FM 09 Condition/Fitness Issue

Got the FM09 demo last night, I think the game has the potential to be great once one or two things have been sorted out. I've seen loads of threads on here about the frequency and length of injuries, but what about the condition of your players? I've noticed it's almost impossible to play most players twice a week, particularly midfielders and wingers. I almost have to name two different teams if I've got a game on a weekend then a wednesday. It takes a whole week to get them back up to more than about 90-92%. This is happening all the way through to late early december, where i am now, so it cant be a case of early season, lacking match practice or anything.

There seems to be a problem with the fitness of players who you subsitute/take off in a game. You know at the end of a match how all players 'regain' a bit of fitness straight away, say Rooney finishes the game on 75%, as soon as full time goes he'll be back up to about 80-85. This has always been the case for players who've been subbed off too on past fms. However on this new one, I'll take a player off, say michael carrick, when he's on 70, and at the end of the game he'll still be on 70. Whereas those players who finished/played the whole game all go straight back up by nearly 10%. This then causes problems for the next game 3 or 4 days later, as carrick will only be on about 90% for this game, even though it's been 4 days since the previous match, when he was on 100% and fully match fit, and I substituted him! This is a definite bug, and could really do with looking at/fixing in my opinion, anyone else experiencing this?

I never noticed this, but I'm going to play a few games here and I'll keep a close eye on condition.

Oh yea this is my first time posting on here so I hope I put this thread in the right place...

I never noticed this, but I'm going to play a few games here and I'll keep a close eye on condition.

Cheers, I think it's a definite problem, particularly with the players who you subsitute in games. I remember something similar happening with condition last year before the patches were released and it was then adjusted/sorted out.

Nice to see a constructive post from a new member, with no ranting - just goes to prove that it is perfectly possible.

Nice to see a constructive post from a new member, with no ranting - just goes to prove that it is perfectly possible.

Spot on

But reflection22, I have never noticed it myself but will take a closer look next time.

Spot on

But reflection22, I have never noticed it myself but will take a closer look next time.

Thanks. Although this issue somewhat annoyed me, it's always more effective to make your point on something in a polite manner. The game is still potentially great. I found the condition a definite problem, but it's something that can be adjusted and hopefully sorted out for when the first patch comes out. So yea if everyone could keep an eye, especially on the fitness of those players you take off, versus those who play the whole game, at the end of the match when you are giving your team talk. The ones who play the whole game have 'jumped' back up by nearly 10% from the condition they were on just before the final whistle blew, while the ones you've taken off don't regain any condition at all. This affects their condition for the next match.

Think I noticed something similar to this. Will have a look again though.

I think you should post this potential bug in the bugs forum too.

This should be posted in the bugs forum.

I went and played a few matches there and this does indeed seem to be the case.

Also - agree with playmaker - nice that someone who has a genuine problem with the game has posted in a sensible and mature manner.

Breath of fresh air, I don't see him complaining that he's cancelled his order.

This should be posted in the bugs forum.

I went and played a few matches there and this does indeed seem to be the case.

Also - agree with playmaker - nice that someone who has a genuine problem with the game has posted in a sensible and mature manner.

Breath of fresh air, I don't see him complaining that he's cancelled his order.

Cheers, nah no way, I'm definitely getting the game, I love Football Manager, I just think this a problem and it will benefit everyone if it's sorted out. FM09 blatantly has the makings of a good game. I actually remember a very similar condition issue in FM08 last year, pre-patches.

I'll go post this in the bugs forum now, I didn't know where I should put this thread as I haven't posted here before...

I already posted it for you reflection22

i think conditioning is an issue throughout the match actually, players are dropping way too fast, especially those on forward runs often.

i think conditioning is an issue throughout the match actually, players are dropping way too fast, especially those on forward runs often.

Hence you end up subbing those players who drop quickly, who tend to be midfielders/wingers. This makes the problem worse, however, as the ones you sub off don't regain any fitness straight after the final whistle, while all the players who played the whole match do. This leaves them on about 90% for a game four days later, despite the fact they were on 100% and fully match fit before your last match, and you subbed them off! In previous fms, every player gains nearly 10% condition straight after the final whistle, including those you sub off. You can see the difference in condition from just before the final whistle blew when you are giving your full-time team talk.

I haven't noticed this any moreso than in other versions. I'd suggest that your pre-season possibly wasn't enough to get the old bones shaken up - after 6/7 matches they seem up to normal fitness in my game, everyone who hasn't been injured is getting back to 97-99% by matches 4 days apart no problem.

I haven't noticed this any moreso than in other versions. I'd suggest that your pre-season possibly wasn't enough to get the old bones shaken up - after 6/7 matches they seem up to normal fitness in my game, everyone who hasn't been injured is getting back to 97-99% by matches 4 days apart no problem.

I did the same pre-season I always do in fm. There was a similar issue with condition problems last year pre-patches...I think it definitely needs adjusting again.

This is good feedback, and I will certainly investigate it in the context of the amount of match day injuries.

Yet more reassurance PaulC.

Good form again

I've tested with several formations and closing down/tempo/tackling variants but the problem does indeed seem to exist.

This is good feedback, and I will certainly investigate it in the context of the amount of match day injuries.

Thanks, I'm not sure if it has something to do with the injuries, but I think it is kind of a seperate issue also. Ie, the fact that the players who you sub off don't 'regain' any condition at full time, while the ones who play the full 90 minutes do. All players in past fms, including the ones you subbed off, would always regain nearly 10% from what they were on just before the final whistle blew, when you gave your full-time team-talk. Those players you have subbed off in particular are always on about 90% 4 days later, when you play your next match. If they started the last game on 100% and fully match fit, and I took them off in say the 60th minute, they should really be on 98-100% 4 days later. If they had 'regained' condition at the final whistle then maybe they would be.

*Edited to add I'm talking top players here, with really high stamina. I've been managing Man Utd.

Anyway I'm to sleep now, thanks again.

i think conditioning is an issue throughout the match actually, players are dropping way too fast, especially those on forward runs often.

Been playing for another hour, just wanted to say that I know 2 things for definite...

1. Players on forward runs condition drops way too fast during matches.

2. Players who you subsitute do not regain any conditioning at the end of games, from just before the final whistle blows to when you give your full-time team talk, while all the players who played the whole game do regain (around 10%).

Issue 1 causes me to subsitute players early in games, despite the fact they were on 100% and fully match fit before the game started. Issue 2 means that subbing them almost makes the situation worse as players who you sub off do not regain condition at the end of the game like the ones who played 90 minutes, leaving them struggling at around 90% for your next game. To clarify, these are players with high stamina who are fully match fit, not ones who are lacking or severely lacking match fitness.

It's 100% clear to me that these are definite problems. Hope this helps.

I'm really off to sleep this time, peace.

This is a good point.

I have a feeling the injuries and fitness issues are linked. I have Javi Martinez, who has 19 for stamina and 18 for strength and he can't even make it through a whole match because of fatigue and knocks. He shouldn't be receiving either of these according to his stats.

I did notice it too, but I thought it was just the quality of my players that made my AM advising to sub my wingers after 20 mins..

In my 1st friendly as manager of Farslay , when i came to selecting my team all my team were around 85-90% fitness . 20 Minutes into the game i chekced my assistants advice , and he told me i should take off player X and X as they are looking tired . I guessed that my training must of been too intense .

I did notice it too, but I thought it was just the quality of my players that made my AM advising to sub my wingers after 20 mins..

It's definitely forward runs which is causing players fitness to drop so dramatically during matches. At first the problem seemed to be mainly with my attacking midfielder and wingers (the only players I had set on forward runs). I then set my full-backs to forward runs to test it out, and sure enough, I had the same problem with them. That just confirmed that there is a issue with forward runs adversely affecting condition during games.

The problem with players who you sub off not regaining a quick 10% condition from just before the final whistle to when you give your full-time team talk, while players who finished the whole game/90 minutes do, is a totally seperate issue. All players including those you sub off should and always have done in past fms gained around 10% condition, you can see the difference from say the 92nd minute to when you give your full-time talk. This is something there can be no arguments about...this is a clear bug. Those who finish the game regain 10% at the final whistle, the ones subbed off do not, leaving them struggling condition wise for the next game. This is as vital to fix as the forward runs problem in my opinion.

Noticed the exact same thing. As soon as you set a player to forward runs often his condition drops fat too much.

A real problem for me as I play a DMC and like my 2 CM's to get forward. They both seem exhausted at half time according to my assistant feedback.

I hope this will be addressed in the release day patch.

God knows how this wasn't picked up in testing.

Noticed the exact same thing. As soon as you set a player to forward runs often his condition drops fat too much.

A real problem for me as I play a DMC and like my 2 CM's to get forward. They both seem exhausted at half time according to my assistant feedback.

I hope this will be addressed in the release day patch.

God knows how this wasn't picked up in testing.

The forward run things is a clear problem, glad others have noticed the same thing. I also cannot stress enough the importance of the fact that players you sub off do not regain any fitness straight after the final whistle at your team talk, while all those who finished the match do (they all regain around 10% straight away). I really hope this doesn't get overlooked!

Just do what you did with injuries and player conditions like on FM08 after 1 or 2 patches. It was brilliant, so change it back!

I find the condition drops too quickly, you can have people starting a match on 90% or more and by half-time your assistant is telling you to sub them off because they're "exhausted."

i find i cant play my players for more than half a match at the moment so maybe this needs to be looked at

Just do what you did with injuries and player conditions like on FM08 after 1 or 2 patches. It was brilliant, so change it back!

Yea, there were similar issues with condition last year pre-patches. It was then sorted out. I really hope they can get it back to how it was after the patches last year.

Does anybody else get loads of injuries during international matches? Sorry if this has been asked already.

yupp, i got 4 players injured whilst on duty..also one thing fm 09 doesnt seem to have while previous versions of the game has is the "move to reserve for a certain amount of time"..may sound stupid, but i enjoyed letting some of the reserves into the first team for two weeks and when a player gets injured e.g. for 3 weeks i would put him into the reserves for a month so he would gain match fitness aswell. will fm 09 bring back the time length on moving players between squads?

yupp, i got 4 players injured whilst on duty..also one thing fm 09 doesnt seem to have while previous versions of the game has is the "move to reserve for a certain amount of time"..may sound stupid, but i enjoyed letting some of the reserves into the first team for two weeks and when a player gets injured e.g. for 3 weeks i would put him into the reserves for a month so he would gain match fitness aswell. will fm 09 bring back the time length on moving players between squads?

I quite like it the way it is as you can control the number of games they play and keep them in the first team page. I had a habit of putting people in the reserves and forgetting I even had them.

Dont see why both ways wouldnt be possible.

also one thing fm 09 doesnt seem to have while previous versions of the game has is the "move to reserve for a certain amount of time"..may sound stupid, but i enjoyed letting some of the reserves into the first team for two weeks and when a player gets injured e.g. for 3 weeks i would put him into the reserves for a month so he would gain match fitness aswell. will fm 09 bring back the time length on moving players between squads?

This is also a feature that I used everytime I had an injury. I would put the player in to the "reserves until match fit". I also used to make sure the reserves had at least one game a week so this wouldn't take forever.

I have noticed this too and it seems to be a pretty big problem as I'm forced to make substitutions sometimes. Along with the injury issue, this is one of the biggest issues with the game so far.