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View Full Version : The things that frustrate me in FM08



walsh
08-09-2008, 21:37
So, after playing this game for a year now and still being as obsessed with it as I was on day 1, there are still things that really frustrate me. now this rant doesnt really have a purpose but I really just need to get them off my chest in HOPE they will be fixed for 09, hope you agree and add your own!

- The game always has this pre-determined feel to it. The way I think of it is that, say youve used a formation that doesnt "work" the game seems to want to punish you and smash you on the head with a mallett at the ridiculousness of this new setup. For example, say I'm playing Arsenal as Man Utd and I use a lot of thought and time to think where they usually overpower me and how to solve this. I finally come up with a theoretically sound formation, go into the match and after 12 minutes I'm 2 or 3-0 down. It's as if the game is making you 100% aware this formation is a failure and rather than you underperforming, you are annihalated off the pitch.

- This point sortve ties into the first one, the insane amount of early goals, I can comfortably be 4/5-0 up at half time and then not score again for the entire second half. It's like the game has it's idea of how the game should finish and then get's all of the incidents out of the way as quickly and efficiently as possible.

- Say I need to win the game, I'm losing 1-0 or drawing 1-1, I chuck a couple of strikers on and increase the mentality as well as making them play more direct. Then, say there is 20 minutes left I will have 0 chances (highlights) for the rest of the game (por maybe 1 chance long into injury time that never looks like going in. And it's not like the opposition counter-attacks my attacking formation and breaks up the other end, there are literally zero chances in the last minutes of a vital game which both sides want to win.

- Team Talks. There really needs to be more variety so that we dont end up with 11 players who "didnt seem to be listening" every game and seem like we are just a broken record. On the other hand, Wenger springs to mind, I'm 2-0 up at half time against Arsenal and I know with 100% certainty they will come back to 2-2 at the very least, and this doesnt happen gradually in the second half, they will be at 2-2 after say 53 minutes (8 after half time)

- The fact that touching your tactics (even making them more defensive) will almost always gurantee you conceding or throwing the game away completely so, unreallistically, I have to play an attacking 4-3-3 formation even if I'm 2-1 up with 5 minutes left rather than trying to protect my lead becasue trying to do so will ensure the opposite happens.

- As mentioned in the ian Harte back to Leeds thread, why do we have to hear about it every time a player who played for us comes back to play us (regardless of how little you actually used them or wanted them) but if a player returns to a club that he used to be at (not in the game world but it's clearly there on his "history) and was a hero, nothing is said.

- Records begin when the game begins, It would not be hard (even if just for the top teams) to include some records of top scorers/appearances/most goals in a game) so when I check my stats the most goal anyone has "ever" scored in a game is "Wayne Rooney - 3 -Aston Villa Dec 07" and the highest scoring game is "4-2 against Middlesbrough in 08"

anyway I know that's a long one but I certainly feel better now :P

Neji
08-09-2008, 23:06
- The game always has this pre-determined feel to it. The way I think of it is that, say youve used a formation that doesnt "work" the game seems to want to punish you and smash you on the head with a mallett at the ridiculousness of this new setup. For example, say I'm playing Arsenal as Man Utd and I use a lot of thought and time to think where they usually overpower me and how to solve this. I finally come up with a theoretically sound formation, go into the match and after 12 minutes I'm 2 or 3-0 down. It's as if the game is making you 100% aware this formation is a failure and rather than you underperforming, you are annihalated off the pitch.

Formation won't win games. Tactics is what swings big games in your favour.

- This point sortve ties into the first one, the insane amount of early goals, I can comfortably be 4/5-0 up at half time and then not score again for the entire second half. It's like the game has it's idea of how the game should finish and then get's all of the incidents out of the way as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I will agree on early goals. I do tend to see quite a few but it's not a game stopper. Maybe it happens a touch more than IRL but I wouldn't say it's over the top. And if you're 4 or 5 up at half time - would it not be natural that the players take it easy and the opposite team come out for some pride? The game does not fix games like this.

- Say I need to win the game, I'm losing 1-0 or drawing 1-1, I chuck a couple of strikers on and increase the mentality as well as making them play more direct. Then, say there is 20 minutes left I will have 0 chances (highlights) for the rest of the game (por maybe 1 chance long into injury time that never looks like going in. And it's not like the opposition counter-attacks my attacking formation and breaks up the other end, there are literally zero chances in the last minutes of a vital game which both sides want to win.

Read this (http://community.sigames.com/showpost.php?p=1509837&postcount=18)

- Team Talks. There really needs to be more variety so that we dont end up with 11 players who "didnt seem to be listening" every game and seem like we are just a broken record. On the other hand, Wenger springs to mind, I'm 2-0 up at half time against Arsenal and I know with 100% certainty they will come back to 2-2 at the very least, and this doesnt happen gradually in the second half, they will be at 2-2 after say 53 minutes (8 after half time)

You know 100%? No you don't.

Regarding 'Didn't seem to be listening'. Its bad wording more than anything. It doesn't mean that they aren't listening at all, it just means that your words didn't do anything specific.

- The fact that touching your tactics (even making them more defensive) will almost always gurantee you conceding or throwing the game away completely so, unreallistically, I have to play an attacking 4-3-3 formation even if I'm 2-1 up with 5 minutes left rather than trying to protect my lead becasue trying to do so will ensure the opposite happens.

Thats not true. If you're doing the wrong things, yes it will have that effect. I often make changes in tactics which win me matches (or rather, seems to).

- As mentioned in the ian Harte back to Leeds thread, why do we have to hear about it every time a player who played for us comes back to play us (regardless of how little you actually used them or wanted them) but if a player returns to a club that he used to be at (not in the game world but it's clearly there on his "history) and was a hero, nothing is said.

Its a problem which has been pointed out alot and SI know about it. I imagine this will be changed for 09.

- Records begin when the game begins, It would not be hard (even if just for the top teams) to include some records of top scorers/appearances/most goals in a game) so when I check my stats the most goal anyone has "ever" scored in a game is "Wayne Rooney - 3 -Aston Villa Dec 07" and the highest scoring game is "4-2 against Middlesbrough in 08"

Agreed.

hufton
08-09-2008, 23:14
I find the number of late goals quite astounding because I've tried so many different tactics to prevent them and there's just nothing I can do to stop injury time winners.

Also the number of injuries I seem to get is frustrating because whether I change my training or not I seem to get an inordinate amount of severe injuries. I often have 4/5 players from a 20 man squad sat on the sidelines for at least 3 months and that shouldn't happen to any team season after season.

Neji
08-09-2008, 23:16
Also the number of injuries I seem to get is frustrating because whether I change my training or not I seem to get an inordinate amount of severe injuries. I often have 4/5 players from a 20 man squad sat on the sidelines for at least 3 months and that shouldn't happen to any team season after season.

Try being a Sheffield Wednesday fan....

rinso
08-09-2008, 23:22
. I often have 4/5 players from a 20 man squad sat on the sidelines for at least 3 months and that shouldn't happen to any team season after season.

seems to consistently happen at Newcastle. west ham and probably spurs would be another two to add.


- This point sortve ties into the first one, the insane amount of early goals, I can comfortably be 4/5-0 up at half time and then not score again for the entire second half. It's like the game has it's idea of how the game should finish and then get's all of the incidents out of the way as quickly and efficiently as possible.

there isnt a team in the world that wouldnt ease off if theyre leading comfortably at half time. although i will agree i think theres a disproportionately high amount of early goals in the game.

regarding team talks - we know they dont work as well as they could, and that you dont always get repsonses that match what youre trying to say. on the other hand, how many times have they worked? and do you ever hear about that on the forums? like hell you do. only ever when stuff's broken.
to add to this, as liverpool, i was 2-0 at half-time away at newcastle. told every sinlge player i was angry, and restarted. exactly as in your example actually, by the 53rd minute it was 2-2, and finshed 5-2 to me.
bein 2-0 up at half time is terrible, and i have started just ignoring my players if this is the case, as it seems to do less damage than actually saying anything.

couple of things that do really annoy me, which im finding now as manager of Nottm Forest... despite being in the c/l for the 2nd season in a row, and having qualified for it for the 3rd season.. im constantly being linked with jobs at lower rep clubs, both in prem and champ. i mean, come on?! as if im going to leave a club challenging for the prom title, and getting european football for a club thats battling relegation.

also, clubs bidding for my players. ridiculous. first teamers, and i mean regular first teamers playin about 60% or more of games are attracting bids of their asking price, or less. where's the logic in that? its not as though we're struggling for cash or anythin. just plain stupid. along with the offers to take said players on loan!

and please please PLEASE can it be fixed in 09 that when you make someone unavailable for loan/reject all loan offers.. they STAY rejected until we change it?!?


rant over...

Neji
08-09-2008, 23:28
and i have started just ignoring my players if this is the case, as it seems to do less damage than actually saying anything.

Thats the biggest problem with team talks, people dont realise how effective this is.

IMO, its not 'ignoring the players' but rather, its not saying anything to extreme. For me, I see it as telling them the tactics/changes etc and not much else. Keep their mind on the game without having too much of a say.

I use it alot.

rinso
08-09-2008, 23:34
Thats the biggest problem with team talks, people dont realise how effective this is.

IMO, its not 'ignoring the players' but rather, its not saying anything to extreme. For me, I see it as telling them the tactics/changes etc and not much else. Keep their mind on the game without having too much of a say.

I use it alot.

good point that, never actually thought of it in that sense.... :thup:

Amaroq
08-09-2008, 23:55
Yeah, I thought team-talks were horribly broken until somebody pointed out that "None" is a useful option.

Viola, now I think they're a great feature.

Regarding the 2-0 lead .. its not as easy as saying "None". I had a recent 2-0 lead turn into a 5-0 victory because I said "Pleased". The key there? I was pleased because we were 2-0 up at home in a match I'd expected us to lose ... it was important to give my players credit for their first-half performance, and it kept their excitement level up for the 2nd half. With a severe underdog, you can actually get an "excited" response from your players by saying "Pleased" with a nil-nil scoreline!

To the O.P.: I don't think that the game has a "punish you inordinately" mechanic built into it. Three early goals as you're describing sounds, to me, like your pre-match team-talk did more harm than good, and that the early goal had a huge morale penalty with it, which led to the other two goals.

Note, also, that the game does have built into it "familiarity with a formation"; so, if you wound up asking your guys to play in an unfamiliar formation, your players were paying a price for unfamiliarity with it .. you can't really judge that formation accurately until you've played about ten matches in it.

As Neji was trying to point out to you, I think most of us won't build custom formations, but we certainly do do plenty of custom tactical adjustment .. e.g., if Man U. are your big rival for a title, you've got to come up with some approach to shut C.R. down or you're in for a looong afternoon.

I also don't have the problems you're describing with late-game situations... I may not always score the goal I need, but I do see highlights when chasing the game, I think Neji has linked to my discussion of that. In defense, the same - though I will caution that I think extreme settings (all-out-Attack, all-out-Defense) tend to have bad results. If you keep it within the middle ten settings of the slider (Normal +5 to Normal -5) you shouldn't see a lot of throwing the game away.

I think we'll be getting a lot of help with this in FM'09 with the new "Assistant Manager Feedback" feature, which I'm very excited about.

Amaroq
08-09-2008, 23:58
Regarding the 2-0 lead .. its not as easy as saying "None". I had a recent 2-0 lead turn into a 5-0 victory because I said "Pleased". The key there? I was pleased because we were 2-0 up at home in a match I'd expected us to lose ... it was important to give my players credit for their first-half performance, and it kept their excitement level up for the 2nd half.
To expand on that - I suspect some of the people who get the "Don't give the team enough credit" option don't get credit because they aren't praising good first-half performances.

5-0 at halftime? "Thrilled" for everybody.
3-0 at halftime? "Pleased" for everybody, unless somebody's on a 6, then let him stew.
2-0 at halftime? Pick the guys on 8's and give them "Pleased" - maybe even one 7 if you've noticed somebody performing well (like a 7.7, in your mind).

Same with full-time - I'll give the entire team "Not Good Enough", but tell a couple players I was "Pleased" with them after a defeat .. or I might have one player I'm "Angry" with after his 5.

Neji
08-09-2008, 23:58
I think Neji has linked to my discussion of that.

I certianly did, its my 'goto move' when people complain about this now :D

Alurny
08-09-2008, 23:59
Normal 4-4-2, no changes.

http://i35.tinypic.com/261yh61.jpg

Amaroq
09-09-2008, 00:28
I certianly did, its my 'goto move' when people complain about this now :D
w00t! I taught somebody a PPM before FM'09 came out!

walsh
09-09-2008, 00:35
appreciate the responses, can I just add though that I am not slating this game for the sake of it and am not one of those people saying "I'm not buying 09" I truly enjoy this game and (as we all do) just want it to be as good as it can be!

one thing I did pick up on was the "None" option in team-talks which I barely/never use so I'll give that a test.

I know you may not all agree with my opinions on everything but I assure you it's things I've found since last October, not just something I'm ranting about after 1 bad game (my current game is actually going very well)

most of the things that were pointed out to me, I understood and probably agreed with, I guess we all pick up on and experience different things, maybe my fundamental management methods are just different, which in turn bring about different results!

The 5-0 at half time/goalless second half point, I thought exactly the same as I typed it, I didn't mean to imply I expected a 10-0 final score, just that the balance of early to late goals seems in reverse of reality imo.

Neji
09-09-2008, 01:17
w00t! I taught somebody a PPM before FM'09 came out!

I feel so used :(

Walsh, glad you aren't taking this on a 'I'm right you're wrong' attitude type of thing we usually see on this forum :thup:

Indi75
09-09-2008, 01:28
appreciate the responses, can I just add though that I am not slating this game for the sake of it and am not one of those people saying "I'm not buying 09" I truly enjoy this game and (as we all do) just want it to be as good as it can be!

one thing I did pick up on was the "None" option in team-talks which I barely/never use so I'll give that a test.

I know you may not all agree with my opinions on everything but I assure you it's things I've found since last October, not just something I'm ranting about after 1 bad game (my current game is actually going very well)

most of the things that were pointed out to me, I understood and probably agreed with, I guess we all pick up on and experience different things, maybe my fundamental management methods are just different, which in turn bring about different results!

The 5-0 at half time/goalless second half point, I thought exactly the same as I typed it, I didn't mean to imply I expected a 10-0 final score, just that the balance of early to late goals seems in reverse of reality imo.

Personally I found Wolfsongs thread, whiuch I suddnely cannot find, but is in the tactics forum, a great help in terms of team talks both for the team and individually. It's not a fixit guide by any means and still requires a little consideration for the match at hand but certainly changed both my understanding of use as well as my shocking second half performances for the better.

Neji
09-09-2008, 01:31
Personally I found Wolfsongs thread, whiuch I suddnely cannot find, but is in the tactics forum, a great help in terms of team talks both for the team and individually. It's not a fixit guide by any means and still requires a little consideration for the match at hand but certainly changed both my understanding of use as well as my shocking second half performances for the better.

Here you go (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=5494&highlight=Wolfgang)

Indi75
09-09-2008, 01:35
Here you go (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=5494&highlight=Wolfgang)

Thankee kind sir! :thup:

Amaroq
09-09-2008, 02:04
I'm not quite as convinced that the "early goals" is a problem - I'm managing an eight-team campaign at the moment, of all silly things, and while yes I do have two teams which seem to concede early goals altogether too often, the others don't have that problem .. so I'd come to the conclusion that there is something wrong with my personnel - poor gelling, inconsistency, losing mentality, or something, with those two teams.