Che Guevara - wtf?

I understand that SI need to somehow make a little sensation while announcing the announcement of FM 09, but, c'mon why to depict changes in the game are you using communist mass-murderer?!?!

I also know that in pop-culture he exist just like the "anarchy" sign - to be used by people who are too dumb to understand what it really means, but are nonetheless attracted by its (sign) popularity/connotations.

But please respect people, who now sth more than media-crap about Che for example.

Why wouldn't you use Josiph Stalin to describe player's total control of their clubs in the game, or sth like that?

Che is an icon, but he is also exotic - even if he killed many people, and with his friend Fidel made life of another millions of them just like hell, it was soooo far away that noone would give a ****.

Where's the Che image Pawel?

I haven't seen the offending article, but do totally agree with general ignorance surrounding Che Guevara.

Where's the Che image Pawel?

http://www.footballmanager.net/en/index.html

Thanks. Almost missed the whole announcement pre-announcement. Where's my beanie?

I understand that SI need to somehow make a little sensation while announcing the announcement of FM 09, but, c'mon why to depict changes in the game are you using communist mass-murderer?!?!

I also know that in pop-culture he exist just like the "anarchy" sign - to be used by people who are too dumb to understand what it really means, but are nonetheless attracted by its (sign) popularity/connotations.

But please respect people, who now sth more than media-crap about Che for example.

Why wouldn't you use Josiph Stalin to describe player's total control of their clubs in the game, or sth like that?

Che is an icon, but he is also exotic - even if he killed many people, and with his friend Fidel made life of another millions of them just like hell, it was soooo far away that noone would give a ****.

Exactemundo. I'm sure that SI has a reason for using his image, and that's fine, but I completely agree with you about his representation. He was a vile man.

Exactemundo. I'm sure that SI has a reason for using his image, and that's fine, but I completely agree with you about his representation. He was a vile man.

SI know what they are doing, comparing theimage of a great leader of a football club with a great leader in the class struggle. Seems fair enough to me.

Great leader ?

I understand that SI need to somehow make a little sensation while announcing the announcement of FM 09, but, c'mon why to depict changes in the game are you using communist mass-murderer?!?!

I also know that in pop-culture he exist just like the "anarchy" sign - to be used by people who are too dumb to understand what it really means, but are nonetheless attracted by its (sign) popularity/connotations.

But please respect people, who now sth more than media-crap about Che for example.

Why wouldn't you use Josiph Stalin to describe player's total control of their clubs in the game, or sth like that?

Che is an icon, but he is also exotic - even if he killed many people, and with his friend Fidel made life of another millions of them just like hell, it was soooo far away that noone would give a ****.

Sky TV, a multi million pound TV broadcaster used Stalin many years ago to offer their wares.

Personally, I think SI are using Che Guevara as a commentary on the state of this message board given the sensationlist people with angry personalities. However this is an afliction with many Internet boards and not just this one. (Not including you in this btw)

Does it really matter?

SI know what they are doing, comparing theimage of a great leader of a football club with a great leader in the class struggle. Seems fair enough to me.

Unfortunatly, depending on how you view such matters, Guevara also got shot and burried under an airstrip after an attempted revolution though.

SI know what they are doing, comparing theimage of a great leader of a football club with a great leader in the class struggle. Seems fair enough to me.

By today's standards he is nothing but a terrorist

Unfortunatly, depending on how you view such matters, Guevara also got shot and burried under an airstrip after an attempted revolution though.

Gives us news about FM10, also, it seems.

Is that an official Football Manager ad?

If it is, I'm greatly disappointed. As said already, Guevara was a communist murderer.

Obviously, from earlier escapades of SI, it is clear that they are politically correct cultural marxist. I don't quite get why they would want to be so "in your face" about their political leanings. Ironically, considering one of the propaganda screens that come up when firing up FM, Che was an outspoken racist.

I think you're overdoing it. I doubt this was SI advocating anything Guevara stood for. If anything, they were using the confused and conceited image we have of Guevara today as a marketing tool to make a point. Rather like some clothes designers seem to be doing.

yay for Che Guevara

He was a revolutionary besides all the other things, maybe that's the message.

If that's not the case it seems a very odd choice.

A very odd decision.

I think its just a lure, it makes you think 'WTF' so you click it to find out more...

hello they got a million more hits than usual

If I were to guess, I would imagine "revolutionary" was the term SI are trying to get at, which is something which can be factually applied to the man, love him or loath him.

Much of the reason that Che Guevara has become such a pop culture icon (and in particular that image) is because the photographer who took it was a die hard communist and does not charge royalties on the image as long as it's "furthering the revolution", which is liberally interpreted as gennerally getting said image seen by as many peope as possible. In fact (i think) the only time he (actually his estate carrying out his wishes) has taken isue with it being used in any context was when Bacardi used it in their advertising material - as Bacardi are a generally anti-cuban company who claim to be cuban for historical reasons (Havana Club actually use the real Bacardi distileries, in much the same way as Budvar use the real Budweiser breweries), I think they had a large payout for that. Other han that, the image is free to use, so companies can put it on posters, t-shirts or whatever (and make themselves a healthy capitalist profit) free of charge.

I'm not getting drawn into the argument (because I don't like arguments), but for the record I believe communism is the best system - but one whose name has, i fear, been forever tainted by what happened in Russia and China (I conceed it is a little easy to abuse if you let the wrong people get near the top), and that violent revolution - backed by popular support is the only method to achieve this goal (there are people with too much money and power to let it happen any other way - how much of the western media (the politicians and newsmen) is controlled by Rupert Murdoch, as an example). The vast majority of the improvement (over what went previously, not relative to different countries) for the lives of the majority of the population was down to Castro, not Guevara. And I agree that the vast majority of people with his poster on their wall do not understand the true meaning of what he stood for (and that he wouldn't be anywhere near as popular if they did).

Anyway. This is the last I will say on the matter, as I am already aware that almost everyone will disagree with me. I am not advocating communism for this country, as there is not the popular support, but if this country was communist and if there was the popular support, then I believe it would be a better place.

I imagine everyone who reads this will disagree with me, and I am fine with that.

Once again, I'm not trying to start an argument, but I havent vocalised these thoughts in quite a long time, and it feels quite good to get it off my cest.

Appologies for not being very football manager related (apart from the first line).

And now, I will say no more.

Right, let's get a few thing sorted here. This is nothing to do with SI using Che Guevara's image or not, but I take great exception to Pawel and Duccio's assertion that he was a "mass murderer". Really?

No, he wasn't. He was part of an uprising against a dictator (Fulgencio Batista) in Cuba, who had, as a matter of course, violently supressed all those who spoke out against him. Many of his opponents "disappeared". Castro and Guevara's revolution was aimed at driving through social change within Cuba. Batista was a dictator of the worst sort, in spite of massive public unrest and acts of civil disobedience. Castro attempted several times to overthrow Batista, and was jailed for his part in one such uprising in 1959. He was released and Batista's secret police were tasked with assassinating him.

Che Guevara based his life around attacking the identified social injustices and inequalities throughout Latin America. Yes, he killed many people, including those deserting as traitors. Bear in mind, he was a soldier. He did not kill civillians, women or children, unlike many of the regimes in Cuba (Batista) and Congo (Mobutu). He was not a mass murder, not any more than any of the soldiers returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan are.

Sorry for getting all down into facts folks, but lets not start dishing dirt on people and making things up because you think it makes you look cool to have a bit of an alternative point of view.

People are too easily offended these days, does it really matter?

I guess one could say that I'm sick and tired of seeing ignoramuses wearing their, ah so hip capitalist cultural marxists promoting communism, Che Guevara t-shirts.

Really, if this ad is not a political statement, SI should be more creative and original. They ought to begin to rehabilitate some other "murderer with a cause". I can think of a few... but of course it would not be kosher - in the end it boils down to some murderers being more equal than others.

I'm not getting drawn into the argument (because I don't like arguments), but for the record I believe communism is the best system - but one whose name has, i fear, been forever tainted by what happened in Russia and China (I conceed it is a little easy to abuse if you let the wrong people get near the top), and that violent revolution - backed by popular support is the only method to achieve this goal (there are people with too much money and power to let it happen any other way - how much of the western media (the politicians and newsmen) is controlled by Rupert Murdoch, as an example). The vast majority of the improvement (over what went previously, not relative to different countries) for the lives of the majority of the population was down to Castro, not Guevara. And I agree that the vast majority of people with his poster on their wall do not understand the true meaning of what he stood for (and that he wouldn't be anywhere near as popular if they did).

While I'm no friend of big-money capitalists, communism is the best system only if you believe in the saying "the more the merrier" in relation to body count. And its not like the general populace yerns for a communist revolution, but are hindered by the moneymen. Ridiculous.

It could have been worse if SI went with their original idea.

How could that be worse? It's made me slightly arroused TBH.

Right, let's get a few thing sorted here. This is nothing to do with SI using Che Guevara's image or not, but I take great exception to Pawel and Duccio's assertion that he was a "mass murderer". Really?

I never said Guevara was a mass murderer!

I thought the image was quite clever tbh and he is not a mass murderer he helped lead a country to have free education and high literacy rates for all and also provide one of the best health services in the world

Right, let's get a few thing sorted here. This is nothing to do with SI using Che Guevara's image or not, but I take great exception to Pawel and Duccio's assertion that he was a "mass murderer". Really?

No, he wasn't. He was part of an uprising against a dictator (Fulgencio Batista) in Cuba, who had, as a matter of course, violently supressed all those who spoke out against him. Many of his opponents "disappeared". Castro and Guevara's revolution was aimed at driving through social change within Cuba. Batista was a dictator of the worst sort, in spite of massive public unrest and acts of civil disobedience. Castro attempted several times to overthrow Batista, and was jailed for his part in one such uprising in 1959. He was released and Batista's secret police were tasked with assassinating him.

Che Guevara based his life around attacking the identified social injustices and inequalities throughout Latin America. Yes, he killed many people, including those deserting as traitors. Bear in mind, he was a soldier. He did not kill civillians, women or children, unlike many of the regimes in Cuba (Batista) and Congo (Mobutu). He was not a mass murder, not any more than any of the soldiers returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan are.

Sorry for getting all down into facts folks, but lets not start dishing dirt on people and making things up because you think it makes you look cool to have a bit of an alternative point of view.

100%

The simple fact is that Che is the ultimate representative of revolutionary ideas in popular minds (and the use of his image is totally irrespective of whether one agrees with his actions or not) in the exactly same way that Darwin is the ultimate representative of evolutionary ideas in popular minds (again totally irrespective of whether you are pro-evolutionary or a supporter of 'intelligent design').

The message is that the new Football Manager version represents a revolution in the series rather than an evolution. It is that simple!

If one chooses to feel offended is because one chooses to see the image in the only way that suits them! Live and let die, folks!

Apologies for misquoting you Duccio - I obviously meant to say "communist murderer"!

On another point to whoever made it, perhaps Che was racist. I have no idea, but I do now that he fought alongside people from a variety of ethnic backgrounds.

It could have been worse if SI went with their original idea.

Rofl good one

Some populaces yearn for Communism... ours doesnt because atm the economies working well and people arnt starving to death ( this is unlikely to happen anytime soon )

Also i though that picture of maggie was absolutely classic! Great job

It could have been worse if SI went with their original idea.

I almost fell off my chair!

Now that IS controversial!

Some populaces yearn for Communism... ours doesnt because atm the economies working well and people arnt starving to death ( this is unlikely to happen anytime soon )

The credit crunch has all of us counting our pennies while the banks are bailed out with our tax money!

It could have been worse if SI went with their original idea.

funny stuff

I agree 100% with Pawel!

People are too eager to see things in black and white these days. If only it were so simple to sum up a human's life in a paragraph of +/- bullet points.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Che was a meh character, he really is not very important but looks cool so we get to see his dead face everywhere. He did have as heavy a hand (if not heavier) as the man he was trying to get rid of but thats ok apparently because he was a 'socialist'. As for communism, yeh it works great...lets take a jaunt down to the gulags what, what.

SI were obviously going for the revolutionary thing, I hope FM 2009 is a revolution...I don't think it will be.

Long live.... Ernerst 'Che' Guervara de la Serna!

My photoshop skills arent brilliant but not bad work for 5 minutes

Excellent, but you forgot the price. 10p! (The abolishment scandal)

Nobody can complain then for what they're getting. (<- could also feature on the cover as the slogan for those perpetually moaning for the 'unplayability' of the game out of the box).

Yeah, I guess it is a Big Deal for those of you who have cast SI as the State (in your minds) and now like good socialists (ironic, that) expect it to provide an untainted front of unreality for you to consume while you enslave your soul to the opinions of others.

How's that for an anarchist critique?

Nice one Serpico !

It could have been worse if SI went with their original idea.

she has bumfluff on her chin:D

I'm not getting drawn into the argument (because I don't like arguments), but for the record I believe communism is the best system - but one whose name has, i fear, been forever tainted by what happened in Russia and China (I conceed it is a little easy to abuse if you let the wrong people get near the top), and that violent revolution - backed by popular support is the only method to achieve this goal (there are people with too much money and power to let it happen any other way - how much of the western media (the politicians and newsmen) is controlled by Rupert Murdoch, as an example). The vast majority of the improvement (over what went previously, not relative to different countries) for the lives of the majority of the population was down to Castro, not Guevara. And I agree that the vast majority of people with his poster on their wall do not understand the true meaning of what he stood for (and that he wouldn't be anywhere near as popular if they did).

There is no such thing as effective communism. Communist ideals conflict directly with human nature which is why it can never work. There is a reason why every communist regime that has ever existed can be associated with violence, restricted freedom of speech and violation of human rights.

I live in a country that was occupied and forced under a communist regime. People that have suffered through it feel offended when communism is used as an image that tries to refer to it as something romantic or indeed cool. Similarly it's wrong that people are advocating the regime as something that could be a positive thing, basing their opinion on what they've heard about Marxist ideals and ignoring the real life examples (or simply being ignorant about these). The ideals in the main might be appealing but there's little positive about an actual communist regime.

I have to crack up whenever I see someone wearing one of those Che Guevara t-shirts. What would the great communist revolutionary think of seeing his image marketed widely in a capitalist society?

Si is doing it like Blizzard now. :-)

Ernesto Guevara was a communist mass-murderer. That is a fact.

I'm just trying not being rude, but advertising a game with him is a sick idea.

It could have been worse if SI went with their original idea.

HAHA Thats immense

I couldnt resist tbh

The game for £25 deal or no deal?

Ernesto Guevara was a communist mass-murderer. That is a fact.

I'm just trying not being rude, but advertising a game with him is a sick idea.

The understanding of context, sarcasm and a sense of humour can extent life, better than black and white vision!