More attributes?

I think more attributes should be added into the game because its not realistic enough with just crossing... or freekicks we need things like set-piece delivery.. anyone think of any more?

I think more attributes should be added into the game because its not realistic enough with just crossing... or freekicks we need things like set-piece delivery.. anyone think of any more?

No more stats!! Its hard enough to remember what the key stats are atm imo.

Personally, I don't think more stats are necessary.

More stats = less use of your own initiative. The game would be to easy.

I don't think any more stats are needed but there is 1 stat which should be in the game but isn't, i've previously created a topic on this subject before. Its how a player degrades as a player once he reaches his old age, I argue it should be different for every player...no human is equal in terms of how long they can go on for, look at Maldini and Sheringham, this stat would be called 'Degration'.

I don't think any more stats are needed but there is 1 stat which should be in the game but isn't, i've previously created a topic on this subject before. Its how a player degrades as a player once he reaches his old age, I argue it should be different for every player...no human is equal in terms of how long they can go on for, look at Maldini and Sheringham, this stat would be called 'Degration'.

Do natural fitness, adaptability and stamina not cover these?

Do natural fitness, adaptability and stamina not cover these?

No...natural fitness is how long a player can play continously before he gets jaded. Stamina is how long he is able to perform at his peak before he gets tired, adaptability is how well he can play in a different position and if trained in another position how well he can remember that position.

I don't think any more stats are needed but there is 1 stat which should be in the game but isn't, i've previously created a topic on this subject before. Its how a player degrades as a player once he reaches his old age, I argue it should be different for every player...no human is equal in terms of how long they can go on for, look at Maldini and Sheringham, this stat would be called 'Degration'.

So what are you saying? 20 "Degration" means that they are shocking compared to when they were younger and 0 "degration" exactly as they were when they were younger??

So what are you saying? 20 "Degration" means that they are shocking compared to when they were younger and 0 "degration" exactly as they were when they were younger??

No what I mean is if a player has 20 degration their stats will start to decay when they are 29-31, if its 1 degration then their stats will decay when they get to 35-37 years old. Ideally players degration won't be 1 nor 20 unless for a very few players. You will see the majority of players with degration ranging from 5-16, that doesn't mean no player can have 2 or 3 or anything outside 5-16 but just a very few players

No...natural fitness is how long a player can play continously before he gets jaded. Stamina is how long he is able to perform at his peak before he gets tired, adaptability is how well he can play in a different position and if trained in another position how well he can remember that position.

Im sure natural fitness covers it. Attributes can do more than one thing. Also adaptability is not how they play in a different position, thats moe to do with living in a different country etc. Versatility is how well they play in different positions.

No...natural fitness is how long a player can play continously before he gets jaded. Stamina is how long he is able to perform at his peak before he gets tired, adaptability is how well he can play in a different position and if trained in another position how well he can remember that position.

I thought versatility was how well he could play in a different position and adaptability was how well he could adjust to settling in another country.

Oh and please, no more stats.

I thought versatility was how well he could play in a different position and adaptability was how well he could adjust to settling in another country.

Sorry yes your right, I was thinking adaptability was versatility lol, silly me.

Silly you

Oh and please, no more stats.

Come on...this one attribute called degration won't hurt, it makes the game more realistic. Have you ever bought someone very expensive, say for £45 million? And your thinking...he is now 28 and in a few years his stats will start to decay, before spending £45 million you would like yourself to know how long this player can play for, I know I would. At the moment all players in the game start to decay at the same age.

No more stats!! Its hard enough to remember what the key stats are atm imo.

+1

Theres enough stats!

Come on...this one attribute called degration won't hurt, it makes the game more realistic. Have you ever bought someone very expensive, say for £45 million? And your thinking...he is now 28 and in a few years his stats will start to decay, before spending £45 million you would like yourself to know how long this player can play for, I know I would. At the moment all players in the game start to decay at the same age.

Two points to make.

1) Like I said above, I think Natural Fitness covers this.

2) How do you know how fast a player is going to 'decay', wouldn't it be unrealistic to be able to see such a stat?

2 kind of contradicts the first point but Natural Fitness is also used for other things

+1

Theres enough stats!

You can never have enough of anything thats good...think MONEY.

Two points to make.

1) Like I said above, I think Natural Fitness covers this.

2) How do you know how fast a player is going to 'decay', wouldn't it be unrealistic to be able to see such a stat?

2 kind of contradicts the first point but Natural Fitness is also used for other things

I'm sorry but 'Natural fitness' does not cover what i've been trying to explain which is player degration. What you are saying is this...that natural fitness determines when a player starts to lose his stats...that ain't true.

Natural Fitness is a stat which determines his fitness for matches, the high the natural fitness the more matches a player can play in a whole season.

What you said in point #2...players who are like world class can play well beyond lets say the normal age, its not that hard to see when a player will stop playing when he is young, I think players who are more athletic are more likely to play into their mid-thirties.

I'm sorry but 'Natural fitness' does not cover what i've been trying to explain which is player degration. What you are saying is this...that natural fitness determines when a player starts to lose his stats...that ain't true.

Can you prove that?

I'm not being funny but I've never seen any proof of it, I'd be interested to know one way or the other.

Can you prove that?

I'm not being funny but I've never seen any proof of it, I'd be interested to know one way or the other.

Yes I can prove it...it says in the manual of FM2008 what Natural fitness is like I explained it.

Yes I can prove it...it says in the manual of FM2008 what Natural fitness is like I explained it.

Btw...if natural fitness was also something else it would tell you in the manual which it doesn't.

Nonsense, when a club sign a player in real life they aren't able to find out when the player is going to start "decaying" (he's not a corpse) and it's a risk you take when signing somebody approaching 30, deal with it.

no more attributes!!! there's enough as it is... and as for the "decaying" thing... you dont see it irl, so why put it in the game??

it's a risk you take when signing somebody approaching 30, deal with it.

Nonsense, when a club sign a player in real life they aren't able to find out when the player is going to start "decaying" (he's not a corpse) and it's a risk you take when signing somebody approaching 30, deal with it.

I think you getting the wrong idea, what i'm stressing is that ALL players at the moment start to lose their stats at the same age in the game as everyone else, in real life that is NOT true, all players regardless of ability have a linear stat loss rate also from the moment their stats start to drop so that is another thing which needs to be considered.

I think you getting the wrong idea, what i'm stressing is that ALL players at the moment start to lose their stats at the same age in the game as everyone else, in real life that is NOT true, all players regardless of ability have a linear stat loss rate also from the moment their stats start to drop so that is another thing which needs to be considered.

Personally I don't think that will be included as how will researchers actually rate that stat for players that have not 'decayed' yet. I mean how is anyone going to say what Ronaldo's decay stat is.

Personally I don't think that will be included as how will researchers actually rate that stat for players that have not 'decayed' yet. I mean how is anyone going to say what Ronaldo's decay stat is.

Well looking at his ability in real life I would say he can play at his peak till he is 35

Well looking at his ability in real life I would say he can play at his peak till he is 35

Your plan is completely flawed, you can't judge when somebody will start to "decay" (someone please find a better word) based on his current ability, coming up with any such stat would be complete guess work. Bad idea.

Your plan is completely flawed, you can't judge when somebody will start to "decay" (someone please find a better word) based on his current ability, coming up with any such stat would be complete guess work. Bad idea.

Yeah, I agree with this. Navie, how can you say Ronaldo will be at his peak until he is 35? That is only guessing.

An attribute for how fast a player will develop and how fast a player will decay would acctually be a very good idea. It's much more fun when those things isn't at the same rate for everyone.

You're complaining that it isn't possible to set that value because we don't know how fast someone will decay.. Do we know how good a player who never had played outside his own country will make it in another country? (adaptibility)

An attribute for how fast a player will develop and how fast a player will decay would acctually be a very good idea. It's much more fun when those things isn't at the same rate for everyone.

You're complaining that it isn't possible to set that value because we don't know how fast someone will decay.. Do we know how good a player who never had played outside his own country will make it in another country? (adaptibility)

Never thought of that. Fair point.

An attribute for how fast a player will develop and how fast a player will decay would acctually be a very good idea. It's much more fun when those things isn't at the same rate for everyone.

You're complaining that it isn't possible to set that value because we don't know how fast someone will decay.. Do we know how good a player who never had played outside his own country will make it in another country? (adaptibility)

You've just given me an idea...

...I don't know how much of this is like real or imaginary but here it goes...I know it will be hard to have an idea when a player will start to decay and thus giving a value to a player for 'degration' is not possible, guessing is not an option. So...I think it could be down to a number of stats that are already in the game BUT its not binded together at the moment to produce this degration stat in the game.

In the real world if you have a player who has the right attributes (mental and physical) then maybe he can last much longer as a footballer, maybe his technical ability may affect this...I don't know, for the moment i'm just getting an idea what makes a player last longer, there is a logical explanation in real life. It can be done.

Yes I can prove it...it says in the manual of FM2008 what Natural fitness is like I explained it.

How fit a player is as standard - his base level of fitness. It affects how many games he is likely to be able to perform to peak physically fitness in before noticeably tired and suspectible to injury.

To me, that sounds exactly as what Neji says: how many consecutive games a player can perform before he gets jaded and succumbs to injury.

I also believe that Neji is right, since I've seen several players with a low natural fitness get jaded easier than others.

Having said that, the 'Degeneration' or 'Decay' stat would be very nice. I can see the possibilities of that. I don't care if it's correct, you never know how fast a person starts to degenerate, but it certainly is better than the current solution, which practically means you can trash any player older than 31 because by then their acceleration and speed have dropped to hideous levels, together with the stamina. I can imagine the stamina and the natural fitness, but it shouldn't affect the speed that much, or any technical ability.

That, along with the previously mentioned 'Late Bloomer' stat would be a good idea of having in a future game.

Well looking at his ability in real life I would say he can play at his peak till he is 35

Peak? At 35?

You're complaining that it isn't possible to set that value because we don't know how fast someone will decay.. Do we know how good a player who never had played outside his own country will make it in another country? (adaptibility)

To me that is a personality issue, personalities can be scouted.

I do think there should be a bigger difference in some players but I do think that it should come down to natural fitness.

Always thought that heading should be split into two to be honest.

A Drogba header at goal is worlds apart from a big head from Vidic that clears the ball out of the defence.

Maybe that would resolve the corner cheat also?

The longevity of a player should depend on mental attributes, position, how much game time he has played (+internationals etc, or he could ask the manager to not play him so much, therefore extending his use-by date), how many injuries he has had and his character. For example no winger can be very effective past say their 30s but if they are able to adapt to a new position they don't need the pace so much. Also strength etc shouldn't go down. There can't be a single governing stat that controls all this and I agree that natural fitness should have some effect on this.

My point is that stats don't need to be added because there are already stats that cover this control, its the way the game uses these stats and other ones to determine a player's downfall rather than adding a new stat to reduce the realism that is possible without it.

I do have a suggestion though. Maybe condition of older players shouldn't go up to over 90% so often? They shouldn't be able to play as often.

Also, judging by how Ronaldo is flying I doubt he can last past the age of 31. I think hes good just wingers don't last for so long

Not all players start to degenerate at the same age, or more correctly perhaps they don't degenerate at the same speed. There is certainly an issue with the speed at which some players lose their attributes, but only a hidden attribute would be suitable to cover that anyway and I assume it is mostly hidden attributes that already contribute to this.

As for more attributes - I don't want more attributes. Lots of people seem to be interchanging stats and attributes - I'm always in favour of more stats, just not more attributes!

Also, judging by how Ronaldo is flying I doubt he can last past the age of 31. I think hes good just wingers don't last for so long

Ryan Giggs seems to be doing alright at 34

I don't think we currently need more attributes, everything is covered by what's already in the game imo. I would like to see more PPM's but I feel the attributes we currently have are sufficient.

The point about an attribute to control how quickly a player declines once they reach the later stages of their career is interesting. I don't like the idea of having this as an attribute, either visible or hidden, but I doubt anyone can deny that the development of players is generally too linear, partcularly in terms of how and when players start to decline.

In most games I've played many players become pretty useless once they get past 30, particularly attacking players. defenders and GK's can play on a while after they hit 30 but no attacking players are much good once they get past 30 and start to rapidly lose their physical attributes.

What we need is for the attributes that are already in the game to have more of an influence an how quickly a player develops and how quickly they decline. Attributes such as Determination should have more of an impact on this as well as hidden attributes such as Professionalism. Other factors such as injuries, level of competition, training facilities and possibly coaching staff could all play a part in how long a player can keep performing at the top level. I think the point is valid, in real life players decline at very different rates - players like Giggs, Scholes, Phillips and Sheringham can still all do the business well into their 30's, while some players lose a lot of their ability in their early 30's. In the game it's a bit too linear, there may be some slight variation in how quickly a player declines but this should be influenced by more factors, leading to much more variation and the opportunity to keep some players playing at the top level until their mid 30's.

As for more attributes - I don't want more attributes. Lots of people seem to be interchanging stats and attributes - I'm always in favour of more stats, just not more attributes!

Yup, more stats would be great, but I can't think of any attributes other than the oens included that would be necessary.

I would like to see some of the hidden attributes unmasked over time though e.g. loyalty, maybe appearing after sufficient playing time for each player. It's alright with players like Anelka because we know what they are like, but IMO the current transfer system/market in FM isn't necessarily a true indication of a players loyalty, a Peruvian newgen on my game had 4 clubs in 4 years to me that seems like an disloyal player, but his loyalty attribute was actually 16 and he had been moving clubs because he hadn't been getting enough games.

At the start of the game the hidden attributes should be hidden because we don't really know that much about the player, but as the game progresses and we see the players more often we should learn more about them and the attributes should become visible.

Always thought that heading should be split into two to be honest.

A Drogba header at goal is worlds apart from a big head from Vidic that clears the ball out of the defence.

So true

the more attributes in the game the more balancing there needs to be.

if you dont think that the balancing between players and their stats is good enough now then it's probably going to be worse with more stats.

personally i'm fine as it currently is but wouldn't be adverse to more

Always thought that heading should be split into two to be honest.

A Drogba header at goal is worlds apart from a big head from Vidic that clears the ball out of the defence.

So true

I can't see why on earth they would need to be split up. Even when you are heading the ball out of defence you are still generally aiming to head it somewhere specific even if it is often sub-conscious. Centre-backs go up for corners, targetmen like Drogba come back to defend corners so clearly an ability to head the ball is pretty much universal.

I can't see why on earth they would need to be split up. Even when you are heading the ball out of defence you are still generally aiming to head it somewhere specific even if it is often sub-conscious. Centre-backs go up for corners, targetmen like Drogba come back to defend corners so clearly an ability to head the ball is pretty much universal.

As a centre back myself I have to say NO. To clear a ball from defence you aim up and look to get distance. A bullet header is more precise, takes a lower neck position and less shoulder use.

I would say long passing and short passing are the same. A Makelele ten-footer is worlds apart from the Glen Hoddle or Kaka defence splitters.

Just a thought.

Don't a lot of stats compliment each other? High passing but low creativity will be a Makelele type pass but high passing, high creativity will be those Kaka ones. Kaka can pass like Makelele but Makelele can't pass like Kaka.

Free kicks linked to shooting / long shots / creativity.

Heading linked to marking / positioning / anticipation / decisions for defenders.

Heading linked to off the ball / anticipation / bravery for strikers.

Above are just possible examples, not me giving you a definitive list. I often use stats like this when deciding who to buy if the stats are fairly close.

And if I'm wrong, I still don't want more stats, thanks. The screen's full enough.

...this stat would be called 'Degration'.

Are we sure 'degration' is even a real word? I mean, I've heard of 'degradation', but never 'degration.'

Are we sure 'degration' is even a real word? I mean, I've heard of 'degradation', but never 'degration.'

I don't know, it was an example of what the stat would be called.

I'm happy some people think that players decline as a footballer at different ages and also something very important...footballers also decline at very different rates...I totally agree. At the moment everything is set at a linear value so its very unrealistic, this definetely needs attention in my opinion.

As a centre back myself I have to say NO. To clear a ball from defence you aim up and look to get distance. A bullet header is more precise, takes a lower neck position and less shoulder use.

I would say long passing and short passing are the same. A Makelele ten-footer is worlds apart from the Glen Hoddle or Kaka defence splitters.

Just a thought.

Long and short passing I could definitely agree on, but heading is just splitting hairs to me. Sure, I admit there is a difference between a defensive header and an attacking one (although as I said, centre-backs generally go forward for those bullet headers at corners anyway), but you could say the same about any attribute - that it works differently if you are under pressure in your own box than if you are in the final third of the field. Like backpatent said, a lot of this stuff is already in the game as a combination of attributes - no single attribute determines anything I wouldn't think - there is always a combination of attributes that determine how a pass or header is made.

I just don't think you can give a player an attribute for what his decline is going to be like. You just can't know such a thing. Obviously, you can make informed guesses. For example, we might suggest that Cristiano Ronaldo will lose something from his game when his pace begins to decline. But we can't forecast when exactly that will happen, or exactly how dramatic it will be. So I personally would be against implementing a specific stat for this.