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View Full Version : Wimbledon honours transferred to AFC?



FM_returner
09-09-2008, 04:09
I was wondering if the honours of the now-defunct Wimbledon FC will be put in the history of AFC Wimbledon in FM09. In real life, this has been done.

Are they there in 08?

dexta200
09-09-2008, 04:16
there not there on 08.

saints_lad
09-09-2008, 05:39
Would they not have gone to MK Dons anyway? (Though checking the game, they have not). I thought technically Wimbledon was just relocated and renamed?

As I understand it AFC Wimbledon was formed by disgruntled fans against moving the club to Milton Keynes, just like FC United of Manchester did when the Glazers took control of Man Utd.

EDIT: Having looked into it, it seems as though AFC Wimbledon have taken the moral ownership of the honours. However officially the ownership of the honours have in fact been given to the London Borough of Merton.

As I suggested that MK Dons would receive the honours, this is in fact incorrect as it has now been agreed that when referring to MK Dons events can only be attributed to them subsequent to August 7th 2004- when their first league game was played.

toon army 06
09-09-2008, 05:55
Would they not have gone to MK Dons anyway? (Though checking the game, they have not). I thought technically Wimbledon was just relocated and renamed?

As I understand it AFC Wimbledon was formed by disgruntled fans against moving the club to Milton Keynes, just like FC United of Manchester did when the Glazers took control of Man Utd.

EDIT: Having looked into it, it seems as though AFC Wimbledon have taken the moral ownership of the honours. However officially the ownership of the honours have in fact been given to the London Borough of Merton.

As I suggested that MK Dons would receive the honours, this is in fact incorrect as it has now been agreed that when referring to MK Dons events can only be attributed to them subsequent to August 7th 2004- when their first league game was played.

the honers should have be listed as mk dons as they were the team that wise and co played for before it changed it's name.it is like something like that happening to man utd and fc united getting listed as the club that won all the cups that united won.i don't fully understand the mkdons thing i allways fought it was the same club wise played for aka the crazy gang but instead with it's name changed someone please exsplain.

philkemp
09-09-2008, 08:29
As I recall, didn't Wimbledon move from Wimbledon to Milton Keynes? Then the fans thought that's not right, Wimbledon should play in Wimbledon, so the club renamed itself MK Dons. Fans who still didn't like it set up their own club - AFC Wimbledon - who I believe actually play near Wimbledon(?) So technically aren't Wimbledon and MK Dons the same team? Like when Arsenal changed (Dial Square, then Royal Arsenal, the Woolich Arsenal, and now Arsenal?)

Wikipedia (not the most reliable source, but this does make sense:)
"Milton Keynes Dons is legally a continuation of Wimbledon F.C., however after negotiation with the Wimbledon Independent Supporters' Association, mediated by the Football Supporters Federation, the club agreed to return the trophies and memorabilia of Wimbledon F.C. to the London Borough of Merton, and to make no claims on the history of Wimbledon F.C. thereafter. This step was taken in part to ensure the recognition of the Milton Keynes Dons Supporters Association by the Football Supporters Federation."

Nomis07
09-09-2008, 08:36
IIRC Wimbledon were bought by a mentalist Norwegian who was so desperate to get his own stadium even considered taking the club to Belfast, Dublin or Cardiff :confused: Obviously the fans got a bit peeved and started voicing their concerns, taking note of this Wimbledon then explored the possibility of moving the club to Milton Keynes, but this didn't appease the fans. Eventually the fans set up their own break away team called AFC Wimbledon, and after serious financial problems and moving to Milton Keynes, Wimbledon became known as the MK Dons. I can't remember iof the mentalist Norwegian was in charge at the time of the move or not though.

I only know, because my best mate at school was a Wimbledon fan, and despite living in Northern ireland he was dead against the move to belfast :D He was quite excited to begin with as the new owner spent big money on players like Hartson and Ostenstadt (sp?), but it all went belly up.

Philkemp, explains the trophy query above.

TMLS
09-09-2008, 09:40
The honours shouldn't be listed for either club - as said above, it's the London Borough of Merton who were given claim over these, not AFC itself. MK Dons and AFC are both new clubs, for FM's point of view.

SCIAG
09-09-2008, 18:27
This was explained on Reading's forum by someone who knows more about the situation than most. Like TMLS says, both clubs are effectively new clubs.

scrawney
09-09-2008, 19:02
IIRC there was a handover ceremony where all the honours from the old Wimbledon (now MK Dons) were given to AFC Wimbledon and lots of ex Crazy Gang players went along. It made sure AFC Wimbledon kept the traditional Wimbledon honours and that MK Dons truly were a new club, so I would hazard a guess that the honours go to AFC Wimbledon on FM.

Mike7077
09-09-2008, 19:13
I was under the impression that although the original Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes and changed their name, they also set up as a new club, therefore sacrificing Wimbledon's history. I was also under the impression that AFC Wimbledon then picked up Wimbledon's history.

I don't know, though.

scrawney
09-09-2008, 19:23
I was under the impression that although the original Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes and changed their name, they also set up as a new club, therefore sacrificing Wimbledon's history. I was also under the impression that AFC Wimbledon then picked up Wimbledon's history.

I don't know, though.

I believe that you are spot on.

Scotty Walds
09-09-2008, 20:02
I was under the impression that although the original Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes and changed their name, they also set up as a new club, therefore sacrificing Wimbledon's history. I was also under the impression that AFC Wimbledon then picked up Wimbledon's history.

I don't know, though.
Both your points are incorrect. MK Dons are a continuation of Wimbledon FC, under a new name in a new location.
AFC Wimbledon are a new club, who started with no history.
The honours of Wimbledon FC were donated by MK Dons to the borough of Merton, and I believe are on display in a library.

Mike7077
09-09-2008, 20:04
Both your points are incorrect. MK Dons are a continuation of Wimbledon FC, under a new name in a new location.
AFC Wimbledon are a new club, who started with no history.
The honours of Wimbledon FC were donated by MK Dons to the borough of Merton, and I believe are on display in a library.

Well, I did say I was only under the impression. Thanks for filling me in.

Gauvner
09-09-2008, 20:20
Wimbledon's success in the top-flight of English football was founded on unorthodox financial management and judicious dealings in the transfer market.[3] The club's average attendances were generally amongst the lowest in the Premiership, and comparable to a good Championship side, but sound management and an outstanding football academy meant that the club had remained competitive, and had enjoyed a long period of stability and relative success at the top level of English football. However, with inflation in costs, the club began to lose money heavily.[3] The club's original owners felt that they could restore the club to profitability if they could be allowed to move it away from London entirely to a more profitable location.[3] Such a proposal was against league rules,[4]and news of the scheme aroused much anger from a majority of supporters. Dublin, Belfast and Cardiff were considered as potential new locations, but none of these proposals got off the ground.

Such a move (in terms of distance) was unprecedented in English football (and although there were arguably a number of precedents in Scottish football, the Scots system does not have an open pyramid structure and others in English football prior to the current pyramid structure). The club's fans saw the move as akin to the American sports "franchise" system, a concept unknown in English football; the traditional view of a football club is that it is an important part of the community and local fabric, rather than simply a business. The proposed move was opposed in most quarters - not merely by a majority of the club's fans and fans of many other clubs who held sympathetic views, but by both the Football League (whose committee voted unanimously to reject the move) and the Football Association. Following the Football League vote, the owners of the club appealed against the decision to the The Football Association, who established a three-man commission to consider the request[5]. The commission ruled in favour of the move, and consequently on May 28, 2002 the FA reluctantly gave permission for the club to relocate to Milton Keynes. The then-Chief Executive of the FA, Adam Crozier, said that although the FA had to abide by the decision of the three-man commission, they did not believe the move was a good thing for the game. Crozier publicly stated that he personally felt it was an "appalling decision"[6]. The affair caused Wimbledon F.C to be nick-named pejoratively as "Franchise F.C."

Thats off Wiki for people who dont know the Saga.

Richie Brill
10-09-2008, 02:22
According to the show that follows AFC Wimbledon on Nuts TV the F.A.Cup currently sits at the AFC Wimbledon ground therefore AFC Wimbledon should be given the F.A.Cup in FM09

saints_lad
10-09-2008, 03:14
According to the show that follows AFC Wimbledon on Nuts TV the F.A.Cup currently sits at the AFC Wimbledon ground therefore AFC Wimbledon should be given the F.A.Cup in FM09

AFC Wimbledon shouldn't be given the cup at all. They are a newly formed club, therefore they did not win it. MK Dons have donated the trophies back to the 'community' from which the success originated- this was done as a gesture, not on the basis of AFC Wimbledon's footballing merit.

As somebody has just said, neither club should be attributed with the honours as OFFICIALLY they are both new clubs.

williamshankley
10-09-2008, 16:08
AFC Wimbledon shouldn't be given the cup at all. They are a newly formed club, therefore they did not win it. MK Dons have donated the trophies back to the 'community' from which the success originated- this was done as a gesture, not on the basis of AFC Wimbledon's footballing merit.

As somebody has just said, neither club should be attributed with the honours as OFFICIALLY they are both new clubs.

I agree with that

locky82
12-09-2008, 12:04
AFC were founded in 2002 and the MKDons were founded in 2004 so how could either of them win a cup in 88? Wimbledon FC won that cup but the crazy gang are just a part of history now!

alexeilh
12-09-2008, 13:48
MK Dons are a brand new club, created in 04.
AFC are ALSO a brand new club, yet they are the "continuation" of Wimbledon FC.

MK Dons now have no linkage to Wimbledon, new team, new generation. Wimbledon FC are no longer.

Nomis07
12-09-2008, 14:53
How can AFC be a continuation of Wimbledon FC, if AFC were created in 2002 and Wimbledon didn't disappear until 2004? AFC are a completely different team similar to FC United of Manchester, they have obvious links to Wimbledon FC but that's about it.

HD
12-09-2008, 14:58
Has anyone noticed that the more you use the word "Wimbledon" the stranger it looks?

JumbledSausage
12-09-2008, 15:41
Has anyone noticed that the more you use the word "Wimbledon" the stranger it looks?

Yep!!

If I were the one creating the FM database, then I would include Wimbledon FC as a defunct team holding the honours that it gained, and have MK Dons and AFC Wimbledon as new teams, with the honours that those teams have won in the last 4-6 years.

I was under the impression that MK Dons was an entirely new company that bought the old Wimbledon, and their place in the football league, hence MK Dons have only the two (I think) trophies - last seasons League Two title and the Football League Trophy. Whilst AFC Wimbledon hold the trophies they have won by gaining is it 3 or 4 promotions?

Anyway....

Bongo-Bongo
12-09-2008, 18:30
AFC Wimbledon shouldn't be given the cup at all. They are a newly formed club, therefore they did not win it. MK Dons have donated the trophies back to the 'community' from which the success originated- this was done as a gesture, not on the basis of AFC Wimbledon's footballing merit.

As somebody has just said, neither club should be attributed with the honours as OFFICIALLY they are both new clubs.

Pretty much spot on.

I believe that at the moment on the game, the honours in are given to neither club, and when you check the 'pst winners' section in the cup history, they appear under the name of Wimbledon FC, and thats how it should remain.

russ the womble
13-09-2008, 16:08
Close enough. MK Dons are not a continuation of the club called 'Wimbledon FC', which was part of the arguement against franchising in the first place. You cant expect to move cities (or from city to town) and keep all the old honours, associations, etc, that the old club had. Although they have the league place, they are effectively a new club with different badge, name, supporter base etc.

AFC Wimbledon are more of a continuation of the old club than MK Dons - play in SW London, same fans, and many former players seem them as the team they played for more so than MK Dons.

When it comes to honours AFC Wimbledon fans consider themselves to have the moral right to the honours list, which doesnt just include the FA cup but also the southern league titles and other cups which they won in their original non league days. The fans were the ones who supported the club up the leagues and are really the only part of the club that was not wrenched from SW London. However, technically they now belong to the London Borough of Merton and so in FM09 they should be given to a 'defunct' club I guess.

FWIW MK Dons 'gave up' any claim to these honours in order to be recognised as an 'proper' (pfff) club by the FSF and a couple of other 'benefits'. It certainly wasnt a charitable gesture.