Making FM more realistic - the number of bids

At the moment nearly all of us play the same way.

On day one we make 100 or so bids and hope a few come through.

The problem with this is that its unrealistic. Proper bids are not tabled so easily with clauses etc.

The good thing is that we do have a realitic feature in FM - the enquiry.

When a bid is made it is normally in the selling clubs interest to make that bid public.

If so, then all the other players you bid for should be made aware of it.

So, if you bid for 10 central defenders and all those bids are made public, then all other defenders should maybe wonder how much you want them to be a part of the first team.

In order to allay their fears, you may need to offer them a key role or more money etc.

More enquiries should be made and not so many bids. It makes FM play like Supermarket Sweep at the moment.

Thoughts?

Is that not just just down to the individual gamer? I always make enquiries before making a bid, unless the player is transfer listed and I would rarely bid for more than 2 players at a time. If you want to play it in a realistic way you can and if you want to go mad and place 1 million bids then you can do that too, it depends on the manager. I thinki the ability to make your own decision on how you approach it is realisitic rather than being forced to make enquiries etc, look at Roy Keane and his hunt for strikers atm, you would never catch Wenger or Ferguson doing that.

SI have always tried to make the game more realistic. This is another scenario where it could be made so.

SI have always tried to make the game more realistic. This is another scenario where it could be made so.

Maybe you are right. I feel transfer bids should be taken more seriously. Currently anyone can make unlimited amount of bids casually.

Instead, even initialing a bid should have more certain impact on players, clubs and the world at large.

But surely the most realistic thing would be for the individual manager to make up their own mind on how to move forward with their team, and decide on their own transfer policy. I see what you're saying and it is a good point, but I don't think forcing people to play the game a certain way would enhance realism and would just annoy a lot of gamers who find the transfer system the most enjoyable aspect of the game.

Essentially, if you want to play your game in a realistic manner then don't make 100 bids, it's the same as using FMM I don't like editing my players, but I don't see a problem with other people doing it if they want.

Speak for yourself with the way you play...

I personally find myself looking for players in 2 ways:

1) I'll identify I need a solid DC - I'll have a quick look on the transfer list to see if there are any gems, if not I'll start looking into players by value and scouting through the lists of players I know and don't know. I'll maybe make a couple of bids on players with good attributes or scout ratings and see how things progress.

2) I'll identify a player or 2 that I really want - I'm impressed with Udinese's Cristian Zapata, so I keep track of his performances, Udinese's performances, and try to unsettle him. I'll do everything I can to get the player for my budget. If that fails, I'll almost certainly have also been looking at another couple of options, so I'll be after them too.

I think that's part of the joy of FM - you can play as you like, to suit your own style.

But surely the most realistic thing would be for the individual manager to make up their own mind on how to move forward with their team, and decide on their own transfer policy. I see what you're saying and it is a good point, but I don't think forcing people to play the game a certain way would enhance realism and would just annoy a lot of gamers who find the transfer system the most enjoyable aspect of the game.

Essentially, if you want to play your game in a realistic manner then don't make 100 bids, it's the same as using FMM I don't like editing my players, but I don't see a problem with other people doing it if they want.

It doesn't force you to play the game a certain way.

It just treats your actions more realistically.

Speak for yourself with the way you play...

I did say nearly all...

I think that's part of the joy of FM - you can play as you like, to suit your own style.

SI has always stated that their mandate is to make the game more realistic.

I think by adding this extra element into the bidding process will make wheeling and dealing much more strategic and enhance the game.

If you only make a couple of bids, then you would hardly be affected anyway.

It doesn't force you to play the game a certain way.

It just treats your actions more realistically.

I'm slightly confused as to what you are suggesting then :confused: I thought you wanted there to be a limit on the number of bids you can make etc, or that you wanted the gamer to have to make enquiries before making a solid bid.

I'm slightly confused as to what you are suggesting then :confused: I thought you wanted there to be a limit on the number of bids you can make etc, or that you wanted the gamer to have to make enquiries before making a solid bid.

No artificial limits.

Just realistic repercussions.

Apologies then. What sort of repercussions?

Apologies then. What sort of repercussions?

The more bids that become public, the more other plyers you are bidding for in the same playing posiions will want more assurances about having the role they want in the team.

Some clubs may not make that information public - especially if they don't want to sell a player. They may at best say an unnamed club has made a bid.

But in most cases when a bid is made it becomes public knowledge.

From now on when a player comes to negotiate a contract. They should not only assess who is currently at your club and club reputation they could also consider other ongoing bids.

Enquiries are more private and should be made more use of as they are in real life.

A bid should be more of a public thing. Its a statement of intent to the other club, the player in question and even your own squad/board/fans.

Maybe along the lines of media as is sometimes directed at clubs that will never sign the player but just to give fans a lift, so the media will attack you for showing no real substance or something in the transfer market, also lots of bids may be more likely to make your current players feel undervalued damaging their morale, maybe?

i think there are plenty more bids made in real life football world then we are let on to. as much as they like to think they do, the media don't get ALL the info ALL the time.

i think there are plenty more bids made in real life football world then we are let on to. as much as they like to think they do, the media don't get ALL the info ALL the time.

Yes, but there is the risk that some or even many might.

Please, please, let's not ivolve the media in yet another aspect of the game!

Undoubtably there is some truth to the original assertion. Especially at the end of the January transfer window when I am desparate to sign say a new AMC and have been unsuccessful with my leisurely "one at a time" bids throughout the first 29 days of January I fire bids off in all directions for players I would like and then hope some come back positively and sift through those for the player I actually want to sign. Can't say I'm too fussed either way whether this is changed or not though.

The trouble is the ai dont want to sell for a reasonable amount, so you cant put 2 good bids in and see at least one of them accepted. You have to bid on 20 players and hope that one of them doesnt want 5 times the value for him.

Players already react enough to this and it wouldnt be made public unless either you are trying to unsettle him or the other team is trying to up the bid.

I hate this idea.

I would like the ability to outbid the opposition. For instance if there are few clubs chasing a player, it doesn't seem logical that club will accept all offers, but only the highest. It's also silly that even if the bid is private it can be seen what is being offered.

Clubs regularly accept bids of differing amounts if they are looking to sell a player. From what I heard AC Milan bid considerably less for Ronaldinho than Man City did, but Barcelona still accepted.

i think there are plenty more bids made in real life football world then we are let on to. as much as they like to think they do, the media don't get ALL the info ALL the time.

I think in real life there are many more "unofficial enquiries" and "sounding outs" than we will ever find out about, as well as offers made confidentially that get turned down and never come out in the press (or only as rumours).

I agree with the comments of the OP where bidding for several players in the same position could and should have an effect. its obviously up to the individual manager how he conducts his business, and i dont necessary think it applies necessarily to when you make 3 bids for players in the same position (because 1 might be to replace a current first XI player, one might be backup, and one might be youth), but if you bid for 10 strikers and they are all (say) better than your current first choice then this would certainly have an adverse effect on your ability to sign any one of them in real life and should therefore have an effect on FM. How exactly this could/should be done is another matter, but it is a point worth acknowledging i think.

A secondary point, although relevant to the above, could be explained using this example: You already have David Villa and Fernando Torres in your squad and have a reputation for only playing one striker up front. You make an offer for a quality (although probably lesser) striker which is accepted and you come to the contract offer. You tell him he will be a key player and offer the wages etc he wants and therefore he signs for you. In real life negotiations he might turn around and say "key player, really? But what about Torres and Villa..." and have genuine reservations about signing. You might have to convince him by saying we're switching to 4-4-2 and Torres will be on his way soon... I guess what i'm saying is that during the game FM players are likely to offer unrealistic squad status as part of contract negotiations just to be bring a player in. IRL you may or may not be able to convince him of your plans and agree personal terms. Maybe this is a level of sophistication and depth that FM cannot currently achieve and the net result could be a forum full of threads about players who wouldn't sign for you when they didn't believe that would be in your team even though you were planning to actually play them...

i hear exactly what the thread starter is saying

he probably thought about this because hes been reading the newspapers

basically in real life it takes a club weeks to make a bid whereas in fm we just do it casually

for example liverpool have only made 4 bids for gareth barry over something like 4 months

man u have only made like 1 or 2 bids for berbatov over about 2 months

chelsea have made about 2 bids for robinho over about a month or so

there needs to be some sort of negotiatiing between these bids by the clubs

until they decide to make a formal faxed bid,

anyway there needs to be something happening before they make these bids

(i already made a thread about negotiations a few days ago)

The trouble is the ai dont want to sell for a reasonable amount, so you cant put 2 good bids in and see at least one of them accepted. You have to bid on 20 players and hope that one of them doesnt want 5 times the value for him.

Players already react enough to this and it wouldnt be made public unless either you are trying to unsettle him or the other team is trying to up the bid.

I hate this idea.

And what if the transfer market were to be more reasonable?

The only problem I can see with this idea is that enquiries are practically useless.

How often do you actually get a response from one?

Almost every enquiry is answered

frequently with a No

sometimes with "we want 10x his current value upfront + extra's"

sometimes with a reasonable figure + extra's, or even no extra's at all!!

I would really like to see a more fluid & dynamic transfer system in the game, dunno if we'll ever get it tho.

As for realism, don't most players now have agents to do thier contract deals for them ?

The only problem I can see with this idea is that enquiries are practically useless.

How often do you actually get a response from one?

Yes, this is why enquiries need to be improved.

Going via a more formal route of enquiry should be the proper route of going to a club.

Putting in a bid which could become public knowledge could have some effects:

1. Seen as an underhand tactic by the seliing club

2. If it becomes public, Can be viewed by players of the buying club and so those players in that position could become more nervous or even more encouraged

3. Fans are more encouraged by the prospect of getting certain players, but if the player doesn't come, then the fans may become more deflated. Should only be a minimal effect but still an effect nonetheless.

4. Other players you are bidding for currently could become aware of the bids of those other players and have to take that into account when discussing terms and squad status

5. On a positive note, a selling club may be aware that you are not exclusively looking at just their player and perhaps may take that into account and not play so much hardball when selling

...and other effects.

If an enquiry is made:

1. it can mean that your board can block a bid internally and make you look like a fool or show internal in-fighting in the club

2. You can be reject/be accepted/negotiae privately. No one else in FM world may come to know. Leaks are possible though - perhaps rogue agents may leak this info?

3. Player in question may not be told of bid by selling club. However, most players know of incoming bids in real life as far as I know.

4. Enquiries can make more use of manager/club relationships. i.e. a club may be more forthcoming of info regarding their players availability/price if they have a good relationship with the buying club or its manager. It doesn't mean they will sell for a lesser price of course.

The more I think about this, I think it is the way forward.

i like the idea of a negative affect for bidding too much

it may be hard on us as managers but it needs to be realistic

because in real life more than 5 bids for a player is very rare

even over along time

how about only being able to make bids amounting to your transfer budget

And what if the transfer market were to be more reasonable?

It wouldnt be needed as you wouldnt need to made 10 or 20 bids on different players hoping to sign one of them. 2 or 3 bids would do the job.

It wouldnt be needed as you wouldnt need to made 10 or 20 bids on different players hoping to sign one of them. 2 or 3 bids would do the job.

Sorry, but I think you are misunderstanding me or, more probably, I am not making myself clear.

I AGREE with you. The transfer market needs to be more reasonable in terms of accepting offers etc.

What this proposal is is to go hand-in-hand with that. It can enhance a more realistic transfer market.

Sorry for bringing this thread back, but I feel this hasn't really been discussed properly.

At the moment I am still of the mind that making more use of enquiries are more realisitic and even improve the playing experience (especially multi-player where we have to wait on everyones negotiated bids).

Boards should be informed of how much you actually want the player and how much of a priority he is to your plans as well.

This could be part of making a formal bid. The board could then tell you up front if he is worth the money you need to spend on him.

They may even allow you to go for a player where you are short - positionally speaking. Whereas, for example, if you had a plethora of strikers, they may sayn you have too many of those types of players already. You may have to sell one or convince them you need them - e.g. by saying you are playing 4-2-4 or whatever.

The upshot of it is this. Enquiries should be the way to find out if a player is available and exactly how much the selling club would actually let him go for. It would be private. It could possibly become public though.

An actual bid needs to be arranged with your board. It also has a much bigger chance of becoming public knowledge with all the possible effects of that (discussed above).

The only problem I can see with this idea is that enquiries are practically useless.

How often do you actually get a response from one?

Exactly.

And even if you do get a response they change their mind as soon as you bid. And if you give them a fee, even a tenth of a pittance they NEVER respond with a bid and will enquire again tomorrow.

Ad nauseum. Enquiries are totally pointless.

However, if SI fix enquiries to be actually useful and if SI fix the transfer system to allow for sensible negotiation (not 10m please, ok here's 10, no we want 15, ok here's 15, haha now 20 + 50% etcetc) then I'd be all for making enquiries the main type of contact in transfer talk.

Of course those are 20 story ifs with wall-to-wall carpeting and a big neon sign saying "IF" ©Blackadder.

VB

The beauty is that it will give the game more subtley. You may want to make a public bid to unsettle a player or for other reasons.

You can still make the enquiry or bid, but the repurcussions will become more realistic.

I think it can still work with the current transfer system since it is a distinct piece of functionality, but I agree that it would work best with improved negotiation.

At the moment nearly all of us play the same way.

On day one we make 100 or so bids and hope a few come through.

The problem with this is that its unrealistic. Proper bids are not tabled so easily with clauses etc.

The good thing is that we do have a realitic feature in FM - the enquiry.

When a bid is made it is normally in the selling clubs interest to make that bid public.

If so, then all the other players you bid for should be made aware of it.

So, if you bid for 10 central defenders and all those bids are made public, then all other defenders should maybe wonder how much you want them to be a part of the first team.

In order to allay their fears, you may need to offer them a key role or more money etc.

More enquiries should be made and not so many bids. It makes FM play like Supermarket Sweep at the moment.

Thoughts?

If the enquiry function worked that would be a good idea. However in my experience, enquiries are only accepted and a fee given if the pllayer is transfer listed. In any other scenario i am told they are unavavilable for transfer, all seemingly independant from age, position, status at the club and value.

If the enquiry function worked that would be a good idea. However in my experience, enquiries are only accepted and a fee given if the pllayer is transfer listed. In any other scenario i am told they are unavavilable for transfer, all seemingly independant from age, position, status at the club and value.

This is why enquiries need to be enhanced in FM. They are sitting on a potentially important part of the game. Its underdeveloped and could make the game much more realistic.

I think it could even make FM a quicker game to play. Especially when it comes to multi-player.

This is why enquiries need to be enhanced in FM. They are sitting on a potentially important part of the game. Its underdeveloped and could make the game much more realistic.

I think it could even make FM a quicker game to play. Especially when it comes to multi-player.

I agree. It would definately improve the game, and help refine the transfer market a bit as well. Id love for them to work better in the opposite direction as well, when the AI enquire about one of your players.

Another reason why bids should be treated more realistically is that we have an advantage over AI teams with regard to the amount of bids we make i.e. more bids.

We are more likely to unsettle AI club players than our own becoming unsettled due to us being able to make so many more bids than the AI. It gives us an unfair advantage.

Theres making it realistic, and making it boring and crap.

Also, on the realistic note; you are looking at dots run around.

Guys, I take it most of you manage top clubs or smaller clubs in top divisions. The problem is that the transfer market works differently in the lower tiers IRL.

A semi-pro or an amateur club holds open trials, invite massive amounts of free agents to show their worth. If you manage a lower league club, you are often desperate for players and it's often bloody hard to even put a team together. Your subtle transfer system would make it very near impossible.

Guys, I take it most of you manage top clubs or smaller clubs in top divisions. The problem is that the transfer market works differently in the lower tiers IRL.

A semi-pro or an amateur club holds open trials, invite massive amounts of free agents to show their worth. If you manage a lower league club, you are often desperate for players and it's often bloody hard to even put a team together. Your subtle transfer system would make it very near impossible.

"subtle transfer system"

Yes, you are probably right. I am looking at it from a bigger club's point of view.

I think trials are definitely underused and needs a lot more development. However, at the moment in FM the way to get players is to make mass bids and hope a few of them come. Much more needs to be made of enquiries. I don't think that should have too much of a detrimental effect on smaller clubs as it stands at the moment in FM.

I'm glad of you pointing out life in the lower leagues. I think it can help develop this suggestion more.

Theres making it realistic, and making it boring and crap.

Also, on the realistic note; you are looking at dots run around.

Why would it make it so boring and crap exactly? Isn't it boring to make loads and loads of bids?

Personally, I scout about 25 players on one day, asking for a report card, not a match or anything with my best scouts. Then, based on their recoomendations, make a decision who to bid for

why the first year of each new game, the champions league groups can't be the same as there are actually ?!

why the first year of each new game, the champions league groups can't be the same as there are actually ?!

:0

A bit off topic?

I'd like to be able to bid for a rival teams defender and not be asked to pay about 55 mil over the asking price. This just happened to me with Micah Richards. They wouldn't budge either, I had to get someone else instead. Also, I agree with therubberducky, enquiries have never worked for me.

I'd like to be able to bid for a rival teams defender and not be asked to pay about 55 mil over the asking price. This just happened to me with Micah Richards. They wouldn't budge either, I had to get someone else instead. Also, I agree with therubberducky, enquiries have never worked for me.

Enquiries should be made to work and so you would have got that snub as a private message rather than it probably being public knowledge (if it did work that way).

Please note, that the transfer system being a bit skewed is one issue of its own can be reasonably well separated from this proposal..

how about only being able to make bids amounting to your transfer budget

This was in the old game and was found to be too restrictive. Especialy if negotitations are protracted (not to mention waiting for work permits having to be issued).

I think by modifying behaviour through more realistic means such as described above would be a much better solution overall. I am talking in terms of gameplay - where a manager can still make loads of bids, but will have to bear more potential consequence as a result.

Lets let Si sort out everything ELSE thats wrong with the transfer system and then go from there. Implementing this in the current transfer module would just **** erveryone off.

BTW I always make enquiries for players I want, often getting told to the player isn't for sale (fair enough).

Lets let Si sort out everything ELSE thats wrong with the transfer system and then go from there. Implementing this in the current transfer module would just **** erveryone off.

BTW I always make enquiries for players I want, often getting told to the player isn't for sale (fair enough).

But everyone's for sale if the offer is large enough. So often enquiries are not useful.

my one question is it doesn't ALWAYS happen IRL the way described ala Liverpool's 4 bids in 4 months.

Roy Keane appointed sunderland boss 28th August

4 days later we signed 6 players

so putting bids in left right and center is realistic sort of

my one question is it doesn't ALWAYS happen IRL the way described ala Liverpool's 4 bids in 4 months.

Roy Keane appointed sunderland boss 28th August

4 days later we signed 6 players

so putting bids in left right and center is realistic sort of

Of course. We pretty much all knew that Keane was looking for players and pretty much which ones throughout. Now imagine if he made proper bids for 100...