Will not buy again.

I was a loyal buyer of CM/FM series since 2002.

But 2008 edition is going to be last that I bought.

1.I am not tactical genius and not going to spend days trying to create descent tactic.After all it is just a game.

Playing tactic that I always played before (diamond) simply does not work

2. There is no scout tool for this year. even though it was made by third party , if SI interested in more sales they should provide it.

Please let me know if SI is going to comply with such requests. I am sure that many of your customers agree with me.

respectfully

buyer of football manager series(possible former)

Alex .

P.S. I am also very dissappointed that i was not able to cotact SI by email.

I was a loyal buyer of CM/FM series since 2002.

But 2008 edition is going to be last that I bought.

1.I am not tactical genius and not going to spend days trying to create descent tactic.After all it is just a game.

Playing tactic that I always played before (diamond) simply does not work

2. There is no scout tool for this year. even though it was made by third party , if SI interested in more sales they should provide it.

Please let me know if SI is going to comply with such requests. I am sure that many of your customers agree with me.

respectfully

buyer of football manager series(possible former)

Alex .

P.S. I am also very dissappointed that i was not able to cotact SI by email.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Please let me know if SI is going to comply with such requests. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They won't.

They make the game. Not third party cheating utilities.

I'm sure SI will be most dissapointed that they're losing customers from the special needs fanbase.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

2. There is no scout tool for this year. even though it was made by third party , if SI interested in more sales they should provide it.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

try miniscout.

http://mxamster.googlepages.com/

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

Playing tactic that I always played before (diamond) simply does not work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, my current tactic in FM08 is a diamond midfield, and I'm having more success than I've ever had in the history of SI management games.

So it must just be your tactics.

The game is about managing a football team in as real a world as possible. What sense would it make if you could just go in, pick a standard 4-4-2 and not be tested in any way? You want easy then play LMA or FIFA manager etc. Either that or pick up 101 kiddy games from Tescos.

Besides, the game isn't really difficult from what I've seen.

As for scouting tools; why should SI spend time they could use to make FM as successful as possible to make it?

They shouldn't is the short answer.

Your requests are unreasonable and you act as if they should make the game to comply with your wishes alone. You say respectfully but your post is rude and arrogant.

I'm sure you could contact SI by email if you looked hard enough for a contact address. Did you or did you look at the top of the forum, not see one and decide to whine?

Why do people expect everything in life to be easy?

Try Fifa Manager or something with more pictures and less work.

Challenging stuff.

Ahem.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

P.S. I am also very dissappointed that i was not able to cotact SI by email. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, and.. I just noticed this. I couldn't let it slip.

1. Go to the SI Games website (http://www.sigames.com/)

2. At the very top of the page is a link that says "Contact". Click it.

3. Click the email address shown.

4. Type out email. Preferably threaten that if your demands are not met, you will hold them to ransom, or something. It's the only way they will accede to those requests.

5. Guaranteed personal gain at the behest of others!

ALTERNATIVELY:

1. Make no attempt to find contact email address.

2. Go to forum and mention that you are very disappointed that you were not able to contact SI by email.

3. Wait for forum users to admit their responsibility for your lack of attempt to find contact address, and offer you their sympathies.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

I was a loyal buyer of CM/FM series since 2002.

But 2008 edition is going to be last that I bought.

1.I am not tactical genius and not going to spend days trying to create descent tactic. After all it is just a game.

Playing tactic that I always played before (diamond) simply does not work

2. There is no scout tool for this year. even though it was made by third party , if SI interested in more sales they should provide it.

Please let me know if SI is going to comply with such requests. I am sure that many of your customers agree with me.

respectfully

buyer of football manager series(possible former)

Alex .

P.S. I am also very dissappointed that i was not able to cotact SI by email. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all -

Right - you're first point about your tactics and that you can't be bothered creating a decent tactic - that's your fault.

1-0 to SI

Playing a tactic that you've always played before and it doesn't work, but you can't be bothered to spend time creating the decent tactic, as you have stated in the first point - erm, that's your fault.

2-0 to SI

Regarding the scout tool, I have never actually used it but have read posts saying that it is useful for a new starter. Ahem, why do you need it? You have made the comment about being a 'loyal' (I find this hard to believe) buyer of this great Football Management series, so surely you have gained enough experience from playing the game to know how to find those gems yourself (no disrespect to anyone who using the scouting tool) - so once again, this is your fault.

3-0 to SI - looking comfortable, could it be another ridiculous high-scoring game?

As B.Stinson has pointed out, SI make the game itself and not any additional material that can be used on the game, skins, graphics, FM Genie Scout, etc. Oh, and please provide us with the statistics that many of us agree with your requests, because looking at the posts on this topic, SI seem to be winning easily, in fact...

It's 4-0 to SI!

I'm pretty sure that the guys at SI wouldn't want to receive an email from yourself with the way that you are criticising the game in a destructive manner, especially with the way that you have rudely posted this post.

Keep up the good work Sports Interactive!

From a LOYAL Football Manager fan!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was a loyal buyer of CM/FM series since 2002. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. contact@sigames.com does not work

2. I am surprised how many a-holes are here.i guess those people just have nothing to do.

3. as a customer i can demand service for the money that i pay and if my demans are not met just not to pay.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

2. I am surprised how many a-holes are here.i guess those people just have nothing to do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing better to do than respond to your thread? Forgive me for doing so, I had originally thought it worthy of my esteemed attention. Please disregard my original post mentioning that I had achieved great success with my diamond midfield. I'm sure I was wrong. After all, I'm an a-hole for having nothing better to do than respond to a thread.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Nothing better to do than respond to your thread? Forgive me for doing so, I had originally thought it worthy of my esteemed attention. Please disregard my original post mentioning that I had achieved great success with my diamond midfield. I'm sure I was wrong. After all, I'm an a-hole for having nothing better to do than respond to a thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry i did not mean everyone. Your post was one of very few here that made sence.

Thank you.

to be fair I can agree with where the op is coming from.

I've been a long time buyer of cm through its transition to fm and now personally wsm, and I just don't feel the series is evolving as rapidly as I would like.

Sure thats a personal expectation, but I feel SI spends more time in data updates which is a substantial time and resource sink, rather than evolving the core engine.

I don't envy the development cycle considering the yearly releases, but year on year I just seem to be growing more jaded with the subsequent offering and necessary patches.

Don't get me entirely wrong here, I still believe in the product and its creators, I just haven't been blown away in quite some time now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

I was a loyal buyer of CM/FM series since 2002. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

2. I am surprised how many a-holes are here.i guess those people just have nothing to do.

3. as a customer i can demand service for the money that i pay and if my demans are not met just not to pay.

QUOTE]

Do you consider yourself an a-hole then? As you are also replying to a reply on your thread? Ladies and gentleman, we have found the a-hole.

And as for your second point, the answer is simple - don't buy the game! Better still, go and create your own Football Management sim and include all the scouting tools and third-party stuff and we'll prove to you that the third-party add-ons aren't the key factors in why SI sells so many copies of Football Manager each year!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">3. as a customer i can demand service for the money that i pay and if my demans are not met just not to pay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've paid for a license to use the product as SI provide it. If you don't agree with that then you should reject the Terms and Services when installing the game.

Have you tried using the 8.0.2 patch to see if it improves your playing experience?

There's unoffiial scouting tools available on the internet for you to look for players. If you don't want to use an unofficial one you need to use the Scouting system that SI provide - the one that's in the game. If you don't think that's good enough then why not load the editor and make a list of all the best players, or even edit your own players to be the best?

As for everyone else in the thread, lay off the guy - he's allowed to tell of his experience without everyone trying to boost their forum rep on him.

I agree with Akter. There is no need to bait.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">1.I am not tactical genius and not going to spend days trying to create descent tactic.After all it is just a game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't football just a game?

FM is a management simulation, and all really successful modern day managers are consumate tacticians. FM, although just a game, reflects this. If you want to be any good, learn how to design a semi-decent tactic. If that isn't for you, then nor is FM.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">i guess those people just have nothing to do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, I know for sure that I don't...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

I was a loyal buyer of CM/FM series since 2002.

But 2008 edition is going to be last that I bought.

1.I am not tactical genius and not going to spend days trying to create descent tactic.After all it is just a game.

Playing tactic that I always played before (diamond) simply does not work

2. There is no scout tool for this year. even though it was made by third party , if SI interested in more sales they should provide it.

Please let me know if SI is going to comply with such requests. I am sure that many of your customers agree with me.

respectfully

buyer of football manager series(possible former)

Alex .

P.S. I am also very dissappointed that i was not able to cotact SI by email. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am guessing that you have already done this, by virtue of you having been a member of the forums for a few years, but have a root through both the tactics & training forum and the good players & team guide forums.

With regards to the tactics, I appreciate your anger at the game, as I too have found the latest incarnation extremely frustrating as my tactics now appear horrendously flawed (since the patch I no longer seem to be able to defend; and as a "manager" who likes to build a tactic up from the defence, this is annoying). However, see if you can find a tactic model for the 4-4-2 diamond that you could try out, or perhaps look at alternatives that you could implement whilst still signing the sort of players you are interested in (perhaps a 4-3-1-2, or a 4-4-1-1).

Similarly, if you like knowing who the young starlets are without discovering them through the in-game scouting system (which I would personally recommend), then check the good players guides. Obviously the views of "good" players are completely subjective as opposed to the figurative nature of a scouting tool, but this way you may find a player that will perform brilliantly for you, who you otherwise might not have signed because he doesn't fit the CA or PA requirements you were looking for.

If this all fails, trade in 2008 for another game at your local shop (or sell on e-bay) and wait for 2009 to come out. Every once in a while a franchise will produce a game that wont appeal to you, because the tiny changes strongly affect the way you play, but because the fundamental system of the game stays the same (relatively) the next incarnation could well be a gem in your eyes (but not necessarily in mine, or anyone elses). I only say this because I was very disappointed with 2007, and found myself reverting back to the ambiguity of CM 03/04.

If nothing helps, then c'est la vie.

Uhm, I play with a three different formations depending on the match. All three of them have a midfield diamond and I've been using it for all three of my saves: Swansea City AFC, Sporting de Gijon, and Notts County. So if anything, I can at least attest that your claim of a midfield diamond doesn't work. It depends on your players.

As far as a scout tool goes, there are 3rd party ones out there but I think looking through free agents and sending scouts abroad is more intuitive than having a tool pick and choose players for you.

Im glad i downloaded it, and didnt support si with a single dime.. What a bad game!! I wonder if the creators even know what soccer is.. The offsides just pop up completely random, and it seems to be easier to score on a shot from 30 meters than a 1on1 with the goalie.. Before the 09 version comes out, si should really go watch some soccer games or so.

Bye!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was a loyal buyer of CM/FM series since 2002. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. contact@sigames.com does not work

2. I am surprised how many a-holes are here.i guess those people just have nothing to do.

3. as a customer i can demand service for the money that i pay and if my demans are not met just not to pay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That one made me laugh.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by whoknows:

Im glad i downloaded it, and didnt support si with a single dime.. What a bad game!! I wonder if the creators even know what soccer is.. The offsides just pop up completely random, and it seems to be easier to score on a shot from 30 meters than a 1on1 with the goalie.. Before the 09 version comes out, si should really go watch some soccer games or so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's "Football" you bloody pirate.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

The game is about managing a football team in as real a world as possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that so you stupid ****? Then please tell me what sense it make when Manchester United ask me to pay 101 mill £ for Gabriel Heinze in Football Manager 2007!

The way all of the people here blindly and rabidly jump on anyone that says a bad word about the game is really embarassing. Every attack on the OP here is actually quite silly and easily dismissable with a few words, but is it really worth it? You don't care and you're just trying to agitate him. The PR you guys offer on this forum is something that DEFINITELY isn't helping SI in the least. You're only turning more people away and not benefitting the company buy defending them belligerently.

I still play the game most everyday, but it HAS problems. EVERYONE can admit that, and still more honest men will admit that is has quite more drastic/numerous problems than any previous version. People paid money for the game and SHOULD be disappointed to a degree; complaining to the creators about what they dislike about this version--preferably privately or on the companies official forum (!!)--is the least they can do. People that work for companies generally DO appreciate criticisms, it helps them fix the problems and create a better product in the future. This particular type of thread lets them know just how dire the problem is becoming--and I know it's not the first thread like it, but the number of them on this site lets the company know just how serious the problem is becoming..

I honestly imagine you guys standing around together and highfiving eachother like children everytime you lambaste someone that has a genuine complaint.

I've never made a thread here asking for assisstance, but thank you to the people who tried to offer this guy--and others--genuine help.

The way I see it, is that FM08 is more challenging than any other version, and those that are not enjoying it, pure and simply are just not very good at the game, and just pick a team/tactic/formation stick with it and just play the matches regardless.

I love the tactics side, and am finding FM08 the best version in the series so far, and am getting more reward from the success of my Norwich team in this version than any other.

Like others have said, if you don't want challening games that's your fault not SIs, so play Fifa or CM instead.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crossriver:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

The game is about managing a football team in as real a world as possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that so you stupid ****? Then please tell me what sense it make when Manchester United ask me to pay 101 mill £ for Gabriel Heinze in Football Manager 2007! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's no need for language like that is there? A few asterixs doesn't cover up the fact that it's abusive. You've already been warned for abuse once...I expect they won't accept much more.

As for your point, well it's kind of negated by the fact that I said, and I'll quote:

"The game is about managing a football team in as real a world as possible."

I bolded the bit you might want to read again.

Besides, maybe they didn't want to sell Heinze so they gave you a price you wouldn't pay. If you paid it then more fool you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crossriver:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

The game is about managing a football team in as real a world as possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that so you stupid ****? Then please tell me what sense it make when Manchester United ask me to pay 101 mill £ for Gabriel Heinze in Football Manager 2007! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's no need for language like that is there? A few asterixs doesn't cover up the fact that it's abusive. You've already been warned for abuse once...I expect they won't accept much more.

As for your point, well it's kind of negated by the fact that I said, and I'll quote:

"The game is about managing a football team in as real a world as possible."

I bolded the bit you might want to read again.

Besides, maybe they didn't want to sell Heinze so they gave you a price you wouldn't pay. If you paid it then more fool you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blah blah blah! Ok let´s say that they didn't want to sell him. Then why not simple put it this way: At the moment we do not want to sell Gabriel Heinze at any cost but when we do you would be the first to know! is that too much to ask for?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ghoulalt:

The way all of the people here blindly and rabidly jump on anyone that says a bad word about the game is really embarassing. Every attack on the OP here is actually quite silly and easily dismissable with a few words, but is it really worth it? You don't care and you're just trying to agitate him. The PR you guys offer on this forum is something that DEFINITELY isn't helping SI in the least. You're only turning more people away and not benefitting the company buy defending them belligerently.

I still play the game most everyday, but it HAS problems. EVERYONE can admit that, and still more honest men will admit that is has quite more drastic/numerous problems than any previous version. People paid money for the game and SHOULD be disappointed to a degree; complaining to the creators about what they dislike about this version--preferably privately or on the companies official forum (!!)--is the least they can do. People that work for companies generally DO appreciate criticisms, it helps them fix the problems and create a better product in the future. This particular type of thread lets them know just how dire the problem is becoming--and I know it's not the first thread like it, but the number of them on this site lets the company know just how serious the problem is becoming..

I honestly imagine you guys standing around together and highfiving eachother like children everytime you lambaste someone that has a genuine complaint.

I've never made a thread here asking for assisstance, but thank you to the people who tried to offer this guy--and others--genuine help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm happy to offer help as much as I can. If a post is well written and well thought out then I will add my thoughts to help as much as I can. I have done often in the past and will continue to do so for those deserving.

The OPs post was not thought out, well written or necessary. I found him rude and mocking of the hard work and effort that SI put in to this game every year.

You may be right that the game is not perfect, but it is far from the disastrous state that 95% of the negative posts on these forums claim it is.

Besides if you have a concern about the game the way to go about getting your point accepted is not to ram abuse down the throats of SI. They do not listen to demands that they must release soandso with the next game and they won't remove all their hard work on the tactical side of the game for a small minority of fans.

If the OP had come on here and asked nicely for tactical help he may have gotten it. If he had enquired as the the possibility of an improved scouting tool then he may have got it. He didn't; he jumped in head first with disrepectful 'gimmes'.

I suppose I am often overly sarcastic in my reply but that is a fault of my own. The OP has more faults than you seem to notice. There's also enough complaining about difficulty or lack of features that he could have added his thoughts to.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crossriver:

Blah blah blah! Ok let´s say that they didn't want to sell him. Then why not simple put it this way: At the moment we do not want to sell Gabriel Heinze at any cost but when we do you would be the first to know! is that too much to ask for? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because of the old scenario whereby a player will become upset if enquiries about him are downright refused perhaps. What happens to human managers can happen to AI managers too.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by whoknows:

Im glad i downloaded it, and didnt support si with a single dime.. What a bad game!! I wonder if the creators even know what soccer is.. The offsides just pop up completely random, and it seems to be easier to score on a shot from 30 meters than a 1on1 with the goalie.. Before the 09 version comes out, si should really go watch some soccer games or so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's FOOTBALL, you thieving ******, proper football not that crap rugby for girls you lot call football!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anagain:

I suppose I am often overly sarcastic in my reply but that is a fault of my own. The OP has more faults than you seem to notice. There's also enough complaining about difficulty or lack of features that he could have added his thoughts to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I apologize if I came off as such as well, just something I see on the forum everyday and have been thinking about replying for a long time--it's bothering.

I could've picked a better thread to do it in, I suppose, but I don't really notice anything wrong with what the OP said. Some people just can't use words on computers as well as others and might come off as arrogant or soemthing similar--no offense to Mudilo--but I don't think that was his intention at all.

He even sealed it 'respectfully'!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bratto17:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

I was a loyal buyer of CM/FM series since 2002. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

2. I am surprised how many a-holes are here.i guess those people just have nothing to do.

3. as a customer i can demand service for the money that i pay and if my demans are not met just not to pay.

QUOTE]

Do you consider yourself an a-hole then? As you are also replying to a reply on your thread? Ladies and gentleman, we have found the a-hole.

And as for your second point, the answer is simple - don't buy the game! Better still, go and create your own Football Management sim and include all the scouting tools and third-party stuff and we'll prove to you that the third-party add-ons aren't the key factors in why SI sells so many copies of Football Manager each year! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stop being abusive, or you will be on postmoderation .. that warning goes out to everyone else too.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

3. as a customer i can demand service for the money that i pay and if my demans are not met just not to pay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SI's involvement ends when you hand over the money. I wouldn't call any of us "customers". They owe you nothing. Buy the game. Get a refund in the required time-space if you don't like it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SWaRFeGa:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

3. as a customer i can demand service for the money that i pay and if my demans are not met just not to pay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SI's involvement ends when you hand over the money. I wouldn't call any of us "customers". They owe you nothing. Buy the game. Get a refund in the required time-space if you don't like it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Before anyone says that this isn't possible with PC games, I did it with CM a couple of years ago. I bought it to try it and it was bloody awful, took it back to the shop and they tried to say they didn't refund PC games because you were expected to DL patches.

Put simply noone can refuse a refund because of a reliance on someones ability to DL patches etc especially with a lot of peoples misgivings re: downloading etc. Walked out with my money back so it's perfectly within everyone who is disatisifieds ability to get their refund from the store.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">3. as a customer i can demand service for the money that i pay and if my demans are not met just not to pay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This isn't a snipe directed solely at the OP here, but this is typical of today's society. "If things aren't exactly as I want them to be, someone has screwed up somewhere". Or even "I want, therefore I am entitled."

So many posts on here can be translated as such.

PLEASE can we just concentrate on spotting actual bugs rather than pointing out game features that we simply don't like - or at least limit those to the wishlist thread?

I think SI have done a sterling job in fixing real issues like regens (am in 2017 and there are oodles of 180+ regens on my 802 game), and the only reason they haven't fixed the board confidence "bug" is because not enough people uploaded games with genuine problems - I never have because I haven't spotted it as an issue. In a game like FM there are near-infinite variables, so I don't expect the out of the box version to be perfect.

Come on, guys. The game is what it is. Point out bugs but if you don't like the bits that work, don't buy it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IMT:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by whoknows:

Im glad i downloaded it, and didnt support si with a single dime.. What a bad game!! I wonder if the creators even know what soccer is.. The offsides just pop up completely random, and it seems to be easier to score on a shot from 30 meters than a 1on1 with the goalie.. Before the 09 version comes out, si should really go watch some soccer games or so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's FOOTBALL, you thieving ******, proper football not that crap rugby for girls you lot call football!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Come on, guy. That's not what this thread is about. By all means berate him for copying, but forget about the fact that they call the sport different over there. In Australia, "football" can often refer to Aussie rules.

We don't need any of this "my country is better than yours" stuff in here. And besides, suggesting that American football is similar to rugby is pretty much impossible when you have watched a few games. It's like saying that pool and snooker are the same, when they're actually very, very different on all but a superficial level.

------

Anyway!

I think most of us in here agree that there's nothing wrong with complaining, not in the slightest. People are just upset with the tone and language used by Mudilo in his early posts. And likewise with crossriver.

Constructive criticism that is well thought out, and well written often gets a lot of people agreeing, as can been seen in most of the threads with a lot of responses. If you go down the list of topics, and click on the few highest-response threads, you'll see that quite often they are criticism threads of one sort or another, and that they start out with very well-made points.

We're not all blind fanboys here.

Just me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bratto17:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mudilo:

I was a loyal buyer of CM/FM series since 2002.

But 2008 edition is going to be last that I bought.

1.I am not tactical genius and not going to spend days trying to create descent tactic. After all it is just a game.

Playing tactic that I always played before (diamond) simply does not work

2. There is no scout tool for this year. even though it was made by third party , if SI interested in more sales they should provide it.

Please let me know if SI is going to comply with such requests. I am sure that many of your customers agree with me.

respectfully

buyer of football manager series(possible former)

Alex .

P.S. I am also very dissappointed that i was not able to cotact SI by email. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all -

Right - you're first point about your tactics and that you can't be bothered creating a decent tactic - that's your fault.

1-0 to SI

Playing a tactic that you've always played before and it doesn't work, but you can't be bothered to spend time creating the decent tactic, as you have stated in the first point - erm, that's your fault.

2-0 to SI

Regarding the scout tool, I have never actually used it but have read posts saying that it is useful for a new starter. Ahem, why do you need it? You have made the comment about being a 'loyal' (I find this hard to believe) buyer of this great Football Management series, so surely you have gained enough experience from playing the game to know how to find those gems yourself (no disrespect to anyone who using the scouting tool) - so once again, this is your fault.

3-0 to SI - looking comfortable, could it be another ridiculous high-scoring game?

As B.Stinson has pointed out, SI make the game itself and not any additional material that can be used on the game, skins, graphics, FM Genie Scout, etc. Oh, and please provide us with the statistics that many of us agree with your requests, because looking at the posts on this topic, SI seem to be winning easily, in fact...

It's 4-0 to SI!

I'm pretty sure that the guys at SI wouldn't want to receive an email from yourself with the way that you are criticising the game in a destructive manner, especially with the way that you have rudely posted this post.

Keep up the good work Sports Interactive!

From a LOYAL Football Manager fan! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are a very very stupid wannabe fanboy!

This thread should be renamed "Much Ado About Nothing" by a mod. Never have I seen such useless, senseless bashing. The OP mentioned nicely that the game was getting too complicated for him,fair enough. He requested a scouting tool which won't be done. And he couldn't find the contact e-mail. Then this thread gets filled by a handful of sensible people trying to explain the circumstances and lots of others swearing and complaining at each other just for the hell of it. Unbelievable. I think he has a right to return his product and/or not buy it again. Obscenities and insults will hardly improve the situation for anyone.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dreaded Walrus:

Anyway!

I think most of us in here agree that there's nothing wrong with complaining, not in the slightest. People are just upset with the tone and language used by Mudilo in his early posts. And likewise with crossriver.

Constructive criticism that is well thought out, and well written often gets a lot of people agreeing, as can been seen in most of the threads with a lot of responses. If you go down the list of topics, and click on the few highest-response threads, you'll see that quite often they are criticism threads of one sort or another, and that they start out with very well-made points.

We're not all blind fanboys here.

Just me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said. Whilst I haven't experienced a lot of the bugs that have been mentioned, I still udnerstand why people would be annoyed about them if they think they have experienced them.

I'm all for constructive criticism and structured debate about the game and its "problems" but more often than not a thread is started by someone just trying to get other peoples backs up and being a nuisance in the process.

The bugs forum is there for a reason and I implore people to use it because i'm fed up reading thread after thread in GD about the bugs and if you reprot it properly it will hopefully help all of us and provide a better game in 09.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Playing tactic that I always played before (diamond) simply does not work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course not. IRL, no team plays the same tactics match after match - they'd be very easy to defeat if they did. More than any previous version, FM08 is about on-going decision-making. So, your tactics not only need to be tweaked from match to match, you also have to pay close attention during the match itself so as to respond to changes made by the AI, just as a manager has to do IRL.

If you really didn't ever intend to buy the game again, I doubt you would have taken the time to post here. FM is very much a product for a niche market, and SI understand that. People deciding the game is not for them is just part of the territory.

So, before giving up, I would urge you to head on over to the Tactics forum and check out wwfan's Tactical Theorems and Frameworks thread for FM08. It will not give you a "killer tactic" - those just don't exist anymore - but it explains quite clearly how the game works, what some good approaches might be, and what a good tactical starting point would be.

Just a suggestion.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gunnerfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Playing tactic that I always played before (diamond) simply does not work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course not. IRL, no team plays the same tactics match after match - they'd be very easy to defeat if they did. More than any previous version, FM08 is about on-going decision-making. So, your tactics not only need to be tweaked from match to match, you also have to pay close attention during the match itself so as to respond to changes made by the AI, just as a manager has to do IRL.

If you really didn't ever intend to buy the game again, I doubt you would have taken the time to post here. FM is very much a product for a niche market, and SI understand that. People deciding the game is not for them is just part of the territory.

So, before giving up, I would urge you to head on over to the Tactics forum and check out wwfan's Tactical Theorems and Frameworks thread for FM08. It will not give you a "killer tactic" - those just don't exist anymore - but it explains quite clearly how the game works, what some good approaches might be, and what a good tactical starting point would be.

Just a suggestion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

of course.

"the problem" with tactics in FM is that you must make those tactical changes in match, which players IRE do automaticly (or by pre match plan). for example you must tweak your tacics when opponents go from thier def to attacking style.

if there is one aspect of FM08 which has improved, it's that you can't have one- tactic- that- suits- them- all, anymore. nor the super tactic. and that's what makes this game more realistic and more chalanging. you don't have to go to tactics forum to see what's wrong with your tactics, watch your matches on full, try to figure out how AI's playing, what you're doing wrong...

Mitja - no, you don't have to go to the tactics forum, but wwfan's thread does provide a cogent explanation of how tactics work and, more importantly, how they have changed over the past few years. That's good information to have if someone is claiming to have been a loyal FM buyer for years but now "will not buy again".

What it comes down to, of course, is that having continued success in a game like FM over the years can give one a sense that they really understand the game of football. Now, with in-game decision-making taking on so much more importance, many are finding out they don't understand the game as well as they thought. Negative reactions to that are to be expected.

the game is unreal and it is not made for people who havent a clue about soccer. maybe you should try fifa or one of them where no knowledge is needed. imo this game is tops.

Lets be honest the games fun factor is not even close to where it was during CM2 & CM4.

I agree with all thats been said about the tactics, but my main gripe is the speed, I can't afford a top of the range computer but even with all leagues loaded in England & Scotland, it's painfully slow even on lowest detail levels, I'm sat waiting about for 5-10 minutes between each game, and then there are 5-6 screens to get through to start the damn match, and then I lose anyway so have to think what the hell is wrong with my tactics for the next half hour and then lose again and then just give up.

This has been the case with FM08 anyway, very dissapointed.

thats CM3 not CM4.

SI is trying to move in right direction with ME development.

When they remove bugs that are present and are mentioned by wwfan in posts here :

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=...=100663entry100663

and here:

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=7442&st=25

All that stuff (positive and negative)mentioned in those discussion , do contribute to unusual increase of goals,which leads to assumption that defensive aspect is broken.

Without those problems game would be good and challenging.From what i gathered , that is an aim for 09.

It's too late for 08 to be changed at this point, but at least based on that, people should look forward to 09.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark_lcfc:

Lets be honest the games fun factor is not even close to where it was during CM2 & CM4. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Everyone enjoys different things.

To you, this may not be as fun as CM2 or CM4 because you enjoy the ability to get through a season quickly, without having to spend ages on tactics and the like.

To others, this may be the most enjoyable version, as they enjoy the tactical battle, and working out how to exploit weaknesses in the opposition team, neutralising their threats and the like.

Neither you nor them are wrong, and neither are either of you being dishonest. You both just like different things, and you are looking for different things in a management series.

It's like some people prefer how in-depth Morrowind is, and they don't mind that the combat system isn't as good as in Oblivion, while to some people the combat system is the most important part of the game, and they don't mind it being a lot less of a freeform game than Morrowind.

Different tastes for different people. SI won't be able to keep everyone happy.

how about a bit of perspective from everyone, sometimes people dont want to spend ages and ages building up tactics like football manager is the only thing they have in life, some people can make them really quickly thanks to years of playing the game and tweaking, yes si has made undoubtedly 1 of its poorer versions this year, however like every team they cannot be consistently on top every season, an off-season can happen and shouldnt be treated like si are useless idiots who dont know they are doing, things go wrong, its not like they have tried to make it go wrong, it just has.

however if the player is not willing to invest any time whatsoever then this is a shortcoming of his own, yet there is no reason to throw vitriol at him because its not how he wants to play the game.

we should at least wait until fm09 and see how that goes before making a judgement on the football manager series as a whole