a question on ai managers

I have a few problems with the ai representation of managers on fm.

these are them:

1) managers seem to just have one preferred system which they stick to rigidly. by that I am referring of course the system that they start with. now if we're talking about javier irureta this is a correct representation, but otherwise it's wrong. ferguson will use 442, 433 etc depending on circumstance. man united should not simply be a 433 team, just as inter should not be a 433 side more than one which could play the 41212 diamond with four central midfielders (trust me, jose will get around to using it).

2) while most managers in the premiership are fairly well representated, there is a horrible tendency to ignore managers traits abroad- I don't want to see 20 managers in serie a playing flat 442's, or all italian managers to be "defensive". I don't understand how so much detail can be put in regarding the players and yet every manager outside the premier league is a 442 merchant. it's absurd.

3) 424 when losing- few managers actually employ this shape, and certainly it's affect should not be that suddenly the defending side loses all control over the midfield. the affect should be that the attacking side plays more directly (i.e gets the ball forward with more frequency) and stretches the pitch- the attacking side should attack more, but consequently have less posession (if the defending side keeps their tactics the same)... it's a cop out to give all ai managers this approach when losing the game. some use is, many don't.

4) they don't actually have the traits they should in the transfer market- ferguson for example should be buying mainly from within the league, wenger from africa and france (and rarely spending more than £15m), moyes should look at the lower leagues when possible and ancelotti should be signing players who a) who have done well in serie a, and b) big internation stars aged 28+... he won't sign nasri and wenger won't spend £25m on curtis davies for example.

5) well, let's be honest, they're all generally much worse than they should be. I understand it's a game and things need to be forgone to make it playable, but benitez should not take liverpool to 9th place in 4 seasons, wenger should not be sacked within 3... they need to be better at their jobs.

6) regen managers need to be a lot, lot better. once the originals have retired the new managers are just generally hopeless, and the game becomes far too easy.

someof those were extreme examples- these are general points, so don't ask for save game files, that's not the point.

just wondering really if any changes have been made regarding the above?

i agree with all of those points

the ai managers are far too generic

id love to see wenger actually behaving like wenger in the transfer market or in press conferences

agrees

10

another agreeing

Agree.

I'd really like to see more personality put into the AI managers, even above them performing better. Just let them have some personality!

I agree with the point about 442. I made a mod and looked at some manager/coach preferred formations and many are left blank. Most of those coaches then get 442 as their preferred formation as it seems to be the default.

5) but benitez should not take liverpool to 9th place in 4 seasons

If Liverpool are 9th in 4 seasons time then well done benitez, i thought this thread was to show how bad ai managers were?

In general i Agree but

6) regen managers need to be a lot, lot better. once the originals have retired the new managers are just generally hopeless, and the game becomes far too easy.

Manager's CA/PA plays any role ?

1) I agree to an extent, but I have seen teams stray from their usual formation and 4-2-4 is an obvious example.

2) I hadn't noticed this, i'm pretty sure some of the German teams have played against me with 5-3-2 and Barce/Real certainly don't play 4-4-2.

3) Discussed time and time again, it's not an issue of them using 4-2-4 it's an issue of them only ever using 4-2-4 IMO. 4-2-4 should stay, but more options should be included.

4) Very difficult to implement and is way too limited. Realism can be taken too far.

5) "but benitez should not take liverpool to 9th place in 4 seasons, wenger should not be sacked within 3". Why? It's not beyond the realms of possibility, Benitez took Liverpool to 5th a couple of seasons back.

6) Not an issue in my game tbh.

I would like to also see it that when ai managers sign a big name player or just any player that comes with a hefty transfer fee, that they don't just leave the player to rot in the reserves for the next 3 seasons !

I would like to also see it that when ai managers sign a big name player or just any player that comes with a hefty transfer fee, that they don't just leave the player to rot in the reserves for the next 3 seasons !

I'd like to see it that the AI managers don't sign a big name player despite already having a big name player in that position, that's why one ends up in the reserves.

hello all.

another version of fm and I still find my post here remains essentially true.

although comically benitez has strived to prove me wrong.

I still particularly enjoy man city signing tom huddlestone to give him 3 league games over four seasons.

it's horrific stuff- if I want repeated negligence towards key areas of a game I'd go back to playing snakes and ladders- when has anyone slid down a snake? it should be slides and ladders, you know it, I know it, and deep down I imagine hasbro know it too.

Agreed Agreed

Another +1 on all points from me. Great post.

ITS LIKE YOUR READING MY MIND!

As Simon Cowell would say 1000% YES

Your through to the next round

fantastic original post. i find it quite ditressing that something for fm09 can still apply to the new one.

defenetly agree...

Totally agree, it is poor that Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool so often drop out of the top 10 so quickly. In my experience giving a manager 200/200 PA/CA doesn't make them any better in the transfer market/tactics either, it just seems to glitch a goal every so often. The suggestions in the original post would go a long way to improving the game.

Not enough variety, not enough accuracy, in general- not strong enough. And for the 10th version in a row, please do everything possible to make transfers more intelligent.

You bring up an excellent point that likely needs to be split into two streams of thought; the first would remain the issue of how ai managers actually function in terms of their 'real life' responsibilities and the second would be how well managers are researched in leagues outside of the mainstream. I play in MLS. I am sure this is an issue for lots of secondary leagues.

I suggested before managers should have their equivalents of players preferred moves.

So some managers would have PKM's on for example, scouring lower leagues for talent, numbers of transfers (wheeler-dealers), giving youth a chance, taking a chance on ageing players that might have something to offer, squad rotation, management style.

This year could we at least get this acknowledge by SI!

Excellent points. Especially with regards to the transfer market. Could add hidden manager attribs to do with the transfer market.

Shrewdness

Tendancy to speng big

Preferred players - bias towards nationallity or only sign players above or below a certain age.

The only problem with this is these characteristics could be a little too dominant and the AI may not ever step out of these boundries, despite happening for real.

EG: Wenger signing someone over the age of 12 (Arshavin) and Benitez purchasing someone who isn't Spanish (Johnson and that Greek woman with the long, black hair).

With the right implimentation I think we could well see a more accurate representaion with real life managers and the transfer market.

I don't want to see 20 managers in serie a playing flat 442's, or all italian managers to be "defensive".

While I agree with most of your remarks, I never noticed 20 managers in Italy playing a flat 442, indeed, 1 or maybe 2 do so, also they are not all defensively oriented either.

Have noticed that with 10.2 fewer managers go 4-2-4 in tha least few minutes but stay 4-4-2 but get messages telling me that the opposition are getting more attacking. Not sure if that is because my 5-2-2-1 formation was not giving up goals in the last few minutes or a change by SI

My tip: 3rd year running this goes un-noticed.

These comments have all been posted by other forum dwellers before ...

These comments have all been ignored by SI every time they are posted about.

Staff are only judged ingame on thier Reputation .... CA/PA, traits, personality etc are all ignored by the game

Staff CA/PA levels drop rapidly once the staff are all regens.

In my latest savegame (with all european leagues running) it is 2024

Out of 40,020 staff there are 203 Staff at 180+/180+

43 are Chairmen, only 3 have Chairman as thier best role, 22 have Scout as thier best role

30 are managers, 0 have manager as thier best role, 24 have Scout as thier best role

21 are AssMans, 0 have AssMan as thier best role, 15 have Scout as thier best role

19 are Physios, all 19 have Physio as thier best role.

16 are Coaches, 5 have Coach as thier best role, 7 have Scout as thier best role

The Distribution of ca/pa isn't too bad (200 of out 40k is about 0.5%, which seems realistic and reasonable to me), but the it's the distribution of the ca points themself thats pretty dire, virtually all Chairmen in real life are successful businessmen (with notable exceptions like Elton John cropping up now & then), yet in FMWorld Chairmen would go broke running a tuck shop at a Primary School as thier business skills are that bad.