PDA

View Full Version : Director of Football



great_save
08-09-2008, 01:09
Given the recent two managerial resignations were due to conflict between the board and managers over transfer policy, should future FM games involve a component whereby the board has a more active influence over transfer policy. I've noticed that directors of football play a more prominent role in the continental club, ie spain, italy and germany. Managers in those countries have the sole job of coaching and training the players, and they have a less active role in transfers and contracts. At the start of the season they give the director a list of player they would like to have come to the club and the director tries to get these players.

I think the game would be more realistic if such process was introduced, and especially when there a new boards taking over the club. In the cases of newcastle and west ham, the new board has placed their management structure and this has influenced the manager.

I know the game has incorporated components whereby an active club chairman has been involved in transfer dealings. But I think this idea of sports director goes beyond this function and changes the dynamics of the game.

wardog
08-09-2008, 01:44
yes it make it way more realistic but very very boring

Jaynm
08-09-2008, 01:48
It would do my nut in because I see it as a pointless job anyway.

toon army 06
08-09-2008, 02:36
Given the recent two managerial resignations were due to conflict between the board and managers over transfer policy, should future FM games involve a component whereby the board has a more active influence over transfer policy. I've noticed that directors of football play a more prominent role in the continental club, ie spain, italy and germany. Managers in those countries have the sole job of coaching and training the players, and they have a less active role in transfers and contracts. At the start of the season they give the director a list of player they would like to have come to the club and the director tries to get these players.

I think the game would be more realistic if such process was introduced, and especially when there a new boards taking over the club. In the cases of newcastle and west ham, the new board has placed their management structure and this has influenced the manager.

I know the game has incorporated components whereby an active club chairman has been involved in transfer dealings. But I think this idea of sports director goes beyond this function and changes the dynamics of the game.

the problem keegan had at newcastle was not the fact he had to work with a director of football but he did not get a say in who came in or left the club.

wardog
08-09-2008, 03:11
the problem keegan had at newcastle was not the fact he had to work with a director of football but he did not get a say in who came in or left the club.


hense why i would nolt want this in the game, id be resigning from every club that i had no say in who comes in or who goes out or for what price.

Ok maybe the finacial side of it i could cope with having no control over but any say at all would kill me.

Steve Burfoot
08-09-2008, 03:27
In a way, the directors of football is analogous to the GM (General Manager) position in North American sports, the GM sets the team's overall direction, the coach does his best to get the best results.
The only way I could see it being done is, if you take over a Management position at a club where there is a Director of Football, you can set an option to get "Complete control over Player Personnel" and the Director of Football gets fired, or you can try to live with it, and see how it goes with someone else pulling the personnel strings and you doing the best you can, however with transfers being one of the most important parts of the game, I can't see many people living with a Director of Football. However, that could be another good board Ultimatum after a season or two, "Its him or me!"

rinso
08-09-2008, 03:30
^^another good board ultimatum?? ya mean, another one to add to the list of ones that dont work already!?

aside from this, its been bashed about a few times recently on here, and i certainly wouldnt like it in. half the fun is buying and selling your own players. look how many threads there are about the chairman selling players without our consent, can you imagine what it'd be like on here if it went that way and there was a director of football in charge?? nobody would manage those clubs!

wardog
08-09-2008, 04:11
i say if you want that buy the game director of football, i think ally mcCoist on the cover, ill need to rummage it out to know for sure.

sanjin84
08-09-2008, 07:39
I say that if you manage some club in England then it stays same old, but if you manage something outside of England then it changes. Just like RLW.

Mike7077
08-09-2008, 08:20
I'm not sure there's too much support on this forum for the idea of chairmen or directors of football who interfere with transfer policy. I think the general feeling is that it pushes into the realms where fun is being sidelined in favour of realism. I can see that point, to be honest.

exes
08-09-2008, 10:46
fm is 50% watching matches,training and devloping,winning titles etc....and 50% selling and buying players so i dont mind putting an optional director of football just like the attribute masking and the 2D and the 3D option in fm09

Nomis07
08-09-2008, 10:54
The only problem I have with making things optional, is that every idea that splits the forum is "solved" by making a tick box and giving people the choice, if SI decided to go down that road we would have loads of people saying "what about this, it should have a tick box" and eventually we could end up with 10 pages of options when setting up a game.

trekman
08-09-2008, 12:22
Given the recent two managerial resignations were due to conflict between the board and managers over transfer policy, should future FM games involve a component whereby the board has a more active influence over transfer policy. I've noticed that directors of football play a more prominent role in the continental club, ie spain, italy and germany. Managers in those countries have the sole job of coaching and training the players, and they have a less active role in transfers and contracts. At the start of the season they give the director a list of player they would like to have come to the club and the director tries to get these players.

I think having a director of football that deals with transfers should only be introduced into the game if it only affects countries like the ones mentioned above where it happens on a regular basis. I don't think it would work in the British game tbh and you only have to look at the problems Keegan and Curbishly had with it to see that the problems it could cause.

hayta
08-09-2008, 12:26
these guys are important in real life but if they were as effective in the game then what good would we be?

in my opinion they would only force us to use the team's traditional tactics if it exists and suggest players lacking in our team according to those formations if he must. other than that, he may well shut up...

Nomis07
08-09-2008, 12:31
I don't like this argument "but it happens IRL", if we were to take that at face value there would be hundreds of additions to the game that would badically ruin it. In the name of realism training should be handled by coaches, contracts by the board, transfers by the board, finances by the board and ultimately as a football manager all we would be doing is creating shortlists, tactics and picking teams.

There has to be a point where realism is ignored in a bid to make FM a game.

El Zar
08-09-2008, 12:33
Given the recent two managerial resignations were due to conflict between the board and managers over transfer policy, should future FM games involve a component whereby the board has a more active influence over transfer policy. I've noticed that directors of football play a more prominent role in the continental club, ie spain, italy and germany. Managers in those countries have the sole job of coaching and training the players, and they have a less active role in transfers and contracts. At the start of the season they give the director a list of player they would like to have come to the club and the director tries to get these players.

I think the game would be more realistic if such process was introduced, and especially when there a new boards taking over the club. In the cases of newcastle and west ham, the new board has placed their management structure and this has influenced the manager.

I know the game has incorporated components whereby an active club chairman has been involved in transfer dealings. But I think this idea of sports director goes beyond this function and changes the dynamics of the game.

Great point. In Spain the manager/assistant manager deals solely with training and team selection - apart from GK coaching. Would this affect the players' in-game development as there isn't a specified coach for different roles?

The Director of Football role could easily be implemented in-game using the filters that currently used in 'Player Search'.
i.e The manger would ask for a small, nippy full-back (less than 1.80m, Acceleration/Pace 15-20, DL/R)

Neji
08-09-2008, 12:59
I don't like this argument "but it happens IRL", if we were to take that at face value there would be hundreds of additions to the game that would badically ruin it. In the name of realism training should be handled by coaches, contracts by the board, transfers by the board, finances by the board and ultimately as a football manager all we would be doing is creating shortlists, tactics and picking teams.

There has to be a point where realism is ignored in a bid to make FM a game.

I'm just going to quote this instead of making the same point again. I agree 100%. I find handling transfers one of the most fun things in the game.

jayahr
08-09-2008, 13:04
Fun over realism :thup:

Gauvner
08-09-2008, 13:08
There needs to be a point where Over-Zealous Reality and A FM Game balance.

Too much of either will ruin it.

Let the Devs stick with this one. In the end its a terrible idea having people going over your head with transfers etc.

Plus as said half the fun is doing your own transfers. If we took out the transfers and replaced them with these Micky Mouse Managers ( Directors of Football) Many people would complain a vast part of their game has gone.

Sir_Liam
08-09-2008, 13:16
I'm all for realism, but I see a DOF situation as going too far, even though this has been a common route in countries like Italy for as long as I can remember. It'd be intriguing to play this way initially and feel like Carlo Ancelotti getting Ronaldinho when you want some defenders, but it'd quickly get frustrating and would ruin a lot of the enjoyment of the game.

Nomis07
08-09-2008, 13:28
What would people think if they have a budget of £8m and think that should be enough for 2 players, but their DOF decides to spend £8m on a player they would only have spent £4m on? They would be left with one player and another position that needed filled, it's not worth thinking about the amount of threads that would be created.

nots
08-09-2008, 13:35
i think that having one of these would ruin some of the fun that is currently in the game. Yes it is fun to make tactics and stuff but the real fun is when you make your own team and bring them to the top. It would be kinda anoying having a squad full of players you dont want... even if it happens irl.

doc_
08-09-2008, 16:34
This is a tricky one, and it should't be seen as a yes/no question.

First of all, I play manager since the amiga years (the manager was my first; aaaah the blue player trying to lob the red keeper for him to push it away at the last second...) so i'm more than accostumed to buying and selling players, and the way the cm/fm series have always delt with it was and still is the best way. That is to say, until now.

One thing that has been discussed here I totally agree with: the english and continental manner of dealing with transfers are completely different, and it should be reflected accordingly. Not only that, but it should reflect the type of president/general director/football director way of working. And if you look closely, this is will make the game even more appealing.

Imagine this: you want to manage an english team and your undecided between aston villa and west ham, just because you like the claret and light blue kits. What do you do? You check out the players, the stadium, facilities, staff... and the type of president/general director/football director!

Besides, in the same way that you begin to ask for parent clubs and the board let you decide the type you want after a few years in the club, why not make it possible to do the same in the transfer department? The more you're a part of the club, the more freedom you'll get...

But not having liberty doesn't mean less fun.

You want to buy a left back. You go to the transfer list, and use it the same way as always; filter, interested players, left back, and the result is - let's imagine - 200. you approach a player the same way but, instead of giving money to the club, you just approach him, and you do the same to 20 more players. From then on, its up to the director; he negociates the transfer fee, contract, whatever and comes back with a message after a few days: "player x will sign for us, do you want him to?" or "5 players have signed for us, wich ones do you want?" or even after just one day "the director doesn't think you need a player for that position", wich could give a whole variety of news: questions by the jornalists, ultimatums to the board "it's him or me!", etc, etc, etc.

Then you have the continental way of managering.

Let's say your Reggiana. The president was fairly indifferent to your transfer policy (let's face it, you probably only brought in out of contract players...) and you managed to get the club on serie A in 2 years, so you start to receive good job offers. The president comes to you and says "my good man, your outstanding performance has given me no solution but to fire the football director and give you total liberty to decide everything related to transfers. The club is in your hands".

But then comes along Parma.

"We have been watching you and we think that you will be a great adition to our staff. You will have the power to choose who you want to send out of the club, but the general manager will make the shortlist of players to buy - or you can give a list of players you want to buy (let's say 10 per position) and in a few days the general manager will give you the answer".

So you start to wonder... Reggiana with total freedom or Parma with lesser one? In the meanwhile... Ancellotti is sacked and THEY WANT YOU!

"hello, my name is Silvio Berlusconi and I think you have a great future in the game and want you to be our new head coach. That said, because of your inexperience as a manager, we will control the financial and transfers section of the club. You will have a last say in some aspects of it, but only as an opinion."

So, total freedom in Reggiana, lesser in Parma or none in Milan?



Cheers.

P.S. - Sorry about the post... a little long I know.

Terry85
01-10-2008, 11:46
Just wondering if there were any plans to include this role. For example, Kevin Keegan took the Newcastle job with warning of Dennis Not-So-Wise being installed as a Director Of Football.

I feel it should be added into the game as it would make some job offers much more difficult and realistic. I'm thinking it would be hard to code but it would be great in the long run and in keeping with today's football transfer decisions etc.

Anyone agree?

Nomis07
01-10-2008, 11:51
I don't agree and you will find out my reason if you do a search for this topic, there a few threads that have come and gone in recent times dicussing this and there were some interesting discussions in them. :)

Terry85
01-10-2008, 11:59
What would people think if they have a budget of £8m and think that should be enough for 2 players, but their DOF decides to spend £8m on a player they would only have spent £4m on? They would be left with one player and another position that needed filled, it's not worth thinking about the amount of threads that would be created.

I think there would be another way of doing this...

Maybe the DOF hands the manager a list of players to buy, or the manager would submit a form IE. fast left back. Making the DOF submit a list of players he thinks fit the bill. Kind of like a more interactive scout.

Also, how many teams have these 'active' DOF?

Their level of involvement could be stated in the job offer. Therefore if you don't want one, just decline the offer from that club.

Surely one day they would retire and it would be upto the chairman to hire another or let the decisions reside in the current/future managers.

There are loads of possibilities with this and I for one think it would be a great addition.

simon07
01-10-2008, 12:05
For me a director of football is a role used in modern football.

It shoud therefore be in the game

realism = fun

Nomis07
01-10-2008, 12:48
For me a director of football is a role used in modern football.

It shoud therefore be in the game

realism = fun

I'll just quote the point I made further up the page;


I don't like this argument "but it happens IRL", if we were to take that at face value there would be hundreds of additions to the game that would badically ruin it. In the name of realism training should be handled by coaches, contracts by the board, transfers by the board, finances by the board and ultimately as a football manager all we would be doing is creating shortlists, tactics and picking teams.

There has to be a point where realism is ignored in a bid to make FM a game.

If realism = fun, you'll be happy with a game in which all you do is pick a starting 11 and the tactics that they play with?

ssestig
01-10-2008, 12:59
these guys are important in real life but if they were as effective in the game then what good would we be?

in my opinion they would only force us to use the team's traditional tactics if it exists and suggest players lacking in our team according to those formations if he must. other than that, he may well shut up...

what would the point of having a manager then?

simon07
01-10-2008, 13:11
Obviously u'd be aware that u are going to be managing in this system unless a Newcastle situation arises where suddenly u find ur not in charge of transfers at the club.

If you not happy working under this system u'd simply leave that club. When you are approached by a chairman it would be good if the chairman said either:

- expected to work with a DOF
- in complete control of transfers

Neb
01-10-2008, 13:13
The game isn't really developed enough to take advantage of a DOF. A coach working for a DOF doesn't have enough means to do his job. I could see that the tactics/training/motivation side of a coach could be entertaining, but only if the game allowed you to interact with your players with more than just a team talk!

I think being a DOF would be fun, hiring payers, general suggestions on tactics, hiring firing of staff, hiring firing of managers etc. that could be fun! or certainly a different challenge... I'd love to be able to fly through a season in an hour or two making strategic decisions.

The game has too much else that needs fixed/added before they should think about adding Director of Football.

Terry85
01-10-2008, 13:17
The game isn't really developed enough to take advantage of a DOF. A coach working for a DOF doesn't have enough means to do his job. I could see that the tactics/training/motivation side of a coach could be entertaining, but only if the game allowed you to interact with your players with more than just a team talk!

I think being a DOF would be fun, hiring payers, general suggestions on tactics, hiring firing of staff, hiring firing of managers etc. that could be fun! or certainly a different challenge... I'd love to be able to fly through a season in an hour or two making strategic decisions.

The game has too much else that needs fixed/added before they should think about adding Director of Football.

I think the option to BE a DOF is a bit silly. This game is Football MANAGER. :)

Nobby_McDonald
01-10-2008, 13:18
Directors of Football do seem to be rather cosmetic in FM at the moment. They don't seem to serve any purpose and it needs looking at.

glamdring
01-10-2008, 13:19
Obviously u'd be aware that u are going to be managing in this system unless a Newcastle situation arises where suddenly u find ur not in charge of transfers at the club.

If you not happy working under this system u'd simply leave that club. When you are approached by a chairman it would be good if the chairman said either:

- expected to work with a DOF
- in complete control of transfers

That just means that there are certain clubs you could never manage if you didn't want to work under such restrictions. You can say that is realistic, but since it's not realistic that I manage any team at all, even a freakin pub team then the realism argument has already sailed away long ago.

Realism is good up to the point where it starts to cause the game to be less fun. Real life managers do what they do as a job, they get paid to deal with all the stupid issues that come up and then they go home at the end of the day. Most of us do a 9-5 job (or whatever hours people work in other countries!) and like to play FM for fun and some kind of escapism from total real life. We don't get paid for it like a real manager does so throwing all the problems a real manager has to deal with at us is not a good thing in my book unless those wages I'm getting paid to be manager suddenly become real money!

simon07
01-10-2008, 14:42
Very diverse opioins on this....

Very good talking point!!

presumingpete
01-10-2008, 14:56
totally agree a DOF wouldnt be too welcome for me but what might be welcome is having someone in the back room like comolli at spurs but rather than choosing which players to buy he might give you suggestions for new players, kind of like a shortlist but without you having to act on it. i think it might be useful when it comes to bringing in new talent at the start of the season - maybe that might fall more under the role of a head scout tho...

themoffster
01-10-2008, 23:41
In the same way that as a manager, you are not able to haggle over sponsorship etc, you should not be in control of your transfers if the club has a director of football.
Personally, I don't like the whole haggling over players especially as it doesn't seem to work very well in the 08 transfers module.
Directors of football should be included as soon as possible - at the very most, perhaps a miniscult in game editor to sack the current one for the guys who play for 'fun' and are not bothered with realism.

Neji
02-10-2008, 00:34
for the guys who play for 'fun' and are not bothered with realism.

I play for fun but I enjoy the realism. There comes a point where you HAVE to draw the line, you can't go adding things in just because it happens IRL. If it adds nothing to the game, then there really is no point.

Taking away my power to deal with all my own transfers would spoil my enjoyment of the game totally as its the thing I love most about FM.

At the end of the day, all of us play for fun - NOT for realism.

Marcelo
02-10-2008, 01:09
There should be two options to choose from when you start a game: having total control over transfers (no matter the club, you always controls the transfers), or follow the club“s policies (total or limited control over transfers depending on the club). Should not be that hard to implement and should please all.

wardog
02-10-2008, 01:30
I would hate this.

Alan Abela-Wadge
02-10-2008, 08:25
how about you can become the DOF?..... now thats a totally new game!

Panpardus
02-10-2008, 08:51
I'd be happy with an option to enable DoF as I think it could be a great addition.

Many people will have different views on whats fun and what isn't. I'd love the challenge of having a DoF and having to be able to work with them, you could have different types as well.

For instance you could have a DoF that comes to you before the transfer periods and says what position are you looking to bolster, you could say your looking for a LB and DMC and a couple days later they come back with 3 options for the LB you give them who you think and they would try and sign the player, a day later you get the options for the DMC and same things happens. Or you give what positions you think you need and the DoF goes and signs a player.

You could also recommend a player to the DoF that you have a scouting report on and he would give you the yay or nay, etc etc.

A lot of possibilities open up and if you can disable at the flick of a switch I dont think it would be such a bad thing. The only problem I see in implentation of a DoF toggle is that it would affect a few things like press conferences and the confidence things so Im not sure how coding in such variables would work and how hard it would be to get right.

Having a press conference like Rafa did, and go, I dont know go ask the DoF, he was suppose to handle that etc etc could have some fun points

Terry85
02-10-2008, 11:50
Very good points Panpardus.

I think this would be a great benefit to FM. But the level of control is the issue and the opportunity to change it/for it to change depending on chairman stats and maybe your history in the transfer market (ie. Transfer confidence?)

It would be good to add ultimatums like Keegan did, 'Let me get who I want/Don't buy me crap players or I'm out o' 'ere"

P.S Keegan is a numpty. :)

ssestig
02-10-2008, 12:00
I'd be happy with an option to enable DoF as I think it could be a great addition.

Many people will have different views on whats fun and what isn't. I'd love the challenge of having a DoF and having to be able to work with them, you could have different types as well.

For instance you could have a DoF that comes to you before the transfer periods and says what position are you looking to bolster, you could say your looking for a LB and DMC and a couple days later they come back with 3 options for the LB you give them who you think and they would try and sign the player, a day later you get the options for the DMC and same things happens. Or you give what positions you think you need and the DoF goes and signs a player.

You could also recommend a player to the DoF that you have a scouting report on and he would give you the yay or nay, etc etc.

A lot of possibilities open up and if you can disable at the flick of a switch I dont think it would be such a bad thing. The only problem I see in implentation of a DoF toggle is that it would affect a few things like press conferences and the confidence things so Im not sure how coding in such variables would work and how hard it would be to get right.

Having a press conference like Rafa did, and go, I dont know go ask the DoF, he was suppose to handle that etc etc could have some fun points

that would still undermine my authority as manager but that wouldn't be too bad just as long as he buys someone from my manager shortlist.

PC-Bantam
17-12-2008, 19:05
i think it would be a good addition, but not at every club!!

i remember on 07 version possibly 06 when you were Chelsea bramovich would order the purchase of World Class players or he would buy them himself

it would be more realistic if you could have an ultimatum style thing on this.

i think it should be a definite addition for example Man City bidding for absolutely anybody is not in Mark Hughes doing so the Chairman etc.. are having their own say.

So adding a Director of Football would ad realism (jus so long as it doesnt happen all the time and at every club, eg ur not telling fergie what to do!) and add an extra dimension to the game with a more realistic relationship with the clubs board!! IMO

iamjerome
17-12-2008, 19:17
there are 2 big issues with this

1/ handling transfers is FUN
2/ if the DoF's intellect in transfer negotiation / choosing who to buy is as ******** as normal opposition AI managers then it will undoubtedly ruin the game

ottey_swe
17-12-2008, 22:09
The only problem I have with making things optional, is that every idea that splits the forum is "solved" by making a tick box and giving people the choice, if SI decided to go down that road we would have loads of people saying "what about this, it should have a tick box" and eventually we could end up with 10 pages of options when setting up a game.

haha, really hope youre joking. Stop being so conservative. Even if you dont want options because youre satisfied with how things are atm doesn't mean others are. Shouldn't they have a choice? and where is your ten pages? come on get a grip

JimmyIOCS
17-12-2008, 22:40
This definately needs to be added. FM has always been one of the manager games that has been centered on realism, so it has to evolve with the modern game. Leaving it out in the name of fun would sort of contradict what SI have always done.

I think the main reason FM is so popular is the realism. If I wanted to have a purely fun game that isn't based on a realistic world then I very much doubt FM would top my list.

mr_pimpnuts
18-12-2008, 00:14
As mentioned only some clubs have DOF type structures in place, so if you didn't like it and wanted complete control you'd pick another team to manage. It'd be quite realistic, some clubs would allow the managers a say, some would leave it to the DOF completely. Maybe it could be optional to take on the DOF role in clubs with those structures.

IN FM09 do boards/chairman ever buy players? I've seen them make you accept bids, but never seen them actively purchase a player.

Monty_9
18-12-2008, 00:28
i say if you want that buy the game director of football, i think ally mcCoist on the cover, ill need to rummage it out to know for sure.

quality....i had that game....if i member rightly had couple nice features...

wesleysonck
18-12-2008, 01:12
I have already found myself playing as a Director Of Football. Whilst on a long and satisfying career game I accepted a job at a club having spent a long and successful period with a lesser club, (I went from CSKA Moscow to Paris St Germain.) Made my summer signings, played the first couple of games but just couldn't get into it, so just went on holiday until January where I came back, made another load of signings and went back on holiday. Did that for a couple of seasons, had some minor success and got offered the AC Milan job. Accepted this and resumed the role of 'traditional' manager.

The game is as versatile as your imagination will let it be.

conshaldo_bonaldo
18-12-2008, 02:04
if it was ever introduced into the game i would have to say that the club would NEED to tell you while offering you a contract what the situation is. and make their 'promises' etc. and say what they will do and all that. if they dont live up to them its their fault blah blah. but you should be able to at least bargain with them and negotiate who deals with what and at what extent while considering a management contract (this would include at the start of the game disclaimer).

conshaldo_bonaldo
18-12-2008, 02:10
on another note, aside from the 'talks' you may have with the board about poilicies while you're at a club, id say it would be a decent compromise to maybe say its either you get rid of the director of football or you wont hire me, etc. like demanding your control of the club. depending how big you are, or how much they want you at least, they may say okay or, try to talk you round (possibly with the offer of buying a star on the top of your list of priorities)