2D view a big step backwards aesthetically

First off, i've been a bit skeptical about the new 3D layer on the match engine - and as I expected the various little glitches and gaps in animation are just enough to damage my suspension of disbelief (additionally, even in 'low' detail it runs like a dog on my PC that can play the likes of Half Life 2 like a dream).

'But this won't be a problem, I can just switch to 2D view and give the 3D another go after patches or in next year's when it's been tightened up a bit', I thought. Turns out that, despite the last 4 or 5 CM/FM games having a clear, concise overhead 2D pitch view, FM09 seems to have taken a huge step backwards in this repect. You get two options, "2D Classic" and "2D". Both have the pitch itself taking up a much smaller amount of screen space than in previous versions, making everything that little bit less clear and well-defined. I like to run FM games in a window so I can read and browse the net, occasionally watch videos etc at the same time - and in a window (a 1024*768 window on an 1152*864 desktop, so certainly not a small window by any means) you cannot read the player numbers on their 'shirt' (i.e blob) at all on "2D Classic", and while you just about can on "2D" view if you squint, the football itself is terrible - you simply cannot see it if a player in a white or yellow shirt has possession.

I would hope you would consider patching in an added option that gives a slightly larger amount of screen space to the pitch on 2D views, because as it is, despite the match engine itself being a step forward, the graphical representation of that engine has taken a needless step backwards.

Hi Fisher,

Thanks for your feedback and comments. Have you tried running the 2D Classic view in full screen mode? This removes the Tree Menu to the left hand side and much of the clutter around the pitch giving you much more space and might be what you're looking for?

Hi Fisher,

Thanks for your feedback and comments. Have you tried running the 2D Classic view in full screen mode? This removes the Tree Menu to the left hand side and much of the clutter around the pitch giving you much more space and might be what you're looking for?

Thankyou for the quick response Neil

I have, and it is an improvement, though I would much rather it was viable to run it in a window, as it has been for years - as I said, I rarely have *just* FMxx and no other programs on the go. Another issue is that 2D classic actually lags on my PC in much the same way as "elevated", for example does - unacceptable to me as this is something incredibly undemanding graphically and that has always run flawlessly on earlier versions. "2D" runs much smoother than "2D classic" but I can't see myself using this view long term - the match ball is farcically small and badly defined against certain common shirt colours, and the 'player blobs' seem very ugly compared with the classic view.

I didn't mean "Full Screen", rather I mean "TV Mode" which is an option that you can use, even when the game is in a Windowed Mode. Did you try that?

no actually, will give it a go in my next friendly and post the results here

Can we get a 'doops' for Fisher?

I was having the same thoughts as Fisher regarding the 2d presentation, but fortunately I was wrong. I didnt like the 3d, but as long as the 2d is working as well as it is, I dont really care as the rest of the game is mint.

Ok, i've tried TV View and it's an improvement, but having any information on screen (i'm not demanding here, I just want my teams' stats I.E rating and phys.condition) means you HAVE to obscure part of the pitch, and constantly drag it away from where the play is. Coupled with the poor performance technically (really shouldn't be any lag on a 2D overhead view, never has been before but it's really noticeable here. given that it's running on the same engine there's no excuse for such poor optimization. Remember there are players who can't run the 3D mode, who by definition will mostly have worse PCs than mine - the game is going to be barely playable for them) and i'm really having second thoughts about buying this game. You should never be able to look at a feature of the game and say it is comfortably worse than it's predecessor, yet the 2D matchday interface is worse-performing and worse aesthetically than any previous SI game since the introduction of 2D visual feedback. Might just be FML for me this year, in the short term at least.

from what i saw of it last night i agree with Fisher, if can only run the game in 2d then its a big disappointment the changes to that part of the game. pitch is too small, the tv mode i dont like.....................and why oh why is there only one slider for match speed/highlights, annoying!!!

from what i saw of it last night i agree with Fisher, if can only run the game in 2d then its a big disappointment the changes to that part of the game. pitch is too small, the tv mode i dont like.....................and why oh why is there only one slider for match speed/highlights, annoying!!!

I agree!! I haven't played FM08 for a while since I uninstalled it, and I forgot that there was supposed to be 2 different sliders!! Now there's only one, and frankly, that kinda sucks. But the rest of the game is ok!

Have to agree with fisher. I can't run the 3D engine on my laptop, so I switched to 2D TV mode, and the widgets strike me as pointless as they cut off parts of the pitch. Surely this is a bad design? If the pitch was ever so slightly smaller you could position the boxes at the end and not ovscure it. As it is, wherever you place the box it cuts out the action. I think it's a very good idea in theory, but in practice it doesn't work.

Mark, I have to say that is one of the most unhelpful posts I have ever seen from an SI representative....a company I have come to expect glowing support from.

Just because your 2D on your laptop has no issues in this age of extreme multi-technological platforms and configurations, doesn't mean this fellow is not experiencing it.

I know this is slightly Off Topic, but When PES2009 and Far Cry 2 were released....they were apparently stringently tested and also had similar issues due to the complexities of some people's systems nowadays.

I really think that a reply of basically "Well, it works for me" is just no good enough.

Im playing on a proper PC and i find using 2d is not only alot slower this year, but is giving my graphics card a run for its money, making the fan turn on which never happens in previous FM games.

Im playing on a proper PC and i find using 2d is not only alot slower this year, but is giving my graphics card a run for its money, making the fan turn on which never happens in previous FM games.

Well that's to be expected really considering that no 3D acceleration was required for previous games (as such)

I've played a lot of 2D recently on my laptop with no performance overheads so I'm not sure I buy into your analysis.

Marc - I an only post my own experiences of course but I can assure you that the 2D performance speed and framerate-wise is very poor. I've bought every CM/FM game since the 96/97 edition, so have played every game since the 2D engine was first introduced. It's always run like a dream, really smooth. FM08 saw some very minor slowdown if I was running a lot of other programs at the same time, and fair enough - obviously it's a bit more RAM-intensive than 06 and 07, that's the cost of progress and it's no biggie. FM09 - given that the demo is quickstarts with one league only running it speeds along like an absolute dream outside of matches, processing quickly, bringing up anything I click on in a split second. In the matches, however, the highlights, whether displayed in 2D or 3D mode run extremely jerky, never fluid in the slightest. It's worse with the 'Main Stand' camera (because of the panning?) and 'best' in the very ugly "2D" mode with the flickering blobs and near-invisible ball, but it's always significantly less smooth than anything I've experienced on 08 or any other SI game. I'm disappointed because I can't see why the difference in 2D performance should be so great, obviously each version is a little more complex than the last but how can it perform so much worse with what seems like only the usual tweaks and improvements to the match engine itself? Especially given the FM Live match engine seeming very similar in terms of actual output running like a dream and, to a heathen like me, being a technical marvel in a sub-20MB game.

there's very little 'analysis' here to buy into - i'm simply reporting my experiences with the demo and with past versions for comparison, and of course trying out the helpful suggestions from your colleague Neil. Again, if this game displayed 2D mode as well as FM07 and 08 and ran as well or even nearly as well (in matches), you'd have a guaranteed purchase. As is I'll be sticking to FM Live and keeping an eye on the patch situation, see if performance improves.

i thought my computor is too slow to run it smoothly...but we're talking about 2d wiew (i turned 3d off)!! and i played 3d games on it, without problem...

basicly there's no difference how it runs on 3d and 2d on my computor, '2d TV mode' is looking awsome i must admit. but it looks so jumpy, it hearts my eyes, even brain.

The 2d modes work like a dream on a low spec laptop. Your pixel resolution is probably to blame for the small 2d screen.

The 2d modes work like a dream on a low spec laptop. Your pixel resolution is probably to blame for the small 2d screen.

ok, so what should i do? i'm playing in windowed mode.

should i change the resolution in game or what?

I couldn't agree more with Fisher. As I mention in my own thread, amongst other things; I can understand the 3D engine not running on my/other machines if Hardware won't allow, but the massive difference in the quality of the 2D view compared to previous FMs is frankly baffling. It runs like it's a 'work in progress'. Dots jerking and juddering around with no cohesion or fluidity. I'd love to know why they've even changed the 2D at all. Just leave it as it was and have it as an option to the new 3D engine. Instead they have 2 almost unwatchable match engines, that have ultimately decided whether I will buy the game or not.

The 2d modes work like a dream on a low spec laptop. Your pixel resolution is probably to blame for the small 2d screen.

Sorry, but that is rubbish.

My resolution is fine, but the 2D pitch is woefully small on the FM09 demo. Also, it's so jerky as to be unplayable.

FM07 and FM08 ran nice, smooth matchday experiences. What's happened?!

ok, so what should i do? i'm playing in windowed mode.

should i change the resolution in game or what?

anyone, please?

Mitja - I don't think there's anything you can do. It runs (2D) like it does for almost everyone.

Also, in 'unwindowed' mode the game's mouse cursor also has a choppy irregular movement. This is smoothed out when the game is put in windowed mode. so why is that?

This game is so riddled with glitches it's unbelievable.

Mitja - I don't think there's anything you can do. It runs (2D) like it does for almost everyone.

Also, in 'unwindowed' mode the game's mouse cursor also has a choppy irregular movement. This is smoothed out when the game is put in windowed mode. so why is that?

This game is so riddled with glitches it's unbelievable.

did anyone try to turn antivirus off?

Sorry, but that is rubbish.

My resolution is fine, but the 2D pitch is woefully small on the FM09 demo. Also, it's so jerky as to be unplayable.

FM07 and FM08 ran nice, smooth matchday experiences. What's happened?!

Well, seeing I've tried it on 3 different pc's one of which is a laptop I've played both FM07 & FM08 on in windowed mode. I think it would be your laptop as I said.

And thus it will be your pixel resolution thats the issue.

Well, seeing I've tried it on 3 different pc's one of which is a laptop I've played both FM07 & FM08 on in windowed mode. I think it would be your laptop as I said.

And thus it will be your pixel resolution thats the issue.

My pixel resolution?

It's my usual resolution. 1280x800. A standard resolution. It should look fine in this resolution.

07 and 08 worked like a dream, then 09 runs like a donkey. I knew I wouldn't be able to run 3D on my modest PC, but we were promised 2D would still be an option. Effectively it is not. We're told the TV mode in 2D is an option. Erm...well it would be except I don't want widgets covering the pitch -- kind of defeats the object of wanting to see the pitch.

And why oh why have one slider for game speed? Makes it unplayable.

Hugely disappointed I'm afraid.

i tried to lower the resolution to 1280x800 and the apearance is maybe 10% better. not to mention the pitch is wider then longer and round dots look like eggs...

My pixel resolution?

It's my usual resolution. 1280x800. A standard resolution. It should look fine in this resolution.

07 and 08 worked like a dream, then 09 runs like a donkey. I knew I wouldn't be able to run 3D on my modest PC, but we were promised 2D would still be an option. Effectively it is not. We're told the TV mode in 2D is an option. Erm...well it would be except I don't want widgets covering the pitch -- kind of defeats the object of wanting to see the pitch.

And why oh why have one slider for game speed? Makes it unplayable.

Hugely disappointed I'm afraid.

Just turn off the widgets then? I don't have them on..

One game slider doesn't make it unplayable, thats an awful remark , perhaps it slows down the game slightly.

I think you'll find that the minimum resolution for windowed mode is really 1280 by 1040 if I recall , that could be one of the large reasons why the 2d looks so small, it may well be allowed for 09, but for it to work properly you need the better resolution... Trying it now on my laptop it certainly seems to be the case as 1280 by 1040 looks good to me, and 1280 by 800 doesn't.