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Miles Jacobson
08-09-2008, 10:53
As promised, although slightly later than anticipated, here are some of the specific MLS features for FM2009.

Designated player rule added to ensure that the teams with more financial backing are able to sign one player outside the designated wage fund, or two by gaining another designated player slot in a trade. You can also offer your designated player slot to other clubs.

Allocation funds can also be offered to other MLS clubs in a trade, with $1 of the Allocation fund being worth $5 in transfers between MLS teams.

Transfer budgets now only change when an allocation is awarded – these are awarded in 2 ways in FM09, if a team fails to make the play-offs, and if a MLS team sells a player (the former is $300,000 and the latter limited to $500k)

GillsMan
08-09-2008, 10:56
Cool, should improve the realism when managing in America.

King Jeff
08-09-2008, 11:22
Will the CONCACAF Champions League be included?

kccircle
08-09-2008, 11:25
Why do the MLS make it so complicated. Been playing FM/CM since CM2 and still failed to finish a season in the US

hannam1989
08-09-2008, 12:02
kool cant wait some good changes there

meter
08-09-2008, 14:40
Miles -

First off thank you Miles for paying attention to MLS and addressing the issues. Lets hope this year it is truly playable.

Secondly I think MLS and the USSF owes SI a thank you for this series. I never payed attention to "soccer"
in my life until about 8 years ago when I purchased my first copy of CM. It took a while for me to catch on
but today I am a consumer of the MLS product and supporter of US Mens National Team. I can't get enough
the beautiful game. I know there are many others like me out there...

I truly think that SI is the St Patrick of Football and the USA is your Ireland....Please free us from the baseball
and basketball pagans!!!

Amaroq
08-09-2008, 15:43
Thank you for the update, Miles, as well as for the attention to detail in this area.

Has the "developmental contract becomes a Senior contract" bug been sorted?

looknohands
08-09-2008, 18:24
I'm with meter- I didn't pay too much attention to MLS (and football in general) until I played FM06 and signed with DishNetwork (Fox Soccer Channel.) Now I watch MLS every chance I get, even catching the Sunday games on one of the Spanish channels, and football has become my favorite sport (I can't even watch the NFL now.)
As for the changes, thank you SI for your continued dedication to a league that, in all probability, actually contributes little (if anything) to your bottom line. You have earned yourselves a small, dedicated following that I'm sure would be more than willing in offering any help with your product as it relates to our odd little league. I understand demo's won't be made available to the public for testing, so I encourage you guys to keep an eye on the various MLS threads and approach us with any questions you may have about how to improve the playability of the league.

Aleh
08-09-2008, 18:26
Fantastic news, love managing as New York and seen a couple of errors so good to know there being rectified.

Nerion
08-09-2008, 18:32
I will be giving it another try then. :)

Viking
08-09-2008, 18:43
Nice to hear. I am really starting to look forward to this game.

yankee_ram
08-09-2008, 19:43
This is good news, I will definatally be giving the MLS another shot now that these things are fixed. Like another poster said, will the CONCACAF Champions League be in this version?

Ben7
08-09-2008, 22:57
post removed by user

Amaroq
08-09-2008, 23:00
Ben7 - there is a long thread in the Bugs forum containing all of those items and more, I think .. we don't need to use this thread to collate the problems. :) That said, I am hoping that SI can confirm some additional fixes, e.g., things off of that list that they know have been addressed.

torsportsfan
09-09-2008, 00:33
thank you for making some progress, Can't wait to play with TFC

x3widRacin
09-09-2008, 00:55
Why do the MLS make it so complicated. Been playing FM/CM since CM2 and still failed to finish a season in the US

I don't know, thats why so many of us have been trying to get the USL (USA Lower Levels) into the game, with no luck as of yet.

I live in America currently and am part of USA research but there is to me little point in playing the game with USA league as it is very restrictive and there are no sub-leagues available as of now.

rancer890
09-09-2008, 01:11
Yes! Allocations.:D

I'm ready to rule the world (at the least the MLS) with TFC on FM09!:D

ifleming
09-09-2008, 02:52
Well done on making strides to improve MLS. Allocations have been a major missing piece of the puzzle, and improved DP slot AI should do worlds to help playability.

GerdMuller
09-09-2008, 19:30
Sound interesting, might give the MLS a try now. Still for absolute relaism there should be new team each year. ;-) Never saw that option in a game but in Madden though.

Viking
09-09-2008, 19:56
Speaking of realism: Iīd like too see a feature in the editor where you can force a player to stay in a club due to studies (I know there was such a feature in some version of CM). The reason is I like to add a large number of IRL US talents to the DB, and I do not want to see them sign for a MLS-club right away as they are in various colleges and universities (sp.).

Sorry if this is OT.

Amaroq
09-09-2008, 19:59
Viking - give them a future contract (pre-contract). Then they can't transfer until the future contract starts. You may be able to represent this as a transfer, e.g., have them "transfer" for $0 from College A to College B .. three years down the line. They won't be able to sign a professional contract until their contract with College B starts.

Viking
09-09-2008, 20:01
Viking - give them a future contract (pre-contract). Then they can't transfer until the future contract starts. You may be able to represent this as a transfer, e.g., have them "transfer" for $0 from College A to College B .. three years down the line. They won't be able to sign a professional college until their contract with College B starts.

Great idea. Thanks!

Nicki
09-09-2008, 20:03
Cool!!! But will the waiver draft work this time?

mancityheel
09-09-2008, 21:42
I started off my last game in MLS but not having the draft work after the first year made the league unplayable. Hopefully that gets straightened out. Also, this may or may not be related but the quality of the US National team deteriorated markedly over time in that game--the quality of players the U.S. was producing was very bad, at the same time Mexico became a top 5 world power!

It would be nice also to have the USL divisions playable (as they were years ago) but I imagine that's not in the cards.

also good would be a way to scout college players so you don't have to rely just on the draft combine results. Ability to draft well has become an important factor in shaping MLS club success--look at New England Revolution--and a lot of that is rooted in scouting.

King Jeff
09-09-2008, 22:10
There were a lot of documented problems with the CA/PA figures of players coming out of the draft. That may explain why the US National Team got worse and worse over time -- none of the newgens being created were good enough.

looknohands
09-09-2008, 22:49
Part of the problem is how younger players are developed. I bumped up the training/youth facilities for all the teams in America and Canada to see if it would help player development, but to little success. Players I loaned to Canadian teams made small gains (with Good facilities) while the players I loaned to the Toronto Lynx (a former USL team that became a development squad when TFC came about) actually decreased in ability, despite having similar buildings. I understand that the Development League isn't very competitive, but shouldn't it at least help to, I don't know, develop the talent of players?

Navie
09-09-2008, 23:09
Btw...what is MLS?

shaunsweeney3
09-09-2008, 23:17
Btw...what is MLS?

MLS stands for Major League soccer.......... its the league in the USA, the one that david beckham is playing in.

Amaroq
10-09-2008, 00:03
There were a lot of documented problems with the CA/PA figures of players coming out of the draft. That may explain why the US National Team got worse and worse over time -- none of the newgens being created were good enough.
Follow-up, for those who have not followed those threads.

This and the "development" problem were tightly related. In general, aside from the few players at the very top of the draft, players generated for the MLS draft had such a low CA that they wouldn't get playing time even if you loaned them out to teams like Seattle, California, etc .. and they certainly wouldn't get playing time on the MLS teams, especially the AI-controlled teams.

This lack of playing time stunted their development, and ensured that they would never reach their full PA. However, they would develop just enough to perpetuate the cycle .. by reaching a level good enough that they'd keep the next crop of young players out of playing time. It led to a depression in talent as measured by CA for MLS and the U.S.A. overall, which led to the U.S.A. getting worse and the MLS becoming very easy for a clever human player to rise to dominance in after several seasons had passed.

Amaroq
10-09-2008, 00:04
Great idea. Thanks!
You're welcome!

Navie
10-09-2008, 00:09
MLS stands for Major League soccer.......... its the league in the USA, the one that david beckham is playing in.

I get you now, cool.

Mike7077
10-09-2008, 00:38
No mention of whether the problems of the poor quality of draft players has been addressed. But good to see the MLS get some attention. I can't quite hack it myself, although I know I'll be tempted to try.

javier_83
10-09-2008, 01:11
thats exelent!! can you tell us, is the new format of the concacaf champions league is include??

Superman_uk123
10-09-2008, 01:32
I wonder if any of the new teams which will be coming into formation will be coded to come into the league when they are due to do so?

Ben7
10-09-2008, 09:26
post removed by user

Superman_uk123
10-09-2008, 10:26
I'm pretty sure SI will have the actual 2008 MLS license = 14 Teams and the current rules. No future expansion teams (Seattle, Phili etc) yet

In the worst case just swap your team (ex. Seattle) for the MLS team you rate the worst/don't like at all.

But couldn't they just put he future expansion teams in the game but not active (sort of how the USSR is there, but unplayable), so that we can input them ourselves if we so want (if you or anyone else gets what I am saying! :D)

King Jeff
10-09-2008, 11:31
Licensing issues makes that impossible.

Carl_272
10-09-2008, 13:45
I truly think that SI is the St Patrick of Football and the USA is your Ireland....Please free us from the baseball
and basketball pagans!!!

That has to be one of the strangest analogies I've ever seen. Well put though. :D

mancityheel
10-09-2008, 18:00
well if they're not going to have Seattle and Philly in there (Seattle's already signed some players, like Kasey Keller) there's not a lot of point in playing MLS in the game, if you're looking for a simulation. I don't really see why a deal couldn't be worked out to include them. sigh. maybe MLS will be playable in FM 10.

King Jeff
10-09-2008, 22:33
It won't, because it will be missing the 2011 expansion teams :D

Sure it sucks that a couple expansion teams won't be included, but I'd prefer that they get the league to a long-term playable state.

Donners
11-09-2008, 01:06
It's all irrelevant unless the draft is fixed. That's the only thing I need to hear about the MLS.

Fqdd
11-09-2008, 01:49
Americans complicate things too much, then this is what they get :(

Amaroq
11-09-2008, 05:50
Americans complicate things too much, then this is what they get :(
I don't think that's it, actually.

MLS, when it first started up, couldn't decide if it wanted to appeal to football fans, or to fans of the American sports. So it tried to appease both ... and missed its market entirely.

At least we've done away with the most egregious problems: the "there's no such thing as a tie" rule, and the crazy hockey-style "start from the halfway line" penalty shootouts.

Things like the draft, the playoffs, and the salary cap are all perfectly understandable to Americans because they exist (in some form or other) in each of our other sports.

Historically, when you look back at, say, the NASL, salaries accelerated to a point where, to win, a team had to spend more than it could earn .. but if it couldn't win, it couldn't attract enough fans to even pay the wages. The salary cap, the draft, and the "MLS rights to a player" rules are all designed to keep clubs out of bidding wars, and enforce that they spend within their means ...

... and also to ensure that "every club has a chance", because for some inexplicable reason we tend to like "parity", defined as "you can't predict who is going to win any given match with real confidence".

Ben7
11-09-2008, 05:50
post removed by user

Normthebarman
11-09-2008, 11:55
I don't entirely see why these new teams can't join the MLS down the line in the game world, especially if SI know the dates they are joining. If anyone has played in the German Regional leagues in FM08, they'll know that the game created 2 new divisions after the first season. Basically, after the 1st season, 38 teams who were unplayable suddenly entered the league system due to restructuring.

I don't know what's happening in MLS with regards to new teams coming in, but if it's simply a case of on such and such a date, Seattle and Philly join the MLS, and the league is expanded, then this has already been done in Germany. If there are already deals for players to join these clubs as well, (someone mentioned Kasey Keller) then surely a simple "is scheduled to join *insert team name* on mm/dd/yyyy" on the players contract screen is not outwith the boundaries of reason.

I hope this is coded in for you guys. Best of luck in your "crazee" league setup. ;)

Ter
11-09-2008, 12:03
I don't entirely see why these new teams can't join the MLS down the line in the game world, especially if SI know the dates they are joining. If anyone has played in the German Regional leagues in FM08, they'll know that the game created 2 new divisions after the first season. Basically, after the 1st season, 38 teams who were unplayable suddenly entered the league system due to restructuring.

I'm pretty sure it's because our license only covers the 2008 season for the MLS so the teams and setup has to be based on that season

Normthebarman
11-09-2008, 13:29
But you can do what you like for a league you dont have the licence for?

I mean, I know it's not "technically" the actual German leagues in the game but it is a pretty strange situation that an FA you have a relationship with (MLS) won't let you factor in these changes but the DFB can't do anything about the German ones.

The worlds of business politics and licensing laws are very strange indeed.....

Amaroq
11-09-2008, 18:19
But you can do what you like for a league you dont have the licence for?
Nope, definitely not. The contract will be very specific in its terms.

I'd love it if the contract gave SI the right to include any planned expansions announced prior to the release of the game, to occur in-game on the date that they are announced for, but clearly such a clause is not in the contract. Perhaps when it is renegotiated - but possibly not, as MLS may be intentionally excluding such from the contract.


The worlds of business politics and licensing laws are very strange indeed.....
Amen!

looknohands
11-09-2008, 22:18
Well, last night I used FMM on my saved game to soup up the draft picks. All 125 players. Going by a quick glance at the database the typical MLS rookie has a 95 or so CA, give or take 10 points. But for the draft to have any talent I had to typically bump player's CA level 20 to 30 points. The PA ratings were possibly on the low side, but there was a few 170's and 160's to be found- too bad they had CA's of about 70, and were 22 years old. So it is possible to have an effective draft with the current format, so long as you're willing to work at it!

Coasterkoa
13-09-2008, 06:56
I was expecting another year of mediocrity as far as MLS realism goes, but this sounds awesome. I hope the rest of the new rules make it into the game, I.E. waiving a player releases all rights that a club has on a player, and there now being 8 tradable international spots regardless of age, etc.

I also hope to see all of the bugs worked out. I assume SI knows about them, but I would be happy to provide a (long) list should someone need reminding.

All in all, its sounds promising. What I think I enjoy the most about all of this is that it seems that SI put a little extra effort into MLS this year, which makes me believe that it will have much less bugs than 08.

Nelson84
13-09-2008, 07:04
MLS is a complicated system as it's based on franchise, like pretty much everything in the North American sports world... hopefully someday they'll understand that you can't hope to be competitive by changing virtually your whole roster every year and neglecting continental competitions lol (that's how you get kicked out by teams from T&T or Panama).

Regarding the game itself, those license issues are what makes MLS one of the least re-playable leagues. Because so many things change from one year to another ! New teams, defunct ones, ...

The only time I finished a season in MLS was when I switched one of the teams for Montreal lol... and even then, I had to edit my team and give USA as a second nation to all my players.

I pray for USL and CSL to be included some day soon lol :D looking at TFC roster, I think the only way to actually win competitions with more than two Canadian players on the pitch is to play in the Canadian league :) ... or with the Impact or Vancouver in the USL.

bflaff
13-09-2008, 21:28
@ Miles and SI: Thanks for continuing to try and get MLS right.

c10ckw0rk
14-09-2008, 00:43
I pray for USL and CSL to be included some day soon lol
I think USL should be included but it will take a lot of time before they add CSL.

Nelson84
14-09-2008, 05:11
Maybe when the competition's winner is admitted into the newly founded Canadian Championship !

Right now the teams that compete for the national title are Montreal and Vancouver from the USL and Toronto from MLS... the winner of the national league can't even participate in the competition that names the Canadian national champion. That means if you play in the CSL, you can only play CSL games... no way for you to play in continental cups.

Amaroq
18-09-2008, 01:46
Sounds like a simple fix - put the CSL champion in there with the big three, and you've got a nicer competition format with four clubs for either knock-out or group play. ;)

Nicki
18-09-2008, 09:27
I hope the USL will be added, because they are almost the only clubs you can send players on loan to (As a MLS team) and they only play matches in the preseason so you players will not get any better, infact they get better if you let them stay on your reserve team as it is right now, if SI will not add the USL, atleast make them play matches vs each other so you can loan out players and see some improvements.

c10ckw0rk
19-09-2008, 20:42
I hope Canada is gonna have a spot in CONCACAF Champion's League as Montreal Impact won their first group phase game.

uclazy31
20-09-2008, 05:13
MLS needed a lot of work. It is so different from the rest of the footballing world that to make it realistic probably takes more code than any other league. One thing about it though is that if it gets sorted properly it will become a real challenge for football manager fans. the restrictions on who you can sign and the draft make it real tough.

English fans might do well to pay attention to the mls because i think it is very likely that the prem league ends up in a franchise model in the next ten years. There is too much money at stake for the big teams to risk relegation. Your going to see a set number of teams at maybe 18-20 in the bpl. Those teams will then set up deals with the lower league teams and set up farm systems like mlb has.

fromthemachine
20-09-2008, 21:22
Definitely one of the most challenging leagues to stay on top of. Good work, SI. Now give a little love to the draft.

nick1408
21-09-2008, 02:19
will some of the changes with the mls also be replicated in the A-League which has some of the same rules (designated player etc)

Leezoid
21-09-2008, 09:47
Thanks SI for the extra effort that has been made on MLS this year, it's the only league I really play so I hope to have more fun playing FM09 than I did with FM08!

Any chance of confirming if the problem with developmental contracts (i.e. becoming 'senior developmental' after a year-which doesn't happen IRL) has been dealt with?

Seller
21-09-2008, 18:40
If SI added the ability to "increase and add" teams to a league via an editor then we could just take care of the expansion ourselves.

DvOLUTiOn
22-09-2008, 02:00
I'd love to be able to play in teh USL as well, imo the MSL is dumb and should crash and burn lol (ok maybe not). But the MLS ruling winds that league. Uclazy, the teams that have something to loose itn eh peremiership won't go down anyways because they earn too much money and thus have too much quality players to be relegated. They doesn't need an american model, their system has been working for well over 100 years, it has proved itself as a working model.

podoooo
22-09-2008, 03:25
Good to hear about these changes. MLS is a great league to play in, just a shame about the problems in past FMs (e.g. teams releasing their best players, terrible players in the draft etc.). Hopefully these are all fixed/improved on.

Beware
22-09-2008, 04:03
I'm really pleased that there will be changes in the MLS. Still hoping (But sadly doubting...) that the USL will be there, but I'll take whats given.

DanGLiverpool
22-09-2008, 21:30
i was managing new england revolution in 2017, and i happened to get this american guy in the draft, who scored 38 goals in my unbeaten season, i was 4 seasons undefeated, not the hardest league, he got into american team and became legendary

but i am happy there are improvements this season

7CHP
23-09-2008, 00:37
I have two simple, perhaps dumb questions, but they need answers too!

First, the usual: I've been playing this game since CM03/04, 7 seasons+ network back then. Since I've been hooked, buying CM or FM on the release day (or earlier), so I'm addicted.

But now I have an issue. I have moved from Norway to the US, and here the local retailers are selling World Wide Soccer Manager 2009 from November 1st.

Is the WWSM09 the same as FM09?

I have also switched to Mac (don't ask, it is NOT better, rather equally crappy) - will my MacBook Pro running WWSM09 be compatible for network gaming with my Norwegian friends who run PC and FM09?

Thank you

Mr. Lionel
23-09-2008, 09:36
So have you done anything to make it so that regens have halfway decent ca's? This is by far the biggest problem with the MLS in FM.

mark-united fan
23-09-2008, 09:54
is the american wonderkid charles renken in the game?because freddy adu was at that age!

mark-united fan
23-09-2008, 10:00
is the wonderkid charles renken in the game because freddy adu was at that age!

McMaster#28
23-09-2008, 10:21
Freddy Adu was drafted and played in the MLS at that age though. Charles hasn't (yet) been drafted though. Still at Residency iirc.

mark-united fan
23-09-2008, 10:39
Freddy Adu was drafted and played in the MLS at that age though. Charles hasn't (yet) been drafted though. Still at Residency iirc.

was he not in championship manager 4 as a free agent?correct me if im wrong!

DanGLiverpool
23-09-2008, 15:40
I have two simple, perhaps dumb questions, but they need answers too!

First, the usual: I've been playing this game since CM03/04, 7 seasons+ network back then. Since I've been hooked, buying CM or FM on the release day (or earlier), so I'm addicted.

But now I have an issue. I have moved from Norway to the US, and here the local retailers are selling World Wide Soccer Manager 2009 from November 1st.

Is the WWSM09 the same as FM09?

I have also switched to Mac (don't ask, it is NOT better, rather equally crappy) - will my MacBook Pro running WWSM09 be compatible for network gaming with my Norwegian friends who run PC and FM09?

Thank you

1. I believe WWSM09 is the same game as FM09, just a different title
perhaps different wording but nothing drastic

2. I presume a network game will be the same, its the exact same game just a different title
the make of your computer wont affect things either, its one big world, not everyone runs on the windows or mac do they?

but you get your game 2 weeks earlier, nice one

MSCCG
25-09-2008, 10:29
Can you tell us about any improvements in youth development?

looknohands
01-10-2008, 00:43
Will there be any tweaks made to the squads/numbering? Namely, will we be able to choose whether or not to place a player or Injured Reserve? MLS rules dictate that a player on IR can't be waived, that his salary must still be paid (though not counting against the cap) and, most importantly, a roster spot is opened up to sign a replacement. For instance I just played a season and my best striker was injured in August and was out for 4 months, meaning he missed the rest of the season. In real life, I could have signed a replacement for him, but with my roster already at 28 players I had to carry on the rest of the season short a man.

Inkstier
04-10-2008, 03:36
Also, how will the developing youth academies of the MLS be worked into the game? As it stands now the only way to get American players is via the draft....

King Jeff
05-10-2008, 12:09
This thread hasn't exactly filled me with confidence.

Leezoid
05-10-2008, 16:42
This thread hasn't exactly filled me with confidence.

It would be nice to have some of these questions answered, but the very existence of this thread leads me to believe that SI have listened to the problems about MLS in FM08 and are attempting to do something about it....

...fingers crossed.

themoffster
05-10-2008, 17:00
This thread hasn't exactly filled me with confidence.
None of these official threads have filled me with confidence.
Posting them so soon, then nobody from SI taking thetime to answer the series of questions makes me question them.

If they are so busy, why bother to post them so soon before the blogs?

wandsfan93
08-10-2008, 19:04
Will there be expansions in the new version ie Seattle Sounders joining in '09, and Philly in 2010?

Amaroq
08-10-2008, 19:43
Will there be expansions in the new version ie Seattle Sounders joining in '09, and Philly in 2010?
No - SI have explained previously that the way the MLS sells its license, that is not possible. The license is apparently for the league as it stands at the specific season licensed for. Its a real shame, honestly - I think its a bit short-sighted, actually.

Aljarov
09-10-2008, 23:02
There's actually more to this than Miles has indicated (a good thing!)...lots of time to go through them all.

Plenty of improvements in MLS this coming version, as well as a clean up on the issues that were around for FM08.

There's a ton of stuff in here...I'm sure lots will be elaborated on in the very near future. But yeah, squad related issues like numbering, waivers, contracts, trades and other things have received a lot of attention.

For the person askign about Renken - he can't be in until he signs a pro deal with the league or abroad. He's an amateur athlete and there's all sorts of issues relating to that.

I'd love Seattle's expansion to be in, but it's been said many times - the license doesn't cover it.

MLS is going to be miles better this year with some really key additions.

Kritik
10-10-2008, 05:49
it's frustrating not to have any more news...

alanricouk
10-10-2008, 07:49
Will SI make a short description in game, or the booklet on how the MLS works? All this talk about waivers, drafts and first picks etc goes right over my head when I try to play, so just turn it off.

jsolloso
10-10-2008, 15:29
The US run footbal, yes football just like Basketball and they're both a world away from each other. How do you trade? who with? The whole process is bizarre, I've seen players 4 yrs at a club where the message still reads "1st draft pick option held by Kansas". How? He's been gone for 4 years!!

c10ckw0rk
10-10-2008, 16:38
It maybe just means that this player was a 1st draft pick in 199X...

Anyway, I just hope that USL is gonna be included, Montréal Impact gonna be in CONCACAF Champion's League Quarter Finals.

Amaroq
10-10-2008, 18:09
Will SI make a short description in game, or the booklet on how the MLS works? All this talk about waivers, drafts and first picks etc goes right over my head when I try to play, so just turn it off.
Alijarov used to have a great little "MLS Short Guide" - I don't know where its hosted, now, but it would be great if he could donate that to SI so SI could include it in-game in some way. If you can find it, it did an excellent job of explaining all the vagaries of the MLS system, some of which are pretty obscure even to Americans familiar with the other U.S. sports leagues.

meter
11-10-2008, 18:52
There's actually more to this than Miles has indicated (a good thing!)...lots of time to go through them all.

Plenty of improvements in MLS this coming version, as well as a clean up on the issues that were around for FM08.

There's a ton of stuff in here...I'm sure lots will be elaborated on in the very near future. But yeah, squad related issues like numbering, waivers, contracts, trades and other things have received a lot of attention.

For the person askign about Renken - he can't be in until he signs a pro deal with the league or abroad. He's an amateur athlete and there's all sorts of issues relating to that.

I'd love Seattle's expansion to be in, but it's been said many times - the license doesn't cover it.

MLS is going to be miles better this year with some really key additions.


Concacaf Champions League??

c10ckw0rk
13-10-2008, 00:17
CONCACAF Champions League is in. I think it has been already said... but it's written on Wikipedia anyway.

Kritik
13-10-2008, 00:22
won't be much fun though because of all inactive leagues represented in it

CCSUltra
13-10-2008, 20:23
Any idea of when/if the USL leagues will become playable?

Aljarov
14-10-2008, 00:59
Will SI make a short description in game, or the booklet on how the MLS works? All this talk about waivers, drafts and first picks etc goes right over my head when I try to play, so just turn it off.

I usually make an MLS Player's Guide...and plan to again this version. My new affiliate site is unlikely to be up and running so I'll find somewhere to host it. You're right, the rules are CONFUSING...the guide helps...

Aljarov
14-10-2008, 01:04
I really wish the USL was in, but it's not in this version either. Best advice I can give is all those that want USL in to make as much noise as possible...Lord knows I've been championing the cause since I got involved as HR. In my opinion it's the most needed feature to make the US/MLS gaming experience complete and rounded...the lack of the USL stiffles the opportunity to play any kind of LLM. Having the USL in would also add playable teams in Puerto Rico, Bermuda and triple the number of playable Canadian teams, not to mention adding major US market teams like Seattle, Miami, Minnesota, Portland etc....

Maybe someone (other than me) should start a petition or something? That would be a good way to show that there really is support in numbers for the idea and not just a few squeaky wheels? Anyone up for getting the ball rolling?

c10ckw0rk
14-10-2008, 06:32
I really wish the USL was in, but it's not in this version either.
NooOooo!!! I'm sad now.

looknohands
14-10-2008, 22:46
I'd much prefer SI really get a handle on the MLS before trying to add the USL. The improvements being implemented sound good now, but I'll have a hard time forgetting how terrible the league was in the first two versions of 08, considering the league in 07 was workable (drafts excluded, of course!)

Amaroq
14-10-2008, 23:54
I usually make an MLS Player's Guide...and plan to again this version. My new affiliate site is unlikely to be up and running so I'll find somewhere to host it. You're right, the rules are CONFUSING...the guide helps A LOT...
Corrected, my friend. ;)

looknohands
15-10-2008, 18:45
Will Toronto have the extra international slots they received for the 08 season? They were bumped up to 16 (including Americans) once they realized there wasn't enough talent being produced in Canada.

DaLoneGun
16-10-2008, 19:36
I am wondering what Jozy Altidore will be rated in potential quality this year with Villareal

GoGa70
16-10-2008, 21:04
I'd much prefer SI really get a handle on the MLS before trying to add the USL. The improvements being implemented sound good now, but I'll have a hard time forgetting how terrible the league was in the first two versions of 08, considering the league in 07 was workable (drafts excluded, of course!)

Actually, USL has many advantages over MLS

1. Easy structure

2. No draft

3. No salary cap

4. Lax foreigner rule

If anything USL WILL generate more interest because many Europeans will have no problem managing in it, since the rules are very simple.

Too bad SI dropped this league - it used to be in CM01/02 if I recall correctly.

Kritik
16-10-2008, 22:14
I am wondering what Jozy Altidore will be rated in potential quality this year with Villareal

this is irrelevant to MLS issues since he left.

Aljarov
17-10-2008, 15:08
Will Toronto have the extra international slots they received for the 08 season? They were bumped up to 16 (including Americans) once they realized there wasn't enough talent being produced in Canada.

Actually, TFC has 18 total international slots for 2008 (per MLS).

All of the traded international and DP slots are in and represented accurately (not just for TFC but for all teams). As are the expansion slots. Those will revert back to their original owners in due course as the game plays.

International and DP slots can be acquired inthe game to offset these, or just to add them for other teams.

As you know, offering players and picks etc in MLS has never worked - i don't know the exact reason for that, but apparently it's something to do with the MLS trade engine being totally different. The DP slot was a nightmare to incorporate but it's in now and you can acquire DP slots by offering players in exchange. It's a rough fix, but it was important to get it in somehow. It's much easier to offer your DP slot though. International slots are also much easier to do. The importnant thing is these are all in,.

Aljarov
17-10-2008, 15:19
Actually, USL has many advantages over MLS

1. Easy structure

2. No draft

3. No salary cap

4. Lax foreigner rule

If anything USL WILL generate more interest because many Europeans will have no problem managing in it, since the rules are very simple.

Too bad SI dropped this league - it used to be in CM01/02 if I recall correctly.

As I recall, it was last in CM4. Might be wrong on that....too lazy to look it up! :)

The USL is a considerably easier league structure than MLS....but I don't think that's the issue. Licensing and coding resources are more prominent I would imagine. Let's not forget, MLS takes up a HUGE amount of coding support relative to other leagues, and especially relative to the market share here (which is NOT helped by people importing copies of FM as opposed to buying WSM - buying 'our' version would help validate the argument to add USL) due to MLS's constant changing rules, league structure and so on. I'm not kidding when I say MLS and it's little 14 teams gets more coding time than any other league.

I don't think USL would add much to this, but I guess it's importnant to get MLS right first. There's so many minefields with MLS, especially with constantly moving goalposts....caused by expansion and new rules.

I think it's essential that USL is in sooner or later, even a basic/unlicensed league (if possible) would be better than nothing. I miss the chance to play as near to an LLM game as you'll get in America, without promotion. I'd also like to see the CSL added at some point....there's lots of players in Canada too, and with TFC, Vancouver and Montreal all enjoying successes of one kind or another up there, then now would be a good time to be focusing on that market too (obviously adding USL D1 would add those 2 other Canadian teams as playable).

Aljarov
17-10-2008, 15:27
well if they're not going to have Seattle and Philly in there (Seattle's already signed some players, like Kasey Keller) there's not a lot of point in playing MLS in the game, if you're looking for a simulation. I don't really see why a deal couldn't be worked out to include them. sigh. maybe MLS will be playable in FM 10.

I'd love nothing more than an expansion option (like you can do in other games)....but licensing aside, the coding support for that would be enormous and MLS code in the game is not ready to be adding huge projects on top. I think it's much more important to get the code accurate and playable as of the 2008 season - the licensed season - as who knows what rule changes are just around the corner? For all we know they could introduce a domestic DP rule, or 2nd and 3rd DP rules, increase roster sizes or dramatically change the cap for next season. Would having Seattle Sounders FC coming in really matter at that point? With MLS you could second guess yourself forever, so realistically, you just have to wade in at some point and draw the line. Having a license for a specific season makes it easy to say where that is...all our efforts are based on making sure 2008 season is as accurate as possible...because we don't know what's around the corner....

Maybe one day on the expansion sides....but to be fair, the rules for the expansion draft aren't even known yet - and they've never been the same from one to the next so there's no basis of reference. Since SJ came in the rules on internationals have changed - I wouldn't even know where to start to recommend rules for this, let alone ask someone to code it in. The game will be released before it takes place so how exactly would you expect this to be done as I'm curious?

GoGa70
17-10-2008, 20:21
MLS takes up a HUGE amount of coding support relative to other leagues, and especially relative to the market share here (which is NOT helped by people importing copies of FM as opposed to buying WSM - buying 'our' version would help validate the argument to add USL)

I can't imagine USL takes anything in terms of resources - same teams, same playoff format, same number of games.

BTW, i think the early rounds of USOpen Cup are coded incorrectly, haven't checked them in FM2009 yet, but the teams playing there seem to be completely random (of course you need a running USL league for that, or at least some allocation per division).

But in terms of sales, I can assure you the only way SEGA will sell anything meaningful in the US if the game here is released the same day as in England (or even a day before). Americans are impatient, noone would wait 2-4 weeks for a game if it could be imported from overseas for 5 bucks more.

King Jeff
19-10-2008, 13:31
I can't imagine USL takes anything in terms of resources - same teams, same playoff format, same number of games.

BTW, i think the early rounds of USOpen Cup are coded incorrectly, haven't checked them in FM2009 yet, but the teams playing there seem to be completely random (of course you need a running USL league for that, or at least some allocation per division).

But in terms of sales, I can assure you the only way SEGA will sell anything meaningful in the US if the game here is released the same day as in England (or even a day before). Americans are impatient, noone would wait 2-4 weeks for a game if it could be imported from overseas for 5 bucks more.

One would hope that a downloadable version available on the release date will negate your last point. Surely SI or Steam or whomever would be able to track the location of the downloaders and realize that, yes, Virginia, there is a demand for the game in North America.


I would love to see the USL added but I question its long-term playability, as I suspect people would probably get frustrated by a second division league with no promotion. As long as the Canada Cup is included, that's good enough for me. I won't hold my breath.

Aljarov
21-10-2008, 03:22
The USL doesn't have the same teams...their line up has changed as often as MLS's lately...

Added Carlina/California, lost California, losing Seattle, adding Austin etc.... And the USL D2 is even more volatile. The numbers change, the playoffs change. It's definitely simpler...single table, no draft....but there's also licensing concerns too.

I want it in, really badly though.

Canada Cup is in, though of course, only playable as Toronto.

rancer890
21-10-2008, 03:33
The USL doesn't have the same teams...their line up has changed as often as MLS's lately...

Added Carlina/California, lost California, losing Seattle, adding Austin etc.... And the USL D2 is even more volatile. The numbers change, the playoffs change. It's definitely simpler...single table, no draft....but there's also licensing concerns too.

I want it in, really badly though.

Canada Cup is in, though of course, only playable as Toronto.

Surely it can't be too hard to get the license, considering USL was in CM before...

But I agree with the point that USL and MLS are constantly changing. Two more franchises (hoping the Impact and Whitecaps:D) will probably be switching over in 2011...

Kritik
21-10-2008, 04:39
I don't really care about USL, would never play in it, but it'd be nice to have it just for extra players to sign

Leezoid
21-10-2008, 18:00
I don't really care about USL, would never play in it, but it'd be nice to have it just for extra players to sign

But you can already sign USL players????

King Jeff
21-10-2008, 23:23
Canada Cup is in, though of course, only playable as Toronto.


\o/\o/\o/

(ten)

Kritik
22-10-2008, 01:35
But you can already sign USL players????

yeah, but there would be more of them ;) and they would have real stats.

petdawg
22-10-2008, 05:57
We have waited so long for this glorious moment. Long live the Sounders!!! Can't wait to atually play a league season with my boys. It will be a blase and something that has been a long time coming.

petdawg
22-10-2008, 05:57
We have waited so long for this glorious moment. Long live the Sounders!!! Can't wait to actually play a league season with my boys. It will be a blast and something that has been a long time coming.

wandsfan93
22-10-2008, 13:54
Sounders aren't playable in FM09.

massum
22-10-2008, 19:07
Yeh, sorry to break it to ya petdawg. Fm only has the liscense for the year just played, not the next one coming up.
2010 will be the end of your long wait.

The_Jaguars
23-10-2008, 13:50
While that's good to hear, Miles, i just hope the fundamentals of the league have been greatly improved and cleared of bugs.

Kritik
23-10-2008, 18:25
you know how the board can sell your player without your consent ? Shouldn't it be the same in MLS where GM usually makes a decision who to pick at the draft ? Or even make transfers ?

Aljarov
23-10-2008, 18:45
Theres somethings, if included, that would be just no fun...no matter how realistic. More over, I guess there's no set policy on drafting in MLS, or even on have a GM (more than one team doesn't even have a GM with the Head Coach being more of a traditional english manager).

You can still have players sold on you by the board in MLS.

Kritik
23-10-2008, 21:10
Theres somethings, if included, that would be just no fun...no matter how realistic. More over, I guess there's no set policy on drafting in MLS, or even on have a GM (more than one team doesn't even have a GM with the Head Coach being more of a traditional english manager).

You can still have players sold on you by the board in MLS.

wow, never happened to me. Screenshots ?

CCSUltra
24-10-2008, 03:58
yeah, but there would be more of them ;) and they would have real stats.

They already do have real stats. There are people like myself who research the USL clubs for the game.

I did the research for Cleveland City. You should try to sign Jose Barbosa from us. Kid has got some potential.

Kritik
24-10-2008, 04:21
They already do have real stats. There are people like myself who research the USL clubs for the game.

I did the research for Cleveland City. You should try to sign Jose Barbosa from us. Kid has got some potential.

by stats i mean stats, not skills or attributes

BelshawFM
26-10-2008, 15:26
Can someone please explain the rules of the MLS with regards transfers etc.
or at least link me to a page/article that explains it because being from england where we do things properly i dont really understand the american system to be honest

rancer890
26-10-2008, 15:37
Can someone please explain the rules of the MLS with regards transfers etc.
or at least link me to a page/article that explains it because being from england where we do things properly i dont really understand the american system to be honest

Here's a MLS guide (http://footballmanagerportal.co.uk/fm2008directory/visitsite/1437) for you.

Aljarov
03-11-2008, 16:50
Ill be doing a more up to date guide and publishing it in the Bootroom. That should make it easy for everyone to access.

I've also completed MLS-specific journalist and media files to import. This should really enhance the new news/conference/media in the game. You can message me for that until I work out where to put it once the game comes out.

Kritik
03-11-2008, 23:11
bump ....?

JJKF1
04-11-2008, 00:23
Will the lower league's be added. MLS, USL, USL-1, USL-2

Kritik
04-11-2008, 00:24
can't wait for MLS demo...

Tyler
04-11-2008, 20:43
I hope USL joins sooner rather then later.

Kritik
06-11-2008, 16:12
any news on demo ? :(

looknohands
07-11-2008, 00:53
Only a week or so till the game comes out...guess we'll just have to jump in and learn on the fly.

King Jeff
07-11-2008, 12:30
I don't know how anybody would be willing to buy this game on good faith after playing the demo/seeing other people's response to it. The FM09 demo that came out last weekend was, to be kind, disappointing.

Kritik
07-11-2008, 15:37
that is why we are waiting for a patch

SmokeyTheLeafer
07-11-2008, 20:47
They're really gonna need a patch to address Seattle, Freddy Ljungberg and Casey Keller are gonna be sitting on an unplayable USL side....

Kritik
07-11-2008, 21:43
Seattle won't be in MLS in this version, patch or no patch

Aljarov
09-11-2008, 17:22
They're really gonna need a patch to address Seattle, Freddy Ljungberg and Casey Keller are gonna be sitting on an unplayable USL side....


As has been indicated, the MLS license is for 2008 thus Seattle Sounders FC is not in. Ljungberg and Keller start the game as free agents....as they were in Jan 2008 (that's the month the game starts in FM09/WSM09).

The patch will be required for MLS gaming - I ALWAYS recommened using the latest patch as MLS work is always on-going. It's due out, what?, the day of release (i think) so i don't see that as any great inconvenience.

I think MLS has moved on considerably this year, and although the complexity of the league means it's always going to be a workin progress, it's MUCH better than FM08's version.

Viking
09-11-2008, 17:29
Does that mean MLS-teams no longer pick up youth players only to free transfer them?

looknohands
09-11-2008, 17:38
I wouldn't hold my breath. SI has had a hard time trying to program the AI to operate within MLS rules, and we all saw what happened with last year's initial attempt (i.e. every injured player was released, DP's were being released, etc.)

Kritik
10-11-2008, 01:46
seeing all the problems with FM09 demo, I wonder if it will touch MLS in a negative manner as well

Viking
10-11-2008, 16:48
I wouldn't hold my breath. SI has had a hard time trying to program the AI to operate within MLS rules, and we all saw what happened with last year's initial attempt (i.e. every injured player was released, DP's were being released, etc.)

Would be nice if any of the testers could comment on this.

Aljarov
10-11-2008, 19:57
The AI fine tuning has improved considerably...players aren't randomly released (they might be waived if a better player has been signed but not for no reason if they can't trade them). Injured players are not released any more either. DP's are not released.

FM08's version of MLS was not good - it's much better this time.

Viking
10-11-2008, 20:01
Sounds great. Thanks for the reply, Aljarov.

aw083
13-11-2008, 02:15
I must admit I'm looking forward to this. I've played the MLS in every version of Football Manager (wasn't into US Soccer back in the days of CM) and the longevity of the game is always affected by things that have already been mentioned in this thread.

Just over a day to go and I can rock the MLS with...well, I haven't decided on a team yet.

I'm just very glad to hear it'll be better than the FM08 incarnation.

Aljarov
14-11-2008, 03:31
Well the game is out tomorrow (in the UK) and on the 17th here in the USA.

My media file has been completed (save the KC stuff, which I gave my best effort).

you can download it here: (http://files.filefront.com/USA+Canada+Media+edtrar/;12345588;/fileinfo.html)


I've also put together (with the help of several members of the SI/FM community) a Facepack download to complement the images that come in the game. This should fill in almost every player in MLS as well as adds in the majority of the USMNT and CMNT players, as well as some key free agents and USL players in this area.

You can get that here: (http://files.filefront.com/v2+MLS+Plus+USMNT+CMNT+srar/;12375079;/fileinfo.html)

I thoroughly recommend also installing the Mexican facepack (onielpapas did an excellent one) as well as downloading and installing this file, which has all the logos for CONCACAF and beyond.

That can be found here: (http://files.filefront.com/LOGOS+for+North+Americarar/;12345581;/fileinfo.html)


As always, I recommend getting the patch upon purchase as it will be out immediately. The 1st patch has some key MLS fixes (SuperDraft) as well as a tweak to the media which will be good.

Let me know if you have questions.

Cheers

Aljarov

PS My MLS Game Guide is also available in the SI Bootroom, or by downloading it http://files.filefront.com/MLS+Quick+Guide+FM09+WSM9doc/;12345617;/fileinfo.html


PPS (11/16)
I have added a file with the remaing players (bar one - if anyone has a pic of Davide Enrico Somma from SJ please let me know). Only download this if you have already downloaded the main file as it's been updated effective this evening. Just downloading the Missing Players folder - http://files.filefront.com/MLS+Late+Additionsrar/;12375033;/fileinfo.html

Elim
15-11-2008, 11:58
Bravo, those media files are very impressive.

Leezoid
15-11-2008, 12:36
Yeah the media files are looking good, also impressed by the increased attention MLS seems to have in this version,

It's own section in the manual!;
Overall playoff positions table;

And numerous other things, nice work.

jayceon
15-11-2008, 23:42
how do i add the custom media files? i put them in the right folder but the media sources arent right. just says things like "the american football press" otherwise its just making up sources not real. im at a lost on how to get this right

jayceon
16-11-2008, 04:48
if anyone could tell me how to install the media files it would be greatly appreciated

Leezoid
16-11-2008, 17:42
There is a read me file with the media files with instructions

unclehulka
16-11-2008, 22:34
if anyone could tell me how to install the media files it would be greatly appreciated
http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm

Aljarov
17-11-2008, 02:37
I have posted an UPDATED MLS Facepack for download on file front.

The full MLS (plus USMNT and CMNT main guys) can be found here:http://files.filefront.com/v2+MLS+Plus+USM...;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/v2+MLS+Plus+USMNT+CMNT+srar/;12375079;/fileinfo.html) (This includes about 32 more guys and means just Davide Somma is missing from the players)



(If you were one of the people who already downloaded it, here's the folder with the missing guys only:
http://files.filefront.com/MLS+Late+Additi...;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/MLS+Late+Additionsrar/;12375033;/fileinfo.html) Just put that in the graphics folder with the rest, no need to do anything else.


Thanks again to everyone involved in helping me compile this!

atfcbrad
17-11-2008, 13:10
Now the MLS has been sorted out, can you sort out the general issues in the Welsh Leagues? I know this isn't the right place for it, but me and a few others have been saying for at least 3 years

Aljarov
17-11-2008, 18:40
I've updated several of the files to clean out some errors plus add some guys that were still missing.

You can get all/any of my MLS files on filefront.

http://hosted.filefront.com/Aljarov

(the v2 is the most recent, though really it is v3 as it fixed the configs in a couple of the folders).

For those that downloaded the original, just download the late additions (this was also updated Monday 11/17).

MarkyMark
17-11-2008, 21:59
I don't have the game yet but am planning to get WSM by the end of this week. It would be nice to know these things when I start playing.

Here are two [EDIT 3] questions (for now) about what the game does with the MLS:

1. Does the game differentiate between development and senior development contracts? If so, what are the rules regarding how many players can have which contracts?

2. Does the game take any of the league's profit/revenue sharing into account? For example, MLS plays the wages of all non-DP players while it is thought that the owners pay into a general wage pool.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Question 3: The Collective Bargaining Agreement (which I can post a link to if needed) between the MLS and the MLS Players Union outlines the wages of the development and senior development contracts, and the minimum salary of senior players. It also shows how the wages increase over the next few years, until the Agreement expires. Is this incorporated into the game? What happens when the Agreement expires?
3b. It's generally thought that permitted roster sizes will expand in the future. Is it safe to assume that the game permanently fixes the maximum in-season roster size to 28, barring season-ending injuries?

DvOLUTiOn
18-11-2008, 14:03
I don't really care about USL, would never play in it, but it'd be nice to have it just for extra players to sign

I don't really care about the stoopid MLS, an owner owning 2 teams? lmao, can you be more unprofessionnal then this ?!?! (between I am well aware that, this isn't as much the case as it used to be, with only 2 owners having 2 different teams within the league), I just can't accept the plan the league undertook to achieve the summit of norht american football.

Hopefully I will be able to play the Montreal Impact as a USL team before it becomes and expansion team of the MLS, and why are Canadians team in the USL/MLS considered as american? Canada and USA are two different country!

MarkyMark
18-11-2008, 14:46
I don't really care about the stoopid MLS, an owner owning 2 teams? lmao, can you be more unprofessionnal then this ?!?! (between I am well aware that, this isn't as much the case as it used to be, with only 2 owners having 2 different teams within the league), I just can't accept the plan the league undertook to achieve the summit of norht american football.

If some of the original owners didn't own two teams there would have been no MLS so the answer is yes, it could be more unprofessional if there was no top professional league and those college graduates went into other careers rather than playing professionally for less money than they could make elsewhere. I agree with Kritik's comments.

CCSUltra
18-11-2008, 16:23
I want USL simply because I want to manage my hometown team. Cleveland doesn't have MLS. If we can get enough researchers, USL should be in the game.

auto98uk
20-11-2008, 12:36
English fans might do well to pay attention to the mls because i think it is very likely that the prem league ends up in a franchise model in the next ten years. There is too much money at stake for the big teams to risk relegation. Your going to see a set number of teams at maybe 18-20 in the bpl. Those teams will then set up deals with the lower league teams and set up farm systems like mlb has.

Can't and won't happen

Aljarov
20-11-2008, 14:34
I don't have the game yet but am planning to get WSM by the end of this week. It would be nice to know these things when I start playing.

Here are two [EDIT 3] questions (for now) about what the game does with the MLS:

1. Does the game differentiate between development and senior development contracts? If so, what are the rules regarding how many players can have which contracts?

2. Does the game take any of the league's profit/revenue sharing into account? For example, MLS plays the wages of all non-DP players while it is thought that the owners pay into a general wage pool.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Question 3: The Collective Bargaining Agreement (which I can post a link to if needed) between the MLS and the MLS Players Union outlines the wages of the development and senior development contracts, and the minimum salary of senior players. It also shows how the wages increase over the next few years, until the Agreement expires. Is this incorporated into the game? What happens when the Agreement expires?
3b. It's generally thought that permitted roster sizes will expand in the future. Is it safe to assume that the game permanently fixes the maximum in-season roster size to 28, barring season-ending injuries?

1) Yes, there are both levels and depending on the player they will ask for one or the other. Eg in the draft, later lpicks will likely be happy to go with a dev only, with higher wanted an SD or maybe SNR contract. Lots of things contribute to what they want, but it's not an exact science...just like it's not in real life. I don't know the quotas of permissable SD and DEV deals in the league as a whole....if anyone can shed light on that i'd be interested to read about it. For now, it's determined by the player.

2. I have approximated the wages as best I can - the single entity is neither easy to conceptualise, code nor are the real workings of it known to the public. Thus the dev and GA wages are covered by MLS and the the rest comes out of team profits. In return, teams DONT get TV revenue as I assume this to go towards the wages etc... MLS is so secretive, so it's hard to have any solid facts. But the financial model is working well.

3) The CBA-related wage increases to min and DEV/SD wages are in for as long as they are known. I have not guessed past that. The salary cap does rise over the first few seasons but doesn't go on indefinitely, much in the same way the game doens't 'review' the DP rule after 2009 as it will in real life. MLS is so complex, we really have to just pitch in, for want of a better expression, and make it accurate with the information we have. As for roster sizes - no they do not increase as there's be no firm word from the league on that, in spite of a LOT of pressure this season. (Tip: sign guys and send them to your feeder teams if you want to expand your roster. They wont count to the cap/roster limits which is a good way to protect your draft picks etc..)

MarkyMark
20-11-2008, 16:59
1) Yes, there are both levels and depending on the player they will ask for one or the other. Eg in the draft, later lpicks will likely be happy to go with a dev only, with higher wanted an SD or maybe SNR contract. Lots of things contribute to what they want, but it's not an exact science...just like it's not in real life. I don't know the quotas of permissable SD and DEV deals in the league as a whole....if anyone can shed light on that i'd be interested to read about it. For now, it's determined by the player.

2. I have approximated the wages as best I can - the single entity is neither easy to conceptualise, code nor are the real workings of it known to the public. Thus the dev and GA wages are covered by MLS and the the rest comes out of team profits. In return, teams DONT get TV revenue as I assume this to go towards the wages etc... MLS is so secretive, so it's hard to have any solid facts. But the financial model is working well.

3) The CBA-related wage increases to min and DEV/SD wages are in for as long as they are known. I have not guessed past that. The salary cap does rise over the first few seasons but doesn't go on indefinitely, much in the same way the game doens't 'review' the DP rule after 2009 as it will in real life. MLS is so complex, we really have to just pitch in, for want of a better expression, and make it accurate with the information we have. As for roster sizes - no they do not increase as there's be no firm word from the league on that, in spite of a LOT of pressure this season. (Tip: sign guys and send them to your feeder teams if you want to expand your roster. They wont count to the cap/roster limits which is a good way to protect your draft picks etc..)

1. From the Collective Bargaining Agreement (http://www.mlsplayers.org/cba.html), section 10.3 ii:


Senior Developmental Players are those players designated as such by MLS, provided that there shall be an average of at least one Senior Developmental Player per Team at all times that there are an average of at least two Developmental Players per Team.


Kind of confusing...

2. Fair enough, as long as the financial model works I'm happy.

3. Thanks for the tip.


The purpose of my questions were both curiosity and wanting to know what to expect as I play through the game. I hope I didn't come off as a critic.

Clearly it's hard to make MLS both accurate to real-life rules and fun (the main reason we play the game), considering the lack of transparency and the uniqueness of the league.

In the short amount I've played so far I've really enjoyed myself. Thanks for the work you've put in to making MLS fun and playable for us.

Uncle_Sam
21-11-2008, 20:11
So has the newgen issue been sorted for MLS?

Uncle_Sam
22-11-2008, 08:47
So has the newgen issue been sorted for MLS?

bumplestilskin

unclehulka
22-11-2008, 14:37
MLS rule changes for '09:
http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20081121&content_id=205863&vkey=pr_mls&fext=.jsp
Basically, teams will now be able to carry 20 senior roster players (was 18) and 4 dev/ga players will not count against the cap.

Teams may participate in CONCACAF Champions League or SuperLiga, but not both. Oh, and the reserve teams are toast. Not that they were much of a help really.

Viking
22-11-2008, 18:36
In my current save, Los Angeles free transfers Babayaro without him playing one single game for the club, so Iīd say thereīs still some major flaws in the MLS-related AI.

looknohands
22-11-2008, 19:51
In my current save, Los Angeles free transfers Babayaro without him playing one single game for the club, so Iīd say thereīs still some major flaws in the MLS-related AI.

He's in the game? (I haven't played yet, so I wouldn't know.) In real life, Babayaro was released by LA without ever appearing for them in the league, so SI may just be reflecting this, though I'm not sure why they'd even bother putting him on the team...

Viking
22-11-2008, 19:56
He's in the game? (I haven't played yet, so I wouldn't know.) In real life, Babayaro was released by LA without ever appearing for them in the league, so SI may just be reflecting this, though I'm not sure why they'd even bother putting him on the team...

Ah. Didnīt know he was free transfered in real life. I assumed he was on the LA team at the start of the game and then free transfered, but he was probably unemployed all the time.

My misstake. Thanks for the input, and my apologies to SI.

Viking
22-11-2008, 21:11
But now FC Dallas released Abdus Ibrahim on a free, for no apparent reason.

Plus, there still seems to be "monster newgens" in the game. I just found a "Steve Kennedy" in L.A Legends and the US U21-team. Heīs 18 years old, and have stats like finishing 13, heading 15, technique 17, flair 18, agility 15.

Edit: This being the first season.

Ben Parker
23-11-2008, 20:37
Players from my Toronto team keep getting dumped for no reason without me finding out until reading it in my inbox. I also made a trade with Columbus for Moreno, and the next day both players I had traded away were waived by the Crew.

I'm also not sure about whether the teams that go into the playoffs are right. Halfway through my season and for some reason I am in a playoff spot (8th) despite two teams in the Western Conference having more points than I do. I thought points were the first deciding factor of the wild card entry teams.

John Schofield
23-11-2008, 21:13
Players from my Toronto team keep getting dumped for no reason without me finding out until reading it in my inbox. I also made a trade with Columbus for Moreno, and the next day both players I had traded away were waived by the Crew.

I'm also not sure about whether the teams that go into the playoffs are right. Halfway through my season and for some reason I am in a playoff spot (8th) despite two teams in the Western Conference having more points than I do. I thought points were the first deciding factor of the wild card entry teams.

Are you using auto number when making new signs. If the player hasn't a squad number he will be waivered.

The issue with AI teams taking players in trades they don't really want will be looked at for a future patch.

There is a bug with the playoffs positions that will be fixed in the next patch

Dallan
23-11-2008, 21:21
Players from my Toronto team keep getting dumped for no reason without me finding out until reading it in my inbox. I also made a trade with Columbus for Moreno, and the next day both players I had traded away were waived by the Crew.

Are you over the cap? I had the same problem, but I figured out it was because I'd renewed some contracts that put me over, and eventually it dumped enough players to put me back underneath it. Probably not the best way to do this. :D

Ben Parker
23-11-2008, 22:16
Yeah I'm fairly sure the players getting dumped is my fault. I basically have signed too many players, exceeded some of the maximum limits so I'm sure the CPU is trying to help me out by dumping some players sho have not been assigned numbers for whatever reason.

Good to know the playoff issue is being fixed.

Viking
25-11-2008, 20:29
Who is the youth capped "Michael Channell" in Vitoria? I canīt seem to find any info on him on the net.

Uncle_Sam
25-11-2008, 20:46
There was a Michael Channell with the Shulz Academy in Florida, but yea, I have been unable to confirm any caps.

MarkyMark
04-12-2008, 22:42
3) The CBA-related wage increases to min and DEV/SD wages are in for as long as they are known. I have not guessed past that. The salary cap does rise over the first few seasons but doesn't go on indefinitely, much in the same way the game doens't 'review' the DP rule after 2009 as it will in real life. MLS is so complex, we really have to just pitch in, for want of a better expression, and make it accurate with the information we have. As for roster sizes - no they do not increase as there's be no firm word from the league on that, in spite of a LOT of pressure this season. (Tip: sign guys and send them to your feeder teams if you want to expand your roster. They wont count to the cap/roster limits which is a good way to protect your draft picks etc..)

I tried the sending players to feeder clubs tip. Maybe I did it wrong but their season ended a few weeks before mine and I had no space on my roster for most of them. Is there a way to prevent them from coming back? Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks.

P.S. I now have 2 American feeder teams, 1 Mexican, and 1 in T&T. If I recalled a player during the USL season and sent him to a non-American, fall-to-spring season, team, do you think that would work?

Uncle_Sam
22-12-2008, 11:03
OK, so practically speaking, what effect has the patch had on MLS?

Amaroq
22-12-2008, 19:51
Here are the relevant changes from the changelist:


United States
-------------
- Allocation funds from sales outside the MLS are now correctly awarded
- Fixed an issue which sometimes qualified the wrong team for the NACL
- Fixed wrong prize money in US Cup
- Increased AI teams interest in players inside the Superdraft
- Generation Adidas players no longer require the user to offer them a contract as they now get give one automatically
- Stop players requesting contract clauses that can't be offered in the MLS
- Stopped teams signing players from the Development League when the player hasn't already been in a draft
- Designated players no longer reject terms they ask for
- AI teams should increase their transfer activity to sign Designated Players
- Stopped AI teams from going over the squad restrictions

North America
--------------
- Correct teams now entered for the CONCACAF Champions Cup in 2008

International
-------------
- Fixed CONCACAF World Cup Qualifiers being played on the wrong dates in the first season causing fixture clashes with league games
I haven't tackled an MLS game since the patch yet.

Ben7
23-12-2008, 08:21
post removed by user

Uncle_Sam
24-12-2008, 08:40
What about the finances issues, have they been resolved?

looknohands
27-12-2008, 05:20
Still losing money with TFC in a new 9.2 game...

Uncle_Sam
27-12-2008, 06:13
Is there something we, the gamers, can do with the official editor to help alleviate the problems?

Kewell08
27-12-2008, 06:23
Well, sorry to stick my nose in about something I have no idea about... But I know that only one of our professional Australian clubs turns a profit. I know that soccer isn't exactly the highest profile sport in the US, so could it be the same here?

Uncle_Sam
27-12-2008, 06:40
Well, sorry to stick my nose in about something I have no idea about... But I know that only one of our professional Australian clubs turns a profit. I know that soccer isn't exactly the highest profile sport in the US, so could it be the same here?

Yea, thats actually the case here as well. But the game isn't going to be much fun if you can never make your club profitable.

Kewell08
27-12-2008, 06:56
Ah, so it's realism vs fun.
Have a look in the editor, but I'm not sure how much control it lets you edit over the finances.

MarkyMark
29-12-2008, 03:27
I tried the sending players to feeder clubs tip. Maybe I did it wrong but their season ended a few weeks before mine and I had no space on my roster for most of them. Is there a way to prevent them from coming back? Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks.

P.S. I now have 2 American feeder teams, 1 Mexican, and 1 in T&T. If I recalled a player during the USL season and sent him to a non-American, fall-to-spring season, team, do you think that would work?

Ok, I'm happy to say I was doing it wrong. It works as long as you don't go in to the Squad Numbers assignment option again.

Viking
31-12-2008, 15:35
Colorado release a contracted Cory Gibbs for no apparent reason. Dallas release a contracted Brek Shea and Toronto resease a contracted Ibrahim for no apparent reason. In the two last cases, I can imagnie it could be related to the same "issue" that makes Barca release Bojan and Assulin, and other clubs relsease their biggest talents. But why, oh why, do MLS-teams get rid of contracted, uninjuried players with good CA and CR?

Is there really no way to make it stop?

Viking
31-12-2008, 17:37
And the teams still sign talents only to get rid of them a couple of days later. This guy is on his way to his third team in only two weeks:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/360/cphl3.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/cphl3.png/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img261/cphl3.png/1/)

Horrible!

looknohands
31-12-2008, 22:51
I'm thinking it's related to the injury bug, as I mentioned elsewhere. At any time, most teams have six or seven injuries and are scrambling to fill out their rosters. LA, in my game, had 7 goalies at one point, with 4 being injured. New York has dumped players like Van Den Bergh (who's now my highest-rated player) along with Boyens and another defender. The game *should* only be releasing the players if they're finding someone better, but too often a glance at their rosters shows numerous injuries and a bunch of amatuer-level developmental players. Again, implementing a form of Injured Reserve (of various lengths of time) would allow teams to sign replacement players without upsetting the roster specifications.

Viking
31-12-2008, 23:03
I am glad I am not the only one who find this weird. I am actually a bit surprised that a injury reserve is not already implented in the game, if such thing really exists in MLS in real life. Riz, who is involved in the FM development, made it work fine in Eastside Hockey Manager (may you rest in peace, oh great game).

However, I do hope SI take a good look at this. I am a bit disappointed it wasnīt fixed in this game.

rancer890
31-12-2008, 23:04
Wow, there still a few problems (still some from FM08 going over to FM09) with MLS...

I might stay away from MLS for a while...

Les Girondins
31-12-2008, 23:19
Wow, there still a few problems (still some from FM08 going over to FM09) with MLS...

I might stay away from MLS for a while...

Ought to be fixed up in the last patch ..

I'd love it if S.I. would seriously consider adding the US lower league/s too.

Viking
31-12-2008, 23:41
Ought to be fixed up in the last patch ..

Well, to be honest it was supposed to be fixed in FM09, as the same thing happened in FM08.

Les Girondins
31-12-2008, 23:49
Well, to be honest it was supposed to be fixed in FM09, as the same thing happened in FM08.

The odd thing is that you'd reckon if they market this in North America actively, they'd actually implement the continental leagues properly ..

rancer890
01-01-2009, 06:23
The odd thing is that you'd reckon if they market this in North America actively, they'd actually implement the continental leagues properly ..

Good think it's not too realistic since technically MLS own all contracts and they technically have the power to veto any transfer...even if the club agrees to it...Eddie Johnson (http://soccerlens.com/how-mls-has-ruined-eddie-johnson/2291/) wasn't transferred to Benfica because FC Dallas agreed to the deal but MLS didn't...

So good job SI on that part at least. You would have scared everyone from MLS if that was implemented. Last thing we need is a news item saying the league blocked the transfer for the best interests of MLS. Worse than Director of Football imo. :p

Uncle_Sam
04-01-2009, 09:02
I think we (MLS fans) are just going to have to accept that there will always be some issues with the league in FM/WSM. The league rules are very unusual and certainly difficult to code, there will probably always be knock-on effects.

King Jeff
04-01-2009, 18:28
How do you trade for other teams' draft picks?

looknohands
04-01-2009, 18:44
Can't, as far as I'm aware. I know you couldn't in previous versions. You have to wait for the computer to make you an offer, otherwise you're stuck swapping players.
Uncle Sam- yeah, I understand that MLS is ridiculously difficult to code, my problem is when I see new problems crop up (say, all developmental players being restricted to part-time training at the start of the game) that should be readily apparent to someone that actually plays the game, as opposed to just letting computers simulate it. Hopefully, if SI does incorporate testing again, one or two MLS fans will get the chance to point out any bugs/flaws that can be fixed before '10 comes out.

MarkyMark
08-01-2009, 00:35
And the teams still sign talents only to get rid of them a couple of days later. This guy is on his way to his third team in only two weeks:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/360/cphl3.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/cphl3.png/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img261/cphl3.png/1/)

Horrible!

Which database are you using? Did you add him yourself?

Viking
08-01-2009, 04:33
Which database are you using? Did you add him yourself?

I added him myself, yes.

MarkyMark
08-01-2009, 16:35
I added him myself, yes.

Ok, just wondering.

Viking
08-01-2009, 18:45
I have added some 100 players from the US youth teams and college soccer teams, including several players that are supposed to be drafted this year. Thatīs why this flaw makes me a bit... Upset.

Ben7
09-01-2009, 15:55
post removed by user

MarkyMark
10-01-2009, 16:13
I have added some 100 players from the US youth teams and college soccer teams, including several players that are supposed to be drafted this year. Thatīs why this flaw makes me a bit... Upset.

Good idea. I might try that next time.

looknohands
10-01-2009, 22:36
Question

if I reduce the Stadium Rent amount to 1 all MLS team, that should help them either make profit or not' going too much into debt ?


It should certainly help. Started a new game with TFC after adjusting ticket prices for each team (plus 4 for games, 10 for season) and it definitely brought more money in. I was over $6 million before the season started. Unfortunately, I'm at the first game of the season and my balance has already started dropping (just over $5 million now.)

John Schofield
14-01-2009, 12:09
Colorado release a contracted Cory Gibbs for no apparent reason. Dallas release a contracted Brek Shea and Toronto resease a contracted Ibrahim for no apparent reason. In the two last cases, I can imagnie it could be related to the same "issue" that makes Barca release Bojan and Assulin, and other clubs relsease their biggest talents. But why, oh why, do MLS-teams get rid of contracted, uninjuried players with good CA and CR?

Is there really no way to make it stop?

What date were these players released? Was it after the March deadline? If you could log this issue in the bugs forum with a save game from before they were released it would be a great help.


I have added some 100 players from the US youth teams and college soccer teams, including several players that are supposed to be drafted this year. Thatīs why this flaw makes me a bit... Upset.

Same with this issue. If you could log this in the bugs forum with a save game from before Hisidic signed for San Jose so I can see why he was signed and then why he was released please.

Viking
14-01-2009, 14:53
What date were these players released? Was it after the March deadline? If you could log this issue in the bugs forum with a save game from before they were released it would be a great help.

I donīt remember the dates as this whas a while ago. Iīll get back to you the next time I see this.




Same with this issue. If you could log this in the bugs forum with a save game from before Hisidic signed for San Jose so I can see why he was signed and then why he was released please.

Unfortunately this save game is deleted. Again, Iīll get back to you the next time I see this.

Viking
18-01-2009, 17:00
Ok, I now have a save where Dallas let the talented Brek Shea go on a free in late March. The team is full of made up newgens after the draft and I suppose there was little room left for real players.

Do you want me to upload it?

Edit: And if I upload it, could you also take a look at why my added dual nationality players only are eligible to play for one nation?

Viking
18-01-2009, 17:16
I went on a couple of days in the game, and I now have an american newgen named Chris Hodgson that have been drafted by Dallas, traded to Colorado, and San José have made an Ģ0 bid on him, all happening in less than a week.

Iīll start a thread in the Bugs forum and upload these two saves.

Edit: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=93630