Suggestion: Negotiating

i think transfers and contract negotiating needs to feel more of a negotiation

than a message going from one club to the other

for instance when offering a contract to a player it shouldnt feel like a message from me to him

it should feel like hes sitting right there on the other side of the table

the same goes for bids for players

sometimes in real life the chief of transfers or the manager or whatever has a meeting with his opposite at the other club where they sit down and negotiate a transfer fee

does anybody understand what im getting at?

I get you totally, and this is something that I would like to see, although how exactly i haven't thought through lol

The negotations at the mo, do seem very distant, like it is all done via email, which I guess in a way it is, and I would definitely like to see something like meetings with a player/club and their representatives sort of thing

How do you propose that SI make it seem more personal?

How do you propose that SI make it seem more personal?

I don't know about the OP, but for me, maybe being taken to another screen, like where you offer the contract/make a bid, but make it seem as if you are actually at a table with the player/clubs reps and get some back and forth going there and then, rather than waiting days for a mail message saying they want 10mil more or whatever, some sort of actual negotiation type of thing

I know that's kinda vague but I ain't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer so I done me best

I understand the point being put across but struggle to see how you could make it so.

Basically, you want a sort of real-time negotiating kind of idea?

yea maybe you could be taking to another screen

where you are getting instant responses from the team or player

im not sure to be honest neji

How do you propose that SI make it seem more personal?

By actually having the ai negotiate.

They offer 5m, I ask for 8m, the offer 5m, I ask for 6.5m, they offer 5m and I tell them to sod off.

The other way round.

I offer 5m, they ask for 10m, I offer, 7.5m, they ask to 10m, I offer 10m, they ask for 15m.

Its ********, there is no negotiation.

If anyone has ever played "Theme Park" on the Amiga then they know how a negotiation should run in FM.

yea maybe you could be taking to another screen

where you are getting instant responses from the team or player

im not sure to be honest neji

But responses are not instant (albeit only in very rare cases). Negotiations are drawn out affairs...you send in a contract to the player and he will take at least a couple of days before agreeing to the deal. I think a better way is to add more options to the contract screen, like making him the highest earner at the club, promising a set number of games each season, squad status for the current season and also for the long term. for example if u have bought a new striker as a long term replacement for your current world class striker then an option to state that he will be the long term replacement for that striker and will not be a regular starter for the time being..etc etc

By actually having the ai negotiate.

They offer 5m, I ask for 8m, the offer 5m, I ask for 6.5m, they offer 5m and I tell them to sod off.

The other way round.

I offer 5m, they ask for 10m, I offer, 7.5m, they ask to 10m, I offer 10m, they ask for 15m.

Its ********, there is no negotiation.

Sorry if i am wrong..but i think thats what happens irl as well

Sorry if i am wrong..but i think thats what happens irl as well

The definition of negotiating is meeting somewhere in the middle to try and sort the deal out.

When a team would ask how much they want for a player, they are always going to ask for more than theyd accept on the initial enquiry. The same goes for houses, cars, players wages etc.

The definition of negotiating is meeting somewhere in the middle to try and sort the deal out.

When a team would ask how much they want for a player, they are always going to ask for more than theyd accept on the initial enquiry. The same goes for houses, cars, players wages etc.

Yeah, I agree as that is what real negotiations are about. There are occasions where clubs set an asking price and won't accept anything below it (Gareth Barry and Arshavin) but negotiations in FM are terrible.

I offer 30m for a player.

The other team asks for 50m.

I offer 40m.

The other team asks for 60m.

That does not makes sense.

When I want to buy a player I never negotiate as anytime they counter my bid and I offer even a little below it they ask for more than what they originally asked for.

Did anyone used to play premier manager on PS2??

Sounds like the same sort of thing your getting at.

For the benefit of those that didnt I will explain.

Whenever you wanted to transfer list a player you had to talk to his agent. And you had a variety of things to say.

E.G "No I want to keep him"

"He doesnt feature in my plans"

"I need the money" etc.

When you were attempting to sign a player, same concept.

You meet with the clubs chairman to discuss a fee.

If that was agreed, you went onto his agent to discuss personal terms.

After the medical you would even have the physio tell you whats good/bad fitness wise.

Same with everyone you employ (staff)

Interview.

Bank Manager.

Chairman, about training facilites. You could put your point across, about why you want better.

Would be a brilliant feature on FM.

sorry..had not fully seen the ai response

By actually having the ai negotiate.

They offer 5m, I ask for 8m, the offer 5m, I ask for 6.5m, they offer 5m and I tell them to sod off.

The other way round.

I offer 5m, they ask for 10m, I offer, 7.5m, they ask to 10m, I offer 10m, they ask for 15m.

Its ********, there is no negotiation.

I agree with your point but they aren't talking about that.

Reedy, that actually sounds pretty good. Would like to see something like that in FM. Seems more 'real' ie. not exactly done in real time but if done well, better than what we have now.

Did anyone used to play premier manager on PS2??

Sounds like the same sort of thing your getting at.

For the benefit of those that didnt I will explain.

Whenever you wanted to transfer list a player you had to talk to his agent. And you had a variety of things to say.

E.G "No I want to keep him"

"He doesnt feature in my plans"

"I need the money" etc.

When you were attempting to sign a player, same concept.

You meet with the clubs chairman to discuss a fee.

If that was agreed, you went onto his agent to discuss personal terms.

After the medical you would even have the physio tell you whats good/bad fitness wise.

Same with everyone you employ (staff)

Interview.

Bank Manager.

Chairman, about training facilites. You could put your point across, about why you want better.

Would be a brilliant feature on FM.

Perfect! That's the kind of point I was trying to make earlier, couldn't get my fat head around it though, that is what I would like to see, some more depth to negotiations, where things are actually sorta thrashed out rather than just a coupla messages saying "Yes" or "No"

Did anyone used to play premier manager on PS2??

Sounds like the same sort of thing your getting at.

For the benefit of those that didnt I will explain.

Whenever you wanted to transfer list a player you had to talk to his agent. And you had a variety of things to say.

E.G "No I want to keep him"

"He doesnt feature in my plans"

"I need the money" etc.

When you were attempting to sign a player, same concept.

You meet with the clubs chairman to discuss a fee.

If that was agreed, you went onto his agent to discuss personal terms.

After the medical you would even have the physio tell you whats good/bad fitness wise.

Same with everyone you employ (staff)

Interview.

Bank Manager.

Chairman, about training facilites. You could put your point across, about why you want better.

Would be a brilliant feature on FM.

I think I had that game

The one I played had Ronaldinho still at PSG and I always brought him to Liverpool for around 15M, really struggled to win the league though. Always took out the cups & europe, but ManU were impossible to beat in the league!!

Loved the little graphics (my office, meeting with agents, going into the physio, having scouts sit down at your desk to talk about they're reports).

Big thumbs up from me on this.

This is all a good idea, would be a nice new feature in the new game, although I suspect it will have to wait till fm10 as we probably missed the deadline if this was to be used!

I agree with your point but they aren't talking about that.

Reedy, that actually sounds pretty good. Would like to see something like that in FM. Seems more 'real' ie. not exactly done in real time but if done well, better than what we have now.

It sounds good but if they cant get the simple negotiations right, what chance have they of getting the complicated negotiations right?

Obviously this is too late for 09, fix the 09 negotiations as I said and maybe think about this for 10.

Do managers really sit at a table with a player and discuss terms? I don't think so, I think it's all done with agents and probably by telephone and then the more definate details i.e. the legal side of contract clauses are discussed round the table. Look at Kaboul and the Sunderland transfer, he was offered a contract and Keane hadn't heard anything back a week later. Salary and bonuses are probably discussed with the agent over the phone or in a quick meeting and then everything else is ironed out after that's been accepted.

i agree, transfers do need to become more personal and easier to negotiate. i think there should be far more automatic player interaction in the transfer section, especially when receiving a bid. for instance, if you receive a bid for a player, you should have the option of saying to the player:

1. i accepted, you're not wanted (therefore making him more likely to move)

2. i might accept, do you want to move (giving the player the choice, but potentially upsetting him as you don't value him)

3. i rejected, you're too important (pleasing sometimes, unless the bidding team is a huge club)

4. reject without telling the player (i'm sure this happens but can't be sure as if i knew so would the player obv)

when bidding for a player a similar set-up could be:

1. you will be the star of the team (maybe includes a min app clause?)

2. you are a prospect for the future, expect sub apps and league cup

3. you will strengthen my team, but won't feature all the time

4. you will start most matches, but your place is never guaranteed

i know this is fairly similar to squad status, but allows for more depth and a more personal approach. so many players join clubs due to the managers, eg kaboul, and this seems more realistic imo. this also has the benefit of becoming preferred / disliked personnel without the incredibly boring current player interaction screen

It sounds good but if they cant get the simple negotiations right, what chance have they of getting the complicated negotiations right?

Obviously this is too late for 09, fix the 09 negotiations as I said and maybe think about this for 10.

Yeah but if negotiations are fixed then this is a much easier addition. No new ideas will be added to 09 now anyway.

Perhaps it's just me, but I believe that it should be realistic enough when I see:

I want to sign a player

Existing functionality - Transfer fee.

I go see the club where the other player is contracted at. We need to determine for how much he can leave. So far, we have that in FM already, as it's called the 'Transfer Fee'.

Existing functionality - Interested?

Followed by a meeting with the player. If he's actually interested in joining my club. If he isn't, no use offering him a contract, right? You'd think.

Actually, this is already available in FM. If you offer a contract, depending on his role, he might decline your offer.

Existing functionality - Offer contract.

However, we can always leave one at his agent, who can persuade his player to do it anyway. The agent should know what's good for his client after all, or how easy he can earn loads of money. I even have gotten the player to sign for me after he declined my offer, already in FM 08.

If that was not meant to be, please introduce a "Offer to agent anyway" button ;-)

Existing functionality - Negotiating.

Next, I go see if we (the club) can contact the agent of the particular player. We then do some negotiating:

I offer a contract, the agent adjusts it, I adjust it, he adjusts it - until we both agree.

So far, this is flawed in FM08. But that aside, it's there. As for the real-time interaction, I don't think that's necessary, as it isn't done that way in the real world either. Not to mention that I think the game needs the "continue" button to start the AI before agreeing/rejecting.

However, it would be a lot better if there is also a maximum time of negotiating. There's no need to keep offering the same when the other party keeps asking the same. So eventually, we need this:

- I offer 5 million.

- I want 20.

- 20 is too much. I offer 6.5.

- Then, how about 15?

- I offer 10.

- No way, 15 is the lowest I go. Either that, or you're off looking for someone else (non-negiotable).

But I guess that's where the flawed negotiation comes into play, as it's currently buggy. Anyway, going on with the next step:

Existing functionality - Physical check-up.

Physical check-up. Currently, FM08 only tells you that the player either failed his medical, or doesn't say anything at all and you sign him.

Non-Existing functionality - Physical check-up feedback.

I believe a little message concerning the medical would add a lot to the realism here. It doesn't need to be any big, just a message like: "He needs match fitness since he's been a benchwarmer for 2 years, so I recommend to let him spend 2 weeks in training, followed by 2 games where he should substitute rather than playing him straight away. If you do play him for a full game, chances are he'll end up injured."

That would be a real physio advise. I believe the physio is pretty shallow in FM in the first place, as they only comment when a player has gotten injured. They should also monitor players as players drop by to see why they're out of breath, or why they feel a little pain in their back, which can be cured with a little bit of a massage or a pill. Recommendations of whether a player should be getting more/less fitness training would be nice as well, as a physio is the first person who spots potential injuries due to a lack or too much (fitness) training.

Existing functionality - Sign.

And after that, the signing of the player.

So, I don't think we need so much improvement here when it comes to negotiating with a player. The same thing kind of happens when the agent approaches us with an offer, of course.

I don't find negotiations half as bad as people make out.

If I want a player, and know there's a chance he'll be sold, I tend to offer 10% more than his value. They'll often come back with double that, before we move closer and closer, usually accepting around value+50% or so...

Sure it may be bugged at times, but more often than not it follows a logical course.

Did anyone used to play premier manager on PS2??

Sounds like the same sort of thing your getting at.

For the benefit of those that didnt I will explain.

Whenever you wanted to transfer list a player you had to talk to his agent. And you had a variety of things to say.

E.G "No I want to keep him"

"He doesnt feature in my plans"

"I need the money" etc.

When you were attempting to sign a player, same concept.

You meet with the clubs chairman to discuss a fee.

If that was agreed, you went onto his agent to discuss personal terms.

After the medical you would even have the physio tell you whats good/bad fitness wise.

Same with everyone you employ (staff)

Interview.

Bank Manager.

Chairman, about training facilites. You could put your point across, about why you want better.

Would be a brilliant feature on FM.

I would love it if the negotiations were like this in FM. Not sure about the staff part though because I think the players are more important to a manager. Maybe negotiating with staff is something that should be left to the board and not the manager. While its probably too late for FM (Unless they've already thought of it and its in:D) there is plenty time in implement it in one of the patches that will be available.

Do managers really sit at a table with a player and discuss terms? I don't think so, I think it's all done with agents and probably by telephone and then the more definate details i.e. the legal side of contract clauses are discussed round the table. Look at Kaboul and the Sunderland transfer, he was offered a contract and Keane hadn't heard anything back a week later. Salary and bonuses are probably discussed with the agent over the phone or in a quick meeting and then everything else is ironed out after that's been accepted.

whether done with the agent or over the phone

its still the same point im getting at

that it should be more personal and instant

over the phone you are getting an instant response.

If anyone has ever played "Theme Park" on the Amiga then they know how a negotiation should run in FM.

Haha... it's funny because I was going to open this thread and say exactly the same thing! Think is with that though the human player would always win!

"The negotiation will be short"

i've had a lot of good negoitations in my game.

i offer value of player. they ask for 10 mill more. i offer 2mill more than initial ofer, they ask for 1mill less than their valuation of the player.

after a back and forth negotiation we end up with my intiial offer plus a couple of million after 30 goals.

i remember reading an interview on the bbc website with a football agent or something last year, suggesting that transfer negotiations, tracking the player etc often takes about 6 months in total. and often very drawn out affairs, with small movements in the bids each way. The Gareth Barry deal has taken 4 months already with tiny movements each way in negotiation and still no where near completion.

i remember reading an interview on the bbc website with a football agent or something last year, suggesting that transfer negotiations, tracking the player etc often takes about 6 months in total. and often very drawn out affairs, with small movements in the bids each way. The Gareth Barry deal has taken 4 months already with tiny movements each way in negotiation and still no where near completion.

that would be represented in fm by the club putting in an offer. the other club refusing it. a few weeks later the buying club put ina nother offer. the other club refuse it.

if you want to do it that way then you can. i've done so when i think the sellig club is asking too much. man city wanted in total 70mill for micah richards in the second season. i refused and a week before the end of the transfer window i put inj another bid. they asked for 55mill this time. again i refuse and on the last day of the window they accept 34mill