maybe somefunny moments in 09 with 3d

with the 2d game you couldnt see when players were not doing what they should only the commentary would give an idea, i would imagine with a few bugs in the program we might see players running the wrong way, kicking the ball out of play for no reason, keepers could be very interesting.

im not saying its gonna happen but hold your breathe it might be a bumpy ride.

ps: hope im so utterly wrong as i want this to be the start of the ultimate fm ever.

you are wrong, its exactly the same mach engine as the 2d one meaning what happens in 2d will be exactly the same in 3d. Possibly the anninations might be a little dodgy but what the players actually do will be similar to the 2008 match engine

you are wrong, its exactly the same mach engine as the 2d one meaning what happens in 2d will be exactly the same in 3d. Possibly the anninations might be a little dodgy but what the players actually do will be similar to the 2008 match engine

you are right though I think some things may look dodgy, overall, I think the 3D view will do just fine

I expect that there will be some entertaining glitches, sure ..

But I think in general that the 3D match engine should be better able to show us what's happening in some of the cases people report as "inexplicable" in 2D.

In particular, I'm expecting that we'll get a much better idea of why players are missing shots (scuffed balls, bouncing balls, off balance, rushed, glanced off the foot, etc) which look like they were "easy chances" in the 2D.

kicking the ball out of play for no reason

I've had wingers do this quite often.

I expect that there will be some entertaining glitches, sure ..

But I think in general that the 3D match engine should be better able to show us what's happening in some of the cases people report as "inexplicable" in 2D.

In particular, I'm expecting that we'll get a much better idea of why players are missing shots (scuffed balls, bouncing balls, off balance, rushed, glanced off the foot, etc) which look like they were "easy chances" in the 2D.

this is the main reason i'm looking forward to 3d. ATM when I miss an easy chance I have to remind myself that it might have been more difficult than it appeared. Now i'll be certain

I think the tackling might be the main issue, being in 2D we couldnt really tell if a tackle was worthy of a booking or a sending off. Hopefully in 3D the majority of decisisons will be the right ones.

Personally i think 3d will be useless.

this is the main reason i'm looking forward to 3d. ATM when I miss an easy chance I have to remind myself that it might have been more difficult than it appeared. Now i'll be certain

I agree completely, I really hope it will give us a better look to see what is going on when our strikers miss any easy chance.

I've had wingers do this quite often.

same here!

Personally i think 3d will be useless.

Keep the faith. I wouldn't be surprised if there were glitches but overall it should be good. I don't see why they would release a rubbish match engine. Remember they've been working on it for years!

They have worked on it for 5 years, so hopefully it won't be shocking.

They have worked on it for 5 years, so hopefully it won't be shocking.

I think it is 3 years, anyway it should still be atleast decent!

Personally i think 3d will be useless.

How nice of you to say so after the Sports Interactive team have been working on it for 3-4 years, what is the point of saying that just don't buy the game then, that is not what i call constructive criticism and plus how can you tell have you played it yet? Absolutely pointless.

you are wrong, its exactly the same mach engine as the 2d one meaning what happens in 2d will be exactly the same in 3d. Possibly the anninations might be a little dodgy but what the players actually do will be similar to the 2008 match engine

Odd things happened in the 2d engine, and will look even more odd in 3d. Imagine the closing down bug in 3d? Defenders just back pedaling continuously from mid field onwards?

Personally i think 3d will be useless.

Can't imagine a company of SI's reputation releasing a game with a "useless" ME.

Perhaps a new games developer coming onto the scene might take such a chance but, from what I've read thus far, SI have been working on this for years and have always stated (apparently) that they would never bring out 3D until they knew they had the technology and could do it justice.

They are now bringing out that very ME in glorious 3D.

If SI say it's ready and they are happy with it, why wouldn't we believe them?

If it's rubbish and they've been lying to us, then it backfires on them.

Useless? Not a chance.

I think it is 3 years, anyway it should still be atleast decent!

I meant to say 3(typo).

I meant to say 3(typo).

ofcourse you did

Wee Aja, great post and agree 100%

Keep the faith. I wouldn't be surprised if there were glitches but overall it should be good. I don't see why they would release a rubbish match engine. Remember they've been working on it for years!

Exactly. Let's define our terms - its worth remembering that what they are proposing isn't anything radical.

Premier Manager '98 had a 3D graphical match display.

The underlying match engine was so useless that, well, my team tended to score most of its goals because the oppo. GK's goal kicks didn't reach the back row of his defense, letting my striker nip in for a one-on-one ... .. but the display itself was certainly acceptable.

FM'09 is using the same match engine we've been seeing for years - the FM'07 one updated to the FM'08 one updated to the FML one, and further refined and polished into the FM'09 one.

It sounds, to me, like FM'09's 3D match display is going to better than the Premier Manager '98 one, but noticeably less detailed than, say, the FIFA'05 one: you won't be able to zoom in for close ups of your player's facial expression after a miss, but you will be able to gauge positioning, fouls, quality of chances, etc, better than you currently can.

Exactly. Let's define our terms - its worth remembering that what they are proposing isn't anything radical.

Premier Manager '98 had a 3D graphical match display.

The underlying match engine was so useless that, well, my team tended to score most of its goals because the oppo. GK's goal kicks didn't reach the back row of his defense, letting my striker nip in for a one-on-one ... .. but the display itself was certainly acceptable.

FM'09 is using the same match engine we've been seeing for years - the FM'07 one updated to the FM'08 one updated to the FML one, and further refined and polished into the FM'09 one.

It sounds, to me, like FM'09's 3D match display is going to better than the Premier Manager '98 one, but noticeably less detailed than, say, the FIFA'05 one: you won't be able to zoom in for close ups of your player's facial expression after a miss, but you will be able to gauge positioning, fouls, quality of chances, etc, better than you currently can.

Thanks for this Amaroq, you probably are not allowed to answer but will you be able to distinguish between a foul and good tackle?

I rmber Alex Ferguson Player managment 2001/2002 had 3d in it and the left winger would constantly run the ball out or kick it out for no reason

Thanks for this Amaroq, you probably are not allowed to answer but will you be able to distinguish between a foul and good tackle?

I haven't played with the 3D match engine; I'm a simple fan just like you.

I would guess that you will be able to distinguish between a good tackle and a questionable one .. but you may not be able to gauge if it was worth a card, foul, or 'play on'.

My guess is based on:

- the quality of previous 3D match displays

- the quality of SI's previous work

- the differences in the match events file (events.cfg)

- SI's comments in blogs, threads, and interviews.

I've had opposition strikers clear the ball when they are right next to one of my corner posts... Like it says he cleared it, fanged it hard out and he was about 2 metres from the byline... I seroiusly cant stop laughing when it happens though ^^

I rmber Alex Ferguson Player managment 2001/2002 had 3d in it and the left winger would constantly run the ball out or kick it out for no reason

That game had some of the most shocking bugs I've ever seen in any game ever.

The Left winger thing was one of them; as soon as they crossed the half way line they just run off the pitch with the ball, sometimes on through the advertising hoardings and beyond before nonchalantly jogging back onto the pitch!

....And back to topic:

Amaroq, I think you're spot-on there. The match will hardly look like FIFA or Pro Evo games, but with it being the FM match engine it should be just fine.

And peter-evo, that's one thing in particular I'm going to enjoy if it comes to pass. I also like the idea of being able to stop and rewind to watch our own replays as and when we want, especially if it means we stand a chance when questioning dodgy decisions!

I could've been a big fan of (get ready) F.A. Premier League Football Manager 99 (that's FAPLFM99 for 'short'), but there was a bug that meant the game crashed at a certain date with a few seasons, meaning it's unplayable. The 3D match engine was not realistic really. The players passed and shot but you weren't going to get fluid movement. However I still thought it was very good.

As long as the 3D engine represents play than normally that would be good enough, however this is FM and we're used to super-fluid text commentary, and then mostly realistic bird's eye view matches, so the 3D has to be like a console game I'd imagine.

I did enjoy the stadium expansion part of LMA, but the 3D replays were boring

I could've been a big fan of (get ready) F.A. Premier League Football Manager 99 (that's FAPLFM99 for 'short'), but there was a bug that meant the game crashed at a certain date with a few seasons, meaning it's unplayable. The 3D match engine was not realistic really. The players passed and shot but you weren't going to get fluid movement. However I still thought it was very good.

As long as the 3D engine represents play than normally that would be good enough, however this is FM and we're used to super-fluid text commentary, and then mostly realistic bird's eye view matches, so the 3D has to be like a console game I'd imagine.

I think you're talking about the 2002 version as I had the same exact problem. It used to happen and I thought it was because of the disc. A couple of years later I bought it new from Amazon, random I know, and it still crashed a few seasons in. Never ralised it was the same date

Personally i think 3d will be useless.

I am afraid it will become repetetive after a while.

I am afraid it will become repetetive after a while.

How the hell can it be repetitive when the game will be played out identically to the 2D view...seeing as both of them run off the same engine

I am afraid it will become repetetive after a while.

What's with all these people lambasting the 3D ME before they've even played it?

As Smurfdude said, how would it? Are you bored of the 2D ME?

And if you are, maybe a different game would be appropriate.

Actually, that sounds cheeky; I don't mean it to be. Sorry, I just don't see how people can make a judgement when you don't even have a 1st impression, let alone a chance of an extended go at it....

Obviously still many did not understand the difference between the Match Engine and Rendering Engine.

MatchEngine is the one which determines what AI should do and how the physics are applied. This will remain as it is and only get some improvements which are already tested in FML. It is totally independent from the Commentary/2D/3D selection.

RenderingEngine is just a Graphical representation of the match which is being played by the ME. 3D may and very likely will have some graphical glitches but it wont affect the actual flow of the match. glitches for example, maybe player will kick the ball even though the ball wont touch him, or players will switch from one animation to another without proper transition, maybe some see throughs, overlapping and such but none of these will affect where the ball is actually going and what AI is doing.

On other words you may play the same match with either 2D or 3D and exactly same match will occur, regardless to that selection.

As Smurfdude said, how would it? Are you bored of the 2D ME?

yes, i am, after a while, I get the feeling i've seen it all before, same moves, same plays, same goals. I don't play FM to watch the match. That's of the least importance to me.

yes, i am, after a while, I get the feeling i've seen it all before, same moves, same plays, same goals. I don't play FM to watch the match. That's of the least importance to me.

FM has the by far most variety among Match Engines even if you consider regular football games like FIFA and PES. FM by far has most depth and variation when it comes to tactical possibilities and playing styles. If you find FM repetitive then it is hard to fulfill your expectations I assume.

I find the 2D representation of the engine not repetitive at all. Goals are not scripted before hand and the imagination plays a large part of how you percieve a situation, if you watch 10 2D matches using your head you will not get the feeling of repetitiveness, no two situations are exacly the same,

Also, in real life, there will have been goals in the past which have been very similar in the finishing aspect (two of Walcotts goals against Croatia) but you have to go further back than the finish itself, look at the build up play, the positioning of defenders and attackers and the movement.

The animations in the 3D view may end up repetitive (just like Fifa 2009 and Pro Evolution Soccer 2009) but the whole build up and the decisions will vary all the time!

yes, i am, after a while, I get the feeling i've seen it all before, same moves, same plays, same goals. I don't play FM to watch the match. That's of the least importance to me.

Well, as long as you understood I wasn't trying to be cheeky there with that post

FM has the by far most variety among Match Engines even if you consider regular football games like FIFA and PES. FM by far has most depth and variation when it comes to tactical possibilities and playing styles. If you find FM repetitive then it is hard to fulfill your expectations I assume.

I don't find FM repetitive, just the 2D. I love the game, but I stick to commentary.

Also, in real life, there will have been goals in the past which have been very similar in the finishing aspect (two of Walcotts goals against Croatia) but you have to go further back than the finish itself, look at the build up play, the positioning of defenders and attackers and the movement.

exactly, plus in real life it's a human being (who is never the same) and in the game it's just a round blob (in 2D).

Personally i think 3d will be useless.

personally i think your a gimp

I think you're talking about the 2002 version as I had the same exact problem.

It was a major negative of FAPLFM99. That and the completely insane slow-mo opera bakcground music. What drugs were they smoking when they made that music? Cos it sounded like one scary trip.

Obviously still many did not understand the difference between the Match Engine and Rendering Engine.

Oh, sure, like they'll listen to you when they wouldn't listen to me.

Good explanation, though.

It was a major negative of FAPLFM99. That and the completely insane slow-mo opera bakcground music. What drugs were they smoking when they made that music? Cos it sounded like one scary trip.

So they couldn't fix the problem even 3 years later?

So they couldn't fix the problem even 3 years later?

I think it wasn't in 2000 and 2001, so maybe they screwed up again. Unfortunately 2000/2001 were like different games to 99.