Maintaining the balance of PPMs

I've seen that players can learn PPMs now, which I suppose is a good thing.

As long as not everyone can learn stepovers though. How is the balance of distribution of PPMs kept equal?

I saw Miles say that not everyone will be attuned to learning some PPMs - fair enough.

But what about how we implement them? Of course we will only want players to learn the good PPMs. Those that give direct benefit and little cost.

But what about the bad PPMs e.g. dives into tackles, winds up opposition etc?

In many cases we wouldn't want players to learn those things. Will they be eroded eventually?

Also, do AI clubs promote players to learn PPMs?

There really is a lot to consider and I wonder about long term PPM development overall in a career game.

Diving into tackles and winding up opponents are not things that a player can practice or try to develop though, they have more to do with player personality, wheras a player can practice step overs all day long. I would think the ones you mention will remain in the game and appear from time to time, rather than disappear, but we will have no influence on whether the player adopts those PPM's or not.

The second point is a good one though, considering the way the AI sometimes failed to take certain aspects of FM08 into account, it is worrying that they may not take account of PPM's and eventually we managers could end up with a team ful of step voer kings confronted by AI players who don't even know what a step over is. However, we're judging before the game is even released and finding fault where there may not be one.

Some players are just not adept at stepovers. They may be able to execute them, but they may not be able to execute them effectively or do them at the right time. I hope that we don't have loads of wingers in FM doing them. It would ruin the realism for me.

I hope so too, but again we're just speculating about possible bad points when we should probably be giving SI the benfit of the doubt for now.

I hope so too, but again we're just speculating about possible bad points when we should probably be giving SI the benfit of the doubt for now.

Perhaps, but its something to watch out for.

At the moment, there is a way for players to learn good PPMs. Players should still pick up bad PPMs.

Also, how about players who have a bad PPM - such as "dives into tackles".

Can this behaviour be reversed so that he becomes a player who "doesn't dive into tackles" ?

It would mean that PPMs would have to know about the opposite behaviour.

e.g. "running with ball down the left" could be an opposite of "running with ball down the right" (or perhaps both can co-exist for a player?).

Important to know is whether Tutoring is still in the game.

If I'm not mistaken that way players also adopt 'bad' ppm's.

I think it has a lot to do with player personality and hidden attributes for the "bad PPM's" though i.e. a player with 1 for controversy and 1 for aggression will not easily learn "winds up opposition", whereas a player with 20 in both will pick it up easily if tutored by someoe with a similar PPM. I don't see how we could request any player to train for it though.

Good PPM's such as step overs IMO should be available for all players to learn though, if I train my CB for 10 years to learn step overs I expect him to have improved in some way, and remember it says "tries step overs" not "is good at step overs".

remember it says "tries step overs" not "is good at step overs".

Important point, that's how all PPMs work. I'm really hoping this has been done correctly so its realistic enough. I don't want to tell me winger to learn a few PPMs that suddenly make him a much more effective player, it shouldn't easy to just change a players style of play.

Important point, that's how all PPMs work. I'm really hoping this has been done correctly so its realistic enough. I don't want to tell me winger to learn a few PPMs that suddenly make him a much more effective player, it shouldn't easy to just change a players style of play.

Yes, this feeds back into a players preferred style of play I've mentioned in other threads.

Some players, even if they have the technique to do it, may not want to fanny about doing stepovers.

This is one of the new features that I'm very excited about and was something I brought up a while ago. On FM08 I'm now in 2031 on my Gateshead game and there are hardly any PPM's left in the game. This is down to a combination of the difficulty of getting tutoring to be successful, especially when it comes to teaching PPM's, and the AI teams not making the most of tutoring.

At least this way if you find yourself in the same situation it is still possible to train players to have PPM's, and there's therefore little chance of them disappearing altogether.

As long as it works properly I think this will be an excellent feature.

This is one of the new features that I'm very excited about and was something I brought up a while ago. On FM08 I'm now in 2031 on my Gateshead game and there are hardly any PPM's left in the game. This is down to a combination of the difficulty of getting tutoring to be successful, especially when it comes to teaching PPM's, and the AI teams not making the most of tutoring.

At least this way if you find yourself in the same situation it is still possible to train players to have PPM's, and there's therefore little chance of them disappearing altogether.

As long as it works properly I think this will be an excellent feature.

I'm a naturally cautious person, and I just think we could end up with a plethora of players will excellent PPMs.

I mean is there a limit to how many PPMs a single player can learn throughout his career?

Does the amount of PPMs learned affect newgens and their number of pre-existing PPMS?

Important to know is whether Tutoring is still in the game.

If I'm not mistaken that way players also adopt 'bad' ppm's.

Yes, but why bother tutoring if a player can learn all the better PPMs for free - i.e. through extra training.

For every pro there ought to be a con. Thats what makes a game.

Perhaps those players who stay late for training to do these extra things do so at a small cost?

That would be something. Perhaps players putting in loads of extra hours and not getting near the first team may get more disillusioned.

I am saying this assuming that what Miles said about learning PPMs (in the youtube vid) was in addition to the regular hours that players put into training.

Surely if they can just be taught willy-nilly, then potantially every squad player could be overloaded with PPM's? I dont think its as simple as putting a limit on them either, becasue surely certain players could have/use more than other players.

Surely if they can just be taught willy-nilly, then potantially every squad player could be overloaded with PPM's? I dont think its as simple as putting a limit on them either, becasue surely certain players could have/use more than other players.

SI are full of intelligent people, so I am sure they would have thought of all this stuff, but my feeling that actually implementing it so that it is balanced and realistic would have been extremely difficult.

I honestly think thst using the PPM's won't be as simple as people think. I think, or hope, that it will be based on how good the players attributes are to start with, e.g. a youth player with balance, creativity, flair, and dribbling at 5 won't be able to learn stepovers as quick or easily as someone who has 16 for those attributes.

I also hope that the physical PPM's are all there is available, i.e. a player can't be taught how to 'get crowd going', but will eventually have it in his PPM if he does stepovers and generally wow's the fans, if you know what I mean.

My last hope for this feature is that there is a hidden difficulty rating for each PPM. Meaning that one PPM, mioght be easier to learn than another, i.e. plays short passes will be easier to learn than stepovers. This ties in with my first hope that the better the player is, the greater his chance of mastering the PPM, so it avoids League 2 being swamped with players that can dribble like a god.

Do remember that Player Preferred Moves does not mean that they are good at them. In FM08 we have players who prefer shooting from distance but have a long shot attribute of 2!

So a whole squad that has a PPM of 'loves step-overs' would not necessarily gain an unfair advantage over the AI. Especially with players who have a low decisions attribute I think it would be wise of a human manager NOT to train them in too many PPMs.

In short, I think it's a great feature and it would be up to the manager to use it sensibly.

Isn't PPM a disadvantage since it makes decision making biased? I don't want my players to execute their PPM when the right choice in that situation would be the exact opposite. i.e. CRonaldo doing a million stepovers when he should just pass the ball

I just want the PPM's to be in the game at all this time around.

In 2018 in N.Ireland there are no players, (or at least very very very very very few), with any PPM's at all.

Have no idea why.

If you run the English structure to 2018 there are loads.

SI should remove prefered moves from the game.

PPM's like shot from distance, try longrange pass, cut inside, mark tight, make forward run etc should be a tactical option.

Will a player try to curl a ball or place a shot ? - it depends on hes attributes technique, flair and decisions..

Will he wind up opponents and dive into tackles ? - it depends on hes aggression, temperament, sportsmanship and dirtyness..

We dont need the " player prefered moves " to make players unique, since attributes already do that.

Isn't PPM a disadvantage since it makes decision making biased? I don't want my players to execute their PPM when the right choice in that situation would be the exact opposite. i.e. CRonaldo doing a million stepovers when he should just pass the ball

Like you said it all comes down to decision making. Perhaps is best not to encourage something like tricks or step-overs to a player with poor decision making.

I'm sure it'll come down to something like flair as well. If a player doesn't have much flair then asking him to practice tricks and step-overs wouldn't do much good either. A player who doesn't have enough flair won't be very effectice when his tricks.

Now...if you ask a player to practice tricks and step-overs, will it help develop their creativity/flair/dribbling?

I'm sure it'll come down to something like flair as well. If a player doesn't have much flair then asking him to practice tricks and step-overs wouldn't do much good either. A player who doesn't have enough flair won't be very effectice when his tricks.

Dont think thats right. Isnt the flair stat just an indication of how often he will try tricks and unexpected moves? Having low flair doesn't mean he cant carry out tricks and step overs effectivley.

Flair = how often a player will try spectacular moves , tricks etc. A player with 20 technique but 10 flair will still be able to try tricks and step overs.. but he wont do it as much as one with 20 in flair.

SI should remove prefered moves from the game.

PPM's like shot from distance, try longrange pass, cut inside, mark tight, make forward run etc should be a tactical option.

Will a player try to curl a ball or place a shot ? - it depends on hes attributes technique, flair and decisions..

Will he wind up opponents and dive into tackles ? - it depends on hes aggression, temperament, sportsmanship and dirtyness..

We dont need the " player prefered moves " to make players unique, since attributes already do that.

I disagree.

As I mentioned in "PPM Strength", we need things that make a player unique.

IRL, some players shoot from long range all the time, even if they're not told to and they're rubbish at it.

Likewise, players like Joe Cole nearly always cut inside.

There's no attribute that covers "cutting inside", and if there was it would cover how good they were at doing it, not how often they do it.

If I took over Chelsea tomorrow and didn't tell Joe Cole to cut inside, he'd still do it whenever he played on the left.

I've already mentioned a lot of other stuff on this issue in PPM Strength, I'll find the link so anyone who's interested can see it.

More than anything else, I want to know if players will do this off their own back.

I see what people are talking about here, but I think until we see it in action it's pointless (and pretty pessimistic) to start discussing possible negatives!

But in real life a lot of this is done by players taking the decision to stay back themselves. And an inspirational player can have that affect on other younger players. I'd love to see that in FM.

Anyone from SI able to comment?

Here we go

Great idea:thup:. PPM strength is a natural progression.

Thanks Jimbo