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wardog
08-09-2008, 02:23
ok this isnt a rant or anything like tjhat alls im saying is currently i think you get about 2 seasons out of a good tactic before every AI manager clues up and counters it. I think SI should make this maybe 5 or 6 years but have the odd good manager counter it before hand. For example i remember Martin O'neil played the same tactic the whole time he was at Celtic and only had problems with it in 2 seasons where they lost the league on the final day of that particualar season, And when Peter Lovenkrands ripped Celtic apart with his pace,

So say different managers catch onto your tactic at different times allowing you time to get your tactic get it right and allow your players to settle into it.

knap
08-09-2008, 02:40
I used same tactic for 6 seasons to take Oxford from BSP to Prem title as a test for AI cracking tactics. Also 8 consecutive Prem titles with another tactic. So not aware of an issue but thats just my experience.

rinso
08-09-2008, 02:48
I used same tactic for 6 seasons to take Oxford from BSP to Prem title as a test for AI cracking tactics. Also 8 consecutive Prem titles with another tactic. So not aware of an issue but thats just my experience.

id have to agree. took over at forest in dec 09, just survived relegation from championship but managed to heavily strengthen the squad in key areas so i could play the formation i like. now into 2018, 2nd in prem to liverpool, who i also manage and use same tactics with, and in my 2nd season in c/l. so about 7 1/2 years on the same tactic... (cue it going wrong now ive mentioned it)

Smac
08-09-2008, 02:54
wardog,

If I have this right, the current thinking is that AI managers do not counter your tactic as you describe, but they do respond to your team's ranking. As your club becomes more successful managers will set up more defensively against you. This phenomenon has been dubbed 'reranking' and there are quite a few posts on it in the tactics forum.

wardog
08-09-2008, 03:01
do you have any links?

edit: dont worry i looked it up ill try going a bit more attackin, except for in Europe where i know where the problem lies anyway

Smac
08-09-2008, 03:05
No, sorry. 10characters

well-made
08-09-2008, 06:38
ok this isnt a rant or anything like tjhat alls im saying is currently i think you get about 2 seasons out of a good tactic before every AI manager clues up and counters it. I think SI should make this maybe 5 or 6 years but have the odd good manager counter it before hand. For example i remember Martin O'neil played the same tactic the whole time he was at Celtic and only had problems with it in 2 seasons where they lost the league on the final day of that particualar season, And when Peter Lovenkrands ripped Celtic apart with his pace,

So say different managers catch onto your tactic at different times allowing you time to get your tactic get it right and allow your players to settle into it.


Believe me that "Skippy Sunday" as it has become affectionately known had nothing to do with Motherwell countering O'Neil's usual tactic. It had more to do with the fact that his team that were more nervous and scared of going forward than I have ever seen a Celtic side at Fir Park.

In he first half the goal was abut the only chance they created. The Celtic defence were then sleeping when Scott McDonald lobbed the ball over his shoulder. In a normal game he wouldn't of got the run he was allowed for the 2nd goal.

This was a bad day at the office for the players more than any tactic. The nerves and the pressure getting to the players caused their downfall.

That's the way I look at it in FM as well, has a tactic failed becuse the AI has cracked it or has it failed because the players I have now playing it are older, slower or because it's just a couple of bad days at the office, before I start looking at the tactic itself. Eventually IRL somebody will find a way to counter a tactic and if one manager sees it working they may try a similiar set up themselves to see if they can emulate it.

wardog
08-09-2008, 11:49
i never said anything about a tactical counter on helicopter sunday. I said it worked well from him apart from that season and that won that they lost to an Arteta penalty and thats coming from a Rangers fan

carboreeta
08-09-2008, 12:13
AI tactic cracking is a myth, yes they will play differently against you as you become more succesful and any manager playing agianst someone who has doen well would ook for potential weaknesses in theri tactic which is easier to do if its the same one all the time, you dont need to change tactic but freshening up personel is good as is a few slider tweaks to alter the style a little during a game as it goes through if inital tactcs arent doing the business. generally this will be more clsoing down higher up the pitch and a lot wider and more creative to get through parked buses that counter attack

Nomis07
08-09-2008, 12:16
I've used the same 3 tactics on my career save, and i'm in 2024. No-one seems to have worked mine out yet.

wardog
08-09-2008, 12:19
Carboreeta i close down all the time no matter where and wehn

Neji
08-09-2008, 13:02
Used the same tactic for 10 seasons with my team. Never have any problems like this.

I did in 07 though.

postal postie
08-09-2008, 13:05
i've used to same tactic for about 8 years. to say tht the odd manager should get it eearlier sounds rather simplistic.
as is the notion that there is a set time limit before the other managers get clued up.
i certainly hope it isn't the case anyway.