Tactic Changes in 09

I've been looking through the different threads re: the changes to FM09 and am suprised to have not seen any threads discussing the changes in tactics for the new release (apologies if I've missed them!)

People are saying that the new formation/tactic set-up is the same as in FML - can someone run through the changes that have been made and how they effect their teams performances? I gather that Farrows, Sarrows and Barrows have gone - how has this changed things? Are there any extra options or settings to compensate for it e.g. to make a narrow 3-man-midfield spread across the whole midfield, without a LM/RM, you would have previously used Sarrows - how is this represented with the new changes?

Cheers for any info you can provide!

Nothing has been officialy announced yet. But in the video it said they will be announced MUCH clocser to release, so fair enough. I'm looking forward to some news, and am always banging on about this. Hence my amazingly popular tactics thread.

They are changing the arrows to what they are in FML afaik, im not a tactical genius so ill let some one else explain it to you

I hope they sort the tactics... that was the major weak point of 08 IMO

The arrows are going???? I need them for my system.

The arrows are gone - the match engine plays much more like realistic football too, once the idiot manager isn't pulling his players randomly all over the park

(From my experience in FML)

Wait for the blogs where the changes will be explained in more detail I would imagine. I think Miles is\was hoping to start the blogs at some point this week.

I want to ask a question about set pieces. Will there be any "stay in offside" set piece instruction in FM 09? I hope there will be because this set piece instruction is used frequently nowadays.

Sorry, I couldn't find anywhere else to write it.

Warning! Off topic:

I... WANT... GAME... NOW!!!

The arrows are gone - the match engine plays much more like realistic football too, once the idiot manager isn't pulling his players randomly all over the park

(From my experience in FML)

Bladesman - is there anything included to replace the arrows? When you say it plays a lot more like real football, what noticable difference is there? I mean, what has changed from 08 that is noticably more realistic?

I hope they sort the tactics... that was the major weak point of 08 IMO

You see, people say this but when the chance comes to voice your ideas and opinions to the SI folk, No one bothers about tactics. Just like this thread will last a couple more posts and then drift away into the abyss that is the SI forums. People are more concerned about going on holiday options etc.

I havent heard anything about tactical changes . I am waiting to be suprised

IIRC when i was in my under 15s team IRL my coach used arrows to show us where we should go when we have the ball and where we should go to defend. As a winger i have a Farrow and Barrow. Loved him for that because it made my life easier not having to think.

I hope they sort the tactics... that was the major weak point of 08 IMO

Its been a weak point not just in 08 but in all of the FMs so far.

Something I'm hoping they've changed in FM09 and tbh that they really should have been done earlier is the way you select who you want to be your Target Man and Playmaker.

IMO I think them options are best placed in the player instructions (along where free role is etc) or keep it the way they are but having a tickey box option (i.e say you play 4-3-3 and one striker plays infront of the other 2 and you want him to be the playmaker\target man, all you have to do is to tick the amc box, then also who ever fills that role either during the game or in the next match, is the designated playmaker\target man), as I feel the way it has been done and still is, is just a hassle to keep swaping and changing players around and puts some people off using either one or both options in thier tatics.

Welsome to the Aybss thread!!!!!! Just like all the others

Paul C confirmed that FM09 will use the same system as FML which i hated. As far as i remember, it had arrows, but all the tactics were static, like the default ones you get with the game. You could only move the arrows forward or back. Was really annoying. One of the reasons i ditched FML.

Oh, yeah. You couldn't create your own tactics either.

If you cant use your own tactics i could see me staying with 08 for an extra year

I can't see that being the case.

You can not create your own tactic? That is stupid to say the least. What is the point of releasing this game then.

You can create your own tactic in FML. I believe the arrows are now a forward arrow and a backwards arrow. I'm kind of miffed at them changing the arrows instead of just getting them to work properly but I will wait for 09 to judge properly.

Oh, yeah. You couldn't create your own tactics either.

Never played FML beta but I'm pretty certain I read somewhere that you have to 'learn' available tactical options. I think it's what they call a 'skill' and you have to make a decision in terms of what you want to learn re skills such as coaching attacking, youth development etc.

EDIT: this link should clear it up

http://www.footballmanagerlive.com/news/?newsid=2038

So let me get this straight - You begin with the traditional formations and their typical traits (e.g. 4-5-1 = defensive, pragmatic, with a target man) and it's up to you to, in a way, evolve as a manager and adjust your team accordingly?

If so, I think its an amaizing change, proberably the most exciting thing I've heard about so far (I might be getting a bit carried away but it sounds cracking!). Surely this means that each individual manager in the game can become more realistic - Scolari will be programmed to truely favour an attacking 4-5-1, as his "tactical attributes" are shaped so, etc.

Is this what is right? Or have I just totaly got the wrong end of the stick!

So let me get this straight - You begin with the traditional formations and their typical traits (e.g. 4-5-1 = defensive, pragmatic, with a target man) and it's up to you to, in a way, evolve as a manager and adjust your team accordingly?

If so, I think its an amaizing change, proberably the most exciting thing I've heard about so far (I might be getting a bit carried away but it sounds cracking!). Surely this means that each individual manager in the game can become more realistic - Scolari will be programmed to truely favour an attacking 4-5-1, as his "tactical attributes" are shaped so, etc.

Is this what is right? Or have I just totaly got the wrong end of the stick!

To be honest, I don't completely understand, after reading, the link above.

Although I completly agree. If the tactics have been changed so much that now your competance as a coach, etc, effects the avaliable options and how well your team performs the tactics, I think thats an amazing addition to the game. Actually after reading the fM live stuff I struggle to understand how they have even manage to achieve something that sounds quite complex.

Or maybe I too have got the wrong end of the thingy?

The way FML is done is to give the MMO some depth, I think. Think of it as increasing your levels in an online RPG. I personally didn't like that I had to spend hours learning skills to beable to do what I wanted with tactics.

The way FML is done is to give the MMO some depth, I think. Think of it as increasing your levels in an online RPG. I personally didn't like that I had to spend hours learning skills to beable to do what I wanted with tactics.

I completly agree.

I really hope that the learning thing stay only in FML (which i won't buy) and FM09 stay more traditional

Don't worry, you will still be able to create your custom tactics in FM 2009. Don't get it confused with FML. While the games will at times inherit features from each other they may not always work in exactly the same way. You won't have to learn anything before you are allowed to change tactics in FM 2009.

Good.

But, Ter, will be new tactical options in FM09 apart the new use of arrows (which use is the same of forward bar?) ?

Oh, yeah. You couldn't create your own tactics either.

I seriously doubt SI will leave out the most complex part of their game altogether.

Imagine only having the option to select pre-built formations? Boring.

I think the arrows are gone to stop people creating bizarre "un-football-like" formations with arrows all over the place (like "Kimz" tactics, for example), and the player runs will instead be determined by each individual instruction.

Of course, that may not be entirely accurate, so don't quote me on it....

From what I've read in the tactics forum the arrows in FM Live are used to represent forward runs; Farrow = FR Often, No arrow = FR Mixed, Barrow = FR Rarely.

In terms of Sarrows I think the plan is to make the Width slider more important; play wide and your players will look to move out wide more often, play narrow and the opposite will happen.

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys if the arrows are gone if it means the match engine is a lot more realistic - which from what FML beta testers have reported, it most certainly is

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys if the arrows are gone if it means the match engine is a lot more realistic - which from what FML beta testers have reported, it most certainly is

Ok, but so we gave excuse to remove other options (example: 'we remove the 'playmaker' to render the ME more realistic' and so on).

Apart the important (and hard to fit in) like movement with/without ball in the pitch, there are so many little, but useful, options that are absent in FM:

- the possibility to give instructions how pass the ball to more the one striker ( so if you have Drogba and Aguero, you will be able to decide 'on head' to Drogba and 'on the feet' for the other)

- the possibility to give instruction to target of any of your player ( so you can decide that your DR must pass to your AR and DL to AL, and so on)

- the possibility to give instructions to your striker to play first touch often

- the possibility to choose the height of cross

and now without arrows I can't tell my Winger to cut inside or my striker to return back...

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys if the arrows are gone if it means the match engine is a lot more realistic - which from what FML beta testers have reported, it most certainly is

But in what way is the ME more realistic? Sorry for going on, but I don't really understand what people mean when they say it plays more like real football? I never really felt there was much of a problem in terms of players positioning, passing etc. with FM08 (maybe I'm in the minority on that one!) so what has changed? The actual physics of play? Movement with the ball?

I can't wait to see how things have changed on the tactics front, and to see what has crossed over from FML and what has stayed the same. I think implementing some sort of method for "managers" to develope in a certain way would be a great idea, and really add to the realism of the game. It might make things harder for someone new coming to the game though, which makes me think it might not work in the way I previously thought. No doubt whatever SI put in will be class!

please please please sort the 1-11 in friendlies/internationals!

But in what way is the ME more realistic?

In the way that tactics like Kimz cannot exploit the AI by using the arrows unrealistically. IMO though, it's upto the player if they do that or not. I'm slightly annoyed they didn't just focus on making the arrows work but like I said, I will wait until FM09 to judge how it works.

Neji - I see what you're saying about preventing things like the Kimz tactic, but that still doesn't explain how the ME is more realistic in FML, and hopefully FM09. I haven't used any downloaded tactics, preferring to work on my own, as I assume many others do. As people are saying the ME runs a lot more like proper, living football, I'm assuming their not talking about the fact that you can't cheat using crack tactics, but rather the actual movement and action being played out. I didn't think there was that much wrong with FM08 in this respect, and can't see in what way things have been improved as people are saying.

there are many sliders influencing player's movement: arrows, FRuns, closing down and menatality. arrows were static positional tool. hopefully with better ME we'll have more realistic player movement. this is especially important for wingers (and strikers). they should act more to their style - PPM's, attributes and side they play, from now on. so a left-footed right winger should cut more inside to his natural foot and be dangerus for goal, like messi ire.... the problem with 08 ME was that wingers were more or less useless, if you played default formations. they didn't come into position to score enough, crossing was still awfull (i really hope crossing is fixed as this is smth that's really anoying and lasts for too long now)... smth was needed to be done.

I for one, found good tactics hard to create, there were too many things effecting things, like you should be able to tell a player to hog the touchline without having to mess with numerous settings to get it working. I hope they give you more options as a manager and give a clear indication of what the sliders do and clearly show what 1-20 means!

Neji - I see what you're saying about preventing things like the Kimz tactic, but that still doesn't explain how the ME is more realistic in FML, and hopefully FM09. I haven't used any downloaded tactics, preferring to work on my own, as I assume many others do. As people are saying the ME runs a lot more like proper, living football, I'm assuming their not talking about the fact that you can't cheat using crack tactics, but rather the actual movement and action being played out. I didn't think there was that much wrong with FM08 in this respect, and can't see in what way things have been improved as people are saying.

Ahh, sorry./ I thought you were asking how removing arrows made it more realistic

I for one, found good tactics hard to create, there were too many things effecting things, like you should be able to tell a player to hog the touchline without having to mess with numerous settings to get it working. I hope they give you more options as a manager and give a clear indication of what the sliders do and clearly show what 1-20 means!

Sliders are necessary to translate the info to the match engine. If you have issues with there being 20 then change your perspective and think of changes rather than values, and the changes as more than 1 notch up or down which will have a negligible impact.

For example I look at my midfielders passing/positioning. He's sitting too deep and he keeps knocking the pass sideways or backwards even when he has forward positioned team mates as viable options. So I bump his mentality by 4 notches and he moves a bit further up the pitch and becomes more likely to go for the forward, riskier pass.

Other slider settings come into that particular example but you get the drift.

The same applies to other sliders

1. Player too rigid in following instructions => Increase CF by 4 notches

2. Player not closing down in the manner I want => Increase closing down by 4 notches

3. Team sitting too deep => Increase defensive line by 4 notches

4. Wingers too close to full backs and getting marked out of game => increase width by 4 notches

5. Players not going for longer balls to open team mates => increasing passing by 4 notches (other sliders come into this)

6. Players dwelling on the ball too much and losing possession => increase tempo by 4 notches (other sliders have a role here too)

Just think of the sliders like that rather than 'I changed my width from 14 to 13 and now I can't buy a win' and it becomes less of a 'random flicking of switches until the light comes on' feeling.

Ahh, sorry./ I thought you were asking how removing arrows made it more realistic

Nevermind Neji - cheers for having a bash at it anyway!

Can someone who has been testing FML list some more of the changes to the tactics, to give us an idea of what might change in the 09 release?

all already covered in the main the traditional barrows and farrows have been removed.

however replaced with another graphical arrow which represents your forward run slider settings either always(arrow up) or never(arrow back)

the replacements you feel you need to take the place of farrows, barrows are already in the game with settings like free role, mentality, and team width settings. which in turn give a more realistic nature to the ME.

Wel.... i'm lost will there be arrows or not.... plain and simple what will be the difference and i know about 3d, other than this i mean, please anyone help

arrows are removed. that's all we know for now.

Having played FML, I can say tactics have changed for fm 09. Firstly it is a lot harder to break down teams and a lot easier to shut up shop. It is also quite easy to see where your team is going on due to such a brilliant match engine. Players run with the ball much much more, and when you tell a player to do something often, they do it often.

There are also a lot more stats present which help you see whats going wrong. There is now a crossing stat and crosses completed. Shots blocked, long distance shots and clear cut chances are other new stats.

I have yet to see a 20 shot, 1 shot, 0-1 loss yet at all

No arrows.

Millwallrules was spot on, except when i stopped playing the beta, people were winning easily by putting all their players down the middle and playing with 3 AM's and 3 strikers.

I presume that's been fixed.

Yeh, I havn't seen that.