Why can't they just focus on making a better 2d and add somethin to the core features

3d was always going to hard, extremely hard, but no one demanded it. Most Fm fans would had been quite content without it. The fact is it is rather poor and takes away a great deal from the match engine. Not having a go SI as it is pretty much impossible to acheive this.

Why give up on 2d? A graphical representation of the game is needed so why not build on what you already have? Tilt the screen, add angles, more shadow, detail, a better looking ball etc. If you can do 3d surely this is possible. It could look fantastic and keep the ME's dignity which, to be honest, the 3d does not.

Also, although there have been some nice additions, press conferences, player preferred moves and the other subtle details, why not build on tactics? Build on interaction, on contracts and manager stats etc, the core features that have not evolved much in recent years.

Apart from anything else the game is in danger of becoming a bit boring. That is surprising.

Why would you give up 2d It's still there and works just as well as before.

i agree but it's thier decision. i'm still gonna be using 2d for some time, like many older FM players probably. but what about kids who are starting to play managar games now, they'd choose fifa or cm over 2d fm surely...

but 2d must stay as an option, i just don't get why it is so jumpy on my machine.

They made a vastly improved 2d engine? Its been worked on constantly by SI through the FML beta, so saying they gave up on 2d is totally wrong.

Other than that they've overhauled the transfer system, which is a massive piece of development, and added some other great things as well. So I really don't see what the problem is.

3d was always going to hard, extremely hard, but no one demanded it.

Er, really? People were demanding it every day. I wasn't one of them, but there were posts about it all the time.

i have no issues with the 3d, I think it does exactly what it says on the tin. Its a 3d representation of the match engine we were watching in in 2D. The 3D does a good job and I for one prefer it.

From now on all the games going to be about is improving 3d. Next year it will be, We've now added more stadiums, some more camera angles, new animations. Even if it looks like fifa, will that be good enough?

As much as I hate to say it, the animations have to be absolutely superb to make 3d work. Before, the matches were always sort of real and believable. Now you do all your preperation, with Fm's subtle and toned interface and it seems real, only to watch the match unfold in an extremely cheesy way and it kills everything.

Lastly, whenever people talk about 2d its always talking about the actual engine. Yes, maybe this has been imporoved but what about the look. The garaphics of the 2d.

I know i've said this before but if they can make 3d , think about what could be done to 2d. Adding more colours, higher resolutions and detail, shadows, a perspective of height, a ball that actually resembles todays official premier league ball rather than the 70's ball we have now, etc.

If this was done, I challenge anyone who says that because its not 3d it would get left behind.

3d was always going to hard, extremely hard, but no one demanded it. Most Fm fans would had been quite content without it. The fact is it is rather poor and takes away a great deal from the match engine. Not having a go SI as it is pretty much impossible to acheive this.

Actually, that's just your opinion.

Also, although there have been some nice additions, press conferences, player preferred moves and the other subtle details, why not build on tactics? Build on interaction, on contracts and manager stats etc, the core features that have not evolved much in recent years.

There hardly is any more additions possible, other than an eventual expansion of the already existing features.

Apart from anything else the game is in danger of becoming a bit boring. That is surprising.

...which might be caused by you having played it for X number of years. Not a suprise that one might find it a bit dull, eventually, but it usually resolves after taking a short break from the game.

3d was always going to hard, extremely hard, but no one demanded it. Most Fm fans would had been quite content without it.

Where've you been? Certainly not on here, that's for sure. We've had to suffer endless requests for 3D for the last couple of years at least.

The 3D was devloped independently from the actual game itself btw. If it is improved it will be by the same dedicated team.

I said it after FM07, and FM08, and i'll still say it.

SI need to not concentrate on new features for one release (or skip one) and just get things working properly.

There are still obvious problems with the match engine - people standing on the ball for 20 seconds (game time)

The transfer system is still poor despite the "re-writing".

The game is unstable.

Fix what you have before trying to add more and more stuff to a struggling base.

The match engine actually seems to be worse than the one i was testing in FML back in April/May!

Where've you been? Certainly not on here, that's for sure. We've had to suffer endless requests for 3D for the last couple of years at least.

Alright, some people want 3d some don't. Personally I would not play the game if there was not some visual representation of the match. My question is this, Why have they not changed the look of 2d this year or in the last few years? alright there have been small additions like the nets the subs bench etc but basicly it is the same circles and all that. They must have considered or attempted it?

I haven't touched the 2D on FM09, I'm enjoying the 3D far too much tbh

And I was certainly in the camp that didn't want it beforehand...

I'm not sure how much you can expect the 2D view to evolve either - it'll always be 'circles and all that' by definition, surely?

If SI had gone the isometric route, they would still have done the same work on the match engine, i.e. the ball physics. No-one would have complained as it would be seen as an improvement. The following year, everyone would expect them to go 3D - after all, even if it was stick men it would be the next step from isometric.

The reason people aren't getting the 3D is they don't see it as an improvement on 2D, they see it as something completely new. The fact is, there is no room for improvement in the 2D without at least making isometric. If you are going to do that then animated men is surely an improvement over isometric circles, even if it is not as big a leap as most people hoped.

3d makes it easier to differentiate between a bad tackle and a horrible tackle easier

rather thatn two dots making contact with each other

Top post.

Eidos and BGS have delayed their game till April 09 due to the overhaul of the game but they say they want to make sure the new features are core features and not just gimmicky ad ons (a dig?).

Its a big risk to do that from BGS but having seen the screenshots of their game there 3D engine + the interface is looking smart.

It is inevitiable that BGS and Eidos will produced and overtake SI and Sega at the current rate that both games have evolved from FM05/CM05.

Have you played the last couple of championship managers?? They have been absolutely shocking.. So I highly doubt Eidos and BGS will be overtaking Si and Sega anytime soon..

it's odd;

my shockingly old PC (USB v1 only - no joke!) cannot run the demo (no surprise there), and won't be getting an upgrade - building a new Vista PC currently....

however, my Craptop (not a gaming laptop by any means, single Celeron processor, with 1gig RAM) DOES run the demo, after a Direct X v9 upgrade to the Direct X v9 Aug'08 release....

the 3D graphics are not available (greyed out) but the 2D still runs, although there are issues....

gameplay is unaffected (mostly), and the demo is about as "fast" as FM2008 was on my old shocking PC....

I wasn't in the "3D camp" prior to FM2009, and still don't see why it is needed - doesn't add to the gameplay for me, and there were other areas of the game that needed work (transfers, regens, training etc)....

I would have thought 3D would be more suitable for the next "redesign" like with the step from CM->FM, as an add-on, I had the feeling there would be trouble!

However, as my Craptop has automatically disabled the 3D option, as it cannot run it, I think a few peeps out there need to buy/install more RAM, as it might help - certainly, my Craptop graphically is not a world-beater, but the Direct X upgrade + RAM already being 1gig seems to help it cope!

Hopefully, my new PC will be ready by the 14th!

can you post a link with DX august release please?

is 2d running smoothly on craptop?

is this it http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=C1367BC3-4676-481A-BFAA-5C15D1D7199D&displaylang=en ?

can you post a link with DX august release please?

is 2d running smoothly on craptop?

if not, you can download DirectX update here:-

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3&displaylang=en

laptop PC runs the demo ok, not great, and the 3D option is not available - suprised it ran at all on the laptop actually!

Top post.

Eidos and BGS have delayed their game till April 09 due to the overhaul of the game but they say they want to make sure the new features are core features and not just gimmicky ad ons (a dig?).

Its a big risk to do that from BGS but having seen the screenshots of their game there 3D engine + the interface is looking smart.

It is inevitiable that BGS and Eidos will produced and overtake SI and Sega at the current rate that both games have evolved from FM05/CM05.

If you haven't played the current Champ Man downlaod the demo....if you're impressed with it then I feel sorry for you.

From now on all the games going to be about is improving 3d. Next year it will be, We've now added more stadiums, some more camera angles, new animations. Even if it looks like fifa, will that be good enough?

As much as I hate to say it, the animations have to be absolutely superb to make 3d work. Before, the matches were always sort of real and believable. Now you do all your preperation, with Fm's subtle and toned interface and it seems real, only to watch the match unfold in an extremely cheesy way and it kills everything.

Lastly, whenever people talk about 2d its always talking about the actual engine. Yes, maybe this has been imporoved but what about the look. The garaphics of the 2d.

I know i've said this before but if they can make 3d , think about what could be done to 2d. Adding more colours, higher resolutions and detail, shadows, a perspective of height, a ball that actually resembles todays official premier league ball rather than the 70's ball we have now, etc.

If this was done, I challenge anyone who says that because its not 3d it would get left behind.

You do understand that if you add shadows and perspective of height that is 3D and no longer 2D and the changes you are describing are changing to 3D yet your opening statement says you want to keep 2D. The 2D and 3D run off the same code, if you don't like 3D then don't use it, you should get the same result either way. There is not much you can do with 2D as it will always be 2 dimensions, length and width.

I said it after FM07, and FM08, and i'll still say it.

SI need to not concentrate on new features for one release (or skip one) and just get things working properly.

There are still obvious problems with the match engine - people standing on the ball for 20 seconds (game time)

The transfer system is still poor despite the "re-writing".

The game is unstable.

Fix what you have before trying to add more and more stuff to a struggling base.

The match engine actually seems to be worse than the one i was testing in FML back in April/May!

Totaly agree, I would pay £20 just for a data update next year if they took the time to get it working.

If you haven't played the current Champ Man downlaod the demo....if you're impressed with it then I feel sorry for you.

What are you on? There is NO CM09 demo till March 09.

I said the SCREENSHOTS and INTERFACE look good on CM09, far better than FM09.

Try reading you clown!

You do understand that if you add shadows and perspective of height that is 3D and no longer 2D and the changes you are describing are changing to 3D yet your opening statement says you want to keep 2D. The 2D and 3D run off the same code, if you don't like 3D then don't use it, you should get the same result either way. There is not much you can do with 2D as it will always be 2 dimensions, length and width.

What I'm saying is 3d as in motion capture on the players, like now, is not right and hard to get right.

2d, 3d or 2d/3d call it what you like. Imagine the current 2d, same view but with 3d icons, if you know what I mean. Like watching a football match from an overhead camera. Yes they have that camera in the 3d ME now but it still has the bad animations and you don't see all the pitch at once.

Also, please stop saying about how its the same code. I know, but how come a shot from 35yards looks quite beleivable and feels about right in 2d however in 3d it looks ridiculas. Or in 2d when a player stands still on the ball or walks with the ball, you can understand what hes doing, in 3d, ridiculas. Answer, huge lack of animations.

Cut out the abuse please.

Agreed that there aren't enough variety in the 3D animations.

I firmly believe that the 3D will improve over time and the 2D will become obsolete.

What SI NEED to do, IMO, is to stop releasing a game that isn't ready to be released.

I am enjoying the demo a lot, I'm enjoying the new features and the overall feel of the game, but some of the glaring bugs are quite literally poking my eyes out.

It is inevitiable that BGS and Eidos will produced and overtake SI and Sega at the current rate that both games have evolved from FM05/CM05.

No, it's really really REALLY not inevitable.

It's much easier to evolve a game from the stage where it's absolutely DREADFUL (CM05) to a state where it's vaguely playable (they *might* get there this year) than it is to go from being VERY VERY good (FM05) to being even better...

BGS and CM are still light years behind FM, and in all likelihood will continue to be so for the forseeable future...

The 3D is very good. It will improve with time. Everytime the same thing. When the 2D was introduced most of you were commenting that you will use the commentary mode. If you don't like the 3D, use the 2D. It is so simple.