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Harryseaess
19-09-2008, 14:50
I'm worried that there may be only, lets say 50 ways a player can score a goal and after you have been playing the game for a few seasons you will have most proberly seen all of the possible goals. So I am worried that I will be able to tell if a player is going to score or not just from the layout of my team and the passes that they play?

Is this true or will there be unlimited ways to score a goal?

I have had a look at other threads and cannot see this mentioned.

Thanks.

glamdring
19-09-2008, 14:54
There'll be as many ways as there are in 2d, although whether they will look sufficiently different in 3d I have no idea.

Harryseaess
19-09-2008, 14:56
There'll be as many ways as there are in 2d, although whether they will look sufficiently different in 3d I have no idea.

Thanks for that. Maybe a member of SI could confirm?

nehpets81
19-09-2008, 14:59
I think I heard it hinted by someone official that overhead kicks etc will be included. I wonder if "hand of God" goals will be in there?

Nomis07
19-09-2008, 15:00
I would have thought there has to be as many in 2D as 3D and vice versa. I'm sure we'll be able to switch between highlights so if I run the match in 2d and then want to watch a specific highlight in 3d, the 3d would have to replicate the 2d. Hope that makes as much sense as it did in my head.

Quackje
19-09-2008, 15:03
Trying to clarify what Nomis said, the match engine will work out how the goal was scored and everything about it. The 3D skin then represents this as it happens so it must have the ability to show all kinds of goals.

someguy
19-09-2008, 15:13
I think we should not forget that SI have said many times that the engine is the same as the 2D engine just shown in 3D. If thats the case then you can expect a wide range of goals etc. I too am curious to see just how varied the 3D will be though.

someguy
19-09-2008, 15:17
I think what we need is one more piece of continuous 3D footage, one that you can watch in half decent quality. I think that would shut people up, including me, until the demo.

Harryseaess
19-09-2008, 16:03
Thanks for all the input guys. I think Nomis and Quackje hit the nail on the head really. I really do hope this 3D works out well because I am really looking forward to it!

Big thumbs up SI!

iamweesel
19-09-2008, 16:09
i want to know bout this too

if it's not anything like this,then i'd love the 3d engine,as this is my main worry

VonBlade
19-09-2008, 16:46
How varied is real life?

Let's see. Cross from left to header. Cross from right to header. (etc etc).

Struggling to come up with 40, much less 50.

glamdring
19-09-2008, 16:52
There is an infinite variety of combinations of cross delivery and finish though (even just headers) that all look different in real life. As soon as you start to coombine 2 or more parts of a move the number of permutations sky-rockets. Just as an example it could be a deep cross, cross from close to the byline, cross from near the corner flag, cross to far post, to near post, header back across the 'keeper, header from 2 yards out, from 10 yards out, etc, etc

Äktsjon Männ
19-09-2008, 17:03
How varied is real life?

Let's see. Cross from left to header. Cross from right to header. (etc etc).

Struggling to come up with 40, much less 50.

Real football doesn't have limited amount of animations though, every cross differs from another in some way, as does every header. There has not been a convincing 3D representation of football yet and I doubt very much SI are able to come out with one. They are a relatively small dev studio working on a game that is so much more than a 3D engine. Other developers that have been working specifically on making 3D football games for years have failed to make a decent engine that wasn't horribly repetitive animations-wise. I just can't see this one being any different in that sense.

glamdring
19-09-2008, 17:09
The underlying match engine is a key part of it though. Maybe the underlying match engines of many other 3d football games are naff and repetitive because they spent too much time on the 3d part. As far as I'm aware SI used SEGA's large expertise in 3d graphics for games for the 3d visualisation of their engine so we will just have to see how well it represents what is a very good match engine in terms of its variability of goals.

someguy
19-09-2008, 17:36
This is why I will probably use the aerial view most of the time. Its zoomed out far enough to not have to worry about detailed animations and its probably the best view to see how tactics are panning out, similar to the 2d. Although still giving you so much more feedback compared to the 2d. Personally, if a zoomed out aerial view was all that was available, that would be enough for me. Saying that this is all presumsuous as nobody has played the game yet so.....

wacman1389
19-09-2008, 18:11
I agree with glamdring......FIFA was all about graphics, but the game itself was nothing like soccer.....I think the match engine will be very good in comparison with 08's in terms of reality and in terms of spontaneity.....considering 08's was pretty good (barring the corner cheat), we're in for a real treat :)

williamshankley
19-09-2008, 19:24
I was just saying this to my mate not long ago. Hopefully there will be many different goals. The one thing that does excite me is that it's made my the makers of Virtual Soccer. They were realistic back in the late 90's. God knows how good they have become now

Äktsjon Männ
19-09-2008, 19:34
The one thing that does excite me is that it's made my the makers of Virtual Soccer.

It's not. This 3D engine is developed by SI. They only use the animations of the older Virtua Striker games.

williamshankley
19-09-2008, 19:40
It's not. This 3D engine is developed by SI. They only use the animations of the older Virtua Striker games.

That's what I meant, after a few beers etc

LeoVieira
19-09-2008, 19:42
Does anybody else thinks that stupid 3d goalkeepers might ruin the ME?

In 3d they'll have arms, hands and pre-determined moves which are prone to stupid mistakes.

This is what i'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y95Oc1LFs5U (look 57s)

If mistakes like that happens in 3d, it will also happen in 2d since it's the same match engine.

Neji
19-09-2008, 19:45
There will be the same amount of goals that were in 2D. Almost limitless. We don't see the same phase of play in 2D over and over again so we won't in 3D, as it is the same engine.

Even shots that may use the same animation are going to be different.

Quackje
19-09-2008, 19:50
Does anybody else thinks that stupid 3d goalkeepers might ruin the ME?

In 3d they'll have arms, hands and pre-determined moves which are prone to stupid mistakes.

This is what i'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y95Oc1LFs5U (look 57s)

If mistakes like that happens in 3d, it will also happen in 2d since it's the same match engine.

The thing is the match engine for FM will be basically the updated FML match engine and not the virtual striker match engine. The 3D is just stealing the animations sega has already developed and putting them over what FM has already decided has happened. So you won't have any silly errors like that unless your goalkeeper is particularly rubbish and totally screws up.

I'm not sure exactly how good the detailed body movement will be but I'm still really looking forward to 3D. Even if you don't like it you can still play in 2D and have it exactly the same as it is now so its a bonus coolness and extra view on things.

Red Right Hand
19-09-2008, 20:07
Does anybody else thinks that stupid 3d goalkeepers might ruin the ME?

In 3d they'll have arms, hands and pre-determined moves which are prone to stupid mistakes.

This is what i'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y95Oc1LFs5U (look 57s)

If mistakes like that happens in 3d, it will also happen in 2d since it's the same match engine.

Yeah, that's just stupid - goalkeepers are much more sensible in real life:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgskirucZds

:)

|mmo
19-09-2008, 21:41
Regardig the variety of goals and whether we will only see 50 different, the obvious answer is that this should not be the case. The players will move exactely like in 2d and so it will have the same variety of goals.
There is, however, no doubt that we will sometimes see repetitive animation. It is impossible to avoid. This is the biggest challenge for the 3d engine and the one I am most worried about: somehow "hiding" that there only is a limited number of animations.

Ljuba82
19-09-2008, 23:17
...if movement on 2D is exactly the same like on 3D...it will be fantastic + we will see much better how "clear" chances are...

...for example...on one of the screenshots...where you can see 3D pitch + 2D radar....on 2D radar it seems like player is in very good position to score a goal...but on 3D you clearly see that it isn't such a good chance. Maybe it's a explanation why we thought there are too many good chances for goal in previous version.

Also...I always wonder where did the ball went. High just below bar...or very low...on ground. Also it will be much easier to see how dangerous are long shots...on 2D you just see, for example, ball quickly flying over the bar....on 3D you can see how far it is from goal...

...anyway I'm sceptic about 3D...but if SI can do it right...then it will be fantastic...

P.S. One more thing...it would be really nice if we can see height difference. To se Zigic and Cohler, who are 2m+...and some 160 ckm player near them. My only concern is how SI will solve jumping? Maybe from this version when ME decide who will win the header...it will include height, not just jumping.