive criticism in those threads. Yours is just a whinge. You come across as whining in your post, which is why you were met with the response you received. Hope that helps.

Anything constructive in any of your posts ??

I'll answer for you...

NO !!

I actually have made a constructive criticism one I have made for the past 2 years about the sliders in the Tactics not making any sense and giving us the player any feedback as to what each click does.

This is a good point, well made. I don't take issue with this. What I really take issue with is starting a whole new thread. There really is no need, people become annoyed and ignore your good points- post it in the right place and people will take notice.

Are you a mod ?

No, did'nt think so !!

It was not a whinge, it was a fair point, well made.

You come across as proper sarcastic d**khead mate.

It was just a whinge, there was no constructive points in the thread. And it doesn't take a mod to point users in the right direction. I was sarcastic in my first post, sure, but I haven't been abusive or resorted to name calling, yet I've been called a d**khead and a moron. Perhaps you two need to rethink your posting styles? Just because you're hiding behind the Internet, there's no need to be abusive really. This thread will be locked soon, though, and just add to all the other clutter on these forums.

Constructive criticism of FM09 demo is a good thing - and the more intelligent posts, even when negative, are interesting and helpful. This does not fall into that category, and I was entitled to point that out.

A valid point Dingle, everyone is entitled to their opinion and i understand your views. Too many fools with ego's on here, ignore them.

I actually have made a constructive criticism one I have made for the past 2 years about the sliders in the Tactics not making any sense and giving us the player any feedback as to what each click does.

Which is why I was surprised at your thread. You actually have intelligence and you can post constructively. This thread was just a bit of a whine.

I think it's a bit unfair to say that SI don't listen to us. Last year a lot of people posted saying they wanted 3D, we've now got it. People wanted to play the game without the disc, we've now got that. People wanted more interaction (media, players etc.), we've now got it. People wanted assistant manager feedback, we've now got it.

It was just a whinge, there was no constructive points in the thread. And it doesn't take a mod to point users in the right direction. I was sarcastic in my first post, sure, but I haven't been abusive or resorted to name calling, yet I've been called a d**khead and a moron. Perhaps you two need to rethink your posting styles? Just because you're hiding behind the Internet, there's no need to be abusive really. This thread will be locked soon, though, and just add to all the other clutter on these forums.

Constructive criticism of FM09 demo is a good thing - and the more intelligent posts, even when negative, are interesting and helpful. This does not fall into that category, and I was entitled to point that out.

You started the whole hostility by being sarcastic and alot of people on these forums are sick of people who think they run the board and order everyone about. Yes I called you a moron but it was no worse than how you were sarcastic to me for no reason.

You started the whole hostility by being sarcastic and alot of people on these forums are sick of people who think they run the board and order everyone about. Yes I called you a moron but it was no worse than how you were sarcastic to me for no reason.

Well I disagree with you on your second point, but point taken, I shouldn't have been sarcastic. I apologise if I affended you. Some of the other posters in this thread seem to be a little too precious though. What's Nellie's problem, for example. :confused:

GillsMan makes plenty of constructive posts. I can understand his frustration given what's happened to this forum since the demo was released. The standard of contributions has certainly gone down. Having said that, the original post is definitely not the worst I've seen round here. At least dingle_eater (Preston fan?) bothered to provide us with reasons as to why he is bidding farewell to FM. Problem is, as GillsMan pointed out, there is already a thread for this kind of thing, and about 8 billion others he could have posted in. It's not about egos, in all honesty. It's just about wanting some kind of sanity to return to the forum.

I think it's a bit unfair to say that SI don't listen to us. Last year a lot of people posted saying they wanted 3D, we've now got it. People wanted to play the game without the disc, we've now got that. People wanted more interaction (media, players etc.), we've now got it. People wanted assistant manager feedback, we've now got it.

This is a very valid point. I think SI really do listen to all of the ideas posted on the forums. I may be wrong but I can't think of many other games where so many features are included at the request of the fans. It must be very hard being the guys at SI- they appeared to be damned if they do, damned if they don't.

GillsMan makes plenty of constructive posts. I can understand his frustration given what's happened to this forum since the demo was released. The standard of contributions has certainly gone down. Having said that, the original post is definitely not the worst I've seen round here. At least dingle_eater (Preston fan?) bothered to provide us with reasons as to why he is bidding farewell to FM. Problem is, as GillsMan pointed out, there is already a thread for this kind of thing, and about 8 billion others he could have posted in. It's not about egos, in all honesty. It's just about wanting some kind of sanity to return to the forum.

Succinct and very much to the point. Well said sire.

What I really want to know is why do some people moan / say the game is too hard and that its too complicated. This is supposed to be a realistic football management simulator and by instantly being able to win every game / league / cup in the first season is NOT realistic. To be able to click a few buttons and sit back and enjoy success is NOT fun. Its supposed to be a challenge and is what FM is all about and I hope continues to be about. Yes I understand some people don't have time to sit and tweak tactics / look for transfers / sit through media / press conferences but at the end of the day there are many other easier and faster games you can play. FM has always been the best and with FM09 I believe they have made huge steps forwards and I hope that the series will continue to be a challenge that will last a year or more and not a simple game you can play / win / get bored with in 2 weeks. Maybe a suggestion will be a new game called AFM2009 - (assistant football manager) because basically thats all you would be if SI took out the ''challenging / harder'' features.

Dingle,

I found your initial post interesting and valid. I personally don't bother with the demo's, as I know I'm gonna buy the game anyway.

It really gets my goat that these self-appointed psuedo moderators, post on here with there "your whinging" and "wrong place" comments. It's up to the REAL mods to move, close or change threads.

I stand by my d**khead comment, as it's clearly accurate. Judging by the fact that he glories in being called a "smartarse" yet takes umbrage at being called a "moron". Enough said !!

Mike7077 I am an West Brom fan (Dingles being Wolves) I can accept what everyone has said its just I want to get my point across and the majority of the time the official threads are more of a mess than posting seperate threads, there is so much chaos in some of the large threads where everything gets lost. I apologise for posting where I shouldnt I just wanted to get my frustration out and TBH my sadness as I have been playing these since CM 97/98 and I would love to carry on playing but I really dont think I can. Should I try the demo again? I dont know.

Dingle,

I found your initial post interesting and valid. I personally don't bother with the demo's, as I know I'm gonna buy the game anyway.

It really gets my goat that these self-appointed psuedo moderators, post on here with there "your whinging" and "wrong place" comments. It's up to the REAL mods to move, close or change threads.

I stand by my d**khead comment, as it's clearly accurate. Judging by the fact that he glories in being called a "smartarse" yet takes umbrage at being called a "moron". Enough said !!

Nellie, please calm down. Some of us have been on these forums for many many versions, and the only reason we say "This could be in another thread" is because it annoys the vast amount of users. If you notice I am polite and courteous in my posts. Regardless of your feelings do you not agree that the issues posted above are completely the same to some previous threads? That is all I personally was trying to get across.

I don't like animosity, I've had to deal with a lot while moderating FML as well, theres no need for it.

Mike7077 I am an West Brom fan (Dingles being Wolves) I can accept what everyone has said its just I want to get my point across and the majority of the time the official threads are more of a mess than posting seperate threads, there is so much chaos in some of the large threads where everything gets lost. I apologise for posting where I shouldnt I just wanted to get my frustration out and TBH my sadness as I have been playing these since CM 97/98 and I would love to carry on playing but I really dont think I can. Should I try the demo again? I dont know.

Try the demo again. That old tingle will soon return. Or sell your family, freeing up more game time...

Mike7077 I am an West Brom fan (Dingles being Wolves) I can accept what everyone has said its just I want to get my point across and the majority of the time the official threads are more of a mess than posting seperate threads, there is so much chaos in some of the large threads where everything gets lost. I apologise for posting where I shouldnt I just wanted to get my frustration out and TBH my sadness as I have been playing these since CM 97/98 and I would love to carry on playing but I really dont think I can. Should I try the demo again? I dont know.

Yes, try it again. You know you want to.

CM is not the way to go IMO.

Mike7077 I am an West Brom fan (Dingles being Wolves) I can accept what everyone has said its just I want to get my point across and the majority of the time the official threads are more of a mess than posting seperate threads, there is so much chaos in some of the large threads where everything gets lost. I apologise for posting where I shouldnt I just wanted to get my frustration out and TBH my sadness as I have been playing these since CM 97/98 and I would love to carry on playing but I really dont think I can. Should I try the demo again? I dont know.

Sorry for accusing you of supporting North End! I had a friend who was a fan and referred to Burnley fans as Dingles.

Anyway, I haven't played the demo, so I can't advise you. But would I say you're right to say goodbye completely? No. There's a patch coming out on release day, remember. Given that you asked if you should try the demo again, I'm assuming it's specifically the demo that's turned you off as opposed to a general feeling that the game is going in the wrong direction. So, after that patch, you might find it's improved. Then again, you might not. So ultimately, the ball is in your court. I have a feeling you will end up playing '09, though.

Try the demo again. That old tingle will soon return. Or sell your family, freeing up more game time...

Lol dont know how much Id get for them. I will probably give it a try again.

But Nellie I know you kind of agree with me but I think you are being out of order TBH mate just calm it down a bit

And the Ass Man feedback while it is a good feature, there is way to much stuff being pointed out if you were to listen to him all game it would take you all night to finish a match.

This is the point. And it really sums up how the game has changed over the years. With CM00-01 I used to fire up the lap top and settle down in my comfy chair in front of the telly and get through half a season in an afternoon. You just can't do that now. You have to watch each match in some depth, so you can see how your opposition is playing gainst you and ammend your tactics accordingly. The days of sorting out the best tactic for your team and sticking with it all season are gone.

I now get through maybe 10 matches maximum in an afternoon. That's what happens when the game becomes more "in depth". I now my dad (in his 60's) really liked playing it until 2005 when it just got so complicated it stopped being as much fun for the casual player. I'm amazed at people that get through so many seasons in a save these days - they really can't have many other interests!

For a lot of people these additional demands are what makes the game so great, but I do think there are a lot of people for whom it makes the game (or is it a simulation now?) too demanding. That is neither a good, nor a bad thing. For people like us, that have been playing the franchise since the first version came out in the early 90's, it does take some adjusting to. But at east we've had the benefit of growing up with the game: I dread to think how daunting it must be for someone new to the whole thing!

It doesn't help that there's so much ambiguity about what instructions do. For instance, does ticking "counter attack" mean the team aim to get the ball forward as quickly as possible (I assumed it did) or does it mean (as wwfan has suggested) that they keep hold of the ball until they can see a really good pass is on (which had never occured to me, but does seem to make sense now I've watch teams playing with it in a different tactical set up)? A guide as detailed a wwfan's TTF should be the minimum guide included with the game, I think, although the new assistant manager feature does seem to help a lot.

And, after your constructive and fair criticism, Gillsman's peurile reply sums up another problem with the game. It's very complex and the forums should be a massive resource to the struggling player, but all too often people's genuine problems with the game are dismissed by silly little fanboys and no action is taken against them.

FWIW, I'm really looking forward to Nov 14th. I like the 3D engine (although I've only had time to play a handful of games on the demo) and I will continue to play the game for a while yet (although I've really never got on with FM2008), but I do think your points are valid.

I stand by my d**khead comment, as it's clearly accurate. Judging by the fact that he glories in being called a "smartarse" yet takes umbrage at being called a "moron". Enough said !!

Settle down mate. You're showing yourself up a little bit here. For the record, Dingle's actually a decent poster, but his thread did come across a bit as whinging, and I've already apologised for being sarcastic, which I admit was uncalled for. I'm not a self-appointed mod - I have no desire to moderate this forum. It's just that I like this forum, and it'd be nice if threads were all in the correct place. But meh, I can't be arsed to get into an argument with you, as you'll only try to make fun of something else from my profile and, well, I'm not sure I can quite compete with that level of wit.

Dingle - tbh, I've never been a big fan of demos, so I'm not sure I can recommend trying the demo again. One of the factors maybe that you can't get into a career type game when you know you've only got 6 months and you can't set up all the leagues the way you like. So it's a tricky one. You could wait for the first or second patch, and see what the reaction is - but they tend to be a bit polarised on here: "FM IS RUBBISH" or "FM IS AMAZING", so you'll have a job getting a sensible midpoint in the reactions!! I think it'll be a good game, but I'm in no rush to buy it, I may wait until the new year, and by then hopefully I'll have an idea on what the general concensus is (though I'll almost certainly end up buying it anyway!!).

I have have to agree with the thread starter. I think 08 was too difficult for me. It was the first game of the series that I couldn't win premiership and have played since first CM. I've read tactics forum a lot and have tested multiple different approaches but nothing seems to work. The best accomplishment was 5th with Spurs (no jokes please) and ManC and winning the UEFA cup. 07 had the perfect difficulty level for me. Now the game might be more realistic, but no more so enjoyable. I hope the 09 is different. SI is perhaps forgetting that most of us are just casual gamers. We don't have the time or the energy to create the perfect tactic for every match.

Lol dont know how much Id get for them. I will probably give it a try again.

But Nellie I know you kind of agree with me but I think you are being out of order TBH mate just calm it down a bit

Fair comment mate.

Problem is, I initially read your post and seeing that there were replies, I was interested to read on. Only to find that as usual someone is flaming the original poster for 'whinging' (which you wern't) and all the wrong place rubbish too.

I cannot help but be irritated at the way some people post on here, but I guess I'm now guilty of doing the same !!

Judging by the fact that you posted in the first place, I think you care about FM and as such need to give it another go.

Fair comment mate.

Problem is, I initially read your post and seeing that there were replies, I was interested to read on. Only to find that as usual someone is flaming the original poster for 'whinging' (which you wern't) and all the wrong place rubbish too.

I cannot help but be irritated at the way some people post on here, but I guess I'm now guilty of doing the same !!

Judging by the fact that you posted in the first place, I think you care about FM and as such need to give it another go.

Does that mean I get an apology?

This is the point. And it really sums up how the game has changed over the years. With CM00-01 I used to fire up the lap top and settle down in my comfy chair in front of the telly and get through half a season in an afternoon. You just can't do that now. You have to watch each match in some depth, so you can see how your opposition is playing gainst you and ammend your tactics accordingly. The days of sorting out the best tactic for your team and sticking with it all season are gone.

I now get through maybe 10 matches maximum in an afternoon. That's what happens when the game becomes more "in depth". I now my dad (in his 60's) really liked playing it until 2005 when it just got so complicated it stopped being as much fun for the casual player. I'm amazed at people that get through so many seasons in a save these days - they really can't have many other interests!

For a lot of people these additional demands are what makes the game so great, but I do think there are a lot of people for whom it makes the game (or is it a simulation now?) too demanding. That is neither a good, nor a bad thing. For people like us, that have been playing the franchise since the first version came out in the early 90's, it does take some adjusting to. But at east we've had the benefit of growing up with the game: I dread to think how daunting it must be for someone new to the whole thing!

It doesn't help that there's so much ambiguity about what instructions do. For instance, does ticking "counter attack" mean the team aim to get the ball forward as quickly as possible (I assumed it did) or does it mean (as wwfan has suggested) that they keep hold of the ball until they can see a really good pass is on (which had never occured to me, but does seem to make sense now I've watch teams playing with it in a different tactical set up)? A guide as detailed a wwfan's TTF should be the minimum guide included with the game, I think, although the new assistant manager feature does seem to help a lot.

And, after your constructive and fair criticism, Gillsman's peurile reply sums up another problem with the game. It's very complex and the forums should be a massive resource to the struggling player, but all too often people's genuine problems with the game are dismissed by silly little fanboys and no action is taken against them.

FWIW, I'm really looking forward to Nov 14th. I like the 3D engine (although I've only had time to play a handful of games on the demo) and I will continue to play the game for a while yet (although I've really never got on with FM2008), but I do think your points are valid.

That post was going very well until the phrase 'silly little fanboys'. I know for a fact that GillsMan has made plenty of criticisms of the game. And he's not the only one. I've been here for two and a half years, which is not especially long, I know, but of all the regular posters I've seen in that time, none of them match your description.

These forums are indeed meant to be a resource for the struggling player, as well as other things. But can you honestly say that the incoherent free-for-all of late is really helping anyone? Plus, this is General Discussion. Its aim is just that; a place where we can discuss the game. There's a bugs forum and a data issues forum and a technical issues forum and various others to deal with specific issues. I'm not trying to moderate, I promise. I actually just would like to defuse the tension in this thread!

I don't think there is any game community where the developers listen and take on board to desires of its consumers. They cannot implement everything, the game would never be released and we would be going to a virtual Tesco spending our virtual wages whilst looking to buy a club and be a chairman. When people get used to the game, they will realise its is probably the best product SI have ever released (except for the novelty mouse with HMV).

If you're going then there's a lot to be said for leaving quietly.

Does that mean I get an apology?

If you did'nt support Gillingham, then yes I would apologise

Name calling is juvenile, so for that I apologise. You were sarcastic though !

"No one likes us !"

And, after your constructive and fair criticism, Gillsman's peurile reply sums up another problem with the game. It's very complex and the forums should be a massive resource to the struggling player, but all too often people's genuine problems with the game are dismissed by silly little fanboys and no action is taken against them.

I've already apologised for the sarcastic response, and admitted that it was uncalled for. But a "silly little fanboy"? Hardly! I've often criticised lazy posts (not including this one in that) for just saying "FM is unplayable" or whatever, and I've often criticised posters who seem to think they have a right to be out-and-out rude to SI people who post on here. But I have been fairly vocal with my criticisms of the game, so a silly little fanboy I am not. If you want a list of the things I'm dissatisfied with, I'd be happy to provide them.

FM is very complex, I agree, and there are great resources on here to help struggling players, I use them myself. The Tactics forum and Good player guide are good starter points, but GQ is good for help as well. But if you simply write "FM is unplayable" (as many posters do), it's difficult to help them, no?

If you did'nt support Gillingham, then yes I would apologise

Name calling is juvenile, so for that I apologise. You were sarcastic though !

"No one likes us !"

Millwall? Oh right, you can stuff your apology up your a... only kidding!

hehe ... Getting like the WOW forums on here.

Dingle Eater... If you need some explanation on the Sliders there are a few threads that can help you. The principal is pretty much the same as FM08 I should imagine, so have a read of Cleon's Tactical Bible.. Failing that send me an email and I'll put it in layman terms for you if you wish!.. Not being cocky, just prepared to help you out.

email is on my profile thingy. .

That post was going very well until the phrase 'silly little fanboys'. I know for a fact that GillsMan has made plenty of criticisms of the game.

Fair enough - I don't bother keeping track of who says what where, only what's been said in the thread I'm replying to and his initial reply here deserved the criticism it got... if he's usually a good all round guy then fair enough I apologise.

Well i totally agree with the original poster. Played 06, 07 and 08 to death with hundreds of hours of game time on each but so far this seems way too complicated.

Maybe a constructive approach would be to suggest that SI introduce a skill/involvement level setting into the game.

This would allow users to select which type of game they want to play. The more involved could have all the sliders and minute adjustments while the casual user could just select a tactic from a list and play their game. I know it's only a demo but with 08 people had passable tactics posted in hours and i have yet to find one on here (although i'd be happy to be corrected on that if you know of one).

Still holding out for a patch to improve it but I would go as far as to say that if the game is similar to the demo i will not be buying the game either but will stick with good old 2D FM08 instead and have some fun with that.

But a "silly little fanboy"? Hardly!

See othe reply mate, sorry.

See othe reply mate, sorry.

No worries!

philgill (great name) - it's something that has been suggested before, and while I don't think it's a bad idea in principle, is it not already there to some degree? For example, you can be totally involved, tweak the contracts, tactics, etc, or you can hand control to your ass man who can take that for you. Now the Ass Man gives more advice than ever.

On top of that you could try to take Fisher Athletic to the Premier League (difficult), try to keep Blackburn at a mid table level (easy), and so on.

That said - I'm struggling with the tactics in FM09 - my Gillingham side lost 1-0 to Maidstone United in a friendly with a relatively experienced side. So maybe it is too difficult!

Either I leave the thread open, or come in and start asking people to be polite every other minute...difficult decision

It's crap like this which makes forums so stupid, the guy makes a valid point, expressing his disappointment at certain aspects of the game, then he's criticised for starting a thread about it? Why does it matter? It's people making criticisms like this that make it almost impossible to get serious decent feedback on your opinions, and last time i checked that's what forums are here for.

I'm pretty sure anyone with any manners wouldn't speak to someone else face-to-face in the way they do on forums, so why change your approach just because you're on the internet and there's no reprocussions? I've posted opinions before and because they're in the wrong sub-forum I've had people having a go. When I'm on a forum I make posts, and when I log off i'm done with it. I can see why mods have a role to play, but in terms of just dismissing peoples views, if you didn't make the game why are you concerned?

I think everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I'm sure if his post had been saying "I Love FM09, I'll be camping outside HMV to buy it the day it comes out" he wouldn't of been met with the replies he was. Sorry if I'm ranting now, and my post is aimed at no-one in particular, it's just frustrating when a post regarding a game we all enjoy ends up in farcical squabbling.