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bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 14:23
Welcome to the Dragon’s Den. You’re here because you want to become the owner of a Third Division Scottish Football Club. What you must do is persuade the Dragon (that’s me) to part with 50 million of his hard earned to allow you to purchase a club and get it off to a flying start in the game. Can you make the right decisions at the start to take your chosen club to the top of the Scottish game? I won’t be giving out any cash unless you come up with a solid business plan.

The Dragon has of course spoken to the SFL and has their full backing for the idea. There are a few provisos though. Each club must have a brand new, all-seater stadium built, along with both training and youth facilities. The SFL have not stipulated a minimum level on the standard of these facilities, but it is hoped they will be of the highest order, for the benefit of the Scottish game.

All of the new chairmen will be young entrepreneurs and are just 30 years of age, and each of these individuals is of varying competence. As such, each has been asked to make a donation to charity which they believe reflects their current and future abilities as owners of football clubs. If the individuals feel they have (in addition to the dragon’s money) sufficiently deep pockets to be described as ‘sugar daddies’, they must lodge a non-returnable bond of 5,000,000 up front. All of this will come from your initial 50 million.

All of the clubs will start with a clean slate, ie, none will have any players, and will be in a position whereby they need to get a whole squad together by the start of the 2007/8 season. The new chairmen can however appoint a manager, who will be a previously unknown individual, and it will cost them to appoint a decent one.

With all clubs starting out as equals, what will the long term effects of this be? Which teams will be able to rise through the divisions? Will they all ultimately replace the top teams in the SPL? Can they possibly challenge the notorious Old Firm of the Scottish game?

There are a couple of things to note for anyone wanting to take part. I want to do this as an experiment; therefore I want you to put some thought into how your club will look and make it distinct from the others. Will starting out with a massive rep see you blow the others out the water? Should you keep a horde of cash in the bank to blitz the other teams? Should you max out training and youth facilities? Will creating a relatively massive stadium lead to eventual success?

Secondly, there’s going to be a bit of maths involved….

Note: I imagine this will take a while to sign up, if anyone at all is even interested. As such it gives me time to rattle through ‘Disharmony’, so no fears there. Also, once underway I would envisage updates being about twice a year as we want to see fairly quick progress once under way. Also, hats off to canvey!! for the Apprentice idea; and apologies to anyone running a ‘create a team’ sign up, I hope this is different

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 14:26
EDIT: I'm afraid it's fully signed up now.

What we need, then, are 9 other individuals to be chairmen of these clubs. I’ll be one of them.

You will have 50,000,000 to start with. You need to make a number of decisions, as set out below. You MUST present your decisions as a business plan (ie, give reasons for them). The best MIGHT get a small bonus. There might be deductions for bad maths…

I reserve the right to reject applications that haven’t really tried.

Here are the decisions you will face:





Club info:

Your club (MUST be a real Scottish Div 3 club)
Club reputation (1-10,000).

Cost: $5,000 per point. (ie max of 10,000 will cost all $50 million)

Town’s attraction level (1-20)

Cost: $100,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $2 million)



Stadium info

Stadium name (optional)
Stadium size

Cost: 1,000 per seat, and a further
500 per fan of your average attendance to represent advertising costs.
200 per ‘fair weather’ fan included in maximum attendance in excess of average (this is for the 'max attendance' figure; it doesn't have to be more than the average attendance)



Training and youth facilities

Training facilities (1-20)

Cost: $250,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $5 million)

Youth facilities (1-20)

Cost: $250,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $5 million)



Chairman

Chairman name (this is ‘you’)
Chairman stats: PA and CA only (1-200) – your charity donation will be

Cost: $25,000 per CA point (ie max of 200 will cost $5 million)
$10,000 per PA point in excess of CA.

Is he a sugardaddy? Yes or no.

Cost: $5 million



Manager

Manager name (MUST be fictional)
Manager PA and CA (1-200)

Cost: $20,000 per CA point
$10,000 per PA point in excess of CA

Does the manager love the club? It will cost sweetener for him to say yes

Cost: $250,000 if yes; 0 if no

Contract length (1-5 years). The longer makes it less likely you’ll lose him.

Cost: $100,000 per year.



Cash in the bank / loan debt

Anything you have left over is cash in the bank, which you probably need to strengthen the squad. You can also borrow some cash in excess of the total $50 million budget, subject to the below.
If you go over budget, you will start with loan debt of double that amount, payable over 10 years.
So, if you think all this is complicated: it’s meant to be. I’m hoping it will make a fairly interesting sign-up/experiment.

Any questions (and I can imagine there’s hundreds), just ask.

Edit: In spite of the dollar signs above, this will all be in pounds. Just the laptop I'm using...will edit it later.

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
09-08-2008, 14:31
Absolutely love the idea. :thup:

Will get my head down and go through the maths for my application now! :D

PaulHartman71
09-08-2008, 14:43
Great idea, and I am currently doing my application :thup:

PaulHartman71
09-08-2008, 14:46
Could you please explain this for me - '200 per ‘fair weather’ fan included in maximum attendance in excess of average'. I'm really confused by what it means

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 14:48
Could you please explain this for me - '200 per ‘fair weather’ fan included in maximum attendance in excess of average'. I'm really confused by what it means


Ah sorry. In the database you have a 'max attendance'. So it's just really if you want to make that more than your 'average'.

PaulHartman71
09-08-2008, 14:50
oh, ok that makes sense :thup:

PaulHartman71
09-08-2008, 14:58
Right, so just to check, say you had a 100K Seater Stadium, your average was 80K, and then you selected the 'fair weather' as 100K, would you only be paying for the extra 20K or what?

rlipscombe
09-08-2008, 14:59
absolutely great idea bermybhoy!! can we vote for this in the awards?? :D. my application is as follows:



Club info:

Your club (MUST be a real Scottish Div 3 club) EAST STIRLING
Club reputation 3,000 (£15million) i have gone for this to keep it fairly realistic.
Town’s attraction level (1-20) 20 (£2million) it's a beautiful place to live, and will hopefully prove valuable down the line....


Stadium info

Stadium name The Highland Spring Stadium
Stadium size 10,000 (total cost including all below = £14.1million) The average attendance wants to be 7,000 and max attendance is 10,000
i believe that a 10,000 seater stadium is sustainable, and i don't want lots of empty seats not making the club money. doesn't make financial sense. when the club make further money down the line, we can expand as necessary using profits made.



Training and youth facilities

Training facilities (1-20) 10 (£2.5million)
Youth facilities (1-20) 12 (£3million)


training facilites must be at a standard to ensure that we can attract the necessary players, and ensure that we can get the best out of them. youth is important as they are the future of the club, both in terms of talent and ultimately profit.

Chairman

Chairman name Richard Lipscombe
Chairman stats: PA = 130 and CA = 80 only Is he a sugardaddy? NO (total cost £2.5million)

i am a novice to the role, and am realistic as to my own abilities. i will improve for sure though.


Manager

Manager name Archie McFergus
Manager PA and CA (1-200) CA = 100 (£2million) and PA = 150 (£500,000)
Does the manager love the club? YES (250,000) why would he not love the club?
Contract length (1-5 years). 5 Years (£500,000) will be worth it in the long run without doubt
the manager is the heartbeat of the team, and by rewarding him with a long contract, it instills confidence which ultimately leads to results.


I make that as my total being £42,350,000 with leaves me with a balance of £7,650,000. I hope everything is fine for you bermybhoy - would love to be a part of this.

good luck with it either way. :thup:

(felt that i needed to improve my pitch a little....)

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 14:59
Precisely.

Although 100,000 would be pretty ambitious I would have thought....

PaulHartman71
09-08-2008, 15:01
Oh don't worry, I just used that as an example :D

NepentheZ
09-08-2008, 15:01
Albion Rovers Business Plan.

Club Info

Club - Albion Rovers
Club Rep - 2,000 (@ £10,000,000)
Town Attraction - 20 (@ £2,000,000)

Summary - Basically, I have decided to give the club a relatively low Club Rep - even though for the S. Div. 3 - this should still be the biggest about. Coupled with a big town attraction, and what will be quite a large stadium - the rep should rise rather quickly, as the Stadium is consistently filled, giving Albion Rovers money to sign big name players and progress easily through the divisions.

Stadium info

Stadium Name - The World Arena
Stadium Size - 13,250 seats (@ £13,250,000)
5,000 Average attendance (@ £2,500,000)
0 "Fair Weather" fans (@ £0.00)

Summary - The fan base isn't too important here. I envisage that the Scottish 3rd Div (Which I will refer to as SD3 for ease of typing) wont really attract many fans anyway. So giving myself a large fan base will probably see it drop dramatically quite quickly. The stadium is big, so that hopefully the fans will flock in to come and see us in this popular area when we get big matches, and that in turn will reward us with financial stability.


Training and youth facilities

Training facilities 5 (@ £1,250,000)
Youth facilities 5 (@ £1,250,000)

Summary - Again, as the focus point of my business plan is creating a stadium large enough to bring in massive revenue, this section I see with little interest. the money made from the stadium will allow the club to upgrade where needed in due course.

Chairman

Chairman name - Craig "NepentheZ" Douglas

Chairman stats: CA - 200 (@ £5,000,000)

Is he a sugardaddy? No (@ £0.00)

The idea here is that the club will not need a sugar daddy, as it will be processing money as if it had its own printing factory. I truly believe the use of this feature would not benefit the club in any way. However, the importance of a good chairman will explain my 200/200 CA/PA. I'm a very charitable man.


Manager

Manager name - Paul "Warlock" Wallace

Manager CA 200 (@ £4,000,000)

Does the manager love the club? Yes (@ £250,000)

Contract length - 5 years (@ £500,000)

Again, the manager is a key factor in the club. Keeping him here, and keeping him happy is vital. I may well go on to regret giving him 200/200 PA, but its a risk I'm willing to take. As long as he stays with the club for 3-4 years, I can see the club getting promoted to the SPL in that time, and then the manager and club moving forwards.

Total Spent - £36,750,000
Total Left - £10,000,000

I hope I've done everything correctly. :) if not, please let me know so I can amend it asap. Cheers

Love the idea of this, btw. Great sign up, something very unique, and I hope it picks up and lasts.

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
09-08-2008, 15:07
Stranraer - The new Atlantic Force

Dear Dragons,

Thnank you for letting me put this proposal in front of you today. After years of thought I have come up with the fantastic idea to turn this West Coast Scottish town into the centre of the youth football world. Dragons, I present to you my business plan for Stranraer FC:


Club Info
Club Name: Stranraer FC
Club Rep: 2,000
Town Attraction Level: 10

Reasons:
I have gone for a low club rep as the basis for this club is not to obtain world superstars, but to produce top class youth players that can then be sold on (making a decent return for you dragons!). In this respect, the reputation of the club will speak for itself after a few years.

Costs: £10m for club rep and a further £1m for attractiveness = £11m.


Stadium Info
Stadium Name: The Atlantic Bowl
Stadium Size: 10,000
Average Attendance: 8,000

Reasons:
I think it is important that the youngsters play infront of a small, but decent size crowd week in week out, so I wish to spend some money to make sure that they regularly play infront of a few thousands.

Costs: £10m for stadium size and a further £4m for average attendance = £14m

Total costs so far = £25m


Club Facilities
Training Facilities: 20
Youth Facilities 20

Reasons:
In my eyes, this is our USP (unique selling point) - if we are to be the centre of youth football in the UK and the World, we need fantastic facilities to create star players. Therefore, I want to spend the maximum on both facilities so that we can produce some gems.

Costs: £5m for training and £5m for facilities = £10m

Total costs = £35m


Chairman Stats
Chairman Name: Dave WW
CA: 80
PA: 130
Sugardaddy: No

Reasons:
I don't feel the chariman needs to be fantastic - its the players on the pitch that will do the talking, therefore I don't think it is necessary to spend a lot of money on sending me on training courses to improve my ability.

Costs: £2m for CA and a further £0.5m for excess PA.

Total costs: £37.5m


Manager Info

Name: Brucie Bonus
CA: 160
PA: 160
Loves the club: No
Contract Length: 5

Reasons:
Whilst it isn't that important to have a great chairman, having a great manager will help the players reach their potential quicker and in turn will raise us more money in the long run. Therefore, I believe we should invest in a quality manager who has a long contract so that clubs wishing to poach him would have to pay a large compensation fee to us for his services.

Costs: £3.2m for CA and £0.5m for contract length = £3.7m

Total Costs: £41.2m
Remaining Bank Balance: £8.8m


Thank you for your time dragons, I hope you enjoyed the presentation and if you have any questions I will be willing to answer them. :)

PaulHartman71
09-08-2008, 15:07
Club info:

Your club (MUST be a real Scottish Div 3 club) - Forfar, they have a fairly good history in Scottish Football, and I hope to help them back into the higher leagues

Club reputation (1-10,000) - 3,000 - I believe will cost 15M, every club needs a good reputation to get off to a good start


Cost: $5,000 per point. (ie max of 10,000 will cost all $50 million)


Town’s attraction level (1-20) - 20 - The Town needs a good attraction level, and I believe 20 makes it the most possible attractable town. This will cost 2M


Cost: $100,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $2 million)



Current Total - 16M. The reputation I have chosen here along with the attraction level is good enough for a 3rd division club imo.


Stadium info

Stadium name (optional) - I'd like to keep it as Station Park which I believe is their current stadium name.

Stadium size - 5,000, will cost 5M. Not a massive stadium, but it will be upgraded if needed be.

Cost: 1,000 per seat, and a further
500 per fan of your average attendance to represent advertising costs. 5,000, will cost 2.5M

200 per ‘fair weather’ fan included in maximum attendance in excess of average - Don't think I need this?




Total is now 23.5M. We didn't need a massive stadium, and it will be upgraded anyway if we make it up the leagues.

Training and youth facilities

Training facilities (1-20)

Cost: $250,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $5 million) 8



Youth facilities (1-20)

Cost: $250,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $5 million) 8
I chose 8 for both as that should cost 2M each, making 4M for both. Despite these not being really high, I imagine they will be upgraded when we go up the leagues, making them bigger now would be a bit pointless imo




Total is now 27.5M. I gave us decent facilities, but again they will be upgraded if we are in a higher league.

Chairman

Chairman name (this is ‘you’) - Paul Hart

Chairman stats: PA and CA only (1-200) – your charity donation will be

Cost: $25,000 per CA point (ie max of 200 will cost $5 million) - 80, will cost 2M

$10,000 per PA point in excess of CA. - 200, will cost 2M, charity is important, and i'm a very charitable person



Is he a sugardaddy? Yes or no. - Yes, I imagine it will be very important in the years to come especially if we do make it to the bigger leagues.


Cost: $5 million - Will cost 5M



Total is now 36.5M. I'm a very charitable person, so giving money to charity comes easy for me. Being a sugardaddy will also be very important if we make it to the big leagues.


Manager

Manager name (MUST be fictional) - James Hartson-Harris

Manager PA and CA (1-200)

Cost: $20,000 per CA point - 80, will cost 1.6M

$10,000 per PA point in excess of CA - 200, will cost 2M



Does the manager love the club? It will cost sweetener for him to say yes

Cost: $250,000 if yes; 0 if no Yes, will cost 250K



Contract length (1-5 years). The longer makes it less likely you’ll lose him.

Cost: $100,000 per year. - 5 years, will cost 500K



Total = 40.85M. The manager needs to be a good one, and this guy would be a pretty brilliant manager, i've also hopefully held onto him for a good 5 years. This will leave us with just under 10M for the season, a nice hefty bank balance for a Scottish Division 3 club.

Great idea this Bermy, would LOVE to be apart of this, would still follow even if you don't choose me.

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 15:12
Nep - you don't need to pay for PA in excess of CA. Since the error is in 'bankers favour' no probs.

arkitekt88
09-08-2008, 15:18
Club info:
Your club: Elgin (no reason just picked at random to be honest)
Club reputation: 2,000 (gave an average rep for a club of this size, i want some quality players to come to the club without really high expectations from the fans initially so the manager doesnt get the sack early on)
Cost: £10M
Town’s attraction level: 15 (elgin is a nice place to be and i think the players and staff will enjoy the environment)
Cost: £1.5M

Stadium info
Stadium name: Skoda Field (i drive a skoda lol)
Stadium size: 11,000 (big enough to last a while till division1 so ive gone for durability on this one
Cost: £11M
Average Attendance: 7,500 (gate reciepts are cruicial to any small club trying to make thier name with the help of constant funds)
Cost: £3.75M

Training and youth facilities
Training facilities: 20 (i believe the players should get the best training to succeed in thier maximum potential. a small price to pay for the long run)
Cost: £5M
Youth facilities: 10 (experiance tells me that youth system arnt what their cracked up to be but one should be in place for the benefit of club structure so im on the fence with this one)
Cost: £2.5M

Chairman
Chairman name Ashley Teagle
Chairman stats: CA=120 PA=200
Cost: CA= £3M PA= £1.6M
Is he a sugardaddy? No (i believe this is a bad step to take, can lead to spiraling money troubles and huge bank loans)
Cost: 0

Manager
Manager name: Carl Vasquez ( the manager need experiance to start with to handle these situatuions on and off the field to produce a group of team-working individuals)
Manager PA and CA: CA=100 PA=200
Cost: CA= £2M PA= £1M
Does the manager love the club? (to encourage him to stay if things do go tits up)
Cost: Yes = £250,000
Contract length: 4Years
Cost: £400,000

Cash in the bank / loan debt
Cash: £8M ( enough for club running, wages and introducing new talent to the club)
Loan: none (i believe in staying well away from debt)
(spent = £42M)

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 15:19
The Dragon gives an early verdict on some of the applications so far...

rlipscombe - Your assertion about the desirability of Falkirk proves to me you've never been, and I don't like liars. But if you're willing to pay to bring the area up to scratch, so be it. I'm impressed by your enthusiasm, mathematical skills and financial constraint.

I suggest you catch the train up to Falkirk and go check out your new purchase.

Congratulations.

NepentheZ - Very well laid out plans. I like the cut of your gib already. I'm willing to overlook a small error in your sums.

You are the proud owner of Albion Rovers. Congratulations.

5ergio
09-08-2008, 15:19
BUSINESS PLAN OF MONTROSE FC
by Sercan Cali & Arcana Team


Club info:

Montrose
Reputation: 3500



Cost: 17,5 M



Town’s attraction level: 15


Cost:1,5 M




A higher reputation in 3rd Division will grant a wider range of available players in the initial build up to the league. A higher town attraction is good yet it is not the most desired place to be on this planet. That requires more than we can supply, so it is a hard work. We are foreseeing that the reputation will be around a balance point in the near future, where after it all looks up to the players and the management to perform.

Stadium info

Stadium name (optional)

Stadium size: 6000 capacity - 3000 average attendance - 5500 max

Cost: 6 M seating
1,5 M average attendance.

0,5 M excess max attendance




Stadium name remains unchanged whereas we are planning to own a 6000 seater. An average of 3000 fans will provide a constant cash flow in 3rd division if our assumptions are good enough. Setting a max of 5500 will allow the team gain a boost in derbies and matches against big teams if they ever come to our place. Also with the club's success, we are expecting a rise in average & max attendance. This may even lead us to build a bigger & newer one in the near future. A new one that is well enough to represent a 130 year old club.


Training and youth facilities

Training facilities: 16


Cost: 4 M


Youth facilities: 16


Cost: 4 M




Good facilities will always bring success. We could have started off with lower ones assuming they'll get upgraded but the possibility of getting a star palyer in youth ranks in 2-3 years time looked so appealing. Also the better the training, the higher we are in the table. We do also believe that our fans won't like a lesser facility complex for such a club.

Chairman

Chairman name: Sercan Cali

Chairman stats: 180-180

Cost: 4,5 M



Is he a sugardaddy? No.

Cost: -




A brilliant lad will be on the chair in this beautiful club, believe me. He may not have the extra cash when needed but he has excellent knowledge of football and the desire to own a mighty team. And please don't let the donation of £4,5 million fool you. He is willing to spent more on the team so that it can stand very strongly after long he is gone.

Manager

Manager name: Santi Mengana

Manager PA and CA (1-200): 175-200


Cost: 3,5 M CA
0,25 M excess PA



Does the manager love the club? Yes.


Cost: 0.25 M



Contract length (1-5 years): 5 years.

Cost: 0,5 M




Surely we have to hold onto the manager as long as possible. We love our manager so it is even better if he loves us too. He is very talented despite being not heard all over the world. We have managed to sign a deal with him if we get to manage Montrose. His love for the club is unquestionable and this lead us to a 5 year long contract, which we wish that it will bring us the success we longed for.

Dear Dragon,

In this business plan, we tried to show our enthusiasm and initial plans for Montrose FC. We are planning to make a strong start to the league so that we can keep on building a solid base. It is the well known fact that everyone looks for a team that is brave enough to challenge the Old Firm. They don't need to look around anymore because we are coming.

Thank you.

Financial Sum Up: Firstly we are planning to spend around £19 millions on the reputation and the city we are in. Our stadium is expected to cost around £8 millions and hopefully it will provide us the cash to upgrade it more in the future. Facilities are very important to us so we are planning to spend £8 millions on them. A stunning youth talent will be more than enough to make that money. We believe that our arranged manager is the one we need so we are not so bad about spending £4,5 millions on him. With his talent and our trust in him, we will be successful. Finally I, applying to be the chairman, is willing to donate a sum of £4,5 millions to show people how much I want this opportunity and how good I am at this. All in all, me and my friends in this business plan team decided to spend around a hefty sum of £44 millions in this team and I, as Sercan Cali, am willing to be the chairman of this mighty club.

P.S: Sorry for the dull application at first. I was on a hurry and posted it as soon as I finished my calculations. I hope it looks good now.

P.S.2: Corrected the donation. It was a typo, and the plan should look a bit more better now. Now I had the free time that I didn't yesterday ;)

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 15:25
This is going WAY too fast. :D

Arkitekt and 5ergio, while the Dragon appreciates your enthusiasm, some more details around your plans would be appreciated before your application can be seriously considered.

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
09-08-2008, 15:30
This is going WAY too fast. :D

Arkitekt and 5ergio, while the Dragon appreciates your enthusiasm, some more details around your plans would be appreciated before your application can be seriously considered.


My application is now filled out and is listed above. :thup:

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 15:30
PaulHartman71 - Again I like your enthusiasm, but just not your maths. While there may be a small misunderstanding over the cost of PA (you only need to pay for points greater than CA) you inability to add 15 million + 2 million for club info is deeply unimpressive.

Your plans however are well constructed. The Dragon is willing to provide funding in the amount of 49.5 million. You are incurring a 500,000 penalty for that shocking adding error.

However, congratulations, you are now owner of Forfar Athletic.

PaulHartman71
09-08-2008, 15:32
That error was probably to do with my constant editing and changes made during I was doing the form, yet I admit to the very silly error, and I am delighted that you have taken me on board :thup:

~Ian~
09-08-2008, 15:32
Are there any spaces left/for which clubs?

I'm interested, but it's a lot of work to do if I might not get a team.

Ulti
09-08-2008, 15:38
Hmm Stranraer promoted this year. Looking for alternative!

arkitekt88
09-08-2008, 15:39
This is going WAY too fast. :D

Arkitekt and 5ergio, while the Dragon appreciates your enthusiasm, some more details around your plans would be appreciated before your application can be seriously considered.

edited my post, love the idea

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 15:39
Walcott's Wonderkids - You might wish to explain to the Dragon why you believe there to be more than one? You may also wish to explain how you figure that an attraction level of 5 should cost you $1 million, not $500k?

Aside from these issues, your plan looks excellent. I am particulrly impressed by your ideas regarding developing your youth prospects. As such, I am willing to overlook these aberations.

Congratulations. You are the owner of Stranraer.

NepentheZ
09-08-2008, 15:40
Nep - you don't need to pay for PA in excess of CA. Since the error is in 'bankers favour' no probs.


I'm a tad confused. I'm not paying it in excess. I thought I had to buy my P.A and C.A seperate?

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
09-08-2008, 15:43
Walcott's Wonderkids - You might wish to explain to the Dragon why you believe there to be more than one? You may also wish to explain how you figure that an attraction level of 5 should cost you $1 million, not $500k?

Aside from these issues, your plan looks excellent. I am particulrly impressed by your ideas regarding developing your youth prospects. As such, I am willing to overlook these aberations.

Congratulations. You are the owner of Stranraer.


Yeah realised my error in paying too much for town attractiveness about 2 minutes before you posted, doh! :D

Apologies Dragon, I just presumed you would have lessor dragons accompanying you when listening to my bid. ;)

Thanks for accepting the proposal, this idea looks great, looking forward to it already. :thup:

NepentheZ
09-08-2008, 15:43
Anyway, I've just edited it (is that allowed >?? :D ) - so now the sums are correct. It wasn't an "error" as such. more a misunderstanding. I don't think it was very clear, tbph. I get it now though. I buy 200 CA points, so needn't spend money on P/A as I'm maxed out ;)

glennuk
09-08-2008, 15:43
Berwick Rangers Business Plan.
Presented by Glenn Crane

Club Choice and General Information

Club - Berwick Rangers
Club Rep - 3,000 (£15,000,000)
Town Attraction - 15 (£1,500,000)

Reasoning - Having lived in Berwick i know that although the town attraction may not be amazing the plans for the club are improving year upon year.
This is my first team choice and only choice, i feel Berwick with the money invested in them will become a force to be reckoned with, they may not be the biggest clubs, the town may not be the most attractive but with your Money we WILL Succeed.

Stadium Choice and General Information.

Stadium Name - Berwicks Base Arena
Stadium Size - 8,000 seats ( £8,000,000)
7,500 Average attendance ( £3,750,000)
0 "Fair Weather" fans ( £0.00)

Reasoning - The stadium has been built to the size of the fan base. The third division doesn't attract the most fans, but the fans that do turn up are die hard, and are used to their usual seats, so i see no point in expanding the stadium when the fans wont be there to to see Berwick win.



Training and youth facilities

Training facilities 1 (£250,000)
Youth facilities 10 (£2,500,000)
Reasoning - Ok so we train in the cow fields, and occasionally get a chance to run around a local athletics track and go to Big Johns Gym.
But the YOUTH IS OUR FUTURE.


Chairman

Chairman name - Glenn Crane
Chairman stats: CA - 200 (£5,000,000)
Is he a sugardaddy? Yes ( £5,000,000)
Reasoning - The chairman is a nice fellow who likes to do some charity stunts, not only did he denote money but the pie lover ran around berwicks lovable athletics track wearing only a Special "Big Johns Gym Spandex Suit".



Manager

Manager name - Josh Crane (Chairmens son ey)

Manager CA 150 (£3,000,000) PA 200 (£500,000)

Does the manager love the club? Yes (£250,000)

Contract length - 5 years (£500,000)
Reasoning - The young lad a pie lover like his old man has been given a long contract by the chairmen and has been told that he needs to prove himself, whilst already a very capable man, he still has room to improve and with his dad giving him all the money he needs the youngster is looking forward to starting his management career.

Total Spent - £45,250,000
Total Left - £4,750,000

I Wait for your reply in anticipation Dragon and hope this will be a long and productive relationship between our two parties.

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 15:44
I'm a tad confused. I'm not paying it in excess. I thought I had to buy my P.A and C.A seperate?

If you're maxing out CA, PA costs you nothing.
But say you have 100 CA and 200 PA, you need to pay for 100 (being the excess) * 10,000 for that.

NepentheZ
09-08-2008, 15:45
Anyway, I've just edited it (is that allowed >?? :D ) - so now the sums are correct. It wasn't an "error" as such. more a misunderstanding. I don't think it was very clear, tbph. I get it now though. I buy 200 CA points, so needn't spend money on P/A as I'm maxed out ;)

Yea I got that, thanks B. Just hope I'm allowed to edit it ?

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 15:45
Can someone VERY quickly post me a list of all the Div 3 teams please?

NepentheZ
09-08-2008, 15:46
Albion Rovers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion_Rovers_F.C._%28Scotland%29)
Annan Athletic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annan_Athletic_F.C.)
Berwick Rangers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwick_Rangers_F.C.)1
Cowdenbeath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowdenbeath_F.C.)
Dumbarton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbarton_F.C.)
East Stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Stirlingshire_F.C.)
Elgin City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_City_F.C.)
Forfar Athletic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forfar_Athletic_F.C.)
Montrose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montrose_F.C.)
Stenhousemuir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenhousemuir_F.C.)

glennuk
09-08-2008, 15:47
Albion Rovers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion_Rovers_F.C._%28Scotland%29)
Annan Athletic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annan_Athletic_F.C.)
Berwick Rangers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwick_Rangers_F.C.)1
Cowdenbeath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowdenbeath_F.C.)
Dumbarton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbarton_F.C.)
East Stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Stirlingshire_F.C.)
Elgin City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_City_F.C.)
Forfar Athletic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forfar_Athletic_F.C.)
Montrose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montrose_F.C.)
Stenhousemuir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenhousemuir_F.C.)

Oops Nepz beat me :( and used same copy and paste as me :P

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 15:47
Thanks

Oh hold on - for last season.

Ulti
09-08-2008, 15:51
Can we confirm were using teams from last season? i'm putting an application in for Stranraer but there in div 2 this season.

PaulHartman71
09-08-2008, 15:52
Stamraer have been taken iirc

NepentheZ
09-08-2008, 15:54
East Fife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Fife_F.C.)
Stranraer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranraer_F.C.)
Montrose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montrose_F.C.)
Arbroath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbroath_F.C.)
Stenhousemuir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenhousemuir_F.C.)
Elgin City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_City_F.C.)
Albion Rovers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion_Rovers_F.C.)
Dumbarton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbarton_F.C.)
East Stirlingshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Stirlingshire_F.C.)
Forfar Athletic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forfar_Athletic_F.C.)

glennuk
09-08-2008, 15:54
Anyway you can edit the teams to make it this years teams?

Either that or i think berwick are in div 2.

or do i have to change my beloved team?

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 16:00
Berwick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Fife_F.C.) Rangers / East Fife - (glennuk)
Stranraer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranraer_F.C.) - Walcott's Wonderkids
Montrose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montrose_F.C.) - (5ergio)
Arbroath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbroath_F.C.)
Stenhousemuir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenhousemuir_F.C.) - Bermy
Elgin City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_City_F.C.) - (arkitekt88)
Albion Rovers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion_Rovers_F.C.) - NepentheZ
Dumbarton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbarton_F.C.)
East Stirlingshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Stirlingshire_F.C.) - rlipscombe
Forfar Athletic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forfar_Athletic_F.C.) - PaulHartman71

This is how it stands. I need to review the applications in brackets. Only Arbroath and Dumbarton left...

arkitekt88
09-08-2008, 16:00
i edited my application btw

glennuk
09-08-2008, 16:01
Ok if i cant have Berwick then east fife will do

~Ian~
09-08-2008, 16:05
I'm going to prepare an application for Arbroath now. :thup:

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 16:07
i edited my application btw

A fine effort it is too, arkitekt. You appear to have made the error of many by miscalculating the cost of PA. While the Dragondoesn't make errors, it's possible the wording was ambiguous so no penalty there. Your plans look solid, and I admire your negative view of Club debt.

Congratulations. Consider yourself the owner of Elgin.

Tilla
09-08-2008, 16:10
Club info:

* Your club (MUST be a real Scottish Div 3 club) = Cowdenbeath - hoping to bring the people of cowndenbeath great job oppotunitys and help them away from their coal mining era
* Club reputation (1-10,000). - 4,000
o Cost: $5,000 per point. (ie max of 10,000 will cost all $50 million) = 4000x5000 = 20000 = 49,997,000
* Town’s attraction level (1-20)- 20
o Cost: $100,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $2 million) = 49,997,000 - 2000000 = 47,997,000

I beleive that the town attraction will help the club bring in the quality players we need to bring in the players we need to propel us up to the dizzy heights of the SPL once we get i believe that our rep would have improve to then help us get into the champions league.


Stadium info

* Stadium name (optional)
* Stadium size
o Cost: 1,000 per seat, and a further
o 500 per fan of your average attendance to represent advertising costs.
o 200 per ‘fair weather’ fan included in maximum attendance in excess of average (this is for the 'max attendance' figure; it doesn't have to be more than the average attendance)

Stadium Size 10,000 suitable size and will help rejuvinate the area providing plenty of jobs for the local people
Average Attendance: 7,500 wont be able to fill the straight away(so i went for 3/4) but during our climb this will improve i feel
fair weather fans 0

10000000+3,750,000 =13,750,000 47,997,000-13,750,000 = 34247000

Training and youth facilities

* Training facilities (1-20) 10
o Cost: $250,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $5 million)
* Youth facilities (1-20) 20
o Cost: $250,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $5 million)

My main aim here is develop for the future and the area of cowdenbeath i believe with these fantastic youth facilities more of the local kids will get to play for the dream club and training facilites i will invest in once the club is raking in the money.

34247000-7000000=27247000



Chairman

* Chairman name (this is ‘you’) Joshua Tyler
* Chairman stats: PA and CA only (1-200) – your charity donation will be
o Cost: $25,000 per CA point (ie max of 200 will cost $5 million)
o $10,000 per PA point in excess of CA. PA CA 200
* Is he a sugardaddy? Yes or no.
o Cost: $5 million no

2724700 - 5000000 = 2224700

i am amazing this is why you should invest in me

Manager

* Manager name (MUST be fictional) Luke McSkywalker
* Manager PA and CA (1-200) CA 100 PA 200 200,000+400000= 600000
o Cost: $20,000 per CA point
o $10,000 per PA point in excess of CA
* Does the manager love the club? It will cost sweetener for him to say yes
o Cost: $250,000 if yes; 0 if no yes
* Contract length (1-5 years). The longer makes it less likely you’ll lose him.
o Cost: $100,000 per year. 5 years
Young lad from the area want to give him his chance manager of my young lads football team took them to league and cup double, got a promising future ahead of him want to keep him as long as possible

600,000+250,000+500,000 1,125,000
2224700 - 1125000 = 1119700 left over if im right which i hope so :P

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 16:12
5ergio - Somehow you have arrived at the correct total despit an apparent attempt to swindle the Dragon by stating that your chairman should donate only $4 million to charity, not the $4.5 million required. I trust, however, that this was a typing error.

You application is very strong and shows some different ideas. I think you could do well with my money.

Congratulations, you're the owner of Montrose.

O\'Hara_fan
09-08-2008, 16:14
Club info:

* Your club (MUST be a real Scottish Div 3 club) Dumbarton - Dumbarton are a team which are real under achievers, they can and should be in the top flight
* Club reputation (1-10,000).
o Cost: $5,000 per point. (ie max of 10,000 will cost all $50 million) I will opt for 300 rep points. Keeps a bit in the bag. Therefore it costs 1,500,000 quid
* Town’s attraction level (1-20)
o Cost: £2 million pounds, a positive town equals more fans and more money

Stadium info

* Stadium name - Dumbarton Arena
* Stadium size
o Cost: 6,000,000 - More crowds equals more pay in return, A capacity of 6,000 also lets the more Dumbartians get in
Average Attendance - 6,000. Which I believe equates to 3,000,000 quid. A full stadium give players more motivation to play better for the fans
0 Fair weather fans


Training and youth facilities

* Training facilities (1-20)
o Cost: 2,000,000. A good training facility means better trained players
* Youth facilities (1-20)
o Cost: 2,000,000 once again. Better youth secures our future as it means we will have to spend less on buying from over clubs.

Chairman

* Chairman name : I am called Mr. Ryan Gault
* Chairman stats: PA and CA only (1-200) – your charity donation will be £6,000,000. Gotta love the charity
o Cost: 2,500,000 quids worth of CA. Thats 100
o 1,000,000 quid worth of PA. Thats also 100.
* Is he a sugardaddy? Yes or no.
o no, it is unnecessary money that I could save without.


Manager

* Manager name :My trusted manager is my fictional brother Scott Gault
* Manager PA and CA (1-200)
o Cost: 150, 3,000,000 quids worth. A good manager will be good for a progressing club.
o 150, 1,500,000 quids worth.
* Does the manager love the club? It will cost sweetener for him to say yes
o Cost: Yes, its important that change does not happen frequently.
* Contract length (1-5 years). The longer makes it less likely you’ll lose him.
o Cost: £400,000 quid, we want to keep him.

My estimates come to £28,050,000. So that leaves us with plenty of spare cash left around for transfers etc.
Dragons, I hope you say yes and thanks for your time.

robbo3d
09-08-2008, 16:14
Club info:

Your club: *Originally Dumbarton but i was slightly too late in submitting - please consider me for any team available*

Club reputation: 3000 (Cost: £15mill)


Cost: $5,000 per point. (ie max of 10,000 will cost all $50 million)


Town’s attraction level 15 (Cost £1.5m)


Cost: $100,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $2 million)



This will provide the foundation for the club to progress. These are high enough to allow the club to compete to sign the best players available. Any higher than this would be unsuitable as i anticipate that the clubs reputation will rise as it is promoted through the leagues. This is high enough for the current division.
The town attraction is sufficient to be more appealing than the majority of Scottish towns and will also enable the club to be more appealing to potential targets.

Stadium info

Stadium name (optional)
Stadium size20,000 (Cost £20mill)

Cost: 1,000 per seat, and a further
500 per fan of your average attendance 18000 (Cost £9m)

200 per ‘fair weather’ fan included in maximum attendance 23000 (Cost £1m)

This is the main part of my proposal. I intend to have a large ground and fan base as i anticipate that this will provide the club with a large future income. A ground this size will bring in over £5million a season and will allow the club to progress in the future as it will have sufficient money to expand. The average and maximum attendances are needed for the same reason as they will provide the club with a large income stream and potential for future growth.


Training and youth facilities

Training facilities 8 (Cost £2m)


Cost: $250,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $5 million)


Youth facilities 1 (Cost £0.25m)


Cost: $250,000 per point (ie max of 20 will cost $5 million)



My pitch is focussed on securing the club a sound financial footing in years ahead. This will allow the club to purchase some of the best talent available and as a result, the youth facilities are of lesser importance. I also expect the financial position of the club in the future to allow for improvements in this area if needed. The training facilities are up to a respectable standard for the current division.

Chairman

Chairman name David Robinson

Chairman stats: CA 180 PA 200 (Cost £4.7m)


Cost: $25,000 per CA point (ie max of 200 will cost $5 million)
$10,000 per PA point in excess of CA.


Is he a sugardaddy? Yes (Cost £5m)


Cost: $5 million



To ensure the long term success of the club, a good chairman is needed in order to make the right decisions in the future. These include managerial appointments and dismissals, ground expansions and training/youth upgrades. A chairman of this standard should ensure that the club is able to progress up the football ladder.
A suggar daddy chairman makes further resources available to the club and i expect the £5million spent to me recouped in years ahead. This will prove to be a sound investment in the future as it will ensure that any financial difficulties are prevented and sufficient money for transfers is available. It will allow the club to compete at the top level for players and gives us a clear advantage over the competition.

Manager

Manager name Nikon Jevtic

Manager PA and CA CA 50 PA 100 (Cost £1.5m)


Cost: $20,000 per CA point
$10,000 per PA point in excess of CA


Does the manager love the club? No


Cost: $250,000 if yes; 0 if no


Contract length (1-5 years). 1yr (Cost £0.1m)


Cost: $100,000 per year.



I see the manager as being the least essential aspect as the ability of the chairman will allow future managers that are appointed to be of higher ability. My intention in giving the manager a one year contract and is that he will not be at the club the following season and a better manager will be brought in. I feel that your money is better spent elsewhere and as such i have limited my spending in this area.
Cash in the bank / loan debt

Anything you have left over is cash in the bank, which you probably need to strengthen the squad. You can also borrow some cash in excess of the total $50 million budget, subject to the below.
If you go over budget, you will start with loan debt of double that amount, payable over 10 years.

Total spend: £60.05mill

I have went over budget and by around £10million an this will lead to a loan of £20million payable over 10 seasons. I feel the club can cope sufficiently with loan repayments of around £2million a season as the income through gate receipts combined with a suggar daddy chairman will ensure there is always money available.

One final point, as this is an experiment, i wanted to be different from others in order that the different teams are under a host of different circumstances

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 16:18
Glennuk - a quality application, which contains no errors and plenty of much appreciated praise for the Dragon. Just don't get too matey. This is business.

Despite you feeling that running round a public park is sufficient training facilities for your team, such is your enthusiasm that you are now the proud owner of Berwick Rangers. (East Fife are promoted by default).

Tilla
09-08-2008, 16:19
Gah! so cowdenbeath arnt in league 3 :(

Any other team will do who are left :(

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 16:22
Well we now appear to be oversubscribed.

Tilla, Cowdenbeath aren't on the list - if you could have another think about the team please.

No more applications at the moment please (although if you're typing one go ahead and post. The Dragon will retire for several hours and consider the best of the remaining applications.

glennuk
09-08-2008, 16:24
Glennuk - a quality application, which contains no errors and plenty of much appreciated praise for the Dragon. Just don't get too matey. This is business.

Despite you feeling that running round a public park is sufficient training facilities for your team, such is your enthusiasm that you are now the proud owner of Berwick Rangers. (East Fife are promoted by default).

Yes Sir Whatever you say Sir.

Come on Berwick :)

Tilla
09-08-2008, 16:24
Arbroath - will i have to do another application let me know asap

~Ian~
09-08-2008, 16:30
Good evening Dragon, I'm Ian and I am looking for your investment and knowledge to help me turn the ideas and enthusiasm I have for Arbroath FC into a reality, to help them become an established and successful club in the higher tiers of Scottish football.

Club info:
Your club: Arbroath
Club reputation: 4,000
Cost: $20million
Town’s attraction level: 15
Cost: $1.5million

I believe that our best approach is to go for immedioate growth, which in turn will pave the way for long-term benefits. Thus, I think it will pay off to make Arbroath a prosperous and attractive location, to encourage and not just new players to join, but also to build up a larger fanbase.
Total - $21.5million

Stadium info
Stadium name: The Battleground
Stadium size: 7,500
Cost: 1,000 per seat: $7.5million
and a further 500 per fan of your average attendance to represent advertising costs: $3.75million
200 per ‘fair weather’ fan included in maximum attendance in excess of average (this is for the 'max attendance' figure; it doesn't have to be more than the average attendance) Zero

The name The Battleground will encourage a fighting spirit amongst the players, and the fans will get behind the players' determination and team mentality.
Total - $32.75million

Training and youth facilities
Training facilities: 14
Cost: $250,000 per point: $3.5million
Youth facilities: 14
Cost: $250,000 per point: $3.5million

Good facilities will be needed for each, and these figures should give us an advantage from the start, and provide a good point to improve on in the future.
Total - $39.75million

Chairman
Chairman name: Ian Bryant
Chairman stats: PA - 120, CA - 120
Cost: $25,000 per CA point: $3million
$10,000 per PA point in excess of CA: Zero
Is he a sugardaddy? Yes
Cost: $5 million

The chairman is decent, and he's also generous with his cash. Not all of his decisions will be perfect, but he has the wealth to back up his choices.
Total - $47.75million

Manager
Manager name: Matt Skiba
Manager PA and CA: PA - 100, CA - 100
Cost: $20,000 per CA point: $2million
$10,000 per PA point in excess of CA: Zero
Does the manager love the club? No
Cost: $250,000 if yes; Zero
Contract length (1-5 years): Two
Cost: $100,000 per year: $200,000

Obviously we hope he'll do well, but his contract is not going to be too long in case of failure, in which case the chairman would like to move in a new candidate.
Total - $49.95million

This leaves just $50,000 in the bank. However, we believe that to win big, you have to spend big. We think our strategy will lead to much success on the pitch and great financial figures in the accounts over the coming years.

rlipscombe
09-08-2008, 17:12
i'm glad you appreciated my pitch bermybhoy, and i am delighted you excepted my proposal. Falkirk may not be great now, but once they have a team they truly believe in, you watch the place bloom!! ;)

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 17:28
Robbo3d - I like your application. You have some real guts to do something different by building a massive stadium and taking on all that debt. It's going to add something very different to this contest.

Consider yourself the new high heid yin of Dumbarton.

~Ian~ - I don't know why you think it's clever to make the Dragon spend 10 minutes searching for a character in your name on his keyboard? ~~~~~ Time is money.

Despite the lateness of your application, I appreciate the quality of it, and the fact that it all added up first time. As such, you are the new owner of Arbroath.

Tilla and O'Hara Fan - What can the Dragon say? While he would love to finance your ambitious plans, the 3rd division simply isn't big enough to cope. Your plans unfortunately fell down on some baffling errors in your calculations of your business plans. I'm not sure you're ready just yet to own a club. However, best of luck next time. If there's any changes to our plans that create more space, I'll let you know and give you a chance to rectify your errors. Sorry again.

O\'Hara_fan
09-08-2008, 17:32
Oh, maybe you could then expand it into some other league simlar the the third division

NepentheZ
09-08-2008, 17:47
I know this is only 10 teams, and its first come first serve, but the Dragon really should have considered the potential stability and activity of the current Chairmen. Its all well and good the Dragon giving these men their shot, but when they take his money and don't show up at the board meetings, it could get a little lonely in the Den.

robbo3d
09-08-2008, 18:03
I would like to thank the Dragon for the opportunity and assure him that I will continue to be actively involved in the project. It was a big risk on both our parts to agree to my proposal and i wish to repay your good faith with my continued presence and active involvement.

NepentheZ
09-08-2008, 18:24
Great to hear, robbo3d. I'm not specifically aiming that at anyone, but I've seen stuff like this before. A great sign up gets ruined by people flooding in to sign up, and then completely forgetting about it.

pcmeister
09-08-2008, 19:21
Damn. This looks a great challenge. If only I had looked here earlier then I might actually be playing. Oh well. I will watch on with interest

rlipscombe
09-08-2008, 20:12
i for onw dragon, will be here for the long haul. this is worthy of my attention.

GazTheDoood
09-08-2008, 20:44
Great idea bermy, pity i was on holiday when this opened.

I will be following with interest anyway, however.

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
09-08-2008, 20:47
I reckon most of us 10 will be hanging abut for this sign up a long time - there's at least 7 or 8 who are either regulars or semi-regulars on the forum of late so it shouldn't be a problem.

The bonus about the Scots 3rd Div is that no-one can get relegated so there won't be an issue at the end of the season of 1 or 2 of us falling out of the playable leagues, reducing the numbers further.

I suppose the only way around adding more people would have been to put all of us in Div 2 then any extras in Div 3, but then that might affect the way in which people had assigned their money, so leaving as it is is probably the best situation for now.

PaulHartman71
09-08-2008, 20:49
I agree with WW, if people do drop-out, then you could have a reserve list going for anyone else wishing to join.

jod123
09-08-2008, 21:21
It is a pity I did not see this earlier. Could you put me on a reserve list as I would like to sign up if any opportunity arises in the future?

Ulti
09-08-2008, 21:35
Good luck with this challenge! I tried to get an app in but I just wasn't quick enough. Lots of interest though so bodes well for the challenge!

If you do decide to have a reserve list please pop me on it, i'll be monitoring the thread anyway :)

~Ian~
09-08-2008, 22:56
Personally, I'm wondering which Dragon in particular is Bermy based on? I'm imagine him as Scottish like Duncan Bannatyne.

badgerwhacker
09-08-2008, 23:32
Hello people. I'm not a regular on here and so I'm a bit miffed about how you're going to go about this. Does bermybhoy sim on his pc or what?

I would have fancied a go of this myself but obviously can't now. Great idea though.

Whoopy D
09-08-2008, 23:33
Another TV show based sign-up :rolleyes:

Seriously though fantastic idea, gutted I slept through the whole of the signing up process ( curse living on the other side of the world :mad: )

I'll be following despite not being involved to see how this turns out, should be good :thup:


Hello people. I'm not a regular on here and so I'm a bit miffed about how you're going to go about this. Does bermybhoy sim on his pc or what?

I would have fancied a go of this myself but obviously can't now. Great idea though.

Yes he holidays through the game and updates the participants as to how the game goes, its what we refer to as a sign-up, there are plenty of them around the forum. So now when you stumble across another one, no confusion :thup:

PaulHartman71
09-08-2008, 23:42
Hello people. I'm not a regular on here and so I'm a bit miffed about how you're going to go about this. Does bermybhoy sim on his pc or what?

I would have fancied a go of this myself but obviously can't now. Great idea though.

he sims it, gives us 'updates' including analysis, screen-shots etc, then we give feedback on how our player/manager/club is getting along.

Welcome to the Challenges/Sign-Ups and Experiments Forum :thup:

(we don't have a welcome back, so I suggest you go into the social group part of the website, and you'll find ours is the one with the most members and comments, join up and become a part of the community ;))

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 23:51
I know this is only 10 teams, and its first come first serve, but the Dragon really should have considered the potential stability and activity of the current Chairmen. Its all well and good the Dragon giving these men their shot, but when they take his money and don't show up at the board meetings, it could get a little lonely in the Den.

Indeed, but quite what more I could have done though short of inviting people through PM's, I'm not sure. Theres no SIGN-UP!!!!! in the title and it required at least 5-10 minutes work and the use of a calculaor (probably) from everyone to get their application in, so hopefully it means everyone here is in it for the long haul. In the end I've unfortunately had to use an entirely arbitrary method of cutting people out as there's inevitably too many. And to be fair, the majority are regulars anyway.

If this works well perhaps we can try it another time with more people in a bigger league.

bermybhoy
09-08-2008, 23:59
I suppose the only way around adding more people would have been to put all of us in Div 2 then any extras in Div 3, but then that might affect the way in which people had assigned their money, so leaving as it is is probably the best situation for now.

Almost exactly what I was thinking. There's not an obvious way to 'treat' the other division, and it would make the results less clear with so many edited teams flying around.


I agree with WW, if people do drop-out, then you could have a reserve list going for anyone else wishing to join.

I'll keep a note of them, but TBH I can't think immedately of a way to adding other people in. I don't want to go down the route of editing this once it's set up. In any case, I've never ever used an in-game editor.

PaulHartman71
10-08-2008, 00:05
And i'm not to sure you can edit everything that was on the business application

bermybhoy
10-08-2008, 00:21
You're almost certainly right, and you wouldn't want to go re-setting team reps and so on mid season.

If there's a strong call from the Dragon's apprentices to assign stats to their manager and/or chairman I guess it could be done. What's the concensus? Otherwise it'll be random.

Oh, and I'll post my team's choices tomorrow.

PaulHartman71
10-08-2008, 00:22
Just wondering Bermy, what are the time difference between England and Bermuda?

bermybhoy
10-08-2008, 00:23
4 hours is the time difference. Grr limits.

PaulHartman71
10-08-2008, 00:26
so over in Bermuda it's 5.26AM or 9.26PM?

bermybhoy
10-08-2008, 00:29
I'm not a complete insomniac :)

We're further west (kinda off the coast of America) therefore we're behind. It's about 9.30 pm.

PaulHartman71
10-08-2008, 00:33
oh, your evening is just beginning while everyone other here is either asleep, drunk or having to drink coffee to stay awake :D

bermybhoy
10-08-2008, 11:59
The Dragon is of course curious as to how he'd compare to the young upstarts and as such is willing to play with a further 50million of his vast fortune at Stenhousemuir.

Club info
Our reputation will be 3,200. This is hopefully comparable to bigger teams and eclipses most of out peers in the division. There's only so attractive you can make Stenny, so that's been stuck at 12, hopefully not a decision that comes back to haunt me. That's costing $17.2m.

Stadium info
We're going to be paying at a purpose built stadium called El Paradiso. The capacity is 11,000 and we have 10,000 from the local area who will be sure to show up every week. I'm banking on our success leading to it filling each week soon enough and eventual expansion. Cost: $16m

Training
Something's gotta give, and it's here. Youth of 1 and training of 8. Hopefully they'll be upgraded on the back of our stunning on-field success. Cost: $2.25m

Chairman
Bermy Bhoy is going to look after the club. He has CA and PA of 200. He'll improve the club no end. Oh, and he's a sugar daddy of course. Cost: $10m

Manager
A Swedish guy know only as Henke. He'll end his playing career to join us on a two year deal, with a PA and CA of 150. Hopefully he'll extend it, if not, hopefully the chairman can appoint someone even better. Cost: $3.2m

Total overall: $48.65m. Cash in the bank: $1.35m

PaulHartman71
10-08-2008, 12:03
The Dragon has certainly played a risky game there ;)

bermybhoy
10-08-2008, 12:12
How do we reckon this is all going to pan out? I have a feeling the club(s) promoted the first season will do well, maybe those from the second as well. After that any team not promoted might become mired down there. It probably depends on getting a manager who actually recognises that he needs to sign a whole team of players, pronto. If anyone goes in with a load of greys or youth players, they'll be in bother.

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
10-08-2008, 12:14
I reckon that if none of our clubs have players at the start of the game, then my Stranraer with perfect youth facilities could have an early advantage as I should have the best base of youth regens automatically assigned to the clubs, meaning I won't have to spend alot to buy in players. :) :thup:

PaulHartman71
10-08-2008, 12:15
I think that anyone could be promoted tbh, it really depends on if the managers sign anyone or not

robbo3d
10-08-2008, 12:22
Obviously, the first season will depend on who each of the clubs sign. Each of the clubs are in a position where almost any signings will improve the quality of their starting eleven so it could be a case where quantity of signings is better than quality. A team that signs a full squad of average players will probably do better than one that signs 3/4 quality players and then uses the youth team/greys.

In further years, teams will have a chance to assemble a squad of players and the ability of the manager/chairman will come into play along with reputation and finances available.

glennuk
10-08-2008, 13:50
I think Berwick will have the ability to do well in this challenge during the first season and with a decent youth setup i think they will bring some quality regens into the game.

Also i think that the next best team would be Albion Rovers with a very sturdy business plan.

Looking forward to the first update.

Do you know how often they will be? Every season? Half season? Month?

Adam C
10-08-2008, 14:01
can't believe i missed this :(
great idea though, if there's a reserve list, sign me up.

bermybhoy
10-08-2008, 14:02
I think every half season or so, maybe after the transfer windows would make sense, then probably more often for the run in as things get tense. The interest for me here is in the long term outcomes, so I don't see the point in slowing it down by doing too many updates.

After reading Neji's thread I've realised I didn't even think about making youth academies an option :(

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
10-08-2008, 14:14
I think every half season or so, maybe after the transfer windows would make sense, then probably more often for the run in as things get tense. The interest for me here is in the long term outcomes, so I don't see the point in slowing it down by doing too many updates.

After reading Neji's thread I've realised I didn't even think about making youth academies an option :(


Oh yeah, was thinking about that when designing my youth centre team.

If it is possible and the others wouldn't mind, as my club is the only one that is specificially designed around youth players and bringing them through, I would be willing to pay upto £5m of my remaining balance to have the youth academy box ticked.

(Think about it more as an aid to the experiment). :) :thup:

~Ian~
10-08-2008, 14:18
I think the teams with the best reputation and attractiveness will probably do the best first season. They'll be able to get the best players to join, and while the clubs with good youth facilities will get some talented youngsters, they won't have their experience or development.

Also, I think the clubs with really talented managers may not do as well as expected. By January or February, when other leagues start seeing managers getting fired, as top class managers at small clubs they'll be prime targets to get poached, and who knows how good or bad their replacements may be?

bermybhoy
10-08-2008, 14:24
Oh yeah, was thinking about that when designing my youth centre team.

If it is possible and the others wouldn't mind, as my club is the only one that is specificially designed around youth players and bringing them through, I would be willing to pay upto £5m of my remaining balance to have the youth academy box ticked.

(Think about it more as an aid to the experiment). :) :thup:

Oh tricky one. It's moving the goalposts, so I think it's only fair to throw it out there to everyone else. The issue is that people with less money left over don't really have it as an option without going into debt, and they might have changed things around had it been an option at the start.

Any opinions on WW's suggestion?

glennuk
10-08-2008, 14:28
I woulda liked a youth academy to be honest, but would be over budget now, and need a lil bit of cash to spend on players.
But if possible i would change my managers CA and then get the academy.

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
10-08-2008, 14:35
Actually to be fair, it wouldn't be right to change the stuff now anyway - other people may have gone for different approaches if it had been an option.

So don't worry about it, hopefully my chairman will get Stranraer one anyay! :D

bermybhoy
10-08-2008, 14:55
Actually to be fair, it wouldn't be right to change the stuff now anyway - other people may have gone for different approaches if it had been an option.

So don't worry about it, hopefully my chairman will get Stranraer one anyay! :D

Yeah I think you're right. Besides I've edited a couple of these already so it saves me going back ;)

I'm trying to think of ways to involve more people in this. I came up with an interesting 'share trading' theme but it would get horribly, horribly complex. :D

bermybhoy
11-08-2008, 03:57
Right; have set this up but there's a couple of obvious problems.

First, Nep: it doesn't like you having quite so much cash. I tried reducing it to £10m and that worked. As such I can leave it as is (with original decisions but £10m cash), or you can make some minor amendments if you want.

Secondly, the 'sugar daddy' option appears to REALLY take mick...everyone who selected it is given a massive opening balance. It really wouldn't be fair on the others. Thus, could everyone who selected it please go back and take it out. Again, make other amendments if you wish, or just leave an extra £5m cash, up to you. This applies to me, ~Ian~, Robbo3d, gleenuk and paulhartman71.

Finally, Robbo3d, it doesn't like your level of debt - it wasn't being picked up. This might just be the effect of the sugar daddy that you can't have massive debt. Either way, could you reduce this please by cutting something else as well. Maybe to about £5m debt, and I'll see if that works.

Sorry chaps - there was bound to be teething problems ;)

roberto922
11-08-2008, 05:18
Damn I've missed out :( oh well, I'll be watching this closely :thup:

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
11-08-2008, 07:08
Right; have set this up but there's a couple of obvious problems.

First, Nep: it doesn't like you having quite so much cash. I tried reducing it to £10m and that worked. As such I can leave it as is (with original decisions but £10m cash), or you can make some minor amendments if you want.

Secondly, the 'sugar daddy' option appears to REALLY take mick...everyone who selected it is given a massive opening balance. It really wouldn't be fair on the others. Thus, could everyone who selected it please go back and take it out. Again, make other amendments if you wish, or just leave an extra £5m cash, up to you. This applies to me, ~Ian~, Robbo3d, gleenuk and paulhartman71.

Finally, Robbo3d, it doesn't like your level of debt - it wasn't being picked up. This might just be the effect of the sugar daddy that you can't have massive debt. Either way, could you reduce this please by cutting something else as well. Maybe to about £5m debt, and I'll see if that works.

Sorry chaps - there was bound to be teething problems ;)


Well, I can't speak for the others but being one of the ones without a sugardaddy, it doesn't bother me that the others have a huge bank balance - surely we all knew what the effect that that was going to have on those clubs.

I say let them keep the sugardaddy status. :thup:

rlipscombe
11-08-2008, 08:47
i don't have sugar daddy either... as for myself, i don't mind too much regarding it. i knew when i didn't have it what the consequences would be. i take it we're talking stupid money....

bermybhoy
11-08-2008, 10:17
i don't have sugar daddy either... as for myself, i don't mind too much regarding it. i knew when i didn't have it what the consequences would be. i take it we're talking stupid money....

We're talking about £20m in the bank for the person who should have a loan...up to you guys really. If you want to just leave it and we can restart or adjust it next time if it gets out of hand?

I'd have made it a more expensive option if I'd really known the results.

glennuk
11-08-2008, 10:32
I would say to get it started take it off everyone and just give them the extra 5 mil to play with in the bank.

Would be better that way. Unless of course you want to leave whoever did the best app to have a sugar daddy (Which could be you of course dragon)

If we do have to change it though let me know and i will think of where best to invest the money.

PaulHartman71
11-08-2008, 11:05
I don't mind getting rid of the sugar daddy and having the extra 5M in the bank

~Ian~
11-08-2008, 12:57
If sugar daddy is being taken away, then for Arbroath, I would like these changes

Managers CA and PA both increased from 100 to 125 - A cost of $500,000
Chairmans CA and PA both increased from 120 to 160 - A cost of $1million
Stadium and avreage attendance increased from 7,50 to 8,500 - A cost of $1.5million

The additional $2million will go in the bank balance.

NepentheZ
11-08-2008, 13:57
Right; have set this up but there's a couple of obvious problems.

First, Nep: it doesn't like you having quite so much cash. I tried reducing it to £10m and that worked. As such I can leave it as is (with original decisions but £10m cash), or you can make some minor amendments if you want.


Firstly, can I ask why it wont allow me to have that much money. (At a guess, is it due to the club reputation?)

Secondly, I've taken the £3,250,000 over and invested it in my stadium, which is now a 13,250 instead of a 10,000 seater.

:thup:

bermybhoy
11-08-2008, 14:14
Firstly, can I ask why it wont allow me to have that much money. (At a guess, is it due to the club reputation?)

Secondly, I've taken the £3,250,000 over and invested it in my stadium, which is now a 13,250 instead of a 10,000 seater.

:thup:

Sure you can ask, but I've no idea. Maybe linked to rep or something, possibly some limits are in place to try and prevent data errors.

I think the overall consensus is to scrap the sugar daddy status, if everyone else who selected it could reply with their changes that would be good.

NepentheZ
11-08-2008, 14:17
IIRC when I toyed with the editor for my sign up in FM07 - finances was directly linked to rep in the Editor. So if I put my rep to the max, I could put the finances to the max too. Not sure if this is still the case in FM08, but seems so.

PaulHartman71
11-08-2008, 14:40
Would I be able to have the extra 5M from not having a sugardaddy in the bank?

robbo3d
11-08-2008, 15:29
If sugar daddy is being taken out, could i just remove this from my loan. That would make me £5mill over, and make a loan of £10m.

bermybhoy
11-08-2008, 16:32
If sugar daddy is being taken out, could i just remove this from my loan. That would make me £5mill over, and make a loan of £10m.

Will do. Hopefully it likes that level of loan, or we may need another rethink.


Would I be able to have the extra 5M from not having a sugardaddy in the bank?

Hmmm. You might have the same issue as Nep here. It didn't like much more than $10m in the bank for his club. I you can think of anything else let me know, otherwise I'll just make it the max possible.


If sugar daddy is being taken away, then for Arbroath, I would like these changes

Managers CA and PA both increased from 100 to 125 - A cost of $500,000
Chairmans CA and PA both increased from 120 to 160 - A cost of $1million
Stadium and avreage attendance increased from 7,50 to 8,500 - A cost of $1.5million

The additional $2million will go in the bank balance.

Okies

I plan to increase my stadium by another 3,500 and fans by 3,000, at a cost of $5m.

PaulHartman71
11-08-2008, 16:34
Is it okay if I do the same as you then Bermy?

bermybhoy
11-08-2008, 16:37
Is it okay if I do the same as you then Bermy?

Get your own ideas! :D

Yeah fine.

PaulHartman71
11-08-2008, 16:40
Just taking ideas from the Dragon himself, can't possibly go wrong if the Dragon is doing it :D

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
11-08-2008, 16:47
Does that mean everyone who had a sugardaddy has made their replacement £5m suggestion? :)

bermybhoy
11-08-2008, 16:52
Does that mean everyone who had a sugardaddy has made their replacement £5m suggestion? :)

Does that mean you're pressing me to get on with it?

If Glennuk could confirm if he just wants the cash or anything else then we're good to go.

lolleyj
11-08-2008, 17:11
Is there still spaces avaible before i make a Huge C.V Thingy?

PaulHartman71
11-08-2008, 17:13
No, spaces went a long time ago. You might be able to get on a reserve list though

bermybhoy
11-08-2008, 17:14
Is there still spaces avaible before i make a Huge C.V Thingy?

No, I'm afraid not.

lolleyj
11-08-2008, 17:17
Damm it, im better than the other candidates aswell! ive worked in this business for 41 years..cough cough

Walcott\'s Wonderkids
11-08-2008, 17:21
Does that mean you're pressing me to get on with it?

If Glennuk could confirm if he just wants the cash or anything else then we're good to go.


Haha :D

No not at all... I just couldn't be bothered to go and check how many people needed to change their stats! ;)

glennuk
11-08-2008, 18:06
Sorry had bit of a drama this afternoon.

Can It 2.5mil be in the bank.
+100 Club reputation = £500,000
+ 1000 Seats = 1 Mil
+ 1000 Average Attendance = 500,000
+ 1 Youth Facilities = £250,000
+ 1 Training Facilities = £250,000

£2.5Mil+£0.5Mil+£1Mil+£0.5Mil+£0.25Mil+£0.25Mil= £5 Mil

So Club reputation now 3,100
Seats in stadium are now 9,000
Average attendance is now 8,500
Youth Facilities now at 11/20
Training Facilities now at 2/20 We bought a second hand exercise bike, a treadmill, some dumbells, and a subscription to Four Four Two Magazine, and a medium size shack to keep them in, we even managed laminate flooring and a poster of Sir Alf Ramsay.

henryzz
22-08-2008, 16:59
why have there been no posts for 11 days

jod123
22-08-2008, 17:35
why have there been no posts for 11 days

Because the signing up has finished and a new thread has been created for updates on how it goes.

bermybhoy
22-08-2008, 18:43
Yeah, new thread was started. Guess I should get this closed then.