Isn't it all a bit too easy?

I can imagine that so many of you are just livid with the notion that the game is easy, but i'm just winning all the time!

As an Arsenal fan I do tend to manage them alot, and I know everyone will just hiss at me about the fact that I should be someone else... but I want to be Arsenal and I want to be challenged! (Effectively wanting my cake and eating it)

I decided to do the whole rags to riches LLM thing, and was promoted every season for four seasons getting Histon to the Prem no problem.

Is it not a tad unrealistic?

Should it not be more difficult for the top flight teams?

I'm in my fourth season with Arsenal, and in a totally unrealistic feat, have bought in Ibrahimovic, Messi and Silva...

I've gone on Holiday for my fourth season and have won everything without trying.

What do you guys think?

I think the game is as realistic as you want it to be. Not a lot of point saying it's unrealistic/easy and then buying Ibrahimovic, Messi and Silva, which will make it even easier.

I think the game is as realistic as you want it to be. Not a lot of point saying it's unrealistic/easy and then buying Ibrahimovic, Messi and Silva, which will make it even easier.

Well, it proves a point in itself.

How on earth can I accumulate so much money in such a short space of time? Also, how can they possibly join, as in real life i doubt they would in season 2. Usually I buy young and train up, and still win most games. This time I thought i'd see what I could get away with. I've made tonnes of other signings as well but I shan't bother to mention them. Safe to say thats one unrealistic aspect of the game no?

There are a number of unrealistic aspects of the game, but you haven't addressed those and don't need to because they have been discussed at length. Your thread is about the game being too easy to win/sign players and the simple answer is that which I have already given; "it's as easy as you make it".

I implement a number of rules in my game to make it a bit more realistic/harder e.g. I have a wage cap/structure, a limit on transfer fees, a certain amount of youth players that must make a certain amount of appearances each season. Given these rules I don't find the game too easy at all, indeed it took me 14 seasons to win the CL with Bayern Munich despite dominating domestically.

These sort of rules cannot be implemented because it would ruin the game for some gamers, so the game must remain as it is. If you think it's too easy try and make it a little harder yourself.

Essentially the money you talk about is make believe, there is no need to spend it and no pressure on you to spend it. You can buy/spend what you think is realistic, simply ignore the budget and create one you believe to be more realistic.

There are a number of unrealistic aspects of the game, but you haven't addressed those and don't need to because they have been discussed at length. Your thread is about the game being too easy to win/sign players and the simple answer is that which I have already given; "it's as easy as you make it".

I implement a number of rules in my game to make it a bit more realistic/harder e.g. I have a wage cap/structure, a limit on transfer fees, a certain amount of youth players that must make a certain amount of appearances each season. Given these rules I don't find the game too easy at all, indeed it took me 14 seasons to win the CL with Bayern Munich despite dominating domestically.

These sort of rules cannot be implemented because it would ruin the game for some gamers, so the game must remain as it is. If you think it's too easy try and make it a little harder yourself.

Essentially the money you talk about is make believe, there is no need to spend it and no pressure on you to spend it. You can buy/spend what you think is realistic, simply ignore the budget and create one you believe to be more realistic.

Aye thats a great idea to be fair.

My expectation is that Arsenal would have that as part of the game, given the wage structure, and neccesity to pay off the stadium... but I guess i'm just being lazy

http://www.community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=37967

Have a look at that thread, it's one I created a while ago and has a load of rules people play by, in it. Some are good, but some are just obsessive compulsive

The game may be a bit easy and for a good reason. IRL things don't go so well, but in a game we forget all that.

If things don't go right, next thing you hear is "the game is cheating", "my team is not winning and I have Ronaldinho, Kaka, Shevchenko!" (AC Milan anyone?), and so on.

So I feel the game may be easy but it is for a good reason.

I don't find it easy but easy than achieving IRL. IMO though, thats how it should be. I like to beable to take Sheffield Wednesday to European glory within a reasonsable time period, its probably not going to happen IRL but it would kill my enjoyment if it wasnt possible to progress a bit quicker than IRL.

Plenty of people don't find the game too easy, but for people who insist on doing everything the easiest way possible obviously it will be too easy because if it wasn't then everyone else would have no chance.

Regarding Histon I very much doubt you did do that the LLM way. There's a big difference between starting with a small team and playing LLM. Also it depends what tactics you use. Have you developed your own tactic or are you using someone elses? Is it a realistic football tactic or one that seeks to exploit every hole in the match engine?

Finances are certainly an issue, but they have been revamped for FM09 anyway. I would never manage Arsenal in a million years so I don't know how much money they generate, but my Fiorentina team certainly weren't generating excessive amounts of cash in the 3 and a bit years I have managed them.

So all in all, there will always be people who find any game like this (i.e. without any difficulty levels) too easy because if there weren't then there would be so many people who found it way too hard that SI would lose 90% of their customers. Also it is far better that the game is slightly on the "too easy" side (I don't remotely think it is, but that's a side issue) than the "too difficult" side because you can easily impose your own rules to make a game more difficult unless you have no self restraint, but to make a game easier your only options really are to start using other people's tactics or whatever and if I have to use someone else's tactics I might as wll not bother playing the game.

Do what I do when I play Liverpool.Make a weird tactic and try and make it work.Right now I'm using a 3-2-3-2 formation.

I decided to do the whole rags to riches LLM thing, and was promoted every season for four seasons getting Histon to the Prem no problem

Is that even possible? I would love to see screenshots of this, including all transfers in and out each season and the prices

Is that even possible? I would love to see screenshots of this, including all transfers in and out each season and the prices

Me too I would love to see some evidence.

I normally don't give a **** about how people play their own game, but when you brag about it in the sense you find it too easy then I want to see some screenshots.

I have read many of the LLaMa's stories on their trials in the game. Some of them are 20 years in and not out of the bottom division! I personally have never played to the exact LLM guidelines and it still took me 24 years to take Oxford through the leagues. (Oxford are not even concidered LLM by the way!)

I think the problem stems from the transfer system.

AI managers are useless at spotting areas of need in their squad, and even worse at filling those needs. Whereas we're quite good.

So over time you end up winning handsomely.

It's probably no shock to discover the first couple of seasons are the hardest (when all teams use the balanced squads that real managers have built) but as the game progresses and their squads have 10 GKs and 15 SCs but no LW, then it just gets easier and easier.

VB

My Whitley Bay squad (FM06 though) isn't very balanced so mebee I'm an AI manager in disguise. We only had ~5 players at the start of the game so I had to build a full squad, but only did so based on scout recommendations so if my scouts weren't recommending players I wasn't buying any.

Thus I started the season with a squad of just 14 players and even once I'd added some more I have still arrived at the halfway point of the season with only 1 goalkeeper and 2 strikers in my squad. Evil FM clearly knows this because every time the game stops with one of my players injured it is either one of my strikers or my goalkeeper! Currently I have no strikers at all...too easy? Well, this is FM06 so so far it has been, but it wouldn't be if it were FM08!

I think the problem stems from the transfer system.

AI managers are useless at spotting areas of need in their squad, and even worse at filling those needs. Whereas we're quite good.

So over time you end up winning handsomely.

It's probably no shock to discover the first couple of seasons are the hardest (when all teams use the balanced squads that real managers have built) but as the game progresses and their squads have 10 GKs and 15 SCs but no LW, then it just gets easier and easier.

VB

couldn't agree more with that comment. I would hope a fix has been added to 09 for this. I don't think it would be too hard to write into the code either

_______________

http://fmldesign.co.cc

FM Live logo's/badges etc.

I've been considering a post on this topic, but I would have headlined mine: "Isn't it all a bit too hard?"

FM2008 -- WSM, actually -- has been near-constant frustration. I began my FM managing in early 2006 with FM2006. As I learned, my results improved. The culmination was taking Coventry in five seasons from League 1 to the Premiershhip quadruple in the 2020s. I won the Prem and assorted cups with four other clubs. The only one that began life in the Prem was Liverpool midseason in the late 20-teens. It needed a massive makeover, but I won the league that season and the next. This is not meant to be bragging, just as background to show I'm not a total, failed newbie.

A few months back, it seemed time to unwrap WSM2008 and replicate my success. It isn't happening. I've taken MK Dons from League 2 to the Championship in seven seasons. (Almost identical to the rate of progress for my first club, Accrington, in FM2006.) At that point, however,the club began disintegrating. Four top players refused to renew contracts and left on frees. I had tried to sell them but got no takers. I have since tried a few other clubs and have experienced similar personnel problems. Maybe it's me, but I'm using the same managerial approach as FM2006, which is to go easy on the players.

A key part of my approach is to keep the board happy with salary/transfer money surplusses and to build a two-deep squad with young, talented players. Such players seemed abundant in 2006. The many hours spent in the search screens were rewarded. Not so in 2008. The talent pool seems slim, and far more players don't want to join the club. What worked in the 2006 version isn't working in 2008. Maybe 2006 wasn't realistic in this respect and 2008 is. I don't know. What I do know is that what for me was a source of satisfaction in 2006 has become a source of frustration in 2008.

I look forward to FM2009, but with trepidation. I'm excited by a 3d match, but if the team-building "problems" continue, so will the frustrations. One of the beauties of the FM series is there is always another team to manage, new problems to confront. Maybe the 2008-and-beyond versions aren't for me. But to paraphrase Rick in Casablanca, "I'll always have 2006."

I wonder how you would have done with Histon had you not used the "illegal" feeder club system, the "cheat" corner exploit, and only signed players that your scout had found?

I wonder how you would have done with Histon had you not used the "illegal" feeder club system, the "cheat" corner exploit, and only signed players that your scout had found?

Bit harsh, people can play their game how they like

Obviously, but it invalidates their claims that the game is too easy!

Maybe you're a tactical genius but I'm not and I struggle even against clearly weaker teams.

I've been considering a post on this topic, but I would have headlined mine: "Isn't it all a bit too hard?"

FM2008 -- WSM, actually -- has been near-constant frustration. I began my FM managing in early 2006 with FM2006. As I learned, my results improved. The culmination was taking Coventry in five seasons from League 1 to the Premiershhip quadruple in the 2020s. I won the Prem and assorted cups with four other clubs. The only one that began life in the Prem was Liverpool midseason in the late 20-teens. It needed a massive makeover, but I won the league that season and the next. This is not meant to be bragging, just as background to show I'm not a total, failed newbie.

A few months back, it seemed time to unwrap WSM2008 and replicate my success. It isn't happening. I've taken MK Dons from League 2 to the Championship in seven seasons. (Almost identical to the rate of progress for my first club, Accrington, in FM2006.) At that point, however,the club began disintegrating. Four top players refused to renew contracts and left on frees. I had tried to sell them but got no takers. I have since tried a few other clubs and have experienced similar personnel problems. Maybe it's me, but I'm using the same managerial approach as FM2006, which is to go easy on the players.

A key part of my approach is to keep the board happy with salary/transfer money surplusses and to build a two-deep squad with young, talented players. Such players seemed abundant in 2006. The many hours spent in the search screens were rewarded. Not so in 2008. The talent pool seems slim, and far more players don't want to join the club. What worked in the 2006 version isn't working in 2008. Maybe 2006 wasn't realistic in this respect and 2008 is. I don't know. What I do know is that what for me was a source of satisfaction in 2006 has become a source of frustration in 2008.

I look forward to FM2009, but with trepidation. I'm excited by a 3d match, but if the team-building "problems" continue, so will the frustrations. One of the beauties of the FM series is there is always another team to manage, new problems to confront. Maybe the 2008-and-beyond versions aren't for me. But to paraphrase Rick in Casablanca, "I'll always have 2006."

I can relate to this situation a lot more I gave up on my little Spanish LLM team, got them promoted once but then got stuck in 2nd div. Just couldn't get them promoted. Clearly just a tactical problem, the team was already 8th richest in Spain after 5 seasons of LLM.

Bit harsh, people can play their game how they like

Yes..of course, but then don't claim that's it's too easy.

Yes..of course, but then don't claim that's it's too easy.

Oh puhlease.

Game out the box is the version people should refer to. As Miles is always telling us, there is a world out there. Therefore the game out the box is too easy.

You HAVE to enforce an insane ruleset upon yourself to make it any kind of challenge. So if that makes the game challenging then why not enforce a rule where you have to play a 145 formation and can only use players under 16 who's name contains a z and say that anyone who doesn't play by those rules isn't allowed to complain it's too easy?

Exactamundo.

VB

Oh puhlease.

What's the need for this?

Game out the box is the version people should refer to. As Miles is always telling us, there is a world out there. Therefore the game out the box is too easy.

You HAVE to enforce an insane ruleset upon yourself to make it any kind of challenge. So if that makes the game challenging then why not enforce a rule where you have to play a 145 formation and can only use players under 16 who's name contains a z and say that anyone who doesn't play by those rules isn't allowed to complain it's too easy?

Exactamundo.

VB

I understand what you are saying, and as someone who does play LLM but not to the standards upheld by those on the forum contained on the site I can identify with the "rules" element of what you are saying.

I didn't say anything about sticking to any "rules" set by the individual. I was refering to "out of the box" playing. I simply said that, yes people may play as they wish but do not complain about it being to easy if you do not play it as intended. I question the validity of the OP claims is all if he did in fact play it out of the box only. No 3rd party scouts, FMM etc.

I will happily withdraw all claims against him if I am proved to be wrong. Just smells fishy is all...

Try managing UNAM Tigers, or a crap lower league team, It tends to get a hell of a bit harder

It is quite easy if you find the right tactic. Or even a half decent one. It's not designed to be hard. If you want to make it as hard as real management then you have to work wihtin some rules because there are certain things that SI can't implement in the game. Or won't.

To the O.P., I'd suggest that different database and active league combinations make the game easier or harder as well.

For example, if I have just the English leagues active, I find that the E.P.L. remains competitive much deeper into a save-game than the Champions League does.

However, I find the Champions League to be much more interesting / exciting if I have Spain, Italy, Germany, France, England and several of the smaller European nations active. With that configuration, I think the C.L. remains competitive even after I've achieved domestic dominance.

Further, you can always set yourself your own challenges - as others have said, its as easy or as hard as you make it. Getting bored with your dominant Arsenal? Resign, and take over a different E.P.L. club. Don't let yourself sign any players from Arsenal. For years to come, you should have great title fights against the rampant Gunners squad that you built.

I'd love for the AI to remain competitive for years to come - but from CM2 to FM'08, the transfer market feels like its been built on the idea of "replicating realistic transfer frequency and transfer fees". I hope that the FM'09 "transfer market overhaul" has replaced that paradigm with an "AI teams strive to improve their club, full stop" approach .. if that's the case, I expect that long-term games will be much more competitive.

To be honest, I don't find the game too easy at all. If anything, I find FM08 very hard. I seem to hit a glass ceiling of mediocrity whichever team I manage. I create my own tactics (I want to understand which tweaks are responsible for what), and I try to do my own scouting, though I know this is a weakness of mine (I usually use the player search filters and then scout the players that catch my eye rather than sending my scouts out on assignments). As a result, I haven't managed to get my beloved Forest higher than the Championship play-offs in four separate games, and when I've managed at Premiership level it's usually with Glenn Roeder-esque consequences.

Actually I have a question to the OP. What year are you in? I'm guessing with Histon it was the first four years which I have never managed to achieve four back to back promotions like that.

But, I'm currently in 2025 with Sheffield Wednesday and I have only failed to win one trophy once in the past 5 years. It's insanely easy and the last year I even holidayed the full season and still won every trophy. I firmly beleive this is down to the lack of quality regens in my game. I have all the money I need, so when I see the best regens out there, I just buy them which means that no other teams can. And because there are so little top quality regens, there are none for the Ai to buy which come close to my team.

I think it goes back to what Amaroq was saying, it helps to have more leagues selected but this is the reason why I want the regen system to be perfect this year. I know thats asking alot but it will make long term games, for me, much more enjoyable.

Neji, yeah, it sounds like you've cornered the market in quality players, which really has to be putting a damper on AI competitiveness.

I'd also suggest, in addition to active European leagues, running the top Brazilian and top Argentine leagues, as there seem to be an annual crop of high-quality youngsters there. Yes, it means you can go collect high-quality youngsters, but it may also help fight the "cornering the market" effect.

Congrats OP beefheart. I think I'd actually be disappointed if I had a game like that. I remember that in FM06, but FM08 seems a bit tougher to me, and I'm grateful.

I can usually get a team 'up' to the 2nd tier quickly, but getting a good enough squad to actually compete in the top flight takes me 3-5 seasons of moving personnel in and out, bringing up youth talents, and increasing my budget such that I can make 1 or 2 big purchases. I like it that way too, so maybe I'm just not confident enough.

Yeah, to be honest I haven't even touched the game in weeks because of it.

I setup the game with just a few leagues because I didn't think I would play for so long. I went through a spell of boredom with the game and realised that I hadn't managed my real life team yet so thought I'd give them a try to get me playing again. It worked but I only have 5 leagues running so it has become way too easy.

Roll on 09!