Training attribute 'groups'

I have a gripe with the Set Pieces 'group' of training attributes. Crossing should not be there. The attribute it is most closely linked with is Passing, as it is essentially a long lofted pass from the wing. Also, it is not taken from a dead ball situation. Therefore I think it is clear that Crossing should go into the Attacking training group rather than the Set Pieces group.

Passing shouldn't be an attacking skill, either.

Training in general is a bit iffy, in my opinion.

I agree to that in principle, but if it's an evolution and not a revolution (wink wink) on training, simply moving Crossing would at least introduce more logic.

The 'groups' act like they were tacked on at the last minute.

The 'groups' act like they were tacked on at the last minute.

they probably were

I'd like a crossover between cm4 and fm training system. Plenty of training of training schemes but I'd also like to see how it affects individual attributes, alternatively I'd want the ability to train each attribute individually. I want my player to train direct free kicks but not corners (and in fact they have very little together).

Passing shouldn't be an attacking skill, either.

That's just bad naming. Passing and creativity (the ability to spot a pass) are the "attacking" skills in the game. That could easily have it's name changed to passing.

Does anyone have a list of which training group affects which attribute?

I have a gripe with the Set Pieces 'group' of training attributes. Crossing should not be there. The attribute it is most closely linked with is Passing, as it is essentially a long lofted pass from the wing. Also, it is not taken from a dead ball situation. Therefore I think it is clear that Crossing should go into the Attacking training group rather than the Set Pieces group.

Crossing imo should be cross categorized into Attacking and Set Pieces. (although, that would blow open a whole world of cross categorizing, and cause more harm than good eventually). You've got to look from a footballing perspective. What Is a "cross". Its when you play the ball from one side of the field to the other. So If there is a set piece on the right, and its played into the box, how is that not a cross? Its most certainly not concluded as a pass, as we know a pass is a short ball to a nearby team mate. Crossing could be described as an attacking or defending situation, as your left back could theoretically "cross" the ball to the right back no further than 3 yards away from your own goal line, yet you'd like to argue that thats an attacking piece of play?

I think the Crossing attribute has been put into the Set Pieces section for the very reason. The passing attribute teamed with things like vision, composure and technique would account for cross field passes (which we note as crosses, but the game sees otherwise). But, don't take the "Crossing" attribute solely as the attribute for a good crosser of the ball. Crossing would need to be teamed up with Passing and creativity to clearly distinguish a good crosser of the ball while not in a set piece situation, and for dead ball specialists, Free Kicks and Crossing, along with a few other key attributes must be taken into account.

So in theory, the Crossing attribute could be placed in either section, and arguably in the defensive section too, but Set Piece seems the most logical.

P.S - 8,000th post. Go me.

Does anyone have a list of which training group affects which attribute?

It's in the manual I think. You can also see in the game- go to a player's profile, then "Attributes" under training. It will give the sections an what they improve. Here's the list:

Strength: Strength, Stamina, Work Rate, Natural Fitness

Aerobic: Pace, Accel, Balance, Agility, Reflexes (GK), Jumping

Tactics: Anticipation, Decisions, Off the Ball, Positioning, Team Work.

Ball Control: Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Flair, Technique.

Defending: Concentration, Marking, Tackling

Attacking: Creativity, Passing.

Shooting: Finishing, Composure, Long Shots.

Set Pieces: Corners, Crossing, Penalties, Free Kicks, Long Throws.

That's just bad naming. Passing and creativity (the ability to spot a pass) are the "attacking" skills in the game. That could easily have it's name changed to passing.

On the other hand, since a lot of passes are simply to retain possession, surely it's a defensive skill?

I didn't read the training section of the manual for Football Manager 2007 and didn't bother training my defenders attacking skills - and watched their passing attributes plummet...

I don't think Crossing should be included within the set-piece training category either

Free Kicks, Corners, Penalties and Throw Ins are all dead balls where the ball is not in motion.

At its basic level a cross is a lateral/diagonal pass to a forward player from the wing in open play whilst the ball is in motion, or the player has made an unforced (not referee decision) pause with the ball.

It is almost identical to a Through Ball in its nature, the only difference being in that a through ball is played vertically up the pitch as apposed to across it.

Set Pieces arise because the teams have an opportunity to arrange themselves in a prearranged formation after the referee has stopped play and then signalled for play to resume, that's why they are called SET PIECES.

A cross is a pass, and as a pass it should be classed as an Attacking Group training catagory along with passing.

Ball Control: Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Flair, Technique.

Defending: Concentration, Marking, Tackling

I think that heading is in Defending group!

Heading is in ball control, and its not best used there.

I'd like a crossover between cm4 and fm training system. Plenty of training of training schemes but I'd also like to see how it affects individual attributes, alternatively I'd want the ability to train each attribute individually. I want my player to train direct free kicks but not corners (and in fact they have very little together).

yeah agree......should be implemented...

I think that heading is in Defending group!

It's definately in ball control. It's not a purely defensive skill, is it?

I know for sure, because I checked the in-game thing- go to a player's screen, training, then attributes, and you can see the catergories.

x42: like I said, I simply think it needs a name change, not "remove passing and creativity and have an empty catergory".

Strength: Strength, Stamina, Work Rate, Natural Fitness

Aerobic: Pace, Accel, Balance, Agility, Reflexes (GK), Jumping

This is actually a spot that's bugged me, too.

Pace, acceleration, balance, and jumping, are anaerobic items, and more closely linked to strength (leg strength, core stength) than aerobic training.

If we were going to do that "right", for the names, I'd want to see

Aerobic: Stamina, Work Rate, Natural Fitness

Strength: Strength, Pace, Accel, Balance, Jumping

I'm not sure where Agility and Reflexes(GK) belong, but I might even argue that reflexes aren't really trainable...

This is actually a spot that's bugged me, too.

Pace, acceleration, balance, and jumping, are anaerobic items, and more closely linked to strength (leg strength, core stength) than aerobic training.

If we were going to do that "right", for the names, I'd want to see

Aerobic: Stamina, Work Rate, Natural Fitness

Strength: Strength, Pace, Accel, Balance, Jumping

I'm not sure where Agility and Reflexes(GK) belong, but I might even argue that reflexes aren't really trainable...

Don't quite agree with "work rate" being here.

By my understanding, work rate is the players willingness to run everywhere, whereas natural fitness and/or stamina are the players ability to run everywhere, hence imo only stamina and natural fitness should be affected by aerobic training.

Work rate should develop naturally as with most mental stats.

This is actually a spot that's bugged me, too.

Pace, acceleration, balance, and jumping, are anaerobic items, and more closely linked to strength (leg strength, core stength) than aerobic training.

If we were going to do that "right", for the names, I'd want to see

Aerobic: Stamina, Work Rate, Natural Fitness

Strength: Strength, Pace, Accel, Balance, Jumping

I'm not sure where Agility and Reflexes(GK) belong, but I might even argue that reflexes aren't really trainable...

If it was me, I'd put balance and jumping in strength, but leave the others where they are. Regardless of "how they're taught", those form a catergory related to how strong a player is (sort of) and the others how fast or well he moves. It's better for training that way- you wouldn't want to force your defenders to do sprints and make your wingers do weight training, would you?

Crossing is definitely not a set piece, it's an attacking ability to accurately pick out a team mate in the penalty area. A cross-field ball in another area of the pitch is simply a long range pass and not a cross. However passing is not solely an offensive action so that category name is a bit iffy, but I would definitely stick crossing in there rather than set pieces. I also have a bit of an issue with heading being in 'ball control', I wouldn't call it control as such, more 'redirection'. But I suppose it doesn't really fit in any of the other categories, so in there it should stay...