Is Wenger Selling His Youngsters in Your Game?

this really annoys me. every game I started (but not gone too far ) he starts selling or loaning guys like Diaby, Denilson, Flamini, Diarra, Traore. and than he usualy buys someone like Maxi Rodrigiez for 20M. I believe he might sell many of those players in let's say next 5-7 years but we all know everyone of them will be given a chance more often than not and that there's no way he'd sell 5 youngsters, next summer. he'll probably bring a couple of young guns. pretty much same goes for Ferguson

is the same thing happening in your games?

I find this very irritating and that's one of the reasons I can't play long term games. transfers are totally unrealistic.

this really annoys me. every game I started (but not gone too far ) he starts selling or loaning guys like Diaby, Denilson, Flamini, Diarra, Traore. and than he usualy buys someone like Maxi Rodrigiez for 20M. I believe he might sell many of those players in let's say next 5-7 years but we all know everyone of them will be given a chance more often than not and that there's no way he'd sell 5 youngsters, next summer. he'll probably bring a couple of young guns. pretty much same goes for Ferguson

is the same thing happening in your games?

I find this very irritating and that's one of the reasons I can't play long term games. transfers are totally unrealistic.

im not having a go but its probly the same with every managment game tbh, the realistic approach to any game has its strengths and weaknesses its hard not to pick out little things that annoy you! lol i found it funny how every new game i started dave kitson and defoe would ALWAYS go to pompey but its one of those things in the game that you can see past. once the players are mostly regens you dont notice some things so much.

He always sells Vela for 10-15m on mine, but buys him back 4 years later for £32m-ish. Or the new manager does. Same with Bentner.

transfers and man managment are very important part of this game, for me. I used Wenger just as example how things work. he turns out to be just as same as any other manger in game.

the reason he's selling these youngsters is probably becouse their PA doesn't match CA or PA of his best players in given position, for exaple Diaby doesn't match Fabregas, Traore- Clichy and so on. but how many players do match Cesc? not many.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

He always sells Vela for 10-15m on mine, but buys him back 4 years later for £32m-ish. Or the new manager does. Same with Bentner. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah, even more absurd example. this is just one small piece of transfer system. I really hope transfers will be improved in next FM.

... we come to CA/PA again. everything turns around the thing that doesn't even exist in reality.

did Wenger buy Cesc becouse he was sure he'll turn out to be better player than Viera or he bought him becouse he saw smth in that little fallow. he had some skils for his age but nobody could predict he'll become as good. it's easy to asign him PA 190 now. what if he stayed in Barca they have dozens of Cesc's probably right now. the only problem they have are all "inesta's, xavi's, bojan's" playing in the 1st team. they won't get the chance at young age and nobody will hear for them. it was Wenger who "made" Cesc, not some PA set in stone.

the whole game is based on wrong basis. this thread can be closed as far as I'm concerned

My Wenger doesn't sell Arsenal's kids (but perhaps he sells AC Milan's now). He did loan Walcott out quite a bit though, didn't seem to rate him. Now it's up to Billy Davies to decide what to do with Arsenals kids. Oh and Dave Kitson never left Reading on my game, Defoe is at Pompey though (8.0.1 starting database).

In my current FM07 game, by the end of 2009 Arsenal's squad average age is 28.

For some reason, Wenger's ditched his policy of signing youngsters and signed Nakamura, Makalele and... (wait for it)... SHEVCHENKO!

Also Wenger might quite rightly decide that his policy is flawed and start changing the way he approaches the game.

He doesn't in mine.

Because he hasn't got a job

(I'm Arsenal manager by the way)

he won't sell any at a reasonable price in my spanish and italian games. my other game is as arsenal manager.

he doesn't let their contracts run out either.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Si BHA:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

... we come to CA/PA again. everything turns around the thing that doesn't even exist in reality.

did Wenger buy Cesc becouse he was sure he'll turn out to be better player than Viera or he bought him becouse he saw smth in that little fallow. he had some skils for his age but nobody could predict he'll become as good. it's easy to asign him PA 190 now. what if he stayed in Barca they have dozens of Cesc's probably right now. the only problem they have are all "inesta's, xavi's, bojan's" playing in the 1st team. they won't get the chance at young age and nobody will hear for them. it was Wenger who "made" Cesc, not some PA set in stone.

the whole game is based on wrong basis. this thread can be closed as far as I'm concerned </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So how is the game wrong? Playing first team football is an important factor in a young player reaching his potential. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what? I don't understand your question.

my point was, he's selling his youngsters becouse they don't have potential to reach first team players like Cesc or Clichy. their potential is limited in the game while IRE Wenger can't say exactly, how good can youngsters become. that's where game fails.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Klimowicz:

he won't sell any at a reasonable price in my spanish and italian games. my other game is as arsenal manager.

he doesn't let their contracts run out either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

is EPL running on full detail mode in your ita/spa games?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Klimowicz:

he won't sell any at a reasonable price in my spanish and italian games. my other game is as arsenal manager.

he doesn't let their contracts run out either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

is EPL running on full detail mode in your ita/spa games? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i gathered that this might be the reason. shouldn't be tbh. if i was running la liga in my epl game, i guess daniel alves would have been much less than the £45M spent on him for my arsenal team.

then again, AI to AI transfer fees are always more appropreate. chelsea got pazzini for £15M, yet fiorentina wouldn't accept less than £24M from my old milan game (2012/13).

very annoying when rivals get epl players for half as much as they wanted from my teams.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Si BHA:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Si BHA:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

... we come to CA/PA again. everything turns around the thing that doesn't even exist in reality.

did Wenger buy Cesc becouse he was sure he'll turn out to be better player than Viera or he bought him becouse he saw smth in that little fallow. he had some skils for his age but nobody could predict he'll become as good. it's easy to asign him PA 190 now. what if he stayed in Barca they have dozens of Cesc's probably right now. the only problem they have are all "inesta's, xavi's, bojan's" playing in the 1st team. they won't get the chance at young age and nobody will hear for them. it was Wenger who "made" Cesc, not some PA set in stone.

the whole game is based on wrong basis. this thread can be closed as far as I'm concerned </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So how is the game wrong? Playing first team football is an important factor in a young player reaching his potential. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what? I don't understand your question.

my point was, he's selling his youngsters becouse they don't have potential to reach first team players like Cesc or Clichy. their potential is limited in the game while IRE Wenger can't say exactly, how good can youngsters become. that's where game fails. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Someone with Wenger's experience probably has a fairly good idea whether a young player has the potential to make it or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

of course he does, that's why he's not selling them all. that was my point. and why do you think he's selling them in the game?

he's selling the game? which one?

he doesn't rate their potential???

I think a good way to solve this would be to give the managers more personality, or even their own PPM's.

In real life Wenger has a talent for buying and hanging onto good young players. He rarely seems to loan out these players and they seem happy to try and break into the first team, which they get a chance to do now and again.

This skill with younger players could be represented better if the managers had more distinguishable personalities in the game. Or the PPM idea that I saw someone put forward for managers is a good idea.

So Wengers PPM's would be something like:

Looks to sign young talented players.

Unlikely to make younger players available for loan.

Likes to hang onto young talented players.

Likely to give younget players first team opportunities.

Obviously the above is just an example, I'm sure it could be done much better by an experienced game designer

I agree adding something like PPM, would hugely improve the game and maybe solve problems like this.

another PPM:

doesn't like to split huge amounts of money for the player/unlike SAF.

in my game he sold walcot to city

sold vela to me man u

diarra and traore to tottenham

part from that no one else

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by madog308:

sold vela to me man u

diarra and traore to tottenham </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seriously? He sold to rivals like Spurs and United?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

... we come to CA/PA again. everything turns around the thing that doesn't even exist in reality.

did Wenger buy Cesc becouse he was sure he'll turn out to be better player than Viera or he bought him becouse he saw smth in that little fallow. he had some skils for his age but nobody could predict he'll become as good. it's easy to asign him PA 190 now. what if he stayed in Barca they have dozens of Cesc's probably right now. the only problem they have are all "inesta's, xavi's, bojan's" playing in the 1st team. they won't get the chance at young age and nobody will hear for them. it was Wenger who "made" Cesc, not some PA set in stone.

the whole game is based on wrong basis. this thread can be closed as far as I'm concerned </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Always comes back to the CA/PA. Wenger bought Fabregas because he saw/predicted the potential in him to become a great player. He/Arsenal are now getting that potential out of Fabregas, but he always had that potential. If he'd have stayed at Barca his progress may have stalled somewhat if he'd not broken into the 1st team, but he's had still have the potential.

of course ...and have PA 133 in FM.

you know what is PA for me. it's just the number researchers put in FM db. nothing more than that. acording to FM db (Wenger also), F. Jeffers had amazing future infront of him. is he still a pro?

'life's just like box of chocolate...'

Aaarrrggghh!! Not the CA/PA argument again.

Run away, run away!!!

...I had to do it, I couldn't resist...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

you know what is PA for me. it's just the number researchers put in FM db. nothing more than that. acording to FM db (Wenger also), F. Jeffers had amazing future infront of him. is he still a pro?

'life's just like box of chocolate...' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah that's correct. It's just a number put in by the researchers. But without cheating, you wouldn't know what this number was. The same as in real life, you have no way of knowing what this 'number' is (and there's no editor or scout program in real life ).

CA/PA need to be in the game, even though it's not an ideal scenario (which would be impossible to replicate). It's almost impossible to tell how good a player will become, hence the researchers make an educated guess. They may not always be correct, but most of the time they do a decent job.

It would be a nightmare if everybody had the same potential, and also highly unrealistic.

ca pa needs to be able to raise and reduce the maximum number.

if a player is long term injured or play bad it should sink

if a player plays good and or gets first team exp early and handles it well the max should be raised.

static ca pa is boring

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kennec:

ca pa needs to be able to raise and reduce the maximum number.

if a player is long term injured or play bad it should sink

if a player plays good and or gets first team exp early and handles it well the max should be raised.

static ca pa is boring </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why is it boring? You shouldn't know the values anyway. CA isn't static - it will fluctuate based on form, age, injury, etc. PA will remain static as it should do.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KK2003:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

you know what is PA for me. it's just the number researchers put in FM db. nothing more than that. acording to FM db (Wenger also), F. Jeffers had amazing future infront of him. is he still a pro?

'life's just like box of chocolate...' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah that's correct. It's just a number put in by the researchers. But without cheating, you wouldn't know what this number was. The same as in real life, you have no way of knowing what this 'number' is (and there's no editor or scout program in real life ).

CA/PA need to be in the game, even though it's not an ideal scenario (which would be impossible to replicate). It's almost impossible to tell how good a player will become, hence the researchers make an educated guess. They may not always be correct, but most of the time they do a decent job.

It would be a nightmare if everybody had the same potential, and also highly unrealistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

only judgements scouts or coaches can make about some youngster's potential are:

-how good player x is, compared to others players at same age (ex, player x is defenetly our best player and one of the 3 best in whole league in his position)

-how good player x is, compared to some senior player in same positon (ex, player x looks like he's not as good as player y at that age)

-personality (which can be changed with right guidence; coach, team-mates)

-room for improvement (it's easier to improve weaker skills than good ones)

from here on it's all about hard work, oportunity and luck. player already has potential in his CA. if he's much better than others that meens he's got much more potential to become good player than others. but it defenetly isn't set in stone.

in the game , the concept of CA/PA makes allready good players (youngsters) into great and bad players into even worse. that's shouldn't be the case. that's also probably the only reason why managers like wenger is selling his youngsters (becouse they don't have the potential to reach best players). and that's totally unrealistic. what happens in the year of 2020 I can only imagine.

no one has unlimited potential. furthermore, every attribute has it's limit. if you're slow at 16 or 18 you can't be fast at 24. you can only be a bit faster than before. that's why at least flexible PA is needed. exactly what kennec said. but he messed up CA with PA, becouse CA is flexible, of course. it should change when youngster gets his chance in the 1st team, when moves to better quality league/team, after exellant form and so on....

We'll have to agree to disagree Mitja. We seem to have this debate every week and end up going round and round in circles

he always seems to buy adrian mutu on my game

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Klimowicz:

he won't sell any at a reasonable price in my spanish and italian games. my other game is as arsenal manager.

he doesn't let their contracts run out either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i got walcott on a free hes a demon

In my game, Arsenal has a LOT of amazing players (season 2011-1012), and they REFUSE to sell anyone.

I bid 900 million dkr for Fabregas, just to test them, and they refused.

None of their players are ever sold, as they refuse every bid any club ever makes for them.

It is amazing that the boards doesnt interfere and accept bids like the one I made on Fabregas.

And no, for the record, I would not have gone through with it, had they done.

I wasn't talking about players like Fabregas.

and I don't feel talking about this anymore. I just wanted to find out a few things. and that's it. I just hope some things will inprove hugely with FM09.

TBF, Arsene Wenger has many charactaristics that a management game or any football game could ever match, and TBF to SI they have done a decent job.