Ethical Dilemmas in FM!

Just out of interest, does anyone refrain from doing perfectly viable things in the game because your conscience tells you not to? If you do. is this part of the 'simulation' thing whereby you are unwilling to do in-game what you would never dream of IRL, or is it that your 'moral code' really does extend to an electronic world where you are the only real participant?

I myself seem to take an arbitrarily mixed ethical stance when I play. Some things I do because I can 'get away with' them, but at other times I disadvantage myself by trying to be too nice.

Bad thing I do include:

- 'Gazundering' *shudders at actually employing horrific 21st century market-crap speak* I bid for a player, the bid is accepted, I lower the bid to see if I could get away with anything less.

- I agree a deal to sell a player to a club in the same league, then (if outside a transfer window and he for whatever reason doesn't feature in my plans) stick him in goalkeeping training for a few months to try and mess him up for the buyer.

- Deliberately lose on the rare occasion that, for example, it's the last day of the season and I 'forget' to play a goalkeeper because I know that if my opponents win they will finish above, and relegate Arsenal!

But then I do stuff which harms me too eg:

- I will never bring off a striker who is on 2 goals (and is still fit), even if I'm dying to blood a promising youth player in a match that has already been won.

- I always give my favourite long-serving players a chance to coach when they retire even if my coaching set-up is perfect and they turn out rubbish.

- If I am at a rich club and am buying from a player from a small club, say the asking price is nothing (eg 5k) I'll always give more like 50k as it makes not difference to me and I feel guilty taking a potential world-beater for peanuts.

Do any of you either do evil (or good) just because you can, or do you like to stick rigidly to what you'd be likely to do or have to do IRL to make the game more of a simulation?

It's not strictly evil, but when I refuse a transfer for one of my top players, I suck up to them by hiring their favoured personnel when I ask them, even if I don't need them. However, when one of my other players are unhappy, I let them rot in the reserves as I stick them on the transfer list.

- I NEVER change a bid to try and get a player for less than a previously accepted bid.

- I may stick a player in the reserves who I have sold to a rival, but I will NOT purposely mess up his training.

- I would never play without a goalkeeper to deliberately lose, but I have played all youngsters in meaningless games.

- I will bring off a player on 2 goals to get a younger player some playing time if the game situation warrants it or the player is particularly susceptible to injury.

- I will also give my former favorites the chance to coach regardless of their coaching scores.

- Regardless of how rich I have made my club, I always try to do the best by my club. No free money here.

I think part of it comes from tips I had (mostly rubbish) from a friend when I first started playing CM about 7 years ago - he said that you should never bring off a striker on a hat-trick as it damages morale. Even though this happens loads IRL I just won't do it in FM now unless I really have to. He also said that at the end of the season you should unselect your team to improve morale, but even though I never saw any evidence of this it's one of the traditions I always do on the last day of the season!

If my board start to really **** me off and i'm on the verge of leaving or being fired, I make a stupidly high bid for a crap player at the main rivals team. Like if I was arsenal, i'd bid 100 million for dider zokora at tottenham.

Sometime the board block it tho, but I keep trying until I pull it off.

I then leave the club in financial turmoil.

Unethical? Hmm. I would never allow my team to ease up against an outclassed opponent, whether it's a cup game or a friendly. If we're 4-0 up at half-time, I want to see double figures.

I indulge my star players and treat others with an iron fist. If some Oliver Twist in the youth team asks for more, he's transfer listed before the word's out of his mouth. I once gave my rubbish backup 'keeper cross country training all day every day until he got the message and agreed to leave.

I tend to put all my players who are reaching age 30 on the transfer list. I am however getting closer to my 30's as well, so every year it feels a bit harsher to do so.

Anyhow I give my long serving star players some more credit and let them get some extra games before my youngsters run over him.

When a player complains that he doesn't get enough minutes when it's obvious that the player who is playing on his position is doing 10x better then he ever was. The complaining one mostly ends up getting the boot!

Another one: I don't want to punish players who've picked up red cards! I want them to play aggresive! But my other players get upset when I don't punish them!

I have never dont any evil things in FM, not I dont want to but simply never thing of that.....

but now :-), thanks to this thread, there seems to bring another dimension to the (starting to be) boring game

I always play AFC Wimbledon in a friendly pre season and give them all the revenue because they are a fan's club.

I'm a bit sentimental. If a long serving player has been moved to the reserves and is retiring, or being sold to a lower league club,I will always give them one last game even if their stats are now terrible, and will probably put them on penalties too.

I've thrown the odd game towards the end of the season. Once to help keep Man U from getting into the champions league and once to keep Liverpool out (that game sent me down to the championship, still well worth it though).

Probably my worst abuse is of youth players who come up for a senior contract but are not good enough to ever make the team. I sign them to a one year contract and then terminate that contract the next day and save myself half to 3/4 of the compensation that would have been due if I sacked them under their youth contract.

If my team has any status at all in the league I am playing, I try to sell good players that want to leave to teams outside my league.

I have had players (30+ years old) whose attributes have dropped 20-30 points in one year that have several years of contract left placed on the highest levels of strength and aerobic training to try to force them out, though I'm not sure it works.

I once put my retiring 36 year old 'club captain' on the bench for the FA cup final. I brought him on for the last 3 minutes, as we were 3-1 up, as a farewell present. I'm a sensitive old boot really

I always make my keeper captain for cup finals, in the hope that he will have a blinder and save a few pens.

I allow all my players to leave whenever they want.

I also accept bids on rotation players for their actual market value.

I also accept bids for monthly payments equal to my remaining contract instead of lump sum transfer payments. I buy players for lump sums.

I'll never leave a club voluntarily if it's in debt.

I've definitely got "managerial ethics" - basically, I try to play as though the game were "the real world", and do (or don't do) things that I wouldn't do IRL.

The "good" things I usually do are:

- If I've locked up the title, I try to play my younger players in the final matches. However, if the opposition is involved in a relegation / promotion / Europe battle, I will start my first-teamers "to protect the integrity of the competition".

- I may stick a transferred player in the Reserves to rot, but I'd never mess with his training schedule.

- Try to favour my former clubs via loans, sales, and home friendlies, if I can, to help their bank balance and chances.

- I stay loyal to my older players, the ones which I have developed affection for, keeping them in the lineup a little too long. I try to let them retire for the club, and keep them involved as a sub as long as they can contribute.

- I tend to stay loyal to the club, denying rumours that I might move.

- I refuse to use the corner-cheat, FMM, or the pre-game editor.

The "evil" things I do are

- If a player doesn't respond well to my team-talk style and media style, I'm likely to shift him to the Reserves and try to move him along, at a loss if necessary.

- I'm pretty ruthless about moving out players whom I have not developed affection for as soon as they show some signs of decline.

- I'll mess with other teams via the Media module, playing mind games, trying to put pressure on players or make them overconfident.

- Keep trying to score (running up the score) with a 3-0 lead.

Bad - I have done a few things previously said on this thread, although one memory that sticks out was that on the last day of the season, I was beating Crystal Palace 4-0 with around 10 mins to go when I checked the live league table. As it stood Palace were down having a one goal worse difference, although if they scored one (making the score 4-1) they would be level, but more importantly safe as they had scored more goals than Everton. Whats the difference I hear you say? I was Arsenal and winning the title year after year, neither team posed a threat to me and if anything Crystal Palace were rivals (being from London). I then remembered that Everton were the only team to have beaten me at home all season and I duly removed my GK, and pushed him upfront and making some very dubious substitutions. Within 2 minuets of the change Crystal Palace had pulled not just the one goal required but two goals and come full time were celebrating staying up by the skin of their teeth. Double sweet for me as I also took 6 points of them the following season and knocked them out of the league cup and Everton finished in 16th place in the CCC after selling all their star players.

Good - A few years ago (FM 05 I think) during a career game with Oldham, I took the team all the way to the EPL after a while I quit and went on to manage Newcastle, during a match between Newcastle and my former club Oldham I noticed that the Oldham manager brought on a very old regen player who was simply brilliant for me during my time there, however my centre halves had him in his pocket so I took them both off and replaced them with a winger and a youth defender. Needless to say the old boy found the extra space he had very useful and found his magic touch to finish with a hat-trick and on the winning side 3-2 and the man of the match performance from the bench. There is alot to be said for sentiment in football.

Good - A few years ago (FM 05 I think) during a career game with Oldham, I took the team all the way to the EPL after a while I quit and went on to manage Newcastle, during a match between Newcastle and my former club Oldham I noticed that the Oldham manager brought on a very old regen player who was simply brilliant for me during my time there, however my centre halves had him in his pocket so I took them both off and replaced them with a winger and a youth defender. Needless to say the old boy found the extra space he had very useful and found his magic touch to finish with a hat-trick and on the winning side 3-2 and the man of the match performance from the bench. There is alot to be said for sentiment in football.

*tips hat*

You are a truly great man, I did this once with a Spanish regen who had scored hatfulls for me, but then he did his knee in, so he ended his career, I felt so guilty afterwards.

I'd deliberately lose to send certain teams down (for real life and FM reasons), I have also purposefully lost play off games (long term strategy).

I will re-sign a 32 year old player whos useless if he was great in the past for me (this comes after letting a club {rushden and diamonds} legend rot in the reserves for a year before releasing on a free in FM05, I felt like I'd let him down {even though 'he' was a simulation} .

I offer HIGHER wages than asked for by certain players (this isn't really sentimentality, this is because they are part of my first team plans and they will want higher wages later on anyway).

I will try to stop scoring goals (Slow tempo down, move a centre mid to attaking mid on the wing, bring on wingers for striker etc..) after 5 against weak opposition, its no fun to tear a much weaker team to pieces.

A friend of mine (Spurs fan) once bought Bentley, who he hates as a player (ironic? lol) and then put him in the reserves on keeper training and fined him 2 weeks wages every 2 weeks for no reason to cripple him financially and ruin his career. He spent something like 12m on him too, such a waste of a transfer budget but so funny to torture what is essentially, data.

I re-signed Nicky Forster, Jamie Cureton and Adie Williams for Reading in one save, even though I really didn't need them.

I buy every decent regen I see, whether I need them or not.

I do weird things like this for some reason too. especially giving lower teams extra money or giving a low division team a loan player rather than a higher one. I refuse to play anyone with a condition 79 or under i play people out of position if i have to. i guess this kind of relates to what you are saying.

If there is a player who i really dislike or has agreed to join another club in january i leave them to rot in the reserves and don't train them.

Just a second ago on my Bristol City save I had to beat leeds to win the league, or lose to them and send Millwall and Bristol Rovers down. I lost 4-0, I felt so gratified afterwards.

Is it weird that I don't play anyone with condition under 90 then?

90 is fine with me but everyone is different arent they mate..

Just a second ago on my Bristol City save I had to beat leeds to win the league, or lose to them and send Millwall and Bristol Rovers down. I lost 4-0, I felt so gratified afterwards.

Your hatred must run deep...very deep.

- I always play the Nottingham teams at their place in a pre-season friendly.

- I also keep older players even if I can never play them. Stevie Finnan is in my reserves until he signs a coach deal or refuses to extend his contract.

- I always low ball clubs to unsettle players, then pick them up at a reasonable price. In 06, I got Tevez for free because he was so ****ed off at Corinthians. That was a highlight.

- I've signed players I don't need to keep them from other clubs, and sometimes just because I like them. I have Stevie Warnock back from Blackburn, Marcelo on a free and neither of them can get in front of Babel or Sergio Peter.

- Last season, I had two fit strikers for the CL final. Dirk Kuyt and Bojan. I was deadset on selling Kuyt for an inflated fee at the end of the season, he's in his thirties and way down the pecking order... but he got a hat-trick and the final was against Chelsea, so I kept him.

The only mean thing I have done is as Real Madrid I have bid for Messi when his release clause is low without any attention of buying him. Since he doesn't want to leave he gets upset at his club for accepting my offer. After doing this 2-3 times he eventually demands out.

i have in the past made ridiculously high offers for rivals players, then when they are accepted, the player sometimes becomes bewildered that the club is willing to sell, had to be a star player tho. not really done any unethical things recently, its not my bag to add myself as the opp and play no keeper and sell the best players, just not worth cheating like that.

usually bring in players on bosman or youngsters and sell them for ridiculous profit, then get bored when i can't sign a good replacement!!