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Navie
10-09-2008, 22:00
On my 12th season, won 10 titles in a row and about to lose my 1st one in 10 years. I play Tottenham away and I lead 1-0 and Tottenham score in 85th minute of the game and I looked at the replay and was offside and I say 'I hope that they are happy that decision cost us", what is the point of that when its offside and now I get a touchline ban? Anyone want to see the match incident?...to prove me wrong? I will post it here, not happy :(

http://www.badongo.com/file/11295316

Socdk
10-09-2008, 22:05
Nah... Don't bother. Old news.

walsh
10-09-2008, 22:05
yeah it sucks, seems very rare that you are right

needs more flexibility

Navie
10-09-2008, 22:10
I just uploaded the file.

Ok everyone check this out, why did I get a touchline ban for appealing against this? I just do not understand at all, player receiving the ball is clearly offside when the player who is passing kicks the ball.

r0x0r
10-09-2008, 22:10
Usually... If it is offside the FA will be silent.

Sure sometimes the game will get it wrong.

Then again, sometimes the FA might still ban you even if you are right in reality.

Navie
10-09-2008, 22:10
Nah... Don't bother. Old news.

I've never noticed.

Navie
10-09-2008, 22:11
Usually... If it is offside the FA will be silent.

Sure sometimes the game will get it wrong.

Then again, sometimes the FA might still ban you even if you are right in reality.

So whats the whole point of appealing then?

r0x0r
10-09-2008, 22:13
I just uploaded the file.

Ok everyone check this out, why did I get a touchline ban for appealing against this? I just do not understand at all, player receiving the ball is clearly offside when the player who is passing kicks the ball.

http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/78566/Tottenham-v-Man-Utd-pkm.html

It's a 0kb file. Somethings gone wrong?

r0x0r
10-09-2008, 22:14
So whats the whole point of appealing then?

It affects how your players view you.

If you always complain about the ones that are wrong, you'll pretty much always have a silent FA (maybe with the odd warning / ban here and there) and a team that's behind you. Always refuse to talk about it and a few players may feel unsupported, or that you shy away from controversy...

Navie
10-09-2008, 22:18
It's a 0kb file. Somethings gone wrong?

Let me upload again and download before I post here.

Navie
10-09-2008, 22:24
http://www.badongo.com/file/11295316

That other site wasn't working properly, new upload site...works now.

r0x0r
10-09-2008, 22:39
Okay, it was offside...

However, you used the most upset response. Have you complained a lot in the past?

Perhaps they've decided that right or wrong, you need to shut your mouth and accept the decisions referees make? maybe a simple "i feel it was the incorrect decision" would have received silence?

Navie
10-09-2008, 23:05
Okay, it was offside...

However, you used the most upset response. Have you complained a lot in the past?

Perhaps they've decided that right or wrong, you need to shut your mouth and accept the decisions referees make? maybe a simple "i feel it was the incorrect decision" would have received silence?

Accept when a referee makes the wrong decision? So are you saying that even though a decision is wrong I still have to complain the right way?...if it was offside I should be able to say what I like...I said "I hope that decision cost us the game" and rightly so it did cost me the game because I didn't win, they got it wrong and it prevented me from winning.

Neji
10-09-2008, 23:07
You can't say what you want though just because you were right. Moyes was right about those two penalties against Liverpool and still got punished.

Navie
10-09-2008, 23:11
You can't say what you want though just because you were right. Moyes was right about those two penalties against Liverpool and still got punished.

I don't take interest in both them clubs so don't know anything about that, but fair enough...I still do think its wrong me getting punished when i'm telling the truth.

Neji
10-09-2008, 23:13
I don't take interest in both them clubs so don't know anything about that, but fair enough...I still do think its wrong me getting punished when i'm telling the truth.

Ok so Moyes complained about not being given two penalties in a game - he was right but still got punished.

The problem with the current media answers is that there is no tone, you have to pick that up for yourself. IMO 'I hope they realise they cost us the game' has an angry tone which FM sees as you being over critical of the ref/lino's etc.

Navie
10-09-2008, 23:17
Ok so Moyes complained about not being given two penalties in a game - he was right but still got punished.

The problem with the current media answers is that there is no tone, you have to pick that up for yourself. IMO 'I hope they realise they cost us the game' has an angry tone which FM sees as you being over critical of the ref/lino's etc.

So I should have used the less harsher comment for criticism? That is totally new to me and never come across it before...damn, so now I have to make sure I don't over criticise ref's

Navie
10-09-2008, 23:24
Btw...you guys must get angry off when something like that happens and you don't have a clue about it?

rinso
10-09-2008, 23:26
Btw...you guys must get angry off when something like that happens and you don't have a clue about it?


yeah but i personally ignore all these comments, as it tends to do more harm than good...

backpackant
10-09-2008, 23:54
And don't forget the 2D graphics are only a representation of what's happening underneath in the actual match engine. The noughts and ones that dictate what's happening on the pitch often don't translate well to the the graphics. It could be that the goal WASN'T off-side but the graphics were screwed up and made it look like it was.

This is one example of why many people were sceptical of a 3-D graphical representation of the ME - that the 2D didn't always tally with what's actually happening. Another example is when people on these forums complain that the ball "clearly wasn't over the line", despite the fact that no players complained and there was no controversy after. Hopefully the new ME dev team have ironed out stuff like this, otherwise those hailing 3D as the holy grail will be very disappointed.

Neji
10-09-2008, 23:56
So I should have used the less harsher comment for criticism? That is totally new to me and never come across it before...damn, so now I have to make sure I don't over criticise ref's

Well, isn't that how it is IRL?

Amaroq
11-09-2008, 00:02
Navie - basically, you want to give light criticism when you think you're sure that it was wrong, "grudgingly admit that the call may have been correct" when you think that the call was right, and say that the referee was spot on when you are sure that it was correct.

Also, its very important how you respond when the call goes against the opposition: don't support the ref "just because", and don't say that the other team are just bitter - you want to support the ref when you think it was the right call, and admit that the opposition may have a right to be aggrieved when you think it was the wrong call.

I give "No comment" 100% of the time for friendly, Reserve, and U-18 matches, as nothing good has ever come out of complaining about them. :D

Navie
11-09-2008, 00:04
Well, isn't that how it is IRL?

Well if you don't criticise them then they won't learn and keep on doing it to your team over and over and if you do criticise then the refs might be better in your matches next time...imagine that, but the game hasn't got the intelligence like that to be able to do that I don't think.

Amaroq
11-09-2008, 00:05
And don't forget the 2D graphics are only a representation of what's happening underneath in the actual match engine. The noughts and ones that dictate what's happening on the pitch often don't translate well to the the graphics. It could be that the goal WASN'T off-side but the graphics were screwed up and made it look like it was.
I don't believe that this is the case any more. By careful observation of my 2-D matches, I'm pretty convinced that the 2D graphics are a very good representation of what's happening in the actual match engine ... and by working on writing a commentary file, I'm pretty sure that the match commentary is quite unrelated to what is actually going on. That old theory about "the commentary is the bible" is complete hogwash. :D

I'm quite willing to believe, based on my observations, that SI have it coded so that each player's position, facing, vector of motion, and "current action" are represented in the ME - and honestly, there wouldn't be any way to do 3-D if it weren't.

Amaroq
11-09-2008, 00:07
Well if you don't criticise them then they won't learn and keep on doing it to your team over and over and if you do criticise then the refs might be better in your matches next time...imagine that, but the game hasn't got the intelligence like that to be able to do that I don't think.
Actually, somebody posted about a month ago that he felt like he'd successfully handled the "criticize" function in such a way that most controversial calls were now going for his team .. so I suspect that there is some attempt to do exactly what you're describing ....

... but I'd bet that its based on your accuracy when you complain, not whether or not you criticize.

Neji
11-09-2008, 00:09
Well if you don't criticise them then they won't learn and keep on doing it to your team over and over and if you do criticise then the refs might be better in your matches next time...imagine that, but the game hasn't got the intelligence like that to be able to do that I don't think.

As Amaroq says, someone did claim this happens but I couldn't tell you one way or the other.

I agree with what you are saying but you can still critisize them - just don't go to town on it.

Amaroq
11-09-2008, 00:14
... just don't go to town on it.
Or have a really good Assistant Manager whom you trust to take care of business without you! :D

Navie
11-09-2008, 00:29
Ok thanks for the input guys.

sanjin84
11-09-2008, 00:41
If your not sure weather to complain or not go back to the match and "click" on the ref. See what "grade" he got and make your decision. If he's got a "6", something went wrong and if he has 7 and up i wouldn't bother complaining.

Amaroq
11-09-2008, 05:51
Uh ... what?

You can do that?

:eek:

Learn something new every day!

Nomis07
11-09-2008, 09:19
If your not sure weather to complain or not go back to the match and "click" on the ref. See what "grade" he got and make your decision. If he's got a "6", something went wrong and if he has 7 and up i wouldn't bother complaining.

Never knew that :thup:

Navie
11-09-2008, 14:10
If your not sure weather to complain or not go back to the match and "click" on the ref. See what "grade" he got and make your decision. If he's got a "6", something went wrong and if he has 7 and up i wouldn't bother complaining.

Cool, thanks.

glamdring
11-09-2008, 14:27
The offside module of the game is so inaccurate that I just always ignore the controversy stuff nowadays. Complaining does precious little good even if you are right - you might still upset one of your players for stirring up controversy. Just like in real life the goal isn't going to be retrospectively disallowed so I can't be bothered complaining for no gain whatsoever.

The offside decisions that you get asked about are a tiny proportion of those in the game though - it's the ones where your player gets pulled back incorrectly for being offside before the ball goes anywhere near the net that annoy me most because they are far more common and so often incorrect. e.g my targetman who is blatantly being tightly man-marked goalside gets called offside regularly when the ball is played up to him :mad:

praxiteles
11-09-2008, 14:47
Actually, somebody posted about a month ago that he felt like he'd successfully handled the "criticize" function in such a way that most controversial calls were now going for his team .. so I suspect that there is some attempt to do exactly what you're describing ....

... but I'd bet that its based on your accuracy when you complain, not whether or not you criticize.

If you are quoting a post of mine a month ago in a similar thread, I stated I may be superstitious. I feel like after a successful criticism where the FA is silent, for a few games the refs are a bit more lenient in my advantage. But as I said, it may only be my superstition because there is really no way to correctly isolate and measure and evaluate such a random event.

On the other hand, if you are referring to some other user, I may really like to read his comment on this subject.

mbchuz
11-09-2008, 14:53
I've watched this in slo-mo and I'm not convinced he was offside. It was tight, but I think he was level and the advantange of the doubt goes to the attacking team. I think if people watch it slowly enough and try pause it as the dot 'kicks' it then you'll agree. Could've gone either way, but can have no complaints with the call in my opinion

joey6
11-09-2008, 15:14
a champion side would be 2-0 up :p just accept it and accept the ref got it wrong, over the 10 previous years theres no doubt dodgy decisions have gone your way.