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More game options?


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Not been on these forums for a while, so apologies if any of the following been said before. Did a search, as normal nothing useful came up.

As someone who has played plenty of versions of Champ Man (up to 01/02), and now Football Manager 08, I feel one of the main attractions of these games is the balance between frustration and enjoyment. The little frustrations you can feel keep you coming back for more, to prove yourself, and the enjoyment you feel when you solve the problem. In the older versions, I felt this balance was spot on. But I never got into FM08 as too many things became frustrating to truly enjoy the game. Stuff like endless transfer bids, board confidence, tactics too in-depth for my liking, all things that we've seen on these forums before.

For those old enough, like me, to remember those first amiga Champ Man games back in the early 90's, the games were both simple and complex. Lots of in depth stats, massive player database for the time, but so simple to use and progress at your own pace. Another couple of amiga management games I owned from that time, First Division Manager and Striker Manager, paled in comparison. Their gimmick was to show highlights of the matches, rather than concentrate on depth of gameplay. Thats why, when I borrowed FM05 off a mate for a month, I was disappointed to see a 2-D display. I felt it was unnecessary, and its why I'm a little wary of going to 3-D. I'd rather SI concentrate on the gameplay than fancy graphics. But I'm not here to moan about that, I'm willing to try anything once.

My point here is that, as every new version of FM adds extra features, it means having to learn more and more, and how to manipulate this or excel at them. I've never been great with tactics, but feel I'm good in the transfer market, and can build up a smaller club that way. In 08 though, it seemed to take so long to get through a week with all the messages I wasn't interested in, all the bids for players I didn't want to know about, repetitive media interaction that was fun the first dozen times but just irritating the hundreth, that I just grew frustrated with it all. Then having found the players I wanted, I bought them in, only for the board to sell them on a month later for a fee that wouldn't have even got me talking to the buying club.

When you start a new game, you get to choose database size, language, a billionaire owner and so on, and in game you can choose what pitch view, 2-D, 3-D or commentary you'd like, so how about some more options to create a custom or personalised game for each player? Such as:-

*Press conferences on/off - incase they become repetitive, or too time consuming for those who want to get through a season a little quicker.

*Set player transfer status to unavailable, or that you don't get told of any bids under a set value for that player - If you made it clear you didn't want to sell a player, it'd be nice to only recieve worthwhile bids, if at all, and not just the same half price offers for your star players every week. You get to see which clubs are interested in your players anyway on the profile screens, so I don't need messages telling me to name a price every day. An option to tell them to come back with 'X million' or not bother would be nice.

*Board can/cannot accept bids on your behalf - yes, in real life the board can go behind the managers back. But not as often as can happen in the game, and not with plenty of millions in the bank, and no need to sell.

*Set a level of media interaction (e.g often/rare) - Again, to help speed things up, or to stop repetitiveness. if you only want the odd media question, or you want questions about everything from the press, its your choice.

These are just a few examples, there's probably some more that could be used.

I know people will say 'its unrealistic' or making it easier, and maybe in some instances they'll have a point. But its my time and my money I've spent on this game, and with that in mind, I want to enjoy it. Rather than the previously suggested difficulty setting, doing it this way would let you include more of what you felt happy with, without making the core game easier in anyway. After all, you still have to create winning tactics, buy good players and beat the other teams. I'm not asking for any options to reduce the effectiveness of CPU managers or anything like that.

I'd love to see this kind of thing implemented this year, as I really want a Football Manager game I can get into like the games of old. I appreciate the time and effort thats gone into all the new features in the last few years, and I'm in no way discounting the possibility that this years version will get me hooked once more. indeed, it may be that this years version fixes many of the problems and frustrations I encountered with last years release. I just think if we, the players, get to choose more of what we do and don't want included (thats feasible anyway - stuff that won't impact too much overall) then it'll make for an even more pleasing experience.

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Tbh i've read far too many threads about new additions that are justified with "it could be optional" so I didn't really read all of this, but IMO if we start making more options where does it stop? We'll have to fill in an application form before we start every new game.

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My point here wasn't that I wanted more new features, more that the new ones which not everyone may get the most out of could be made optional.

If you wanted the full experience, you wouldn't be filling in 'application forms', you could just click on a button that said 'full experience' or something similar and get going.

I'd like it so everyone can enjoy this game in the way they feel comfortable with.

I'd have no problem spending ten minutes setting up my game if I'd reap the benefits later on. Is that such a problem?

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I would like to see that plus turn sacking off

That's the type of thing that puts me right off the idea of options, there would be hundreds of things people would request and because they are options, there's no reason for them not to be included.

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In my opinion many people are against having options to make the game easier because they don't trust themselves to avoid the temptation of using them

Projecting your insecurities over others is generally speaking bad.

If you don't like the options then do not use the options, that simple.

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When you can not oppose an idea ridicule it !

How do you know I wasn't being serious? After all, if we start making integral aspects of the game optional where do we end?

I'd imagine a number of game aspects are too inter-woven into other parts of the game to just be able to turn them off also.

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I tried to post a detailed thread about this idea, giving my reasons why, not just saying 'we should get options.'

If you don't like it, thats your view, I have no problem with it.

Like I said, you can ignore all these options and just play on as normal. I wasn't particularly after options to make the game easier, more to make the game more sutable to each individual. If you read my first post you would realise that.

Nomis - I see your point. As I understand, you're worried that something like this would spiral out of control? Every little thing would have to be optional?

Thats not what I want either. More just the ability to manager the newer features that some of us aren't sure about.

On match days, you get to choose the view, be it the old commentary or the new 3-d. so why not give us the option to choose the older style over the new in other areas that have been introduced in the last couple of editions of the game, like the press questions?

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How do you know I wasn't being serious? After all, if we start making integral aspects of the game optional where do we end?

You don't expect me to quote 1000's of cheap posts you conservatives made in all similar threads right?

I'd imagine a number of game aspects are too inter-woven into other parts of the game to just be able to turn them off also.

More options to make the game n00b friendly can not be bad.

09 will have a brand new 3d engine so the ethical question will be much more intense , sexy football or victories ? so far all fm/cm games were result focused , turning sucking of will bring fresh air in the game ( like playing football just for the beauty of it not for winning ) and i don't know if you ultra conservatives can deal with it .

All the ideas OP brought are good , i am getting sick of click fests with media and bids for players , i am already sick with stockholders sucking the blood of the club and chairmen destroying everything i am trying to create ; with options everyone would be able to achieve the realism he likes ( and trust me not everyone liking what you like is a possibility )

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Is that a bad thing?

To each his own.

I used to agree that having options would be good for most things but the more I think about it - the more I realise that its not needed.

FM is a simulation of real life and I imagine for most players - that is exactly what they like about the game. If you start having options for being unsackable etc you begin to take away the core gameplay ie you lose the focus on what the game is about :)

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More options to make the game n00b friendly can not be bad.

09 will have a brand new 3d engine so the ethical question will be much more intense , sexy football or victories ? so far all fm/cm games were result focused , turning sucking of will bring fresh air in the game ( like playing football just for the beauty of it not for winning ) and i don't know if you ultra conservatives can deal with it .

All the ideas OP brought are good , i am getting sick of click fests with media and bids for players , i am already sick with stockholders sucking the blood of the club and chairmen destroying everything i am trying to create ; with options everyone would be able to achieve the realism he likes ( and trust me not everyone liking what you like is a possibility )

I have no interest at all in all the pointless media interaction, I think team talks totally ruin the game and I can't be doing with various other aspects, but the game is what it is. More options means a potentially vast amount more bugs that can come in from different combinations of options and bits of the game missed out here and there.

Cosmetic options are fine, but when you start having fundamental aspects of the game being optional I just don't see the point. There are other football management games that don't include some of these features. If it could be 100% guaranteed that just slicing team talks out of the game with the simple click of a tickbox would be a smooth operation that would introduce absolutely zero new bugs or other undesired effects that hadn't been considered by the optional removal of a game component then I wouldn't be too fussed, but not otherwise.

I played a Formula 1 game a while back in which you could set difficulty level using a %-based slider which was ludicrous. It meant you could set the difficulty level to be so easy you could win easily in the worst car or so hard you couldn't avoid finishing last in the best car and God help all those people like me who just wanted to play the game with some sensible level of realism and have to get used to that level to achieve realistic success or not.

Who determines which aspects of the game will be optional and where do we stop the customisation? I believe team talks shouldn't be included in the game because there is no way they can ever be implemented correctly, but since they are in the game its a "realism" aspect we have to come to terms with if we want to play the FM series rather than some other football management game.

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And with regards to style of football, I don't quite see why a 3d match engine will change that much, but I currently put style ahead of results and will carry on doing. If I get sacked then so be it - the possibility of me getting sacked makes sure that I do my best to get the results as well as playing the style of football I want rather than just playing fancy dan football and losing every week.

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I think it is, yeah. So many different games would make it hard to answer peoples questions on here and the forums would die.

I doubt it. The questions asked aren't going to be related to being unsackable, forced wins (:D), no chairman interference - they'll be related to being sackable, not being able to win and chairman interference. Answering questions will be a lot easier without these things.

I used to agree that having options would be good for most things but the more I think about it - the more I realise that its not needed.

FM is a simulation of real life and I imagine for most players - that is exactly what they like about the game. If you start having options for being unsackable etc you begin to take away the core gameplay ie you lose the focus on what the game is about :)

It's not a simulation of real-life. Games are games - they're meant to be fun and life isn't always fun.

Not everyone plays the game "correctly". There's cheating methods, editing methods, total destruction methods, and so on. If there's support for something, it should be considered.

Of course, realism does come first - in the sense that these options will be left absent by default.

We already have an option which modifies the realism vs. fun argument - Move matches for TV revenue. Unchecking it makes games, especially network ones, run faster, but at the expense of "realism" as, say, Champions League group stage games are played over two days. It's not controversial but it is "unrealistic".

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And with regards to style of football, I don't quite see why a 3d match engine will change that much, but I currently put style ahead of results and will carry on doing. If I get sacked then so be it - the possibility of me getting sacked makes sure that I do my best to get the results as well as playing the style of football I want rather than just playing fancy dan football and losing every week.

That's where we disagree , results are not everything for everyone , i love to test formations and tactics or play all out attack without care about who wins , this is the very fundamental of football since it is a game .

Every year SI puts more obstacles to the casual gamer introducing some extra annoying features and with more options (like those OP proposed) we would be able to keep them out .

3D engine will make the game much more immersed , i mean you will be able to see your team playing , not dots.I find it utterly sick people cheering for winning 1-0 after their team played crap with everyone behind the ball and time wasting ; this passes the wrong massage after all , it is like making genocide a feature in a strategy game and then hand it to kids.

I don't get this about F1 , if you do not like playing on easy setting then don't play on easy setting , it is very egoistic to want difficulty levels out of games because you are unable to choose which level suits you best.

No game is what it is , this is why the forums exist , to come and ask for something you want , customers must always ask for more and nothing is "given" in the market.

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It's not a simulation of real-life.

Yes, it is.

We already have an option which modifies the realism vs. fun argument - Move matches for TV revenue. Unchecking it makes games, especially network ones, run faster, but at the expense of "realism" as, say, Champions League group stage games are played over two days. It's not controversial but it is "unrealistic".

I never said we should be sacrificing fun for realism (red some of my other posts about this subject). BUT the core gameplay of FM is based around realism - if you take away all the options that make it realistic then you sacrifice the core gameplay, IMO :thup:

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Yes, it is.

I never said we should be sacrificing fun for realism (red some of my other posts about this subject). BUT the core gameplay of FM is based around realism - if you take away all the options that make it realistic then you sacrifice the core gameplay, IMO :thup:

You sacrifice the core gameplay, not SI. You can choose to play in any way you want. In reality, no manager is going to go out and buy Zuiverloon, Aquino, Fazio, Breno and Guilherme in the middle of July.

Some people play realistically and some people play in funny ways. I don't blame people for wanting certain options which help them play in the way they want, but if it doesn't take a great deal of programming and it doesn't sound stupid (i.e. will always win when on holiday) then why shouldn't it be put in to satisfy what seems to be a fairly large minority?

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