Removal of arrows on the tactics screen

Until I started playing games in full match mode I never realised how powerful the mentality slider is.

As a result of this I have an issue with the f/barrows that you can get in the game.

IRL if someone plays left mid they are located in the usual left mid position - however, if they have to be attacking they will have an attacking mentality which will make them push further up the field. Just now in the game, the arrows negate the need for this mentality as the player, when your team has the ball, tries to get into the position where the arrowhead is.

These are both doing the same job, and I propose that the arrows be removed.

If you belive that they do not do this, I ask that you give me one instance IRL where the player would 'have an attacking/defensive arrow' as it were but have a different attacking/defensive mentality.

Using sarrows I would say is acceptable however, as you can't tell a player to play wider once you have the ball with the mentality slider.

I don't think they are necessarily the same thing.

I've got some attacking midfielders with a fairly "Attacking" mentality, but a barrow to the MC position for when we lose possession. When we have the ball, they're all about attack, but when we lose possession, I want them to fall back. It works a treat.

Likewise, I've got fullbacks who, in some formations, have a farrow to wingback, but a fairly neutral mentality. I want them to push up and provide a back-pass outlet when we have the ball .. but that doesn't mean I want them utterly gung-ho!

Regarding wingers - play around with "Forward Runs" for them. With a player simply in ML, no arrow, but Forward Runs Often and an Attacking Mentality, you'll see him get forward to AML often and even sometimes to FL. No need for a farrow, as you've divined!

But, if you set the same player to Forward Runs Rarely, Attacking mentality, you'll see him push up a bit, but still pretty clearly *behind* the location that an AML would be at .. and he'll only rarely make aggressive runs beyond that position. You could push him a bit further up the pitch with an arrow to AML - now he'd get up to somewhere between AML and FL, but he wouldn't be likely to push all the way up to that FL position.

Mentality affects decision making, not just positioning.

See Amaroq's post for all the examples of where an arrow allows you to have more control. I'll also add the dropping off striker to that list. If I use mentality alone I affect his decision making as well, making him less likely to look for the 'riskier' forward pass to advanced wingers or his strike partner. If I keep his mentality high and give him a barrow then I get the behaviour I want.

So if they want to do away with arrows in my opinion they need to separate the mentality slider so we have two sliders:-

1. One that affects position

2. One that affects decision making

If a striker constantly drops off, they are an AMC - the mentality of this AMC is attacking, but if that was a SC, they would be more defensive as they are dropping off.

The same with a midfileder with a barrow - if you ask them to drop off then they are being defensive.

The two things do the same job IRL - in the game you can get nice combinations and make your players sit in exactly the right area of the pitch with/without the ball, but the whole point of the game is to mirror real life therefore the arrows are unrealistic.

Read my post again. Mentality affects decision making and positioning. These are not real life people. The tactical settings we make determine their decisions.

Could a real life manager not tell a holding midfielder to look for the outlet pass to his rushing wingers or strikers? In FM if I lower a midfielders mentality then the lower I push it the less likely they are to make that pass.

Could a real life manager not tell a striker to drop off but look for outlets to his wingers and strike partner rather than laying it off to the MC behind him or FBs? In FM if I lower a striker's mentality to have him drop off his mentality will also make him less likely to make a riskier, more attacking pass. He will most likely knock it backwards or sideways.

A striker who drops off is not an AM C. When Ferguson puts Rooney up front what does Rooney do? He drops off and links the play. How do you get that behaviour in FM? Mentality or Barrows. But in FM mentality affects decision making.

Your arguments are based on positioning. Read my posts again and read the manual. Mentality affects decision making as well. Removing arrows restricts my ability to give perfectly legitimate instructions in terms of where I want my players to look for a pass.

Arrows are a completely realistic concept as was the wibble wobble. There needs to be an option to instruct your players to act differently when in possession as opposed to when they're not.

But you are getting your wish anyway, arrows will not be there anymore in FM09. I seriously hope that there will be another concept introduced to enable with/without the ball instructions but I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah I see your point now - two sliders would be better than one and arrows.

Arrows are a completely realistic concept as was the wibble wobble. There needs to be an option to instruct your players to act differently when in possession as opposed to when they're not.

But you are getting your wish anyway, arrows will not be there anymore in FM09. I seriously hope that there will be another concept introduced to enable with/without the ball instructions but I'm not holding my breath.

And you know this how...?

And you know this how...?

wwfan has said as much in a number of threads. Such as this.

I couldn't follow that link for some reason - can you post a "QUOTE" block in here with the relevant info?

Thanks,

Here you go:

I have never seen a manager play a formation that can do that in reality. So, already your tactical choices are challenging the parameters of the engine, which will automatically warp match statistics. Nothing against the creativity of the tactic, rather that it can't be used to determine engine design as SI intended the game to be played. Not your fault, rather theirs in that they didn't recognise the trouble such approaches might cause, such as crazy shot counts. Will be a thing of the past in FM09 as arrows have been removed from the engine.

Wow - great tidbit of news, thanks for the update!

themoffster gets his wish!

I do hope they bring the wibble/wobble back, I miss it rather (still)

Nice! .

IIRC, they're being removed for FM09 anyway, so you wont have a problem.