What happens here?

I posted this a little while back but nobody responded (probably due to bad graphics on youtube.)

So here is a decent version of the movie. Huge error in Football Manager 2008 defending? I have nu clue what my defender is doing here. (Number4:Heitinga - you can see me pointing my cursor at him during movie)

Movie:

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=11htr1d&s=4

Looks like he forgot what team he was playing for lol

It was your fault, you left 1 defender back, he marked the opponents furthest forward player thinking a long clearance would be aimed at him but was causght out by a cheeky pass to the player coming from deep.

Like I said it was all your fault & quite obviously down to your player instructions/tactics.

Are you kiddin' me ? He was on Zonal marking and NOT tight. So there's no reason for him to mark the other dude. And its not like he has decisions: 1 or playing lower league football. This is Heitinga! Surely this is a bug.

Are you kiddin' me ? He was on Zonal marking and NOT tight. So there's no reason for him to mark the other dude. And its not like he has decisions: 1 or playing lower league football. This is Heitinga! Surely this is a bug.

If he'd not been marking the one player they had forward and they played the ball to him and he scored, you'd be here saying it's a bug that Hetinga didn't mark him

Nope. Thats why he was on zonal marking. Because he's a smart player. He knows who to defend. Especially since you see the rest of Real Madrid doesnt care anymore and stays back. Close to the end off defenders are still close to eachother.

And seriously. Would a defender ever run back to his goalkeeper instead of closing down a man through on goal?

Nope. Thats why he was on zonal marking. Because he's a smart player. He knows who to defend. Especially since you see the rest of Real Madrid doesnt care anymore and stays back. Close to the end off defenders are still close to eachother.

And seriously. Would a defender ever run back to his goalkeeper instead of closing down a man through on goal?

Maybe he didn't close down as he realised that if he did and was beaten then the player was clean through. Was probably trying to give his team mates time to get back. Seriously though, this in no way looks like a bug

Maybe he didn't close down as he realised that if he did and was beaten then the player was clean through. Was probably trying to give his team mates time to get back. Seriously though, this in no way looks like a bug

"Hmm... Robinho is through on goal... so if I dont close him down and just run back to my goalkeeper, perhaps he wont score..."

right ...

"Hmm... Robinho is through on goal... so if I dont close him down and just run back to my goalkeeper, perhaps he wont score..."

right ...

Think about it though, Robinho is one of the best dribblers in the game so if the last defender runs straight over to close down Robinho will just go past him and be clean through, thats why you always see defenders standing off Ronaldo etc.. irl, cause they know if they close down too much and dive in then he'll just go straight past them. Thats why defenders are payed 40-50 grand a week and you play FM.

I'm not normally one to discuss tactics but you've missed the basic point of defending. You left 1 player back yet your opponents had 2 or possibly 3 players to pick out, no matter what decision your defender made he would have left a player free on goal.

Decision a) mark the most advanced player & leave space for the runner from deep.

Decision b) anticipate a pass to the runner from deep, player on the ball switches the pass to the player your defender has just left unmarked.

Decision c) defender marks space in the middle & gives the player on the ball two targets who can then play a one-two around your defender.

Basically you left your keeper woefully exposed, here ends my one & only real world tactical lesson.

I still feel that if you got Decision and Concentration skills he should've closed him down no mather what the consequenses are. This is just letting him go straight through. Oh well... perhaps I just suck at fm. Won my first 12 games then lost 9 in a row. Weird stuff.

surely if you are 2 vs 1 like heitinga was here, then you close down the player with the ball.....especially if he is going to be through on goal. You dont just stay with your man because there really is no point in marking him if a player is going to run through on goal.

I agree with neckus.

Watch the clip, the defender made a move to check the run of the most advanced player, (before the pass was made) once the ball had been made to the other striker he turned & started to chase him him down.

To break it down he (the defender) turned to his right & followed the runner (back to his goal), the ball was played to his blind side so he turned again (not an easy thing to do) & tried head off the attacker, it just so happened that he wasn't quick enough in his reaction time for the change of direction to try & block the forwards run.

What happened in this clip is an absolute 100% accurate representation of what would happen IRL & anyone with a half decent understanding of football would be able to see that it's not a bug.

Your lone defender is simply being out-number.

It is absolutely normal he is in deep panic and even the best defender cant do much in such situation.

What happened in this clip is an absolute 100% accurate representation of what would happen IRL & anyone with a half decent understanding of football would be able to see that it's not a bug.

Have to agree, i dont think this is a bug at all.

Yea, he might better pick and closing down the one with the ball. But defender can make wrong decision, especially in such panic moment....

Have to agree, i dont think this is a bug at all.

Cheers for the backing:thup:, I normally don't like seeing it but if ever there was a time to say 'It's your tactics' to the OP this is one of them.

Edit: I should add, why has the OP got a striker standing on the keeper & so many players in advanced positions with only 8 minutes to go? Considering the opposition only have a throw-in, which is well inside their own half such a line up is suicide & shows tactical naiveté.

Edit#2: We really need a warning that another post has been made before you can submit an edit, I meant no personal slight neckus, just making an observation & I appreciate that you've more or less accepted my interpretation of your clip.

Barside had a good point. I must admit. But then I feel (personally) its only explainable by the statement: "He was in panic for being last defender (unproffesional but ok.)"

Edit: I should add, why has the OP got a striker standing on the keeper & so many players in advanced positions with only 8 minutes to go? Considering the opposition only have a throw in which is well inside their own half such a line up is suicide & shows tactical naiveté.

It might down to some default individual player instruction of attacking freekick, attacking corner, and attacking throw in.

In the last 10 mins the AI will try to push everyone forward. Even they concede a corner or a dangerous freekick/throw in, they will still have 4 attackers up front in hope of a counter attack from a long ball.

To counter that, you might need a specific defensive time wasting or counter attack tactic for the last 10 mins, which have 4 or 5 players "stay at back all time" in any attacking corner, freekick, throw in situation in order to prevent counter attack like that.

Unfortuntalely this thread has now fully stepped in to areas that I will not go.

Looking at that clip, there is actually quite a few very basic footballing errors in that passage of play:

1. From the throw, leaving two players unmarked, goal side, is an unbelievably basic error.

2.Heitinga as last man should have the common sense to drop deeper and have the play in view, in front of him, giving him a better basis to make any defensive decisions.

3. Once the ball goes to Robinho, his priority is to block his route to goal, not man-mark the player off the ball.

4. The other Real striker, rather than bust a gut to continue the 2 on 1 and give a potential square pass, decides he's going to walk towards the area meaning 5/6 Ajax players are closer to the goal by the end of the play.

What happened in this clip is an absolute 100% accurate representation of what would happen IRL & anyone with a half decent understanding of football would be able to see that it's not a bug.

So i must say, i tend to disagree with this statement.

Looking at that clip, there is actually quite a few very basic footballing errors in that passage of play:

1. From the throw, leaving two players unmarked, goal side, is an unbelievably basic error.

2.Heitinga as last man should have the common sense to drop deeper and have the play in view, in front of him, giving him a better basis to make any defensive decisions.

3. Once the ball goes to Robinho, his priority is to block his route to goal, not man-mark the player off the ball.

4. The other Real striker, rather than bust a gut to continue the 2 on 1 and give a potential square pass, decides he's going to walk towards the area meaning 5/6 Ajax players are closer to the goal by the end of the play.

So i must say, i tend to disagree with this statement.

You've just agreed with my points but have then said I'm wrong, I don't get it as the errors are caused by the OP's player instructions & tactics.

1. OP tells his players what to do in set piece situations

2. If the defender drops deeper then yes he'll have a few more seconds to make a decision, this however is on the assumption that the OP has not set a high line defence which is likely looking at the starting positions of the other Ajax players.

3. That's exactly what he did, the player turned & tried to head off his run.

4. The original marked player after doing his job just decided not to make a forward run, why bother? Robinho will most likely score in a 1on1 situation.

All your points actually back up my ascertian that this is not a bug but a tactical mistake on the part of the OP (I seem to be picking on this fella, I really don't mean to)

Looking at that clip, there is actually quite a few very basic footballing errors in that passage of play:

1. From the throw, leaving two players unmarked, goal side, is an unbelievably basic error.

2.Heitinga as last man should have the common sense to drop deeper and have the play in view, in front of him, giving him a better basis to make any defensive decisions.

3. Once the ball goes to Robinho, his priority is to block his route to goal, not man-mark the player off the ball.

4. The other Real striker, rather than bust a gut to continue the 2 on 1 and give a potential square pass, decides he's going to walk towards the area meaning 5/6 Ajax players are closer to the goal by the end of the play.

1, Agree, the tactic or set out is at fault at the first place.

2, Agree, Heitinga should position himself better, with a reasonable distance between the 2 strikers in order to react.

3, Agree, but actually Heitinga did try to chase Robinho but it is just far and too late.

4, I dont know, may be he is tired or lazy. I think it is usual IRL too.

Other than the wrong tactical set out, i think the only thing we can blame is the positioning of Heitinga, who should stand deeper and in-between the 2 attackers. He made the wrong decision to mark one of them and was punished, as he have no chance to catch up the run of Robinho later on.

However, this kind of situation can be seen very often IRL. The defender might lost the concentration, tired or lack of experience or just simply make an wrong judgement.

Therefore, i dont think this can be seen as a bug.

This is probably an endless discussion. I personally feel that players like Heitinga would not make mistakes like that IRL. Of course peopel dissagree again but thats my opinion. Otherwise there are only 4 good defenders in this game.

Endless discussion, no discussion, no pleasing you is there.

Well... I havent been pleased in years

You've just agreed with my points but have then said I'm wrong, I don't get it as the errors are caused by the OP's player instructions & tactics.

1. OP tells his players what to do in set piece situations

2. If the defender drops deeper then yes he'll have a few more seconds to make a decision, this however is on the assumption that the OP has not set a high line defence which is likely looking at the starting positions of the other Ajax players.

3. That's exactly what he did, the player turned & tried to head off his run.

4. The original marked player after doing his job just decided not to make a forward run, why bother? Robinho will most likely score in a 1on1 situation.

All your points actually back up my ascertian that this is not a bug but a tactical mistake on the part of the OP (I seem to be picking on this fella, I really don't mean to)

My point is that no matter what tactical instructions that have been used, those 4 'errors' should never happen in the match engine. This is for the simple reason that players are not robots, and have to have a degree of common footballing sense.

1. There is no instructions for marking at throw-ins. Marking the closest few players to the thrower and being goal-side is a very simple part of football.

2. Even with a high D-line, as last defender, Heitinga should have the common sense to drop deeper, again this is very basic.

3. Well he first runs off with the other Real striker which would not have happened if he had done point 2.

4. Any decent striker would jump at a potentially goal scoring chance like that. Maybe the player was tired or generally lazy, but if Robinho had missed the chance, and i was Real manager, i would be furious with that player (so maybe i accept this could happen, but it should be very rare at the top level).

I don't actually think these are 'bugs' (a word used far too much) but rather just small tweaks to the match engine that would make it alot more realistic and enjoyable imo. Obviously the OP was playing some ridiculously attacking formation and no doubt deserved to concede a goal. I just don't agree with the way in which this was done on the match engine.

What happened in this clip is an absolute 100% accurate representation of what would happen IRL & anyone with a half decent understanding of football would be able to see that it's not a bug.

I have to disagree with this part of your statement, Robinho would have got to goal a hell of alot faster than in irl cos I feel speed doesn't have much in this game, the amount of times I've had C. Ronaldo in my saves and with defenders and full backs catching up with him after he started ahead it just doesn't happen irl! Once he is past the last defender they know he is through on goal cos they just can't catch up and normally can't even keep up with him! What happened is definately not a bug but the speed factor needs to actually mean something in these games.

I think the bug with this is you need a left sided player, a central player, and a right sided player to stay back. The players revert to their 'side' when going back.

It's a bug.

I think the bug with this is you need a left sided player, a central player, and a right sided player to stay back. The players revert to their 'side' when going back.

It's a bug.

Interesting. You might be right. Heitinga in this case was the DRC. So the moment Diarra makes contact with the ball the first thing the Match Engine does is move players to their original position (or in some cases move players to positions with a barrow) so Heitinga moved back to the DRC position therefor causing him to place himself at a total wrong position. So this MIGHT mean than Decisions is not developed 'well' enough. And even though it was the fault of the DLC its still a 'bug' that the defender would first think... what is my position instead of ..."Crap! There goes Robinho!"

this clip is a good represntation of how a player with attribute-1 in positioning, decisions and team work might react. not johnny heitinga.

and him marking the other real striker, who's just standing there (!!!) is even more ridicoulus situation.

This is probably an endless discussion. I personally feel that players like Heitinga would not make mistakes like that IRL. Of course peopel dissagree again but thats my opinion. Otherwise there are only 4 good defenders in this game.

Even the best do make mistakes.

My point is that no matter what tactical instructions that have been used, those 4 'errors' should never happen in the match engine. This is for the simple reason that players are not robots, and have to have a degree of common footballing sense.

1. There is no instructions for marking at throw-ins. Marking the closest few players to the thrower and being goal-side is a very simple part of football.

2. Even with a high D-line, as last defender, Heitinga should have the common sense to drop deeper, again this is very basic.

3. Well he first runs off with the other Real striker which would not have happened if he had done point 2.

4. Any decent striker would jump at a potentially goal scoring chance like that. Maybe the player was tired or generally lazy, but if Robinho had missed the chance, and i was Real manager, i would be furious with that player (so maybe i accept this could happen, but it should be very rare at the top level).

I don't actually think these are 'bugs' (a word used far too much) but rather just small tweaks to the match engine that would make it alot more realistic and enjoyable imo. Obviously the OP was playing some ridiculously attacking formation and no doubt deserved to concede a goal. I just don't agree with the way in which this was done on the match engine.

Im sorry but your lack of knowledge astounds me. Ive ready this entire thread and this is some of the lowest football knowledge ive ever seen. Just becuase someone is the best in the world at what they do does not mean they do not make mistakes.

1. Ok i do agree with this.

2. Once again IRL players make mistakes at even the top end of football. IIRC it was late in the game this happened. The OP appears to have went all out attack. Heitinga appears to also be doing this as well. If your manager told you to attack would you hold back so you can see more of the game.

3. Again everyone in the world makes mistakes.

4. Again late in a game. I never played football at this level i admit, but once your tired and a team mate you know is good enough to score in a one on one id very rarley chase, i would save my energy because i know with me not wasting my energy to not touch the ball and just celebrate with my team mate quicker i would offer more to my side in the next move and so forth.

I still feel that if you got Decision and Concentration skills he should've closed him down no mather what the consequenses are. This is just letting him go straight through. Oh well... perhaps I just suck at fm. Won my first 12 games then lost 9 in a row. Weird stuff.

it does not matter if your bramble or bobby moore you defenders will only close down if you tell them too.

Yea, surely you have take into account even the best can make silly mistake on the field which nobody can explain.

Just look at the backpass from Coles in the England 5-1 Kazakhstan match. If you simulate that into the FM ME then some of you might say it is a bug OR it "should not" be happen for professional footballer blab blab blab......

Hey, but why shouldn't it happened??

Even the best do make mistakes.

Im sorry but your lack of knowledge astounds me. Ive ready this entire thread and this is some of the lowest football knowledge ive ever seen. Just becuase someone is the best in the world at what they do does not mean they do not make mistakes.

1. Ok i do agree with this.

2. Once again IRL players make mistakes at even the top end of football. IIRC it was late in the game this happened. The OP appears to have went all out attack. Heitinga appears to also be doing this as well. If your manager told you to attack would you hold back so you can see more of the game.

3. Again everyone in the world makes mistakes.

4. Again late in a game. I never played football at this level i admit, but once your tired and a team mate you know is good enough to score in a one on one id very rarley chase, i would save my energy because i know with me not wasting my energy to not touch the ball and just celebrate with my team mate quicker i would offer more to my side in the next move and so forth.

Well you're responses quite clearly demonstrate to me that you've never played at a higher level than park football. You're tactically knowledge of actually playing football is well below a basic level. You haven't disproven any of my points with your answers.

1.-

2. If i was the only defender back then of course i would. I can not convey to you how unbelievably basic this is.

3. Yes people do make mistakes like mis-placing passes, missing chances etc. But an international quality defender not closing down a stiker who is clean through on goal i can not accept.

4.- Well as i said i accept that this one could actually happen.

Even the best do make mistakes.

Im sorry but your lack of knowledge astounds me. Ive ready this entire thread and this is some of the lowest football knowledge ive ever seen. Just becuase someone is the best in the world at what they do does not mean they do not make mistakes.

1. Ok i do agree with this.

2. Once again IRL players make mistakes at even the top end of football. IIRC it was late in the game this happened. The OP appears to have went all out attack. Heitinga appears to also be doing this as well. If your manager told you to attack would you hold back so you can see more of the game.

3. Again everyone in the world makes mistakes.

4. Again late in a game. I never played football at this level i admit, but once your tired and a team mate you know is good enough to score in a one on one id very rarley chase, i would save my energy because i know with me not wasting my energy to not touch the ball and just celebrate with my team mate quicker i would offer more to my side in the next move and so forth.

defender going off the player with the ball, marking the other one, which doesn't even move forward... maybe you should start thnking to open an academy with such football knowledge.