Biggest Al inbalance ever

out of all the games iv played this must be the worst ever. there are thing's on the tactics screen which dont work. Closing down. man marking, The Al have the advantage over us humans every attacking when they need to score.

Iv had a gut full of the al scoring 2 seconds after we score.. average players all play and score like Alan Shearer from 30 yards out.. Al attacking players are over rated,

the English premier is ment to be a hard league with thew scoring chances. this game just dreams up defensive errors to give the attackers a goal from nothing.. lookign threw the leagues and Real life tables. there are twice as many goal scored..

there just to many freaky attacking moments which is indefendable..

with so many people claiming the same thing. and all people say is. it's your tactics. iv had enough reading about that bollox, it's an inbalance favoured to attackign players, mainly of the al.. when was the last time you see a team win the premier ship scoring over 100 goals and letting in over 60.. that says it all

OMG!!!!!! The game doesn't cheat. The ai goes Gung Ho when they need to score. It IS your tactics.

get ready for a barage of attack from people defending the game

There are too many goals scored in the game but not just for AI teams also for user teams. Are you saying that the AI score 2 seconds after you score? Who are you playing as that does not usually happen to me? I managed to concede just 10 league goals in a season with Real Madrid and I am not great at FM. I do agree that, in general, there are too many high scoring games but the AI is not favoured.

exactly to many high scoring games. well see how good you are at managing gatafe or some one..

losing is fair enough, but all these 6-2 games. 4-4. and so fourth every other week. it's to unpredictable and not enough consitancy, i never said the al cheats, i said it's not tuned properly.

and liek i also state. tell me when the last team won the premier scoring over 100 goals.? cant say its every happend...

i beat Man u away 2-0 they are top of league. then i get trashed 6-2 by newcastle who are bottom with out a win after beeing 6-0 down, then lose 3-2 after beeing 2 -0 down, then draw 3-3 home to fulham, another team in the relegation, i score in 1st min. then they score 2 quick goals, and despite me havign a man sent off, i still manage to score a 3rd b4 they score again..

if i lose 1-0 or 2-1 so be it. but all these high scoring super attackign goals is just way over the top.. i sit here and watch my team play and it actually makes me feel sick with all the goals that keep flying past my goal.

it's easy to score 5 if you happy to let in 4 or 5. but thats just so unreal.. there isnt a balance...

when it's 0-0 and you need to score you cant hit a barn door to save your life, then the next game look out, it will be 5-4 after your either 4-0 up or 5-0 down..

I do agree with you that there are too many goals being scored and too many high scoring games but it does not favour the AI. How come all of your examples seem to be when you lose? You don't seem to be complaining when you win. I said there are too many goals in general i.e. usually 'AI versus AI'.

exactly to many high scoring games. well see how good you are at managing gatafe or some one..

losing is fair enough' date=' but all these 6-2 games. 4-4. and so fourth every other week. it's to unpredictable and not enough consitancy, i never said the al cheats, i said it's not tuned properly.

and liek i also state. tell me when the last team won the premier scoring over 100 goals.? cant say its every happend...

i beat Man u away 2-0 they are top of league. then i get trashed 6-2 by newcastle who are bottom with out a win after beeing 6-0 down, then lose 3-2 after being 2 -0 down, then draw 3-3 home to fulham, another team in the relegation, i score in 1st min. then they score 2 quick goals, and despite me havign a man sent off, i still manage to score a 3rd b4 they score again..

if i lose 1-0 or 2-1 so be it. but all these high scoring super attackign goals is just way over the top.. i sit here and watch my team play and it actually makes me feel sick with all the goals that keep flying past my goal.

it's easy to score 5 if you happy to let in 4 or 5. but thats just so unreal.. there isnt a balance...

when it's 0-0 and you need to score you cant hit a barn door to save your life, then the next game look out, it will be 5-4 after your either 4-0 up or 5-0 down..[/quote']

well i kinda agree with all this.

Once ive beaten AC Milan by 2-0, being my team the weakest not even favorite to pass to the next round of the CL. Them on the next match, im paying against the last placed team on my league and by half time... IM LOSING 3-0! And at the end of the game i lose 3-1, and there it is, my team goal.

The results 1-0, 3-2, 3-3, etc do happen very often really, but i hate those typical matches that everything happens like the 5 LAST! For example, my team for 5 matches in a row starts losing 1-0 and the final result is 3-2, i win, but it happens the same way. They score 1-0, them my team does an insta-draw, them its 2-1 for me them the IA makes it 2-2 and them i won on the second half by 3-2, and we are talking about weak teams against me. Ive changed tactics, different talks etc... the results didn't change for a while.

There are lots of goals comparing with the real leagues. 2-2, 3-3, 4-0, 5-0 ,6-2 etc. The problem is that they happen to often or else i wouldn't be posting this

iv won some high scoring games. i hold the record for most goals scored. conceeded. highest draws in both the prem and championship. it happens to Al teams to.

i will change my wording. ok it's not the Al. it's the programe that calculates such random events during the game. it's not working on a consistant level.

it changes moods more times than a fecking women.

i also stated teams winnign the prem scoring over 100 goals every season. it's never even been doen IRl. so it proves my point there are to many needless goals in the game..

id be happy to win 10 games 1-0 not 5-4.the only way it seems you can be a tru emaster is of you have a stupid looking formation that never even gets used in real life, and basicly beats the match engine. which to a certain extent is what the al does. and why there are so many needless goals... id doesnt matter if you had 5 John terry's at the back. a gung hoe stiker form the conferance can stick a hatrick past them away from hoem on a rainy say when morale is low. and the team hasnt scored for 5 games.

it's go tnothign to do with tactics. it's the programming..

if you flip a coin it's 50/50 what side it lands on. with the game it seems to have a 5 sided coin 4 of which is heads or somthing..

There is certainly is too many goals but I like to get my team (whatever team) as perfect as possible. That includes conceding as little goals as possible. I used a 4-4-2 formation with Real Madrid for 10 goals conceded. That was only a once off, though. In other games I sometimes concede loads of goals but it is possible to get a good defence with a simple formation.

iv won some high scoring games. i hold the record for most goals scored. conceeded. highest draws in both the prem and championship. it happens to Al teams to.

??? If you hold the record for the most goals scored' date=' conceded, and highest draws in both the Premiership and the Championship, that seems to argue very strongly that it [b']is[/b] your tactics - it sounds like you're playing a tactic that generates too many scoring chances for both teams.

I'm pretty content with my rate of scoring - my defense isn't as ironclad as it used to be in FM'05 and FM'07, but its still solid, and I pretty much have the 4-2-4 licked so I don't concede those frustrating late goals. My scoring is pretty average - with a top team, I might lead the league in goals but not by a large margin. With a relegation battler, I've wound up with a middle-of-the-road offense but the leakiest defense in the league, which has me bottom of the table. Deservedly.

The other thought is it could be related to your team-talks .. I don't often have mistakes that lead to goals, though every couple of games I get a "So-and-so is relieved his mistake didn't cost a goal."

You might consider heading over to Tactics and Training Tips and posting some specific complaints, and/or reading some of the top threads (wwfan's Tactical Theorems and Frameworks, and Wolfsong's Guide to Teamtalks come to mind).

Amarog, thing is mate i trust my own tactics, iv been involoved with football and football sims 25 years now, i do occasion read hints and tips but i find even trying to impliment these into my game ends up with a 4-0 defeat..

Im talking about my own problem at the moment, not what other Al teams suffer. considering where i am in the league with the bunch of players i have with a small team, i am doing well..

The problem is, and it's not down to tacics.. iv played 7 seasons with the same club now. and iv got a pritty good idea about my tactics and the Al's etc..

If i can go to old trafford turn them over 2-0 when they are top of the league with out a defeat and keep the likes of rooney and ronaldo quiet, then at least my players and tactics should just go and let in 12 goal sin 3 games because the game goes goal crazy, it isnt my tactics. it'h happening to Al teams to but like i said. im not worried about there records just my own.

Take Derby last year, YOu dont see some 3rd rate striker suddenly scoring hatricks and completely cutting threw the defence of teasm such as the top teams or any teams for that matter. My point is it keeps happening on the game. it goes goal crazy. before you make the changes in your tactic to stop it. yes you do manage to pull back from 4-0 down to get a 4-4 draw but it's all un beleivable. its not once in a blue moon. it's happening every game to at least 1 team in that weeks fixture's..

Gung hoe tacics are undefendable in this game wheather it's the al using them or us.. I honestly beleive somthing is over programed in certain areas.

the other thing iv noticed. use a tactic which gets you 60% of possesion and you lose. play a game with 45% tactic and you end up winning 3-0. and thats typical pattern iv noticed now too.

Amarog' date=' thing is mate i trust my own tactics, iv been involoved with football and football sims 25 years now, i do occasion read hints and tips but i find even trying to impliment these into my game ends up with a 4-0 defeat.[/quote']

People seem to forget it’s a computer Program so basically a series of instructions which means it doesn’t matter if you’ve had experience of football and football Sims for 25 years, Sims wise they have been getting more and more complex meaning more and more variables for you to tweak to get the outcome required, You need to looks closely at the tactics. Seriously I thought the same as you I then read up more on tactics in the TTF and I got my defence much tighter

Im talking about my own problem at the moment' date=' not what other Al teams suffer. considering where i am in the league with the bunch of players i have with a small team, i am doing well. .[/quote']

AI and human teams have no advantage over each other they are programmed the same only difference will be something along the lines of a toggle in game code that says player=0/1 with 1 being human and 0 being AI. The Ai are better coded to getting the tactics right.

The problem is' date=' and it's not down to tacics.. iv played 7 seasons with the same club now. and iv got a pritty good idea about my tactics and the Al's etc. .[/quote']

You keep saying its not your tactics but you have to keep changing you might have been at the same club for 7 years but how many of the AI managers have? Very few I bet each one plays a different way Tactics in FM08 have to change to counter each game.

If i can go to old trafford turn them over 2-0 when they are top of the league with out a defeat and keep the likes of rooney and ronaldo quiet' date=' then at least my players and tactics should just go and let in 12 goal sin 3 games because the game goes goal crazy, it isnt my tactics. it'h happening to Al teams to but like i said. im not worried about there records just my own. .[/quote']

Ok so taking your example into real life, you beat Man Utd 2-0 so you should be able to beat anyone? Bolton beat Man U last season 1-0 heir next game? A 1-1 draw with Aris Salonika, don’t you think teams take into account your las result and set up differently?

Take Derby last year' date=' YOu dont see some 3rd rate striker suddenly scoring hatricks and completely cutting threw the defence of teasm such as the top teams or any teams for that matter. My point is it keeps happening on the game. it goes goal crazy. before you make the changes in your tactic to stop it. yes you do manage to pull back from 4-0 down to get a 4-4 draw but it's all un beleivable. its not once in a blue moon. it's happening every game to at least 1 team in that weeks fixture's. .[/quote']

I agree the 3rd rate striker ripping apart defences is annoying, but if your waiting till your 4-0 down before changing something its your own fault you need to pick t up a lot sooner.

Gung hoe tacics are undefendable in this game wheather it's the al using them or us.. I honestly beleive somthing is over programed in certain areas. .

This is completely untrue' date=' ive (and im sure many others) had teams go Gung-ho on me but I have a shut-up shop style tactics and I keep the opposition at bay.

the other thing iv noticed. use a tactic which gets you 60% of possesion and you lose. play a game with 45% tactic and you end up winning 3-0. and thats typical pattern iv noticed now too.

Your team is trying to walk it into the net they need a bit more urgency it does happen a lot which is frustrating though

Genrally you REALLY need to lose the stubbornness of the its not my tactics crap mate, yes it’s a simulation in that its football but essentially it’s a game you need to adapt to the games AI in order to beat it

My tactics are definitely pretty naff because I refuse to go to the tactics forum to find all the unrealistic match-engine beating combinations of player and team instructions I need to plug the horrific holes that regularly appear in my defence. I give my players instructions that match up to the best of my knowledge (which is far from the best) with real life football instructions, but I know that successful in-game tactics often involve idiotically unrealistic instructions (e.g. wingers told not to run with the ball and to use no creative freedom, yet play Gung Ho, etc, etc). So I regularly get irritated at my team failing to defend, but apart from there clearly being some flaws with the match engine I just accept it's my tactics and live with it. I won the Bundesliga title once with Werder Bremen playing entirely my style so I have proved to myself that it can be done even if we lost the title by some 22 points the following season. Mebee I'll never win another title with any team I manage, playing the way I do, but such is life. Scunthorpe 6-4 Watford last night had me tearing my hair out at 4 idiotic goals conceded, but since we hit 6 at the other end I calmed down a little!

As far as too many goals is concerned, I've yet to see anyone present any evidence of this. Throwing out a few example scorelines doesn't count as evidence any more than throwing out scores like Tottenham 7-4 Reading (or whatever it was) from last season's real EPL and claiming it is evidence of goals galore in every EPL game.

Its not right, in reality, going all out attack will concede more than score, if all out was so effective then wed see it every week at real games.

The last 10 minutes does need to be toned down and the balance of attacking and defensive play needs to be adjusted.

I notice no difference in the goals concede between really defensive and really attacking, so you might as well attack and score more goals.

Fanboys will defend the game but this is wrong for sure.

I've also seen precious little difference when I go more defensive - it just means I am inviting the kamikaze AI team to attack me and score goals. I've sometimes had more luck countering the AIs late Gung Ho style by going all out attacking myself even if I'm holding onto a 1-0 lead. It worked for me at Fiorentina when we were holding AC Milan 1-1 late in the game and they went searching for an away win so we netted 3 in the last 5 minutes and said thank you very much for the 4-1 win!

Going defensive never works for me, and it seems that in FM the best form of defence is attack.

Throwing out a few example scorelines doesn't count as evidence any more than throwing out scores like Tottenham 7-4 Reading (or whatever it was) from last season's real EPL and claiming it is evidence of goals galore in every EPL game.

It was Pompey 7 Reading 4 and then Tottenham 6 Reading 4. That's what you call bad luck. Actually, it's what you call rubbish defending...

Amarog' date=' thing is mate i trust my own tactics, iv been involoved with football and football sims 25 years now, i do occasion read hints and tips but i find even trying to impliment these into my game ends up with a 4-0 defeat..[/quote']

Well that's your problem right there. Having the attitude that you obviously know best means you'll never get anywhere. The fact is plenty of people don't suffer from these issues. That alone means it must be down to something you're doing or not doing. Until you accept that you'll never improve and realise what the real problem in the game is - anyone can make a successful tactic that gats them victories and stops the AI scoring whenever they feel like, it's just a little too difficult for most people the identify where their tactic is going wrong and fix it.

As always I agree with chopper99. I spent the guts of 3 months devising a tactic every night of the week, and being extremely frustrated until I actually cracked it, and now I don't have any tactical problems that occur every game. FM takes dedication and patience, just firing out a tactic and expecting it to win because you won on FM07 isn't good enough.

The one problem I have with FM tactics, is that I really struggle to create a tactic of football the way I like to see football played, I end up creating a tactic to win. Glamdring did it with Werder so it is possible, but I always give up in the end.

As far as changing tactics iv ran out of idea's iv tried almost every thing to be more consistant and as soon as you think you solve it. bang the next game 4 goals fly past your your keeper b4 you even touch the ball.

if this is a football game that resembles football from real life. then tactical instructions should at least mirror real life. like other people have said. they have to adopt tactics that in real life simply wouldnt work or be used.

Every scout report says. the opposing team lies to play possesion football and hit on the counter. you may want to use a DMC to help out the defence etc iv played 5 at the back and had 2 DMC's and still my players cant even get close to the opposing players even on man marking or Tight marking. tacics do not do what they say on the tin simple as..

it's a football game i expect it to resemble somthing in football tactical wise

Well that's your problem right there. Having the attitude that you obviously know best means you'll never get anywhere. The fact is plenty of people don't suffer from these issues. That alone means it must be down to something you're doing or not doing. Until you accept that you'll never improve and realise what the real problem in the game is - anyone can make a successful tactic that gats them victories and stops the AI scoring whenever they feel like, it's just a little too difficult for most people the identify where their tactic is going wrong and fix it.

If i thought my tactics where spot on i wouldnt ever make changes, iv read tones and tones of articles on tactics and they resemble what i have in my own mind, there are certain games where tactics go out the window. it's as if before a ball is even kicked you have to accept your going to lose heavily. iv tried implemanting things iv read and it's not worked. iv tried changing my tactics for every team i play against because of what the scout says..

but your right in the sence i dont know why my tactics isnt working. at the moment i feel like it's down to luck if i win or score a goal..

im all out of ideas. if i have to down laod some one elses tactic and use that to win then for me, there isnt no fun in playing the game. what have i achieved aprt from cheating with soem one else's super tactic

like other people have said. they have to adopt tactics that in real life simply wouldnt work or be used.

I've said this myself, but I actually think that has more to do with us managers rather than the game. Glamdring is proof that it can work so that says to me that i'm just useless

Yeah, but I have to add that that same Bremen side (with the usual additions that a manager makes to "strengthen" the team - and ok one of those was a major disaster) who won the title playing football exactly the way I wanted it to be played were pretty crap the season after and were floundering around in 7th place briefly around Easter in "defence" of their title before scrambling back to finish 2nd, something like 22 points adrift. So I am beginning to think my one season of success with my tactic was a one-off with a lot of luck rather than a blue print that I can repeat

in all honesty i dotn expect to win the league with Ipswich. if i do. it will be because the game has aged so far Al teams are depleated so they are easy to beat,

if i play defensive i score less and let in less, if i play attacking i score more but let more in. for every goal i score i let 1 in.

2 seasons in a row iv finished 10th scoring 65 letting in 65. the next season i finished 11th scoring 55 letting in 55. an i ended up with the same point wins loses and draws funny enough.

as far as tactics go tho. even if they are wrong, it doesnt mean that soem super striker at 5 ft with 5 for jumping and heading should power a header past you 6 ft CB who has 15 for jumping and heading etc..

as far as tactics go tho. even if they are wrong' date=' it doesnt mean that soem super striker at 5 ft with 5 for jumping and heading should power a header past you 6 ft CB who has 15 for jumping and heading etc..[/quote']

Why not? Are you telling me that Rio Ferdinand has never been beaten to a header by a smaller player with poor heading ability? Yes it's irritating, but we have to remember there are so many variables to take into account before we balst the game e.g. starting position, determination etc.

I don't agree with the assertion that one has to "adopt tactics that in real life simply wouldnt work or be used" to have success in the game.

I feel like I've got a pretty reasonable 4-4-2, with instructions set that I could imagine a real manager giving to a real player in that position - e.g., no "corner cheat", no "gung-ho winger who doesn't run with the ball", just a reasonable set of instructions for a reasonable set of players. If you frequent T&TT, I'm somewhere between wwfan's approach and the "Slider Apathy" approach.

I think chopper and Nomis have hit the nail on the head here: the problem isn't that its impossible to have success .. its that the game allows even an experienced simmer like Wayne'o to experience highly frustrating levels of failure without providing even a glimmer of a hint of what's going wrong.

Wayne'o, the hints I'd offer for getting out of the boat you're in are:

1. Back out of any "extreme" technical settings you've gone to - for example, if you've decided that, I dunno, "Closing Down Maximum" is the right setting, and have left that set for a while whilst tweaking other things, you've set up a situation where you can't judge the engine, all you can judge is the "Closing Down Maximum" setting .. and maybe you can't find a solid tactic because the "Closing Down Maximum" setting interferes with the other tactical settings. I'm not saying C.D. is the culprit - I'm saying extremism is a culprit I've noticed when my tactics have gone wrong in the past.

2. If you're getting the "Some matches it feels like the engine has decided I'm going to lose, even though nothing else is different" .. start interpreting that as "Some matches, I've gotten my team talk completely wrong." Then start paying close attention to those matches, and to the specific talk before you noticed the poor play from your team - it may be that you're always heaping pressure on a group of players who don't respond well to it .. or vice versa .. and for god's sake, if you're letting your A.M. handle team talks, take that responsibility back from him. You'll do better yourself! (In the long run - after some initial frustration to be sure.)

3. If you're still in the school that believes in having one single tactic for all situations, break that habit. The game has gotten complex enough that you need to develop several. I'd recommend a short-passing patient version of your formation, a direct-passing counter-attack version of your formation, and a 4-2-4-killer defensive version of your formation, as a bare minimum. Obviously don't bin the tactic that got you a 2-0 win at Old Trafford, but .. keep that as one option in a series. Most of my teams have between four and seven tactics set up for them, depending on how formation-flexible I find the player mix to be.

You might generalize those three pieces of advice to "Find a spot where you're assuming that you're doing everything right ... because its that assumption that is blinding you to what you're doing wrong."

. .

I'm honestly, in my game, not seeing what you're seeing, especially when you describe going down 0-4 before you have a chance to respond, and then battling back to a 4-4 draw.

Here's my fixture list from the past season, all matches included:

A 2-2
H 2-0
H 2-2
A 1-0
H 4-0 * (Cup v LL)
H 3-1
A 2-0
A 2-4
H 1-2
A 2-3
A 4-2
A 1-0
H 2-3
H 1-1
H 1-0
A 1-3
H 3-0
A 1-3
H 3-2
A 2-4
H 1-1
H 4-1
H 3-0
A 1-1
A 1-1
H 3-2
H 1-0
A 1-2
H 2-0
H 3-1

The pair of two-to-four defeats were away to top teams, where, both times, I chased the game while trailing and conceded more than I normally would. They didn't feel like inexplicable defeats to me - I abandoned my usual philosophy against a better team, and paid the price. I haven't kept as many clean sheets as I'd like - I prefer a nil-nil draw to a two-four defeat - but overall that's felt about right to me. I'm no world-beater: we're 7th in the table, with a team that I wasn't expecting was quite ready to challenge for a European placing and will probably falter in the final stretch.

Why not? Are you telling me that Rio Ferdinand has never been beaten to a header by a smaller player with poor heading ability? Yes it's irritating, but we have to remember there are so many variables to take into account before we balst the game e.g. starting position, determination etc.

yeh that is true, but i always make a point in looking at a players stats after such a thing, it always shows me they are not even half the player, not to mention squad morale is low.. the gung hoe thing seems to make bad players into Alan Shearer reborn. if it was a 1 off fair enough, but it seems like thats how it is every time the Al score. watching my games, i play v-well, it's just these bogas instances where my players just stand there and let players run around them.

I don't agree with the assertion that one has to "adopt tactics that in real life simply wouldnt work or be used" to have success in the game.

I feel like I've got a pretty reasonable 4-4-2, with instructions set that I could imagine a real manager giving to a real player in that position - e.g., no "corner cheat", no "gung-ho winger who doesn't run with the ball", just a reasonable set of instructions for a reasonable set of players. If you frequent T&TT, I'm somewhere between wwfan's approach and the "Slider Apathy" approach.

I think chopper and Nomis have hit the nail on the head here: the problem isn't that its impossible to have success .. its that the game allows even an experienced simmer like Wayne'o to experience highly frustrating levels of failure without providing even a glimmer of a hint of what's going wrong.

Wayne'o, the hints I'd offer for getting out of the boat you're in are:

1. Back out of any "extreme" technical settings you've gone to - for example, if you've decided that, I dunno, "Closing Down Maximum" is the right setting, and have left that set for a while whilst tweaking other things, you've set up a situation where you can't judge the engine, all you can judge is the "Closing Down Maximum" setting .. and maybe you can't find a solid tactic because the "Closing Down Maximum" setting interferes with the other tactical settings. I'm not saying C.D. is the culprit - I'm saying extremism is a culprit I've noticed when my tactics have gone wrong in the past.

2. If you're getting the "Some matches it feels like the engine has decided I'm going to lose, even though nothing else is different" .. start interpreting that as "Some matches, I've gotten my team talk completely wrong." Then start paying close attention to those matches, and to the specific talk before you noticed the poor play from your team - it may be that you're always heaping pressure on a group of players who don't respond well to it .. or vice versa .. and for god's sake, if you're letting your A.M. handle team talks, take that responsibility back from him. You'll do better yourself! (In the long run - after some initial frustration to be sure.)

3. If you're still in the school that believes in having one single tactic for all situations, break that habit. The game has gotten complex enough that you need to develop several. I'd recommend a short-passing patient version of your formation, a direct-passing counter-attack version of your formation, and a 4-2-4-killer defensive version of your formation, as a bare minimum. Obviously don't bin the tactic that got you a 2-0 win at Old Trafford, but .. keep that as one option in a series. Most of my teams have between four and seven tactics set up for them, depending on how formation-flexible I find the player mix to be.

You might generalize those three pieces of advice to "Find a spot where you're assuming that you're doing everything right ... because its that assumption that is blinding you to what you're doing wrong."

. .

I'm honestly, in my game, not seeing what you're seeing, especially when you describe going down 0-4 before you have a chance to respond, and then battling back to a 4-4 draw.

Here's my fixture list from the past season, all matches included:

A 2-2
H 2-0
H 2-2
A 1-0
H 4-0 * (Cup v LL)
H 3-1
A 2-0
A 2-4
H 1-2
A 2-3
A 4-2
A 1-0
H 2-3
H 1-1
H 1-0
A 1-3
H 3-0
A 1-3
H 3-2
A 2-4
H 1-1
H 4-1
H 3-0
A 1-1
A 1-1
H 3-2
H 1-0
A 1-2
H 2-0
H 3-1

The pair of two-to-four defeats were away to top teams, where, both times, I chased the game while trailing and conceded more than I normally would. They didn't feel like inexplicable defeats to me - I abandoned my usual philosophy against a better team, and paid the price. I haven't kept as many clean sheets as I'd like - I prefer a nil-nil draw to a two-four defeat - but overall that's felt about right to me. I'm no world-beater: we're 7th in the table, with a team that I wasn't expecting was quite ready to challenge for a European placing and will probably falter in the final stretch.

Tnx for the calming advise m8, i have been ranting but only cos im pulling my hair out. iv tried to keep an open mind this season and look deeper into thing's..

Just beofre i read this, iv loaded up my game for today, i was playing derby away but they where favorutes to win, obviously i go tmy team talk and tactics right because i won 5-1 and Haynes scored another hatrick for me..

What i did that i wouldn't normally do is put every player accept the 2 forwards on low creative freedom, with the last notich of normal for mentality.. Now in my previous times, i will now take this tactic and reuse it again. this time id prob end up beeing on the end of a 5-1 thrashing...

may be im to attacking and im leaving to much space to be explioted. im gonna take a closer look and see..

looking at your results you lost 3 games in a row, id prob of paniced and started ranting at my players.

may be im just really fussy,

here are a thew screen shots just so you can see if im beeing over dramatic with my results.

team: http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/w/WayneB73/146193/ljcpstutpw.jpg

Results: http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/w/WayneB73/146193/tlxctzwiwl.jpg

Away Form: http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/w/WayneB73/146193/hjcskkwwwy.jpg

Home form: http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/w/WayneB73/146193/kyifrsnufx.jpg

Table: http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/w/WayneB73/146193/tlqqngvldu.jpg

Is anyone else seriously bored by these threads?

It's a game. They try to mirror real life but a GAME never will.

One example from the opening comments: closing down works fine, but it'll never be 100% effective because, well, they're trying to mirror real life. Besides, closing down quality players isn't always the way to go. Whenever I go up against (eg) Man U, I tell my players to never close down Ronaldo or Rooney, simply because they skin you every time. better to back off and make them pass.

No player is perfect on this game. Not even AI ones.

Other common complaints:

424 is EASY PEASY to counter.

There are no superkeepers. Adjust the tempo of your game.

Etc, etc...

If AI appears unbeatable then it's your tactics. I'm fifteen league games unbeaten - no restarting, no corner cheat, no editing the players. In fact, I'm currently experimenting with different challenges because I'm getting bored of the winning stuff.

Hopefully FM09 will fix the niggles like board confidence, chairmen sales and - yes - the effectiveness of 4-2-4 (not because I struggle with it but because of the conspiracy nuts).

Are your tactics realistic in a footballing sense though? If not then it's not a football sim, it's just an exercise in working out what the match engine does and how to get the best result out of it which is just an exercise in experimentation and observation of blobs moving around a screen.

In various previous versions any pleb could spend ages examining the match engine for flaws and ways in which the game allows you to counter them...or even more so just go to the Tactics forum where someone else will have done it for you. I guess there are probably such tactics for FM08 as well. What people want is to be able to understand their own tactics and what is wrong on a higher level, a footballing level, not a computing flaws level. I like the complexity of the tactics module, to be able to experiment with my tactics, but only if players do what you ask them to and you can get some kind of understanding of how your tactics changes affect what you see on the pitch. To a certain extent this is the case, to a certain extent it isn't.

It would help if the default tactics were defaults that made sense too. Having every player on team mentality makes no sense whatsoever and makes a tactic unusable without user tweaking and once you start tweaking there's a whole infinity of possibilities. I don't want default tactics to be world-beating without the user having to make any tweaks, ut having centre-backs playing with an attacking mentality if that is what your team is set to is clearly ridiculous.

thew topo scorer in the premiership in my game tends to get no more than 27 league goals.

seems fine to me.

i managed to keep quite a few clean sheets too.

even the poorest strikers can score a goal if you give them the time and space to do so. which either means you've got bad defneders with more concentration or your tactics are bad . e.g. playing defneders with 6 for pace and acceleration in a high defnesive line. or having your midfield line too far forward from the defnesive line. etc etc etc

the most amount of goals the winner of the premiership gets in my games are about the mid to high 80's. conceed someone in the high 30's low 40's.

not too bad.

FM2008 is a deep game needing a lot of work to get things right esp to tie up games but as nto everyone has a problem i would suggest its not the AI playing silly buggers, or maybe its just selected disks and there are 2 versions of th egame out there!

FM gets harder as it gets more complex I don't see FM2009 being any easier thats for sure

FM2008 is a deep game needing a lot of work to get things right esp to tie up games but as nto everyone has a problem i would suggest its not the AI playing silly buggers

Like I said, not everyone uses realistic tactics either. It's a combination of people's tactics and unrealistic game simulation by the AI.

it's easy to score 5 if you happy to let in 4 or 5. but thats just so unreal.. there isnt a balance...

This is just realistic.

Any RL manager could create a tactic that scores and concedes lost.

It's YOUR tactic which would be supposed to create the balance. If your tactic allows for so many chances on both sides, that is the genuine cause of the goals flying in. I have seen those strange results in games with human managers, but realistically rarely in AI-only matches. You can't blame the game for being coded correctly.

btw my own stats say that there are a bit less than 4 goals scored per match in which my side plays. That's a bit more than realistic, but I know it's my tactic and frankly I prefer a few goals more to boring 1-0s all the way

For a comparison, I set up a friendly between Brazil and Argentina, and selected full-strength squads with all European players match fit. Each side played with my "creative" formation, basically, one tick lower than my all-out-attack formation. The result? Brazil 6, Argentina 3.

I can't say if that's perfectly realistic - I can't remember the last time somebody went at Brazil with an attacking mindset! ... but the match did feel about right to me on "Extended Highlights".

Wayne'o, you're welcome. I didn't see anything in your screenshots that looked over-the-top to me. You score and concede a lot away from home, and you wind up with a lot of low-scoring draws at home .. so if you wanted to shade your tactics at all, I'd say you might want to try being more conservative away - aim for those 0-0 and 1-1 draws .. and you might want to look at converting a couple more home games into wins. But, as Ipswich? I'd say you're doing d*** well, mate!!

Regarding the 3-match losing streak: I was victimized by Arsenal, Man. U., and Newcastle in back-to-back matches .. I adjust the post-match team-talk based on the opposition, so I think it was "Good Effort" each time, with an occasional "Disappointed" for anybody on a 5 .. had I been at home against a team I thought I should beat, it would have been "Disappointed" with a "Pleased" for anybody on an 8 and an "Angry" for anybody on a 5 ... and it is worth giving them the hairdryer treatment if they go absolutely abysmal for a match.

Oh .. one other thing I was thinking about re: this thread while falling asleep last night. When I have a good winning streak going, I often get a one-match-early "warning" when the team is about to pitch a poor performance. With my defensive stance, that usually looks like barely scraping a 1-0 win, usually thanks to a substitute scoring the goal in the final 15 minutes, over a team I thought we should beat handily. There will likely have been one or two mental mistakes that didn't lead to goals in that match as well.

That's when I break out the "Warn Against Complacency In The Next Match" post-match team-talk - and if I've timed it right, basically, caught them being complacent in this match, it works for staving off the poor performance in the next match. Of course, if I've read it wrong, they all hate me for not giving them credit.

Your tactic can be spot on for beating teams near you in the league, because they are likely to go for the win, but for weak teams who defend all out the tactic fails miserably and SOMEHOW this translates into losing 3-1 with them dominating. This is a flaw in the ME more than it is with your tactic, I feel this is borne out by real life where weak teams NEVER dominate the strong teams who roll with the same tactics (slight variations but the same formation generally) as they do against their fellow strong teams. edit- what I'm saying here is I don't understand how a very defensive formation leads to a team dominating.

I have also seen far too many goals in both high detail and low detail leagues.

Also the fact that in many saves Derby thrive in the Premiership is unrealistic , I've personally (only played 5 different saves so nowhere near conclusive) never seen them relegated.

Your tactic can be spot on for beating teams near you in the league, because they are likely to go for the win, but for weak teams who defend all out the tactic fails miserably and SOMEHOW this translates into losing 3-1 with them dominating. This is a flaw in the ME more than it is with your tactic, I feel this is borne out by real life where weak teams NEVER dominate the strong teams who roll with the same tactics (slight variations but the same formation generally) as they do against their fellow strong teams. edit- what I'm saying here is I don't understand how a very defensive formation leads to a team dominating.

I have also seen far too many goals in both high detail and low detail leagues.

Also the fact that in many saves Derby thrive in the Premiership is unrealistic , I've personally (only played 5 different saves so nowhere near conclusive) never seen them relegated.

Earmack,

I was playing a match yesterday, and observing a highlight - and you know I tend to play a pretty conservative, low-scoring outlook, even at home. I saw a team come out *defensive* against me, and literally, one of their attacks was 2-on-8: their two strikers, unsupported by any midfield player, against my four-man back line and four-man midfield. However, my defender, having won possession, lumped the ball "Direct" upfield, bypassing my midfield ...

... in other words, putting the ball up for my strikers, who were, you guessed it, outnumbered 2-on-8. Their centre-back won the header, their midfield collected, and the "defensive" visitors were right back in possession.

I could see *immediately* that if that's how we were going to play the game, it would lead to a playground jungle-ball style .. and since the opposition were at least getting it forward on the ground, to feet, they would have the upper hand against my aerial direct balls.

Its the 6th minute of the match. I'm already making a tactical adjustment.

If I'd left it as-is, sure, I can see how, by dint of never having possession, I'd have gone on to lose that match 1-to-3 .. and don't blame my defender for poor decisions! He's probably wondering "Why the heck does the gaffer want me to lump it forward like this when there are plenty of other options?"

I switched to something I call my "patient build-up": slow tempo, short passing, plenty of opportunity for the midfield and fullbacks to get involved in the attack. It took about fifty minutes of that, but around the hour, I got the goal I thought I "deserved" against the park-the-bus defense - ball into the box for a striker, who "teed it up" back into the arc for one of my central midfielders to blast home.

(In a lot of people's tactics, that striker, with a defender in pretty close proximity, would have taken the shot himself - but with the defender able to do enough to "put him off", it might have missed or gone easily to the keeper .. which is where the "superkeeper" myth originates.)

I was able to switch back to my defend-and-counter tactic .. and with the opposition forced to attack me, I scored twice more on "Direct" counters: my defender lumping it over their pushed-forward back line, and my pacey striker running onto it - once to finish himself, and once to slot a pass through the box to his strike partner.

Final score: 3-0.

2 seconds Wow your players must be slow and theres lighting quick unless they shoot from the halfway line at 100 at 25 yards a second as soon as kick off takes place i think thats impossible no?

id be happy to win 10 games 1-0 not 5-4.

I consistantly win games one nil.

I do play untra defensive tactics (literally) though and look to play every game like Rangers in Europe last season - works well too after beating Lyon 1-0 at home, drawing 1-1 away and holding Real to a 0-0 in the first season on v8.0.2 with only Magnin the left back signed in place of Papac.

A lot of people complain about the game being unrealistic, but if you look at their tactics they will be something god-awful with farrows everywhere.

This match engine is terrible and you all know it if a player is clean through it is rare he scores dont give me no ******** about tactics either because if you picked man utds team and sent them out they wudn't just play long balls...