FM09 - Tactics Getting Started

These are all based on my observations from the beta test..I doubt this will be the end of it and I'm sure others will be popping in with more detailed information.

FM 2009 will be a lot more different than FM2008. So if you want to make a decent tactic one will need to understand the various changes in the game first.

a. Arrows and movement of players

Right now arrows basically indicate the types of runs a player will make:

-Farrows = Player runs forward relative to his starting position when the team has the ball

-Barrows = Player does not run forward but stays in a position relative to his backline and stays behind at all times.

- No arrows = Box to box players, they make decisions to move forward or not based on their mentality.

b. Mentality

Mentality affects positioning and how a player behaves on the pitch. Low mentality positions a player lower and makes him more inclined to make defensive kind of passes. Attacking players are more advanced and tend to make more attacking runs.

Your ass man now hints at gaps between middle and defense/ midfield and attack. This will happen if there is a wide gap in mentality between the defenders and midfield. To avoid this you may want to consider split mentalities or simpler setups which either use global or simpler splits. For example if you choose to make a defensive formation...

You could need to make sure the mentalities are either defensive/normal. Step two, . Ensure that the gap between defense and midfield is not greater than four and that the gap between the lowest placed defender and the highest placed player is not more than 8 notches.

DC 5

DC 5

FB 8

MC 9-10

SC 10-13

c. Getting players to make better runs/inside runs

To do this you will want to consider several settings which include, higher creative freedom, forward runs, smart use of run with ball, your width settings. passing styles and the use of free roles.

The best way to play this game is to decide what your side is capable of doing and then setting up a mentality framework for your team. When you're done you should have a mentality setup that you can interchange for any kind of formation you want to play. In other words you can create a template and you're off.

My best piece of advice is to decide what the mentality settings for your defensive group, support group and attacking group should be and then work on choosing the right instructions.

d. Relationships of sliders -

In all formations, mentality, closing down and defensive lines will be linked. So if you are playing an attacking formations, chances are you wil be having higher mentality. higher closing down and higher dlines, likewise for balanced formations.

As i said in the other thread......the absence of sarrows annoys me. I think without them my 4-3-1-2 tactic can´t work properly. The outside mids need them to operate better on the flanks both defensively and offensively. MAINLY without sarrows I will have big problems defending even the simple 4-4-2 because my wings will be empty. And I feel that in this version 4-3-3, 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 will be the ways to go. And that´s sad cos I´m loving 3-5-2, 5-3-2 or 4-3-1-2/4-1-2-1-2 formations.

As i said in the other thread......the absence of sarrows annoys me. I think without them my 4-3-1-2 tactic can´t work properly. The outside mids need them to operate better on the flanks both defensively and offensively. MAINLY without sarrows I will have big problems defending even the simple 4-4-2 because my wings will be empty. And I feel that in this version 4-3-3, 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 will be the ways to go. And that´s sad cos I´m loving 3-5-2, 5-3-2 or 4-3-1-2/4-1-2-1-2 formations.

352 is rather powerful as is the 41212, sarrows didn't allow you to cover the wings anyways, so nothings changed really. You can achieve what you want by using width, width is the key to FM09 imo

I assume you sarrowed your outside mids. It is still possible to make a 4312 work, you just need to get used to the engine and figure out how.

Hi Cleon

Thanks for give me hope that these formations will work but I have to disagree with you, because in FM 2008 central midfielders without sarrows behaved different defensively than central midfielders with sarrows, they covered the wings better.

agreed. bring back the arrows

Arrows are not coming back. And this thread is not meant to be a debate on the virtues of having arrows or not. So stay on topic please

Any advice on closing down this is one thing I never get the hang of setting up properly, thanks. I am using a basic 4-4-2.

When it comes to closing down..the more attacking your mentality the higher your closing down. So don't be afraid of setting someone up with an attacking mentality of 14 with perhaps 16 closing down.

rashidi - am i right in thinking that if i have a defender on a defensive mentality i shouldn't have a striker any higher than a normal mentality? likewise in attacking systems if i have a striker on attacking mentality i shouldn't have a defender on anything less than normal mentality?

Exactly. It makes logical sense as well. If you are an attacking side and you want your team to play as a UNIT then the whole team needs to work together. To get that to happen effectively you need to determine what mentality setup you want. Its possible to create a whole set up of tactics for yourself. For anyone who has the experience of using tactical templates you can go to the tactics folder within the data directory in c:Programs\SI and open it up yourself with notepad and make your own presets.

Alternatively you could go to the default tactics, take a look at them and make adjustments to mentality and closing down.

Just choose a mentality framework that works best for you. Its pointless using one which is very attacking and all you have are poor players who can't pull things off. There are several approaches one could take.

You could create your own defensive/standard/attacking formations or..

You could choose a mentality framework for your team and make tactical adjustments in a game like defensive line/tempo and width changes. If you choose this then you need to decide what Mentality Framework works for you. Personally for me the best one imho lies between 10-18. That allows you to dominate play as a good side. If you are a weak side you may want to consider 8-16, and employ forward runs judiciously.

Right i'm not very good at tactics, but from what I've read in this thread, i need to either have an attacking team or a defensive team, rather than defensive defenders, and attacking strikers. Would this make my team leave less holes in defence?

I am the first to admit that I amnot a great tactical person on FM and regualry relied on others work ut with the use of the 3d match engine to see what my players are doing I am getting some half decent results against teams I would normally get stuffed by in previous games playing as Portsmouth.

interesting assistant manager feedback in one of my matches, saying keane is more used to playing direct, so i bumped up the tempo slider and made his passing direct. the feedback did not change, is it his mentality should be more attacking? i did not try this because it would have effected my set up on the team as a whole.

rashidi1,

How works passing style and tempo ? Can I use all combination of them ? like direct passing and slow tempo ? or is it unproductive ?

When it comes to closing down..the more attacking your mentality the higher your closing down. So don't be afraid of setting someone up with an attacking mentality of 14 with perhaps 16 closing down.

But what abt a DMC whom i would like to tackle hard and win balls, but want to sit in front of the defense? giving him an attacking mentality will see him move higher up the pitch right?

If I set a defender to attacking mentality (same as everyone else, team mentality), will he neglect his defensive duties, and try and do crazy attacking things?

Rashidi, id just like to point out, iv noticed, and im not to keen on it either!!

these back arrows and forward arrows are based on if a player has forward runs on or off. off will make him run back and alot will give them a forward arrow. this reguardless of mentality..

Now IRL where do you see a Centre back making forward runs and getting a forward arrow because of it. or the reverse, runningback because he's told not to make forward runs.

may as well keep it as it was and if you want a player to run forward, back or side ways, then we as manager may as well have the choice..

not to mention im getting alot of tirsome same old info from the assistant about Center backs wishing to close down more when they have closing down set over the half way mark. thats obserd for a CB. he would be caught of of possesion doing that in a good league. or prob any league..

can you comment to help me under stand these new changes m8.

thanks ..

Over time your team gets accustomed to your style of play, so those messages should go away. Furthermore I usually ignore some of the messages cos for instance an SC may not like closing down as much then when you look at his attributes you understand why.

Well you still have the choice as a manager to decide who makes fwruns.. there are centrebacks in real life who make forward runs in games to snatch goals. A good example would be John Terry. Furthermore the position of libero had a DC who would have the freedom to make those kind of decisions. Now these can be done in the game. Previously a DC would never go forward. Now we have the ability to make them do that when we so choose.

You are right to mention that these fwr are independant of mentality, however mentality affects their decision making, so when you set a MC on a defensive mentality, his passing instructions need to be just right or he could just hoof the ball aimlessly. If his mentality is attacking, he will play more attacking passes, if his passing is set to one and he has FWR set to none, he plays a forward pass and sits back, if his mentality is attacking and his fwr is set to mixed, passing to 1 he will play a short pass and then run forward. Again attributes are important, and how you set up the other players as well. A really good tactic is not hard to make. People just need to get used to the way arrows work now.

I have mentioned that depending on your mentality settings you'd need to have the CD settings close to them. Ideally they should be more than the mentality settings. Depending on whom I play with I usually have no issues with my DCs getting caught out...sometimes I see Carragher styled challenges when my team is in full flight attacking. Like I've mentioned if you choose to have an attacking formations, chances are your dcs will be on normal mentality and chances are they closing down instructions will be in line with their mentality or even higher. Depending on how you've set up your dline you could make a very good formation that plays exclusively in an opponents half.

With sides like liverpool, chelsea, united and arsenal. One should be able to dominate and completely play someone else off the park. The challenge increases as you go down the league table.

yeh i see what you mean. i was using Forest, it is more understandable, i thinks its easy to make a template and instructions etc. in in game tweaking as it where, some times end up pulling players out side the team template. i find i am forever tweaking as the game plays in fear of losing a goal..

my tactics have always for years now been about how the Liverpool team of the 80's played, a slow to normal tempo keeping possesion and letting other teams chase the ball. it can be hard when your players are not the best for that current league..

think i need a bigger monitor to see all thhose instructions clearer

In the feedback it says the gap between the defenders and the midfield is to big but I adjusted the mentality like you said. And what do I have to do when he says we need to push more men forward because our forwards are being outnumbered by there defensive line?

really strugling i am playing as spurs and using a 4-2-3-1 formation tried adjusting the farrows still no luck lost 5 games only beat l orient.

I have used this tactic re rashidi's opening post to see how I would perform after 2 draws. I am NUFC played Wolves and got slaughtered 4-0.

But I can see the sense in whats' been said , guess it's just a harder game and my defence is very poor. Bit like the rl NUFC at the moment.

Looking forward to more tips and advice on how to make the squad play that little bit better. Only suffered 2 injuries and 1 not bad. I rotated the players in the 2 earlier games so they did not tire too quickly.

k:)

i like using short passing and fast tempoa la barcelona but is this right at all or am i an idiot

i think 352 or 442 will be the way to go n FM09 as cleon said width will be the key esp with those full backs. i prefer the simple formations i love a great basic 442.

the team mentality is an interesting thought and i think it might be right as i constantly get the midfield denfence gap thing and i had been experimenting with diamond 442 etcs but the team mentality sounds like the best solution cheers rashidi although i think ill wait untill the full release to go back to the game.

just from a quick glance of the other post having your cb's making forward runs can be very important having played a few games as arsenal gallas and toure have allready had a few assists in 5games.

so will team attacking mentality also effect the setup of your d-line as ill usually set my teams upto be very attacking but i used to like having a deep d-line to stop all those fast players getting in behind which has happened to me in every game ive played. ill enjoy playing with the tactics for a bit a semi-master them and then ill just wait for the 'super' formations to come out.

Would i be right in thinking you "have to build your tactics around your players abilities" with this version of the ME, as opposed to earlier versions where you could get away with building tactics then worrying about how players would cope ... ??

Getting my ass kicked no matter what tactic I use.

Strikers cant score for ****.

Getting my ass kicked no matter what tactic I use.

Strikers cant score for ****.

Yeah, im having the same problem working out the new settings needed in my tactics, so far im only scoring from set pieces

i am however getting comments that i have restricted my opposition to longrange efforts, so at least something is working out right, if i only i could work out what

I'm really struggling to make a effective tactic, i am man u and i have hardly seen any defense splitting passes, struggling to break teams down, the only time i have scored from open play is when the opposition are 1-0 down in the last ten minutes and i catch them on the break, also struggling to dominate games, hell, hull just had more possession than me with ten men for the majority of the match.....:confused:

Hmm seems like I need to make a more structured approach to this.

When setting up a tactic, think about the roles your players should play and define them in the instructions. The first step is to define your mentality system.

Once you have decided the band you will play in for instance 10-18. The next step is to define roles in your team. You should have a group of players who focus on defense another group focused on support and one more on attack.

Set the defense group up and give them a range of mentalities to work from. Then determine what their creative freedoms and closing down settings will be. Being defensive their CF will be low, and their mentalities and closing down should not be too far apart. Having done all that set up their passing styles. If you want to play it safe, they can be on long, if you're slightly more confident have them on direct. Short passing should be avoided unless your mentalities in midfield are assured of keeping your shape.

The support group are your players who go up and down. The easiest way to set it up is via fwr. Typically I think of the support group as any player who is required to defend and attack. This would include fullbacks and box to box midfielders. Setting up box to box players is easy. Just make sure their mentalities are not equal to the DCs but are more inline with the fullbacks or slightly lower. If its set up like this they are more defensive, if you want them to push up more than set them to a higher mentality but keep FWR normal. Depending on your width set up their passing styles to match. Its pointless having a wide formation and a lot of players on short passes. This group is the key to possession and unlocking defenses.

Finally you have your attacking group. Naturally you can play it differently, the key lies in mentality and fwr. However you can't have every tom dick and harry make runs, sometimes you need players around to hold their positions and look for killer passes.

Once you have set all these players up then you need to remember only a few things...attacking tactics are typified by tempo, width and less timewasting and more direct passing. Other kinds of tactics may be more patient and probing so they will have mixed passing on some players and practice more judicious use of TTB.

Am doing fairly well with Barnsley. Using a standard 4-4-2. But I have the following issues I just can't seem to get my head around.

1. I only seem to create long chances. I just can't seem to break teams down. Have scored 7 goals in around 5 games. Only conceded 5 tho.

2. My wingers just don't seem to do anything. I had one game where they were involved then the opposition seem to have worked out how to stop them, and I just can't get them to 'work'. Have tried several setups, not much seems to have an effect as yet.

3. Sort of linked to the above problems really. My assman keeps saying we need to get more crosses in. Yet how am I meant to acheive this, my wingers and full-backs both have crosses set to often, mixed position, and I play with lots of width.

If anyone has any suggestions I would be very appreciative.

so will tactics like RoO and RoT work much better in fm09 because of the new tactics system?

I would think so Nick, any system that employs a rigid mentality structure should do well.

Kiwityke, if you want more movements you'd need to look at attributes to. Do you have a side that has the necessary attributes to make those kind of intelligent off the ball runs.Try putting more attacking players on free roles. You'll be surprised to see what your wingers do.

If your wingers are not getting crosses in, its usually because they are being closed down. One of the best ways of getting them free to cross is by making sure you do some triangular passing that releases them or you could also place them in the AML/AMR positions. However I prefer triangular passes with 442. To do this make sure the winger is set to FWR often, passes are direct and that players around him are playing TTB. You could even tell the fullback NOT to try any through balls and leave that to the MC.

rashidi1:

I've adjusted my mentalities to within a few notches of one another so as to eliminate the 'gap between my midfield/defence'; do you have any further suggestions? The only thing I can think of is a MC of mine having a free role - him wandering could leave a hole. However, I have a MC with a barrow to compensate and hopefully plug that gap.

Thoughts?

Ok, I'll describe the tactic I'm using with barcelona, what do I want it to do, how does it actually work in the demo, and finally will ask questions about how to improve it along the lines I want it to work.

Formation 4-1-2-2-1 (standard Barcelona's).FArrows on DR,DL, DMC, MCs and AML/R. BArrows on the DCs.

Starting team (typical, tend to rotate players here and there):

GK: Valdes

DR: Alves

DCs: Caceres, Puyol

DL: Abidal

DMC:Toure

MCs: Xavi, Keita (all around player with long shot) or Gudjohnsen (if I want to pump balls into the area to someone who arrives from 2nd line)

AML: Iniesta (training for that position)

AMR: Messi

DC: Eto'o

Team tactics:

Mentality: just on offensive

Passing: just on short

Tempo: I switch between slow and high to mix between high-possession style of play and short "fast" bursts of play.

Width: Normal

Closing Down: on 14

Creativity: Normal

PlayMaker (Xavi) and offside checkboxes on. Feed to targetman is run to ball or to the feet (depends on the other side style of defence)

Player tactics. Sliders I' don't mention are on team or normal setting.

GK: Normal mentality, CD own area , no through balls,no to FRs...in short no to everything.

DR: All out offensive mentality (it's Alves after all), FRs, RwB, Often center, center from -mixed. Team CD.

DL: Normal mentality (abidal wont' go up that much). FRs, Often center. Center from deep. Team CD

DCs: Normal mentality, no FRs, no Rwb, no centers. CD 2 notches below Normal.

DMC: Mentality 2 notches over Normal. no centers. Team CD

Playmaker MC (Xavi): Mentality on team setting. FRs often, play through balls often. Keep the ball, and freedom to roam around the pitch. Team CD. Creativity to high. Passes to Mixed.

"2nd line-offensive" MC: mentality one notch over team setting. FRs often, play through balls often. Team CD

AMR: Mentality 4 notches over team. FRs often, RwB often, Centres often. Center from byline. Free play, creativity to maximum (this is Messi) Team CD.

AML: Team mentality. FRs often, RwB often, Centres often, Center from Mixed, high creativity. Team CD.

DC: team mentality. FRs often, rest to team or normal.

What I want with this tactic:

-Emulate Barcelona's style of pressure all around the pitch, stealing balls high in midfield, and turn the game into a possession monologue of slow paced construction of play; always with some bursts of very high-paced short passing style to surprise the other side now and then.

-Having Alves run up the pitch to the same byline as he usually does while messi cuts to the middle

-Having Xavi (or Iniesta, or whoever plays there with the required skills) being the main channel connecting the defence and the offensive line.

-Having a forward line to "pin" the enemy defensive line so the player coming from the midfield (usually keita or gudjohnssen but sometimes xavi as well) can break in and smash some goals in.

-Having Messi being Messi .

-Having a strong pair of DCs with the assistance of the DMC to close the other team's approach through the center of the attack.

-having a strong wing defence with fullbacks and assistance from the AML/R

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What I get with this tactic:

-High possession and a playstyle close to what I want. Patient construction of play when i set Tempo to Slow, and very fast slow passing play now and then (tend to lose more balls then, but its to be expected)

-Pressure is far from what I want. Team won't press as a whole, specially if the otehr team channels their play through the wings. Even on the center, the other team's MCs now and then sit around keeping the ball and doing short passes to the other MC and my players will simply stay there watching.

-Don't get the 2nd "offensive" midfielder to go into the box as much as I'd like him to when I'm in possession of the ball.

-Alves goes up now and then, but not as much as I'd like him though (gotta admit that the times he goes up, he looks like the real one )

-Messi isn't messi . He plays allright, he rarely misses passes and dribbles now and then, but it's rarely getting more than a 7. And i'ts hard to feed him with balls and don't know why (tried making him playmaker, chanelling the team's play trhough the right, everything, he won't receive too many balls no matter what).

-Defence is OK in the middle (could be better I guess, but given how many goals I conceded in '08 because my DCs-DMC triangle failed to work,I'm happy with it)...but on the flanks is another story.

Without being weak, my defence on the flanks is done by only two players: the fullbacks. I want the AMR/L to assist them when the team is defending, but the AMR/L will stay up high, rarely going down in the pitch.

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Bassically my questions are how to:

1-increase the chance of the DR going up. I have a DR who is listed in the game as "usually goes up", an all out offensive mentality, and a FArrow, yet I see him going up...3 or 4 times per match, at the most.

2-set up a good team pressure to disturb the other team's play creation in the last 3rd of their own side and stealing the ball there.

3-increase the times the ball goes through a given player (Messi, in this case). Targetman could work?...playmaker didn't.

4-How to force the AMR/Ls to help the fullbacks when in defence. Lowering their mentality? (then they won't help in attack as they should). Turning them into MR/Ls? (same)...no idea here.

5- How to achieve the MC I want to come in from 2nd line to do it more often and more deeply? (now he usually doesn't go inside the other team's box, hard to score goals that way...)

Thanks in advance.

rashidi1:

I've adjusted my mentalities to within a few notches of one another so as to eliminate the 'gap between my midfield/defence'; do you have any further suggestions? The only thing I can think of is a MC of mine having a free role - him wandering could leave a hole. However, I have a MC with a barrow to compensate and hopefully plug that gap.

Thoughts?

Whats your formation? If its an attacking tactic and you have a couple of players on free roles you should get some good attacking patterns.

Ok, I'll describe the tactic I'm using with barcelona, what do I want it to do, how does it actually work in the demo, and finally will ask questions about how to improve it along the lines I want it to work.

Formation 4-1-2-2-1 (standard Barcelona's).FArrows on DR,DL, DMC, MCs and AML/R. BArrows on the DCs.

Starting team (typical, tend to rotate players here and there):

GK: Valdes

DR: Alves

DCs: Caceres, Puyol

DL: Abidal

DMC:Toure

MCs: Xavi, Keita (all around player with long shot) or Gudjohnsen (if I want to pump balls into the area to someone who arrives from 2nd line)

AML: Iniesta (training for that position)

AMR: Messi

DC: Eto'o

Team tactics:

Mentality: just on offensive

Passing: just on short

Tempo: I switch between slow and high to mix between high-possession style of play and short "fast" bursts of play.

Width: Normal

Closing Down: on 14

Creativity: Normal

PlayMaker (Xavi) and offside checkboxes on. Feed to targetman is run to ball or to the feet (depends on the other side style of defence)

Player tactics. Sliders I' don't mention are on team or normal setting.

GK: Normal mentality, CD own area , no through balls,no to FRs...in short no to everything.

DR: All out offensive mentality (it's Alves after all), FRs, RwB, Often center, center from -mixed. Team CD.

DL: Normal mentality (abidal wont' go up that much). FRs, Often center. Center from deep. Team CD

DCs: Normal mentality, no FRs, no Rwb, no centers. CD 2 notches below Normal.

DMC: Mentality 2 notches over Normal. no centers. Team CD

Playmaker MC (Xavi): Mentality on team setting. FRs often, play through balls often. Keep the ball, and freedom to roam around the pitch. Team CD. Creativity to high. Passes to Mixed.

"2nd line-offensive" MC: mentality one notch over team setting. FRs often, play through balls often. Team CD

AMR: Mentality 4 notches over team. FRs often, RwB often, Centres often. Center from byline. Free play, creativity to maximum (this is Messi) Team CD.

AML: Team mentality. FRs often, RwB often, Centres often, Center from Mixed, high creativity. Team CD.

DC: team mentality. FRs often, rest to team or normal.

What I want with this tactic:

-Emulate Barcelona's style of pressure all around the pitch, stealing balls high in midfield, and turn the game into a possession monologue of slow paced construction of play; always with some bursts of very high-paced short passing style to surprise the other side now and then.

-Having Alves run up the pitch to the same byline as he usually does while messi cuts to the middle

-Having Xavi (or Iniesta, or whoever plays there with the required skills) being the main channel connecting the defence and the offensive line.

-Having a forward line to "pin" the enemy defensive line so the player coming from the midfield (usually keita or gudjohnssen but sometimes xavi as well) can break in and smash some goals in.

-Having Messi being Messi .

-Having a strong pair of DCs with the assistance of the DMC to close the other team's approach through the center of the attack.

-having a strong wing defence with fullbacks and assistance from the AML/R

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I get with this tactic:

-High possession and a playstyle close to what I want. Patient construction of play when i set Tempo to Slow, and very fast slow passing play now and then (tend to lose more balls then, but its to be expected)

-Pressure is far from what I want. Team won't press as a whole, specially if the otehr team channels their play through the wings. Even on the center, the other team's MCs now and then sit around keeping the ball and doing short passes to the other MC and my players will simply stay there watching.

-Don't get the 2nd "offensive" midfielder to go into the box as much as I'd like him to when I'm in possession of the ball.

-Alves goes up now and then, but not as much as I'd like him though (gotta admit that the times he goes up, he looks like the real one )

-Messi isn't messi . He plays allright, he rarely misses passes and dribbles now and then, but it's rarely getting more than a 7. And i'ts hard to feed him with balls and don't know why (tried making him playmaker, chanelling the team's play trhough the right, everything, he won't receive too many balls no matter what).

-Defence is OK in the middle (could be better I guess, but given how many goals I conceded in '08 because my DCs-DMC triangle failed to work,I'm happy with it)...but on the flanks is another story.

Without being weak, my defence on the flanks is done by only two players: the fullbacks. I want the AMR/L to assist them when the team is defending, but the AMR/L will stay up high, rarely going down in the pitch.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bassically my questions are how to:

1-increase the chance of the DR going up. I have a DR who is listed in the game as "usually goes up", an all out offensive mentality, and a FArrow, yet I see him going up...3 or 4 times per match, at the most.

2-set up a good team pressure to disturb the other team's play creation in the last 3rd of their own side and stealing the ball there.

3-increase the times the ball goes through a given player (Messi, in this case). Targetman could work?...playmaker didn't.

4-How to force the AMR/Ls to help the fullbacks when in defence. Lowering their mentality? (then they won't help in attack as they should). Turning them into MR/Ls? (same)...no idea here.

5- How to achieve the MC I want to come in from 2nd line to do it more often and more deeply? (now he usually doesn't go inside the other team's box, hard to score goals that way...)

Thanks in advance.

Thing is you have literally everyone on fwr, when you do this, they just hurl themselves forward on every chance that they have. If you want your fullback to make those kind of runs you want you may want to consider one MC at least on mixed runs. Fullbacks in FM09 also almost always make those runs when the ball is in the opponents halves. I have a similar tactic with a rampaging fullback who wreaks havoc as the AMR cuts inside to give defenders a bigger nightmare...to do that consider putting Messi on free role, rwb often and FWR mixed...that way he uses his skill to beat a player.

Looking at your aggressive settings I'm surprised you aren't conceding a lot of goals. You have told your wingers to "go forth and conquer" with the settings you've set. I would give them slightly lower attacking mentalities..16 should be fine. Closing down for them should be max. In fact I think your closing down could be too low. Try making them match your mentalities or even one or two notches higher.

You will get attacked on your flanks, eventually the AI will play a counterattacking formation against you and you will concede. To avoid that think about how you may want to tell some of your players to make mixed forward runs. You can't have your cake and eat it too. FM09 is realistic in one sense, if you want marauding wingers then you leave yourself open. I would seriously think of using tight marking on your wingers.

Leave playmaker out for messi, focus on right flank would be a better option, and make sure the players use the right passing patterns. If you want to release messi clean each time consider removing TTB on the right fullback, that way he launches up to make crosses and tell the MC to play TTB often, that way two things could happen...

1. Fullback rampages down..to cross

2, Fullback passes to MC who releases Messi.

The MCs will be box to box if your team has the right width settings and tempo and if you are playing high enough up the pitch.

I would just like to point out for those having trouble with working out what to do with arrows:

Stop thinking of the "arrows" in FM09 as arrows in the FM08 sense. If you are, you're just going to confuse yourself. They aren't arrows. They're just whatever the player's forward runs settings are. Think of them as FWRs that you can see on the "chalk board" and not as arrows. I think you'll find it easier to read your tactical decisions if you do.

Whats your formation? If its an attacking tactic and you have a couple of players on free roles you should get some good attacking patterns.

Essentially I've been playing 4-4-2. Only free role is Gerrard in the middle. I have Alonso with a b-arrow to try and plug the gap. Wingers are farrow'd, and my mentality is staggered - I recently pushed DC's to about 8, FB to 9/10, MC 12/13 respectively, ML/MR 15, SC 16

I also have my defence pushing up quite high, I think it's about 15?

Personally I don't _see_ any issue with a gap in behind my midfield - it is just that Sammy Lee is constantly pointing out and if what he is saying is in fact accurate, being a central midfielder myself I can appreciate what it means to have a gap. More work for everyone involved and a lot more attacking freedom for the opponents.

Update - having the mentality set much closer - 1 instead of 2, seems to have closed the gap

Has anyone tried with global settings when it comes to mentality and closing down?

I really dont like to micromanage those two settings via players. I want to change the style of my team under games just via global settings....

And I've noticed that depending on the width, it dictates how the wide players play their game; for example

wide = both wingers stick to the sidelines

normal = winger on the 'play' side of the pitch is wide, other winger drifts in

Not liking the new tactics. I can see why arrows had to go, but the formations have become way too rigid now. I played John Fleck on the left and Victor Moses on the right, gave them both a lot of creative freedom, free roles, and told them to only cross 'mixed'. Yet not once in the entire 90 mins did either of them drift in off their respective flank. Put them as AMCs and all they do is stick in the middle. Players like them (creative AM RLCs) are useless now, if you're going to play wingers may as well buy fast guys who can cross since they're just going to stay out wide no matter what you ask them to do. They really shouldn't have done away with the side arrows at least.

Are you playing with width as wide?

Put them on the flank and tell them to play narrow. I think that'll force them to run in

Yes, try that, set the width to normal or narrow and throw them on the flank. I've been watching Robben make darting runs in and out off the flank. I have a feeling that narrow width will force them to take the ball from outside in.

no width is slightly less than normal

I seem to have one good game and then one horror of a game. Cant seem to find any consistency.

They should be drifting in then. Are you watching extended or key commentary?

Am I right to think that NOT using arrows at all is a better option on FM09? I just restarted a new save with Arsenal. In my last save I played a straight 442 with farrows on my wingers and, depending on opposition, also on my full backs. This appeard to make them really, really tired even before HT! Since then I've changed to a 4-2-3-1 tactic, using 2 neutral MC's and 3 attacking midfielders. I've removed all the arrows (even on my defensive minded mid and my CB's who used to have barrows) and the problem seems to be much less of a problem really. To me it seems the players can't cope with all the forward running, and I removed my defensive arrows as I want Touré/Gallas to act like they do IRL, which is they do get forward now and then. My DMC (or actuall MC) should be more box-to-box, so I figured I'd let him choose when to go forward and when not to...am I right to remove the barrow then? I have him set a notch above defensive in mentality. Of course my hope is he will cover for any CB that might move up the field. My problem with the gap is gone though, thanks to your good explanation of that problem.

So does AMR/L really need arrows though, since they are already high up the pitch as their starting position? But when playing a 4-4-2 or maybe a 4-4-1-1, will my wingers actually go forward much if they don't have arrows and actually support the lone striker? Or will they really need arrows when playing further down the pitch? I've seen the team score plenty of goals this time around and I just hope it will hold up when the season begins.

Yes, try that, set the width to normal or narrow and throw them on the flank. I've been watching Robben make darting runs in and out off the flank. I have a feeling that narrow width will force them to take the ball from outside in.

no the thing is that neither of them is too quick or great at dribbling. I dont want them to cut in with the ball, I want them to sometimes drift in without it and participate in the play. I'll try lowering the width even more and see what happens.