Is it going to be same old same old?

With the new FM coming out fairly soon people have been talking about the new 3D match engine and all the new features, but what i haven't seen happen too often is that people talking about some of the old mistakes happening during FM 08 and whether they are fixed on this new FM 09. For example, training for players over 23 usually didn't have any sort of effect, or going the first half of the season winning and dominating every game, only to find that midway through the season players started playing awful for no apparent reason. Other examples would include 95th minute corners or free kicks in which 90% of the time they would be scored. Other examples would also include 20+ shots on target but only one goal scored, or teams such as man utd being impossible to beat whether at home or away (no matter how many times games have been restarted). I know that the new 3d engine and all other features are extemely interesting and beneficial, but i honestly care more about the things i listed above be more improved rather than still the same old mistakes occuring which ends up forcing people to quit playing the game after 3 months. So my question is that does anyone here know anything about if these things have been improved , or is the only way to find out which is by buying the game?

I think it's debatable whether all of those things exist. Some people around here will agree wholeheartedly that they exist and that they need be to gotten rid of in FM09. I tend to think that, although I've seen things like what you described happen, it has never been often enough for me to call them mistakes.

Welcome to the boards,

I agree with Mike, and some of these problems will be improved upon but they will initially advertise the new features and then (if at all) mention the older ones

If you feel like there hasn't been enough talk about FM08 vs FM09, you need to spend a little time reading the 1000s of threads on this board. I don't see anything in your post that isn't in a thread. My suggestion is to take a few minutes and read some of the threads - or do a search for something in particular. The FM community is always ready to talk and debate.

i guess it's 50/50. with new ideas and thing's in the game such as 3d etc unless it's tested to the extreme and better than other years, " which i have read it has been tested far more " you would expect there to be some issues that dont suit every FM Gamer..

or teams such as man utd being impossible to beat whether at home or away (no matter how many times games have been restarted).

They are not at all impossible to beat.

You are clearly just dont know how to set up you tactics against them, pick the right players, or deliver the correct team talks.

There are certain tendencies that have been an issue in the last few match engines that I hope will be ironed out but expect to see regardless (defensive clearances, throw-ins to the opposition, bizarre in-board passing etc) but for the most part I think a lot of the things detailed in the OP are very much controllable by the user.

i guess thats true, but im just worried that maybe people have forgotten about the frustrating aspects of the game, and i just wanted to take into consideration whether these things would be improved in the new game, in which simple tactics and instructions with a good training is what did the job rather than having to come up with some ridiculous tactics where shape of formation would not be attempted by any real life manager b/c its too risky and would be done only on fm just to get that 1 goal a game, which i must say takes away a bit of the realism of the game.

So basically in this case would you long time FM faithfuls suggest to get the game once it comes out, or wait until i read the reviews on the boards and see peoples opinions and then make a choice between FM 08 and 09 ?

I would suggest reading the boards, enjoying the blogs when they start at the end of the week, try out the demo in the next few weeks, and then decide.

thanks for all quick suggestions, really appreciate it

i guess thats true, but im just worried that maybe people have forgotten about the frustrating aspects of the game, and i just wanted to take into consideration whether these things would be improved in the new game, in which simple tactics and instructions with a good training is what did the job rather than having to come up with some ridiculous tactics where shape of formation would not be attempted by any real life manager b/c its too risky and would be done only on fm just to get that 1 goal a game, which i must say takes away a bit of the realism of the game.

As if we could forget about the frustrating aspects of the game! But think about it. Real life football, even at the very top, must still be very frustrating for managers at times. I'm sure Alex Ferguson was more than frustrated when Man. United battered Arsenal for 120 minutes of the 2005 FA Cup final only to lose on penalties (or was it 2006? I forget!). In my experience, simple tactics are actually crucial to getting the best out of your team. I certainly don't believe you need 'ridiculous' tactics.

So basically in this case would you long time FM faithfuls suggest to get the game once it comes out, or wait until i read the reviews on the boards and see peoples opinions and then make a choice between FM 08 and 09 ?

I would just get the game, even if you find yourself going back to FM08 at least you'll have FM09 to try out when its patched up.

I reckon the problem isn't so much the game 'bugs', its the way the game communicates with us so we are aware of what the problem is.

Team talks is a good example. the teamtalk feedback is crap! mostly not listening or interested.... not really what you'd expect, so picking up on what you are doing wrong is damn near impossible.

So basically in this case would you long time FM faithfuls suggest to get the game once it comes out, or wait until i read the reviews on the boards and see peoples opinions and then make a choice between FM 08 and 09 ?

I wouldn't rely on other peoples opinions on the game, I prefer to draw my own conclusions by playing it my self.

I mean, it's FM by SI, it's a cert to be "Solid".

true, i guess we'll have to see and find out. Also i hope the part that far more testing has been put in the game is true, which i believe cuz that seems like something SI would do.

I would just get the game, even if you find yourself going back to FM08 at least you'll have FM09 to try out when its patched up.

There really is no point. If you have doubts don't buy it until you're sure, the demo will give you a good indication of what you'll be likely to get I think. The game won't disappear from the shops, it'll still be on sale two, three or eight months after the release and it'll probably then be cheaper as well.

Personally I do think I'm going against my previous words this year and I've already pre-ordered FM09. It's more than £10 cheaper in my country than FM08 was on release date (cost about £40 last year, under £30 this time around), plus when I think about it, despite my very critical posts on these forums I've never actually come to regret buying an FM game. I can always cancel the order if there will be some serious problems revealed in the demo (like there were with 08).

What I'm trying to say though is, if you think there's a chance it might not be worth it for you then there's no reason to pre-order or rush out to buy it on release date.

or going the first half of the season winning and dominating every game, only to find that midway through the season players started playing awful for no apparent reason.

Two words: Charlton Athletic.

In my experience (and from comments I've read) here's how I see it:

Training for players over 23 usually didn't have any sort of effect -- SI have said training has been revised. Whether this is included I'm not sure.

Going the first half of the season winning and dominating every game, only to find that midway through the season players started playing awful for no apparent reason -- not sure if this is actually programmed but I find this quite realistic. How many clubs use exactly the same training regime all year round? I usually start playing badly around January so tweak my training schedules at bit, and this does nip the problem in the bud.

95th minute corners or free kicks in which 90% of the time they would be scored -- I know everyone hates to hear this but it's tactical. if you don't go ultra-defensive when the AI goes 4-2-4 you will concede. It's unrealistic, and I hope it's fixed, but it's a piece of cake to counter (or you can delete the tactic from your PC if you know how to do that).

20+ shots on target but only one goal scored -- again, tactics. Again, unrealistic, but easily fixed with a bit of thought.

Teams such as man utd being impossible to beat whether at home or away (no matter how many times games have been restarted) -- not impossible, just very hard. FM08 relied too much on team talks and press comments to win you matches; if you get this wrong there's little you can do tactically to pick your team up. THIS is what needs fixing. Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, all can be beaten; I beat Chelsea with a Championship Leeds team with no cheating (unless you include picking players from the good player forum cheating).

I know that the new 3d engine and all other features are extemely interesting and beneficial, but i honestly care more about the things i listed above be more improved rather than still the same old mistakes occuring which ends up forcing people to quit playing the game after 3 months -- I agree with you in hoping that what you've mentioned is improved, but I'm more concerned about board confidence and the transfer system than the gameplay, since most of the issues you've mentioned are more annoyances than outright bugs and can be overcome with a combination of the 8.0.2 patch and a bit of thought and patience.

So my question is that does anyone here know anything about if these things have been improved , or is the only way to find out which is by buying the game? -- I expect the demo should tell you a lot. Probably 31st Oct/1st Nov if history is anything to go by.

Good luck, and I hope this version pleases you more than the previous one.

I have to say though, if I get a throw-in in my defensive half and watch my player throw it down the line to the opposition, and concede a goal from it, I'll probably throw it in the bin before I've even begun.

Did it even come up in 08 testing how often you bypass your own players to throw to the AI, even with throw-ins set to short?

I have to say though, if I get a throw-in in my defensive half and watch my player throw it down the line to the opposition, and concede a goal from it, I'll probably throw it in the bin before I've even begun.

Did it even come up in 08 testing how often you bypass your own players to throw to the AI, even with throw-ins set to short?

The game engine is the same one as in FML apparently, its had thousands of playing hours which have been used to make tweaks to it. as a result I've high hopes things like that will be fixed!

With the new FM coming out fairly soon people have been talking about the new 3D match engine and all the new features, but what i haven't seen happen too often is that people talking about some of the old mistakes happening during FM 08 and whether they are fixed on this new FM 09. For example, training for players over 23 usually didn't have any sort of effect, or going the first half of the season winning and dominating every game, only to find that midway through the season players started playing awful for no apparent reason. Other examples would include 95th minute corners or free kicks in which 90% of the time they would be scored. Other examples would also include 20+ shots on target but only one goal scored, or teams such as man utd being impossible to beat whether at home or away (no matter how many times games have been restarted). I know that the new 3d engine and all other features are extemely interesting and beneficial, but i honestly care more about the things i listed above be more improved rather than still the same old mistakes occuring which ends up forcing people to quit playing the game after 3 months. So my question is that does anyone here know anything about if these things have been improved , or is the only way to find out which is by buying the game?

So how did I beat them 3-1 at Old Trafford with the mighty Sunderland (1st season). Most of the so-called problems can be solved with the correct tactics, team and team-talks you can theoretically beat everyone

I beat Man U 2-0 away with Preston(second season, got promoted first) and drew with them 4-4 at home(they scored a late equaliser).

It must be your tactics! Sorry but it had to come up somewhere.

I've never beaten Man. United. But then, I am managing them, so I don't think it really counts.

For example, training for players over 23 usually didn't have any sort of effect,

Thats how it's meant to be. I can't see a problem with it, they can still improve after turning 23 but less so than when they are younger, make sense to me.

or going the first half of the season winning and dominating every game, only to find that midway through the season players started playing awful for no apparent reason.

Could be many reasons, training, morale, inexperience.

Other examples would include 95th minute corners or free kicks in which 90% of the time they would be scored.

Can't say I've ever noticed this problem.

Other examples would also include 20+ shots on target but only one goal scored,

I love it when this happens... I'm playing a Boro game atm, and I manage to win and draw games that we are getting hammered in.

or teams such as man utd being impossible to beat whether at home or away (no matter how many times games have been restarted).

Man Utd are pretty hard to beat IRL. Not impossible, but neither is it on the game. You're obviously getting your tactics wrong, don't feel bad. Many managers IRL can't beat them easily either.

If you complained about the others major issues that need fixing, I'd agree that I would perhaps prefer them to be fixed before adding a 3D ME but these things are generally happening because of your management/style tactics.

Unfortunately there is nothing in the original post that is anything more than perception.

You haven't even played the game yet and you are already speculating about problems. If I spot anything in FM09, I will probably say "well that's stupid" then move on and forget about it and enjoy the game. That seems much better than waiting to find the first problem.

I love it when this happens... I'm playing a Boro game atm, and I manage to win and draw games that we are getting hammered in.

Same here, I started a new game with Everton recently and in my first 14 games I think I had the upper hand against Sunderland and that was it

Ill be happy as long as they fix the superkeepers (it might happen once or twice a season but not 8-10 times) and the magic 4-2-4. (yes we can counter it but no tactic should be that effective in the 1st place).

Try managing someone else then it won't be the same

of the new features that have been announced ive been pretty unimpressed

i was hoping for an overhaul in the tactics set up but it doesnt seem like this has happened

still, i look forward to being able to play as a woman :[