Youth Facilities/ Academy

I just wanted someone to clear this up for me. When you upgrade your facilities, why do you get better youngsters (and in consequence, better PA)? Is the youngster's PA affected by the facilities, and if so why? For instance, would a club with adequate facilities get worse youngsters than a club with excellent ones?

yeah and develop better- i think!

Yes, but why?

they would be able to attract better youngsters irl

No idea, it shouldn't work like that.

An example IRL is Michael Knightly.

He started his career at Basildon Utd. In the game he has a PA of about 160 i guess.

No way would this happen on FM. The best players always come from the teams with the best youth facilities.

Yes, players should develop better at teams with better youth facilities. But that doesn't mean that the best young players should come from from the teams with better youth systems.

Does this make sense? I know that the system in FM doesnt to me, ATM!

they would be able to attract better youngsters irl

See my example about Kightly. The best youngsters don't always start at good clubs.

Exactly. But in the game, most of the good players will be found in the clubs with state of the art academies, despite most players starting off with little clubs.

in real life the best players do come from the best clubs, rooney, owen, lampard, gerrard, beckham etc etc

kightly, decent player but hardly a world beater. and it does happen in fm, occasionaly. but if at 14 a player shows a lot of potential a big team will snap him up from a small club, but as a players history doesnt go back that far you dont see it

I thought that players couldn't move clubs before they were a certain age?

Anyway, not all players do. There are a large amount of players who DON'T start as big clubs. Maybe not world class player but never-the-less, but this rarely if ever the case in FM.

yeah they develop better

I see a lot of youngsters coming from other countries and becoming quite good, not sure of their PA since I don't use an editor but I do see far too many world class players coming up through Chelsea and AC Milan, far more than any other 2 teams.

of course it is the case in fm, are you telling me that championship clubs dont play players they get from their youth system? and who ever notices the players that arent world class unless you sign them.

and they can move, i think they can move freely until they sign a type of contract (apprentiship) or something, manutd signed a 1 year old from walsall a few years back. they didnt need to give us anything but gave us £50k as a gesture of good will

Del Piero started in San Vendemiano.

Pavel Nedved started in TJ Skalná.

Pelé started in Bauru AC.

World class players can start low.

i dont recall saying they cant, but i think if you wrote a list of the top 100 player (especially those currently playing) i would say at least 75% were at teams with academys when they were 16

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kightly

Tottenham Hotspur Schoolboy ?

But most big clubs get their best youth players from abroad nowadays (Fabio, Rafel Fabregas, Pachaeo, Merida), yet in FM their best youngsters are usually English.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kightly

Tottenham Hotspur Schoolboy ?

Sorry, my mistake. By Stu gave 3 very valid examples, better anyway.

Cesc Fabregas - CE Mataró

Deco - Nacional

Cristiano Ronaldo - CF Andorinha

Diego Maradona - Argentinos Juniors

Michael Essien - Liberty Professionals

Didier Drogba - Levallois

Kolo Toure - ASEC Mimosas

Yaya Toure - ASEC Abidjan

Dani Alves - EC Bahia

Ronaldo - Tennis Club Valqueire

Jürgen Klinsmann - TB Gingen

Oliver Kahn - Karlsruher SC

David Trezeguet - Platense

----------------------------

Gianluca Zambrotta - Como

Zinedine Zidane - US Saint-Henri

Generro Gattuso - Perugia

Marco Materazzi - Messina Peloro

Fabio Grosso - Renato Curi

Karim Benzema - Bron Terraillon

Juninho - Sport Recife

Kim Kallstrom - Partille

Jean II Makoun - Cotonsport Garoua

Added some more.

it should help having better youth facilities in theory

Better facilities should result in better CA, and quicker rises in CA, not better PA. PA is set for life.

I just wanted someone to clear this up for me. When you upgrade your facilities, why do you get better youngsters (and in consequence, better PA)? Is the youngster's PA affected by the facilities, and if so why? For instance, would a club with adequate facilities get worse youngsters than a club with excellent ones?

the better facilities help you improve better ect iat a school if a football player used there stuff it would keep him in shape and improve him but at a club like man utd with better facilities it get more out of you and improves your game better.

the better facilities help you improve better ect iat a school if a football player used there stuff it would keep him in shape and improve him but at a club like man utd with better facilities it get more out of you and improves your game better.

But even if my school had incredible training facilities, there's a few people I know who would still miss a ball stuck right in front of them.

Some people are good, some aren't. The training facilites shouldn't make a difference to this.

Yes, good training facilities should improve how quickly the player improves. But no facilities can make a bad player good.

the better facilities help you improve better ect iat a school if a football player used there stuff it would keep him in shape and improve him but at a club like man utd with better facilities it get more out of you and improves your game better.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

Crewe have a very good youth academy for L1. There first team is full with youngsters that could be top championship players in the future!

Seeing as we see our players for the first time aged 16, it is entirely possible that they would have started at tiny clubs but been attracted to big teams with good academies before the age of 16.

For example, Cristiano Ronaldo did indeed start off with CF Andorinha, however by the age of 16 he had been snapped up by Sporting Lisbon, with their obvious reputation as a great club for producing players.

Obviously there will be the odd couple that slip through the net, and this is reflected in the game, but generally by the age of 16/17, the good youngsters are all gone.

This is an interesting and valid argument. Nowerdays more and more top clubs are poaching players when they are 15/16 rather than 19/20 and bringing them through their youth academies. I think that someone hit this point earlier, but you could assume that when they are promoted at the beginning of each year into your academy, that doesn't necessarily mean they trained there when they were in their early teens as well.

It's a flawed system, but I can't think of any better solution that what we already have in the game to distinguish between clubs with amazing facilities and those with rubbish ones.

of course it is the case in fm, are you telling me that championship clubs dont play players they get from their youth system? and who ever notices the players that arent world class unless you sign them.

and they can move, i think they can move freely until they sign a type of contract (apprentiship) or something, manutd signed a 1 year old from walsall a few years back. they didnt need to give us anything but gave us £50k as a gesture of good will

A 1 year old? :confused:

If you guys would do a case study on this topic, then you'd come to see that there is a possibility for "good" players even in low semi-professional clubs.

I'll take the game I'm currently playing as an example. I'm in my second season with the FC Stranraer in the Scottish Third Division, my youth facilities are minimal (2/20 the FM editor tells me) and I've just had the luck of getting a youth regen with 131 PA among others that range from 15 to 45. That value is certainly high enough to be a regular starter for a mid-table team in the Scottish Premiere League and many other leagues, if trained properly. Such a player can become a star for any lower league team if you can hold him there. With long-running contracts and some clever loaning it'll be a boost no matter if you sell him or not.

If you guys would do a case study on this topic, then you'd come to see that there is a possibility for "good" players even in low semi-professional clubs.

I'll take the game I'm currently playing as an example. I'm in my second season with the FC Stranraer in the Scottish Third Division, my youth facilities are minimal (2/20 the FM editor tells me) and I've just had the luck of getting a youth regen with 131 PA among others that range from 15 to 45. That value is certainly high enough to be a regular starter for a mid-table team in the Scottish Premiere League and many other leagues, if trained properly. Such a player can become a star for any lower league team if you can hold him there. With long-running contracts and some clever loaning it'll be a boost no matter if you sell him or not.

We all know that they DO come through, I mean I see world class players coming from small non playable countries. The problem is when these players are unfound (no editor) so never develop whereas the likes of AC Milan seem to get an influx of 3 great youngsters every year and they develop at a good rate.

But most big clubs get their best youth players from abroad nowadays (Fabio, Rafel Fabregas, Pachaeo, Merida), yet in FM their best youngsters are usually English.

You really don't know what you're talking about. United have Campbell, Evans, Cathcart, Welbeck and Brandy who are probably ahead of the three Brazilians (and if you're counting Fabregas for Arsenal I think they could count Fletcher and O'Shea too). Arsenal have Gibbs, Wiltshire, Lansbury, Randall, Gavin Hoyte, Walcott and Ramsey. I'll give you Liverpool and Chelsea.

Having great facilities doesn't guarantee anything in game.

I know, I have great facilities but never get decent regens

I see your point. Nevertheless, when you look at coach reports from all your staff and everyone tells you that "his potential could lead him to becoming a good Scottish Second Division defender in the future" then you won't fail to notice that. Wouldn't you pay some extra attention for players like those or even modify your usual youth-player practice for the possibility of a real star player? Maybe the AI is doing it differently, or maybe many human managers don't notice those coach reports for youth players, who knows?

Your point about teams like AC Milan is taken. I know very little about the process of a youth player that may or may not be picked by a large first league club, but I suspect there are some major training camps or competitions or whatever and the area of influence might be an explanation as well. There's certainly less competition to become a youth player for some small backwater town third league club and what you get to see as trainer for AC Milan and the likes is simply the 'cream of the crop' that's left after a rigorous elimination system.

Crewe have a very good youth academy for L1. There first team is full with youngsters that could be top championship players in the future!

potentially yes but we're not playing like our potential both as players and as a team.

You really don't know what you're talking about. United have Campbell, Evans, Cathcart, Welbeck and Brandy who are probably ahead of the three Brazilians (and if you're counting Fabregas for Arsenal I think they could count Fletcher and O'Shea too). Arsenal have Gibbs, Wiltshire, Lansbury, Randall, Gavin Hoyte, Walcott and Ramsey. I'll give you Liverpool and Chelsea.

Having great facilities doesn't guarantee anything in game.

I know, I have great facilities but never get decent regens

Fair enough, I see your point there. Hats off to you there.

That's pretty much it

You really don't know what you're talking about. United have Campbell, Evans, Cathcart, Welbeck and Brandy who are probably ahead of the three Brazilians (and if you're counting Fabregas for Arsenal I think they could count Fletcher and O'Shea too). Arsenal have Gibbs, Wiltshire, Lansbury, Randall, Gavin Hoyte, Walcott and Ramsey. I'll give you Liverpool and Chelsea.

Having great facilities doesn't guarantee anything in game.

I know, I have great facilities but never get decent regens

It doesn't guarentee anything, but it really helps.

The players I posted above show that even clubs with rubbish facilities can produce amazing players.

If you look on FM, the majority of good regens will have started their careers with clubs with good facilites. Barely any start with clubs that can only just afford goal posts.

If you can prove me wrong than thats fine, but I doubt you'll be able to find enough youngsters who started at lowly clubs to backup your point.

It doesn't guarentee anything, but it really helps.

The players I posted above show that even clubs with rubbish facilities can produce amazing players.

If you look on FM, the majority of good regens will have started their careers with clubs with good facilites. Barely any start with clubs that can only just afford goal posts.

If you can prove me wrong than thats fine, but I doubt you'll be able to find enough youngsters who started at lowly clubs to backup your point.

That's what I mean to say!

which is also what i was saying

from some of the first posts i think the authors are expecting mini gerrards and rooneys to appear for their histon side

which is also what i was saying

from some of the first posts i think the authors are expecting mini gerrards and rooneys to appear for their histon side

Not every year, no, but once in a while there will be a player like that from a lower league club.

Another question is what determines the nationality of regens that come through your youth ranks. I just got a pretty decent South Korean regen in my Championship team but I have no idea where he came from.

* location of the stadium

* scouting knowledge

* staff from the country

* location of the stadium

* scouting knowledge

* staff from the country

Ahhh must be my scouts then.

Thanks.

which is also what i was saying

from some of the first posts i think the authors are expecting mini gerrards and rooneys to appear for their histon side

No, nothing like that. Well, Stu may be, but I'm not.

But 'my Histon side', I get regens with very low PA's. I'll check this year's bunch...

49

75

39

19

45

68

37

This is from a team who was in the BSP for 7 seasons.

There's no way to prove my point other than posting every regen's PA's for every LL club, and I'm not going to do that. But it's almost impossible to get a world class player from a lower league club.

I think a good addition would be employing a academy head coach and you can assign him a small budget each year to poach young talent U16 and a wage structure to employ his own scouts. Each year he will give you a summary of the years developments (coach reports on players potential) and you can assess if he has fulfilled his position satisfactory, if not get someone else in.

I think a good addition would be employing a academy head coach and you can assign him a small budget each year to poach young talent U16 and a wage structure to employ his own scouts. Each year he will give you a summary of the years developments (coach reports on players potential) and you can assess if he has fulfilled his position satisfactory, if not get someone else in.

Good idea, but would need ALOT of thinking about to implement it.

SI's job not mine but I do believe it would be a feature that would add something to the game rather than just feel like a add on for no reason.

I'm sure they could implement it anyway because if anybody in 1992, when Gary Owens was lifting the European cup with Sunderland, told me the game would be where it's at now I wouldn't of believed a word of it....... infact I'd of said - why change it, it's great like it is.

No, nothing like that. Well, Stu may be, but I'm not.

But 'my Histon side', I get regens with very low PA's. I'll check this year's bunch...

49

75

39

19

45

68

37

This is from a team who was in the BSP for 7 seasons.

There's no way to prove my point other than posting every regen's PA's for every LL club, and I'm not going to do that. But it's almost impossible to get a world class player from a lower league club.

And how many "world-class" players at present were produced by Conference teams?

And how many "world-class" players at present were produced by Conference teams?

Off the top of my head, none.

But look at other countries. Cesc Fabregas started his career at a Tercera División - Group 5 club.

There's a list of world-class players above who all started their careers at (IMO) crap, lower league clubs.

It's not just England we're talking about here. In fact, England have least because less money goes into LLM.

Other countries have many great players come from lower league teams with awful facilities.

No, nothing like that. Well, Stu may be, but I'm not.

But 'my Histon side', I get regens with very low PA's. I'll check this year's bunch...

49

75

39

19

45

68

37

This is from a team who was in the BSP for 7 seasons.

There's no way to prove my point other than posting every regen's PA's for every LL club, and I'm not going to do that. But it's almost impossible to get a world class player from a lower league club.

At that level, you can be sure that none of your youngsters will make anything but viable backup, which is a huge shame.

PA needs to have a much, much larger range. For example, a lot of Italian youngsters had most of their youth education at Serie B level, but in this game, let's just say the average Serie B team has Youth Facilities 12 - which results in youngsters with at best PAs of around 150 (and that's very rare) - in other words, only good enough for mid-table Serie A if they reach their potential (which is unlikely).

Although Conference sides don't produce world-class talent, they do tend to produce the occasional League One/Championship talent or two - and the odds of this happening in the game are close to zero, if not zero.

I'm not sure I enturpreted your post right, you were supporting my post, yeah?

No, nothing like that. Well, Stu may be, but I'm not.

But 'my Histon side', I get regens with very low PA's. I'll check this year's bunch...

49

75

39

19

45

68

37

This is from a team who was in the BSP for 7 seasons.

There's no way to prove my point other than posting every regen's PA's for every LL club, and I'm not going to do that. But it's almost impossible to get a world class player from a lower league club.

Off the top of my head, none.

But look at other countries. Cesc Fabregas started his career at a Tercera División - Group 5 club.

There's a list of world-class players above who all started their careers at (IMO) crap, lower league clubs.

It's not just England we're talking about here. In fact, England have least because less money goes into LLM.

Other countries have many great players come from lower league teams with awful facilities.

How old was Fabregas when he left that club? because by 16 he'd left barca for Arsenal. given that players don't turn up in the game until 15/16, he would, by the standards of the game, be a Barca youth product, not the Tercera Dvision Club.

And the reason I used the conference as an example was this quote from yourself:

"This is from a team who was in the BSP for 7 seasons.

There's no way to prove my point other than posting every regen's PA's for every LL club, and I'm not going to do that. But it's almost impossible to get a world class player from a lower league club"

You mentioned that after discussing a Conference club, so I took that to mean that you were suggesting Conference clubs should be capable of producing world class players, which is the point I was countering

I'm not sure I enturpreted your post right, you were supporting my post, yeah?

Yes, but being a little nastier.