They took my money!

I have 1 billion in the bank with Valencia and my board announce that they are taking most of it and depositing it into a reserve investment fund.

I have never seen this before in FM08, if I now go into the red will the board take some of my funds back from this "fund"?

Ironically, my £34 million loan is not paid off....

Haha! never heard of this one before. Unlucky mate!.

Yes, they will give some back if you go broke.

It's to stop you going over £2.somthing billion, which the game can't handle. You go £2.somthing billion IN DEBT if that happens.

They deposit it as a SI hack to get around their inability to fix the 2 billion bug.

Yes if you go into the red they'll dip into it.

Its to do with storing numbers. If the game uses any more bits to handle bigger numbers then things can go a bit haywire (basically)

It happens in many games. Grand Prix Manager 2 had this also, but there was no workaround. This just keeps you from going above a certain figure at which the game with go from £2.3 billion (i think) to -£2.3 billion, which it percieves as "the next number" because of the way it is stored.

And obviously this then means you are in debt.

As for what happened to you, its a good thing.

It'd be better if it got used to clear the loans though.

They deposit it as a SI hack to get around their inability to fix the 2 billion bug.

Its not a bug. Do you know how much slower FM would run to increase the values that hold numbers like that?

It'd be better if it got used to clear the loans though.

I agree but I don't think you should be worried about loans if you have 1 billion in the bank.

Yes, it is a tad odd that the loan wasnt payed off. in my experience, they get paid off when the balance will still remain "Rich" after payment.

What about the annual dividends? Sometimes the club does well and the board members took dividends, will they give you back when you go into the red?

As has already been said, it's a workaround for technical reasons, since finances are stored as a 4-byte variable with positive and negative values, meaning that the most cash you can have is £2,147,483,647 and even just a single pound more would put you in debt (of that same figure).

As an aside, if it were possible to use 5 bytes to store finances, that figure would bounce up to £549,755,813,887, which is really silly money

What about the annual dividends? Sometimes the club does well and the board members took dividends, will they give you back when you go into the red?

No, dividends are payed out to shareholders of any company which is not privately owned, think of it in the same way as a bank paying out interest on your savings.

What about the annual dividends? Sometimes the club does well and the board members took dividends, will they give you back when you go into the red?

No. Dividends is a way of paying themselves large amounts of cash with minimal tax.

No, dividends are payed out to shareholders of any company which is not privately owned, think of it in the same way as a bank paying out interest on your savings.

Thats not entirely correct, but I've debated the same issue once last week, cba explaining how it all works again

In my expenditures its says that £1 billion was deposited via dividends, as long as I get it back!

As much as it does make sense to stop the overflow...

All loans should be cleared first. The first method to reduce the balance should be clearing loans. The second should be upgrading anything not yet perfect. It should then be deposited.

It'd be nice if the investment bond they bought was also then used to fund a future new stadium rather than the bank balance / a new loan.

A lot of commercial loans IRL can't be paid off early without incurring large penalties. Just something to consider.

A lot of commercial loans IRL can't be paid off early without incurring large penalties. Just something to consider.

Surley the bank manager would want his money back sooner. IIRC my mum had a loan a few years ago and fully paid it off 3 years early due to a promotion at work which allowed her to and she never had to pay any kind of penalty.

Surley the bank manager would want his money back sooner. IIRC my mum had a loan a few years ago and fully paid it off 3 years early due to a promotion at work which allowed her to and she never had to pay any kind of penalty.

Doesnt the bank make more money through the interest rate if the loan lasts longer? Or in other words wouldn't the bank loe money from the interest if the loan is repayed early?

Doesnt the bank make more money through the interest rate if the loan lasts longer? Or in other words wouldn't the bank loe money from the interest if the loan is repayed early?

She still had to pay the interest for those 3 years, which was agreed in the contract of the loan when she took it out that it was that amount of money she would pay back meaning the interest still had to be paid, but still i dont see a penalty

Also, it's not "your" money. It's the club's.

She still had to pay the interest for those 3 years, which was agreed in the contract of the loan when she took it out that it was that amount of money she would pay back meaning the interest still had to be paid, but still i dont see a penalty

Well, isn't that in itself a penalty? You would think that paying it off early would save you interest. If you still have to pay the interest, then you may aswell carry on making monthly payments.

I have 1 billion in the bank with Valencia....

What you really mean is that Valencia football club had 1 million in the bank. It's theirs not yours!

Technically no club in existence has or will ever reach £2billion.

So more importantly is that SI should address the issue on finance.

Technically no club in existence has or will ever reach £2billion.

So more importantly is that SI should address the issue on finance.

It's already extremely difficult to get anyway near that unless you play for 30-40 years having constant success.

is this in FM08?

It's already extremely difficult to get anyway near that unless you play for 30-40 years having constant success.

But you must take into account those clubs with seemingly limitless coffers(Chelsea, Man City)that the balance cannot be determined as their owners are too filthy rich.

But you must take into account those clubs with seemingly limitless coffers(Chelsea, Man City)that the balance cannot be determined as their owners are too filthy rich.

Neither City nor Chelsea are going to spend 2 billion on players.

But you must take into account those clubs with seemingly limitless coffers(Chelsea, Man City)that the balance cannot be determined as their owners are too filthy rich.

The richness of a club's owners is an irrelevance to the bank balance of the clubs themselves. No club will ever have a bank balance of 2 billion so I think the "bug" of a bank balance going above this value should stay in the game because it will mostly only ever be reached by people who edit their team's finances and it serves them right to be honest!

I hoping SI address this problem in FM2009. For the sake of Manchester City managers everywhere. Look SI all you have to do is change a 32 bit integer variable to a 64 bit integer variable, problem solved. (Well it may break a few things).

I hoping SI address this problem in FM2009. For the sake of Manchester City managers everywhere. Look SI all you have to do is change a 32 bit integer variable to a 64 bit integer variable, problem solved. (Well it may break a few things).

It will slow the game down no end. There isn't even a problem. The likelyhood of getting that much money is very little. The money is taken out anyway, and with 1 billion you don't need more.

Yup this was in FM08 and I know about the £2 billion bug, I'm not really concerned about that.

What I want to know is that if I start to lose money will they dip back into this "reserve investment" fund?

As a club manager why should we even know the club balance. all we need is a budget to do wages and transfers. IRL managers dont get a bank statement from clubs, all they get told is what you have to sepnd etc, other members of the Board handle that kind thing.

As a club manager why should we even know the club balance. all we need is a budget to do wages and transfers. IRL managers dont get a bank statement from clubs' date=' all they get told is what you have to sepnd etc, other members of the Board handle that kind thing.[/quote']

Of course we should know the club balance! I doubt that real managers dont know the club balance irl.

As a club manager why should we even know the club balance. all we need is a budget to do wages and transfers. IRL managers dont get a bank statement from clubs' date=' all they get told is what you have to sepnd etc, other members of the Board handle that kind thing.[/quote']

although the manager may not know the specific club balance the club balance would still have to be stored some where for the game to derive a reasonable transfer/wage budget from.

and also to work out if the club are going into administration or not.

so although i'm tentatively in favour of not seeing the exact balance it wouldn't fix the issue of going over 2billion.

does anyone know if managers do know the exact bank balance?

does anyone know if managers do know the exact bank balance?

I would imagine they know at least a roundabout figure but I guess it depends on the guys in charge. Some may know, some wont'.

I would imagine no manager knows his club's bank balance unless he's pilfered the bank statements from wherever they are kept.

She still had to pay the interest for those 3 years, which was agreed in the contract of the loan when she took it out that it was that amount of money she would pay back meaning the interest still had to be paid, but still i dont see a penalty

How long ago was that? because that is illegal now

I have 1 billion in the bank with Valencia and my board announce that they are taking most of it and depositing it into a reserve investment fund.

I have never seen this before in FM08, if I now go into the red will the board take some of my funds back from this "fund"?

Ironically, my £34 million loan is not paid off....

Since when has the club's money been your money anyway? The chairman/board are usually the owners of a club, so it is their money. Really, you're spending their money by signing players...

Serves them right mate, they have too much money anyway!

Its not a bug. Do you know how much slower FM would run to increase the values that hold numbers like that?

"5000 playable teams" (seems small, but that's the Wiki for ya)

8 bits

=

40000 more bits in the database, total.

db is ~ 100,000,000 bits large, so

.0004, or .04% larger database.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I'd notice, even if the search speed on the db was 1:1 dependent on the db size, which it shouldn't be.

..........

That said, the money should be put in the pockesesesessss of the owners, not left in the balance sheet. That is the unrealistic part. So I'm happy with the cutoff, if not the mechanism or reasoning.

"5000 playable teams" (seems small, but that's the Wiki for ya)

8 bits

=

40000 more bits in the database, total.

db is ~ 100,000,000 bits large, so

.0004, or .04% larger database.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I'd notice, even if the search speed on the db was 1:1 dependent on the db size, which it shouldn't be.

..........

That said, the money should be put in the pockesesesessss of the owners, not left in the balance sheet. That is the unrealistic part. So I'm happy with the cutoff, if not the mechanism or reasoning.

Nothing to do with the database. Each calculation would take at least twice as long, meaning the game would be half the speed, I guess. Unless it was running on a 64-bit system (and written to take advantage of it), of course.

This is on the basis of only vague knowledge, so if anyone would care to correct me?

Just to reiterate a point made earlier in some similar threads a few times.

No sensible board of a football club will keep huge amounts of excess cash in the club's bank account if the finances are secure. Most sensible option naturally is to invest the excess money. If there are loans outstanding, it is not necessarily the best option to pay them out (might not even be possible to do that depending on the loan clauses) if the same money can be invested more wisely.

In case you happen to run amok financially and rake in tons of cash, you might see the news item about the board investing some of the excess cash available. Again, this money does not disappear into a black hole and all such investments are tracked and stored within the game and the money ca be re-invested back into the club by the board if the finances later turn bad. And yes, at the end of the day it's the club's money, not yours

Thanks for your reply!

Nothing to do with the database. Each calculation would take at least twice as long, meaning the game would be half the speed, I guess. Unless it was running on a 64-bit system (and written to take advantage of it), of course.

This is on the basis of only vague knowledge, so if anyone would care to correct me?

I think I could safely say that both estimates are extreme. I doubt it would either be as little impact as the previous guy claimed and certainly not as big an impact as this. We are talking about bank balance here, not every single number ever used in the game so it would only take twice as long (assuming a calculation on a 64-bit number does take twice as long as on a 32-bit number) if everything done in the game was using the bank balance which it obviously isn't.

Still, despite that I agree it would be totally un-necessary extra time spent processing for no positive purpose.

I think I could safely say that both estimates are extreme. I doubt it would either be as little impact as the previous guy claimed and certainly not as big an impact as this. We are talking about bank balance here, not every single number ever used in the game so it would only take twice as long (assuming a calculation on a 64-bit number does take twice as long as on a 32-bit number) if everything done in the game was using the bank balance which it obviously isn't.

Still, despite that I agree it would be totally un-necessary extra time spent processing for no positive purpose.

AFAIK, there is little difference between 32/64 bit numbers other than the amount of memory it takes to store them.

As far as calculations go, the processor will just retrieve the value from its memory location, perform the calculation and put the new value back. I doubt it would cause a significant overhead in processing time.

Besides, the only time i've had £2b in thebank is when i'm cheating

AFAIK, there is little difference between 32/64 bit numbers other than the amount of memory it takes to store them.

As far as calculations go, the processor will just retrieve the value from its memory location, perform the calculation and put the new value back. I doubt it would cause a significant overhead in processing time.

Besides, the only time i've had £2b in thebank is when i'm cheating

depends how calculations are calculated. But I seriously doubt it would take much longer to calculate 64 bits than 32 bits. Hm... well I could make a test and see, it looks like that Computer architecture 2 course I'm taking could finally prove to be useful.

edit: well I've made a short test and ordered a processor to add 16 bit number in first test and add 32 bit numbers in second test. There doesn't seem to be much difference.

Tbh I've never edited the cash available in db and have never seen this issue. Not to say it doesn't happen, and it shouldn't have anything to do with owners' cash - IRL (and it should be reflected in FM and probably is), Man City and Chelsea have/will have separate accounts. Just because the owner is worth £525 billion doesn't mean the club has that to spend, or anything like it. Any monies invested are exactly that - when the owners sell up, they will most likely want that cash back. If you like, it's just another loan that may or may not go through the club's books. Wages and fees coming from club funds will have to, things the owner decides to privately fund will not, so will not show up on the data the manager can access.

Should use the excessive money to build a "Bird Net"