Who thinks the AI cheats?

I`m interested to know who thinks what. I have my own suspicions on the vast amount of times the AI scores 4 goals in 5 minutes from the 89th to the 94th minute to win 4-3.

Yes or no is good.

No - it just feels like it sometimes.

Through corners and crosses into the penalty box, they do.

I've yet to see getting this solved. And it [air_quote]somehow[/air_quote] happens right when you're at the top, nearly invincible. After games you lose that come with goals scored only by means of crosses and corners, your team is shaken and drawn down.

Once you're clear with being unable to make a title challenge, you build up your form again. This has happened more than 5-6 times to our games here with a friend which are independent from each other.

This debate has been up many times before and I think there was a poll on it recently but still my answer is: No.

Why would SI make a game where the AI cheats you out of things? Where's the sense in that? Said it before and I'll say it again: No, it doesn't cheat, it randomises things, anything can happen, just like the beautiful game IRL

The A.I uses the corner exploit frequently.

The A.I uses the corner exploit frequently.

I can't believe I heard this. Music to my ears.

I can't believe I heard this. Music to my ears.

Well they sort of do because they take corners differently each time. So some of the setups will eventually involve a centerback challenging the keeper, right?

Well they sort of do because they take corners differently each time. So some of the setups will eventually involve a centerback challenging the keeper, right?

Ok, I'll follow your logic here:

> They score too much from corners.

> That's because they use different setups each time.

> However since we can talk about a frequent occasion that leads to a goal, then there is something those scoring teams doing in common

> If it's about a centerback challenging keeper, why not using the same setup against them?

Here is my logic:

If AI would "have" to cheat at some point, being left hopeless about breaking down your tactic, why not use such exploit which would not raise much concern since it's a deadball situation where you can hardly follow anything ?

Well they sort of do because they take corners differently each time. So some of the setups will eventually involve a centerback challenging the keeper, right?

That is true but that does not mean it 'cheats'.

The A.I uses the corner exploit frequently.

I have only seen them do this occasionaly, like I said before, why would SI bother making a game and then programming it to cheat against the human players? It goes against all common sense for them to do this, they would make no money as no one would play games where the makers have cheated everyone,

TBH, I am started to become very cynical about people who say the AI cheats and it is starting to make me wonder why they play the game if they are so convinced they are getting gipped? That again makes no sense to me, would you carry on playing against a mate who cheated? I know I wouldn't

I have only seen them do this occasionaly, like I said before, why would SI bother making a game and then programming it to cheat against the human players? It goes against all common sense for them to do this, they would make no money as no one would play games where the makers have cheated everyone,

TBH, I am started to become very cynical about people who say the AI cheats and it is starting to make me wonder why they play the game if they are so convinced they are getting gipped? That again makes no sense to me, would you carry on playing against a mate who cheated? I know I wouldn't

Agreed.

I have only seen them do this occasionaly, like I said before, why would SI bother making a game and then programming it to cheat against the human players? It goes against all common sense for them to do this, they would make no money as no one would play games where the makers have cheated everyone,

TBH, I am started to become very cynical about people who say the AI cheats and it is starting to make me wonder why they play the game if they are so convinced they are getting gipped? That again makes no sense to me, would you carry on playing against a mate who cheated? I know I wouldn't

Who would play a game that you win matches like snacks ?

And why would SI admit that the match engine cheats, even it may be doing it ? Of course they'll say "oh come on, why would we do that ?". Would you admit cheating of your AI, while that cheat makes your game seem "harder" ? Win-win, not ?

Who would play a game that you win matches like snacks ?

And why would SI admit that the match engine cheats, even it may be doing it ? Of course they'll say "oh come on, why would we do that ?". Would you admit cheating of your AI, while that cheat makes your game seem "harder" ? Win-win, not ?

You've missed my point entirely, no self-respecting games manufacturer would so something like this, as whether they admitted it or not, news would get out that they are deliberately stitching people up and if this really was the case with FM, why are only a handful of people complaining about it? Most people just accept that they conceded a goal and work on their tactics and selection to try to ensure it doesn't happen again, to me, saying that the AI is cheating is just a cop-out way of saying "I keep losing, help me" and as I said before I am beginning to lose a little patience but I will continue to keep myself restrained as it won't solve any problems if I get narky with people

You've missed my point entirely, no self-respecting games manufacturer would so something like this, as whether they admitted it or not, news would get out that they are deliberately stitching people up and if this really was the case with FM, why are only a handful of people complaining about it? Most people just accept that they conceded a goal and work on their tactics and selection to try to ensure it doesn't happen again, to me, saying that the AI is cheating is just a cop-out way of saying "I keep losing, help me" and as I said before I am beginning to lose a little patience but I will continue to keep myself restrained as it won't solve any problems if I get narky with people

Um, actually you miss my point entirely as well.

Through corners and crosses into the penalty box, they do.

I've yet to see getting this solved. And it [air_quote]somehow[/air_quote] happens right when you're at the top, nearly invincible. After games you lose that come with goals scored only by means of crosses and corners, your team is shaken and drawn down.

Once you're clear with being unable to make a title challenge, you build up your form again. This has happened more than 5-6 times to our games here with a friend which are independent from each other

Many transfers came in and out. Different set of players tried each season. And with a team like Sporting Gijon, minus and diminishing balance and hardly any transfer budget available, all because of such corners and corners, absolutely nothing else, I dropped down from the top twice.

It happens and happens again. Whenever my team is flowing like Niagara, crosses and corners start coming on. I remember numerous matches where I only saw those deadball situations converted into goals, giving away the match, picking a draw if lucky enough, thanks to the determination level of my team.

And I have tried different tactics long enough in different games but this little "tweak" never ceased to happen.

I got a "Defensive Troubles" thread with no replies in this section where I had asked about what could be done.

Briefly my point is: My team's streak of wins always gets shattered by corner kicks suddenly turning into goals". And having tall defenders with quality heading/jumping abilities don't work at all.

its complete nonsense to say the AI cheats, because it doesnt. ok you lose a few games when they score from corners, so what? that mean any teams irl have worked out a "corner exploit" tactic because they score the only goal of the game from a set-piece? no. and theres plenty of people who have MASSIVE unbeaten records... a few of them going Gundo's challenge spring to mind, some of them have gone seasons without losing in their domestic league.

Ok, I'll follow your logic here:

> They score too much from corners.

> That's because they use different setups each time.

> However since we can talk about a frequent occasion that leads to a goal, then there is something those scoring teams doing in common

> If it's about a centerback challenging keeper, why not using the same setup against them?

Here is my logic:

If AI would "have" to cheat at some point, being left hopeless about breaking down your tactic, why not use such exploit which would not raise much concern since it's a deadball situation where you can hardly follow anything ?

I never claimed they score too much from corners so I don't know what your trying to prove with your "logic" (which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, by the way).

That is true but that does not mean it 'cheats'.

I never said it cheats! If it cheated, it would utilize the corner exploit at convenient points, not just at random. I have no problems with the rate of AI scoring on corners and I honestly don't care how they score on their corners. Let's just say that they utilize the corner exploit at the same rate as the user would if the corner settings were set to "random".

saying that the AI is cheating is just a cop-out way of saying "I keep losing, help me" and as I said before I am beginning to lose a little patience but I will continue to keep myself restrained as it won't solve any problems if I get narky with people

Especially getting narky with someone who mostly agrees with you

The AI's goal is to win matches, right? Sometimes they get it the tactics/teamtalk/selection right, sometimes they don't. So, if you lose a match you thought you should win, it just means the AI did a better job than you that day. Move on.

Briefly my point is: My team's streak of wins always gets shattered by corner kicks suddenly turning into goals". And having tall defenders with quality heading/jumping abilities don't work at all.

A team is gonna lose at some time and there is no guarantee that good defenders won't mess up or that the other team has figured how to beat your team at set pieces, happens all the time IRL

I never said it cheats! If it cheated, it would utilize the corner exploit at convenient points, not just at random. I have no problems with the rate of AI scoring on corners and I honestly don't care how they score on their corners. Let's just say that they utilize the corner exploit at the same rate as the user would if the corner settings were set to "random".

Scott1990, I was not saying you do. Looking back at my post, it probably suggests that I was. My point was what you have described here. So we are in agreement on that.

Especially getting narky with someone who mostly agrees with you

Seems I've managed to offend you somehow, sorry if it has, nothing I said was directed at you

The AI's goal is to win matches, right? Sometimes they get it the tactics/teamtalk/selection right, sometimes they don't. So, if you lose a match you thought you should win, it just means the AI did a better job than you that day. Move on.

Very well put, just what I've been tryin to get across in my crass and uneducated manner, nice one mate

A team is gonna lose at some time and there is no guarantee that good defenders won't mess up or that the other team has figured how to beat your team at set pieces, happens all the time IRL

If only I was talking about a few matches, lad.

FM has the best simulation ability, I know, that's why we are all playing and discussing about it like lifeless nerds. I admit everyone has their bad times. I've just made a point about some repeating pattern that shows up and comes into effect the same way through specific times of the season.

If only I was talking about a few matches, lad.

FM has the best simulation ability, I know, that's why we are all playing and discussing about it like lifeless nerds. I admit everyone has their bad times. I've just made a point about some repeating pattern that shows up and comes into effect the same way through specific times of the season.

I don't deny that it has happened that I am sailing through the league and am then cut down by a series of losses, but this happens IRL too, look at Arsenal, how many times have they bottled it now? In my experience of the game it comes down to players being jaded and other teams finding weaknesses, then cuz of this one game is lost, morale plummets and it makes things worse and you end up losing several on the trot, I still fail to see any evidence that the AI is cheating

look how many times Liverpool have conceded goals from corners in the past couple of seasons, well.. since Benitez took over really. its because they have trouble with the zonal marking system. its a well known fact that we dont defend em well, and teams look to exploit that fact. thtas whats happening in the game. simple.

And how do you counter it then?

Give me the lesson. Best listener around is here.

dont give away corners

dont give away corners

Thanks.

And your approach to how to win is "don't lose", right ?

Black Balls & Revelations.

if you want to know how best to counter it. look in tactics forum. thats what its there for, im sure there'll be plenty of threads.

if you want to know how best to counter it. look in tactics forum. thats what its there for, im sure there'll be plenty of threads.

Thanks, that answer was absolutely better.

Hey, wait. Is there really something called "corner exploit" spotted as described with the same-titled thread ?

The A.I uses the corner exploit constantly, the only users/teams that wont see it are teams using 'super-tactics' or teams full of super stars because they don't conceed MANY CORNERS. On average I conceed from every third corner, on average I score from one in 5, this is because I refuse to use the corner exploit.

Edit: the corner exploit involves using the individual corner settings to have one centre back (or good header) near post flick on and the other centre back challenge keeper (I'm fairly sure). people (users) have been known to get 20-50 goals a season for a centre back using this exploit alone. I don't use it or even know if thats exactly it but thats the idea.

they dont use it constantly, its simply because they leave the corner delivery on "mixed" so, therefore, a certain percentage of corners are delivered in the way where the exploint works.

And you still insist AI does not cheat. Come on.

If every team uses corner exploit only against me then I'll be conceding goals enough to shake my team off and it's not used anymore so as not to get it figured out that it's used constantly.

That's cheat and lovely that I was trying to find a solution so far. Thanks SI.

yes i still say it doesnt cheat. the ai uses a "random" configuration for its set pieces, and, through a fault in the match engine, it ends up scoring more than it should. it doesnt know the glitch is there, obviously, or it owuld be able to defend it better from us human managers.

rinso, how do you know what kind of config AI uses? Your own observations or something officially written around here or such ?

nothing official, just my own observations in the games i've played

Hrm, I see but, speaking of your terminology, that "glitch" has cost me 2 darn seasons getting stuck in the same league. That should be annoying enough for a FM fan, shouldn't it ?

yeah i appreciate its annoying, especially if its costing you that dearly...

And it's still costing. Lost the last match on two corner kicks converted into goals.

I can say some menu not showing up somewhere a "bug" but if something is giving you direct handicaps in a game, that's cheat -intended or unintended. I'm sparing money, time and mental effort into this.

if you're still losing games, it does suggest theres a wider tactical issue there as well, seeing as if they score from a corner you lose. you're not scoring enough goals yourself. now, im not suggesting you use the corner thing for yourself, but maybe try tweaking your tactics, so that, if they do score from a corner, its nto going to affect the result as much... stand by the suggestion of the tactics forum though!!

I've said this many times before: THE AI DOESN'T CHEAT - IT IS YOUR TACTICS!!

I don't concede many goals, because when the AI goes to 4-2-4 all out attack, I counter that sensibly (and no, not by going to all out defence - that would just invite them onto me). I drop another man into midfield, set my wingers to run it to the corner flag and hold it there, set the tempo to slow, etc. I rarely concede in the last 10 minutes thanks to this.

The AI doesn't cheat but it does feel like it does its all in the players head in my opinion no one likes to lose and when you do lose to silly things it makes you feel cheated.

The issue about saying the AI cheats, comes from the fact that you either lose unlikely games, or you concede late minute goals.

If we look at the Premiership results from this week:

Blackburn 1 - 1 Hull

Liverpool 2 - 1 Middlesbrough

Newcaslte 1 - 1 Bolton

Stoke 3 - 2 Aston Villa

Tottenham 1 - 2 Sunderland

West Brom 1 - 2 Everton

Fullham 1 - 0 Arsenal

Of these 7 results i'd say that 4 of them are unlikely results ( Hull,Stoke,Sunderland,Fullham). This is over half of the games. It happens because of a good choice of tactics by the team, and sometimes complacency from the opposition.

If we import this idea into FM, it would mean that every month or so, there should be a result ( for or against you) that is quite unexpected. You might get a bit angry when you lose to Fullham or Derby. But if your playing against Man Utd with Sunderland and you win, you don't complain. It goes both ways.

Now onto the issue of late goals.

In the premiership results there were 18 goals scored.

Of those goals scored 7 of the 18 came in the last 10 minutes of the game.

This is because when teams are a goal down late on in a game they throw all their players forward to try and salvage a point.

So if we use this idea in the FM world again, about once every 2/3 games there will be at least one late goal in your game. It might be for you, it might be for the AI.

Losing to freak results or late goals is going to happen from time to time, as it does in the real world. Think how angry Boro would have been yesterday when they conceded two goals in the last ten minutes to lose the game. Or Arsenal losing in a shock game to Fullham.

I think SI have done a good job in reflecting the real world in their AI.

Hope this helps convince some people that the AI doesn't cheat.

The AI doesn't cheat. Some of these "cheats" that get reported on the forums can happen to the you just as much as they can the AI.

As for the AI "exploiting" the corner cheat. Simply put. They're not. Having a big, tall and powerful centre back challenge the goalie is logical. It puts the goalie under pressure and is seen week in week IRL, thus, the AI will often replicate this as it makes sense. It just so happens that there is a bug here, causing the AI to unwittingly use it sometimes. The AI is programmed to act as realistically as possible. If it wasn't, then it would possibly use some bizarre formations like many users do, but it simply doesn't know how to.

I`m interested to know who thinks what. I have my own suspicions on the vast amount of times the AI scores 4 goals in 5 minutes from the 89th to the 94th minute to win 4-3.

Yes or no is good.

liverpool 2-1 sunderland, if you were sunderland on fm you'd think it'd cheated as two goals in 4 mins. fulham last season had some of the worst luck ever, if that had happened on fm it would seem unfair.

it really does happen irl

My point is how OFTEN it happens. Stuff like this, which is frankly b/s

and then again

Its not my teams concentration stats. It the AI coded to make these things happen un-realistically often. IT plays the "Injury time winner" "Two goals in two minutes" "Instant reply" cards far too often.

so how many times does it happen for YOUR team?? or dont you count them??

Why would SI make a game where the AI cheats you out of things? Where's the sense in that? Said it before and I'll say it again: No, it doesn't cheat, it randomises things, anything can happen, just like the beautiful game IRL

LOL, Konami made a game that cheats you out of things PES 08 any1?

Yes, I do count them. Its far less often that the AI gives itself.

Then like it or not, it's down to your tactics both offensively and defensively. Obviously, when trailing, the AI is going to try and get back in the game. You've got to do the same, and if it's not working, you've got to do something about to make it work. The AI does, so you have to as well.

If your conceding goals quickly after scoring, then perhaps it might be an idea to swith to a slightly more defensively minded tactic for a few minutes to prevent this happening. The AI is only doing what it can to win the game, and you have to respond to that.

No its really not.