Proof that the game cheats?

Let me just create the scene...

I bid 30m to both Juventus and Lazio, who co-own a player. Then 5 or 6 other top clubs bid for the player. Each bid 30m, which i thought was odd considering the AI normally varies the amounts they bid and also the fact that I had actually stumbled upon the correct amount needed to be accepted. Or so i thought. The news items then reach me that they have accepted every other 30m offer other than my own.

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=milanrejectxo8.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laziorejectfp0.jpg

At first i thought it was just becasue I am italian bidding for and player at an italian club, but they had accepted Inter's offer. This is can be put down only to the game having different prices for the AI and human players. Very disappointing to be honest.

You have put a deadline on your bid. I never make a bid with a deadline on it as it is never accepted. Remove the deadline and bid again. I am sure they will accept this time.

Yep. The selling club will never accept a deadlined bid with other teams interested.

You have put a deadline on your bid. I never make a bid with a deadline on it as it is never accepted. Remove the deadline and bid again. I am sure they will accept this time.

You're quite right. I had a deadline on. Like you I have never had one accepted. It is strange that they accepted a bid from everyone else at the same time as rejecting mine. Perhaps a different flaw to the one i suggested above

In my game, multiple ai bids are always exactly the same and are probably the minimum the selling club will accept.

The ai cheats in multiple ways to artificially make it harder for the players, just about all games do this.

In this case, the above post is correct, the selling team are not happy to have a deadline set.

I've had a bit of this about the game cheating, but in a different scenario. Let me explain the story...

Milan Vs. Palermo. I only need a draw to win the Serie A title.

In the 22nd minute, Ronaldo collides with a defender and is injured slightly. I notice he's been pretty useless, so bring on aguero.

44th minute. Pirlo gets injured badly. I send on Ambrosini.

55th minute. Incredibly, Ambrosini gets injured too. Palermo are leading 1-0 at this point. I send on van der Vaart for my last sub.

70th minute. Daniel Alves gets injured too. I have no more subs, so I have to take him off. I'm playing with 10 men at this point.

Somehow, I win 2-1 thanks to Kaka and Barzagli. Has anyone got a weirder game?

As has been said, this is completely down to the fact that you placed a deadline on your bid.

like others have said, most likey that it is that you put a deadline on the deal, However i had a simular situation before to that when i was milan, trying to buy chillieni from juventus, and evan though i did not put a deadline on the deal, i had the same message you got, so it could also be that Juventus are rivals, and the juve manager may have a poor opinion of you, i belive that was the reason why juve would not accept a £40M bid from me, but accept a £28M + clauses from seville.

Well as far as transfers go it's like this. if a club has a favorute player or a player who is a key role to them, why would they sell cheap? if you bid 3 times there market value you may stand a chance of getting him..

If you enquire with an offer in most cases they say no, but there again if the club is straped for cash or the player isnt a key player they will ask for an amount slightly higher.

If you make cheaky bids below a key players value, the opposing clubs chairman will slowly build a dislike to yo uas a manager, every time you bid they up the amount they want for that player, so if you actually put a respectfull offer in the first time you would proebly get him cheaper..

You have to check the players morale at the club and his role withinhis club, also his age, you need to work out if the club is rich or in debt, a rich club isnt going to accept a low bid for there better player are they?

Aston Villa held out for 18 million this year and it looks like Liverpool will end up paying it..

i never get deadline bids accepted, so whenever i'm bidding a minimum fee release clause i always put non-negotiable and deadline today, just so i feel special

How can a game cheat when it has no concept of right or wrong? It only does what it is programmed to do. maybe at times this programming allow the computer to operate in an artificially effective way, but it cannot cheat.

The day a computer cheats is the day we know to that the Terminator series was a documentary.

As for the person who described getting lots of injurys in a game as the game cheating, unfortunately thats just bad luck, and to the topic creator, i would also say that the use of a deadline in not advisable

There are programming issues and bugs in all software, but just like giblets_of_fire says this is not some kind of AI cheating even if you wish to interpret it that way. The transfer market has been found by many people to be different for AI managers and for human managers, but it is obvioiusly programmed that way, either deliberately or else it is a bug.

I work for a company that produces software containing plenty of complicated algorithms. Needless to say it contains bugs even though we are constantly fixing those that are reported. Never yet though have we had a client get in touch with us and tell us the software is cheating because it crashes or produces unexpected results!

like others have said, most likey that it is that you put a deadline on the deal, However i had a simular situation before to that when i was milan, trying to buy chillieni from juventus, and evan though i did not put a deadline on the deal, i had the same message you got, so it could also be that Juventus are rivals, and the juve manager may have a poor opinion of you, i belive that was the reason why juve would not accept a £40M bid from me, but accept a £28M + clauses from seville.

Yeah I have had the same scenario a few times when trying to bid for rival players. I bid silly amounts and yet they still accept offers from other teams a lot lower. I understand exactly why they have done it unfortunately.

I've had a bit of this about the game cheating, but in a different scenario. Let me explain the story...

Milan Vs. Palermo. I only need a draw to win the Serie A title.

In the 22nd minute, Ronaldo collides with a defender and is injured slightly. I notice he's been pretty useless, so bring on aguero.

44th minute. Pirlo gets injured badly. I send on Ambrosini.

55th minute. Incredibly, Ambrosini gets injured too. Palermo are leading 1-0 at this point. I send on van der Vaart for my last sub.

70th minute. Daniel Alves gets injured too. I have no more subs, so I have to take him off. I'm playing with 10 men at this point.

Somehow, I win 2-1 thanks to Kaka and Barzagli. Has anyone got a weirder game?

So your point is??? The game cheated but you still won?

Actually, from my experience I have seen lots of unlikely last matchday results in human managers' favour.

In my LAN game with two mates we had decisive last matches lots of times and in every case the human manager would have failed if the AI team had won against a lesser opponent. Never happened.

And yes, I have also seen weirder games.

Just an example from my online game, happened just 2 weeks ago:

Southampton-Birmingham, playoff semi, first leg 3-0

Second leg: Birmingham-Southampton

1-0 (9)

2-0 (45)

2-1 (55)

3-1 (62)

4-1 (65)

5-1 (67)

6-1 (78)

6-2 (83)

6-3 (85)

7-3 (90+1)

7-4 (90+4)

7-5 (96)

7-6 (99)

Now that I'd call weird.

But mine is weird due to the unlikely number of injuries. 4 injuries in a single match to one team? Devastating. It made me lose the ECC as my star performer Pirlo was out

But, still the human manager triumphs . This isn't a rant, just to showcase that the AI is weird.

Can I just ask the OP how this constitutes to proof of cheating?

Can I just ask the OP how this constitutes to proof of cheating?

I think he has withdrawn his argument already

Well as far as transfers go it's like this. if a club has a favorute player or a player who is a key role to them' date=' why would they sell cheap? if you bid 3 times there market value you may stand a chance of getting him..

If you enquire with an offer in most cases they say no, but there again if the club is straped for cash or the player isnt a key player they will ask for an amount slightly higher.

If you make cheaky bids below a key players value, the opposing clubs chairman will slowly build a dislike to yo uas a manager, every time you bid they up the amount they want for that player, so if you actually put a respectfull offer in the first time you would proebly get him cheaper..

You have to check the players morale at the club and his role withinhis club, also his age, you need to work out if the club is rich or in debt, a rich club isnt going to accept a low bid for there better player are they?

Aston Villa held out for 18 million this year and it looks like Liverpool will end up paying it..[/quote']

I think you are reading too much into this. Even with low morale and a desire to leave the club, the selling team very rarely reduces their selling value. I have only ever once seen a rejection because they don't like the manager opposing. How many times does that happen in real life?? Spurs hated the fact that Liverpool taped up Keane, yet they still sold him.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, the transfer market in FM does not accurately reflect the transfer market in real life. Just take Nasri and Van Der Vaart for example. Real are rumoured to have spent les than 12m signing der Vaart and Arsenal less than 15m for Nasri. How much would they cost in FM? Around 30-40m I'd bet. The main problem with the transfer market in FM, when compared to real life, is that when a big team declares an interest, or taps up a player, the player's head does not get turned and the selling club are not inclined so sell an 'unhappy' player. As a result the fee stays higher and unrealistic.

In real life when Arsenal approached Marseille about Nasri, they probably already had declared their interest to his agent, who then informed Marseille that the player would like to leave for Arsenal. Marseille are in a lower league, reputation wise and financially can't offer the same salary, so settle for the fact that they can't keep the player and negotiate a transfer. His fee is now no longer 40m, which i have paid once or twice, but 15m as irl.

And to those who go on about the fact there is a deadline on the transfer, i have admitted as much. However, why offer a feature if it is no use whatsoever? And why turn my offer down when they accepted other offers at the SAME time for the SAME amount? The deadline had no effect as they had already accept offers for the player.

Well as far as transfers go it's like this. if a club has a favorute player or a player who is a key role to them' date=' why would they sell cheap? if you bid 3 times there market value you may stand a chance of getting him..

If you enquire with an offer in most cases they say no, but there again if the club is straped for cash or the player isnt a key player they will ask for an amount slightly higher.

If you make cheaky bids below a key players value, the opposing clubs chairman will slowly build a dislike to yo uas a manager, every time you bid they up the amount they want for that player, so if you actually put a respectfull offer in the first time you would proebly get him cheaper..

You have to check the players morale at the club and his role withinhis club, also his age, you need to work out if the club is rich or in debt, a rich club isnt going to accept a low bid for there better player are they?

Aston Villa held out for 18 million this year and it looks like Liverpool will end up paying it..[/quote']

Can I just ask the OP how this constitutes to proof of cheating?

They rejected my offer while accepting the AI's, which were at the same value, and at the same time. How is that not a form of favouritism towards the AI?

They rejected my offer while accepting the AI's, which were at the same value, and at the same time. How is that not a form of favouritism towards the AI?

A couple of very simple reasons:

1/ AC Milan are a major (95% in the editor) rival of Lazio - hence they would reject your bid or expect much more. The other clubs, including inter are not a rival of lazio.

2/ You set a deadline - there is a minor bug involving deadlines - absolutely nothing to do with cheating.

The game does not cheat.

They rejected my offer while accepting the AI's, which were at the same value, and at the same time. How is that not a form of favouritism towards the AI?

Milan and Juventus are rivals which does effect how likely a bid is to be accepted.

Actually, I signed VDV for 8.25 million.

i have found tho Al teams have always wanted at least 3 times a players market value. if an Al player has a long contract then this will aid also in a high asking price. IRl players to get sold because a no of reason's. Van der vart who went to Madrid is one of them situation's where the club respect the players wish to play for a reputal club..

In all honesty Man U have done well to hold onto Ronaldo this summer. if it wasnt due to his injury who knows what may of happend..

I dont think spurs had much chance of keeping keane, he wanted to go. spurs in reality want cash to buy there own players instead of using ones from Jol's time at the club.. and 20 mill for a 28 year old is good business and a profit by spurs in the long run.

As for the game i know there are situation's that aid in a players asking price but it does seem some thing's are set in stone.

think of it if it was your best players. would you want to be forced to sell them to an Al team for silly bids?

I think it's just the way the game is made. i dotn think it's a cheat module by the Al, Si really need to impliment new thing's to help.

But even if 09 was out 2morrow. it will be full of bugs and by the tiem patches etc get developed it will be into next jan or feb time. so by the tiem you get a bug free game you enjoy playing, the football season will be at a close and b4 yo uknow it. every on ewill be talkign about fm10 and fixing bugs etc..

How can a game cheat when it has no concept of right or wrong? It only does what it is programmed to do. maybe at times this programming allow the computer to operate in an artificially effective way, but it cannot cheat.

The day a computer cheats is the day we know to that the Terminator series was a documentary.

As for the person who described getting lots of injurys in a game as the game cheating, unfortunately thats just bad luck, and to the topic creator, i would also say that the use of a deadline in not advisable

The ai can see your shortlist, thats 100% cheating.

Just about every game cheats. Catchup on driving games, 60 foot backhanded floaters on NHL series, in ArmA, the ai could see through long grass.

Milan and Juventus are rivals which does effect how likely a bid is to be accepted.

Fair enough but would a club throw £12m out the window because its a rival?

Let me just create the scene...

I bid 30m to both Juventus and Lazio, who co-own a player. Then 5 or 6 other top clubs bid for the player. Each bid 30m, which i thought was odd considering the AI normally varies the amounts they bid and also the fact that I had actually stumbled upon the correct amount needed to be accepted. Or so i thought. The news items then reach me that they have accepted every other 30m offer other than my own.

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=milanrejectxo8.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laziorejectfp0.jpg

At first i thought it was just becasue I am italian bidding for and player at an italian club, but they had accepted Inter's offer. This is can be put down only to the game having different prices for the AI and human players. Very disappointing to be honest.

Proof that the game cheats? Or proof you're not doing it right?

Proof that the game cheats? Or proof you're not doing it right?

He's already acknowledged that the game isn't cheating.

Fair enough but would a club throw £12m out the window because its a rival?

Yes, you wouldn't see Celtic sell McGeady or someone to Rangers no matter how much they get offered.

They rejected my offer while accepting the AI's, which were at the same value, and at the same time. How is that not a form of favouritism towards the AI?

A couple of very simple reasons:

1/ AC Milan are a major (95% in the editor) rival of Lazio - hence they would reject your bid or expect much more. The other clubs, including inter are not a rival of lazio.

2/ You set a deadline - there is a minor bug involving deadlines - absolutely nothing to do with cheating.

The game does not cheat.

Pretty much sums it up Ched. bearsy - There is no favoritism towards the AI. It may APPEAR there is, but there is always a logical explanation as to why such events have happened. In this case, Ched has kindly explained why.

Also - it 'appears' that the AI have bid the same as you - but they may have extra clauses in their bid that don't get mentioned. This could be a key factor in accepting or rejecting a bid.

and 'favoritism' and 'cheating' are two different words.

The ai can see your shortlist, thats 100% cheating.

Just about every game cheats. Catchup on driving games, 60 foot backhanded floaters on NHL series, in ArmA, the ai could see through long grass.

I dont think you quite understood, yes the AI may in some situations have an unfair advantage over a human player, but it can never be called cheating, favouritism maybe, but not cheating.

And as for the ai being able to see your shortlist, im not sure exactly what you mean by this, but surely most real managers will have a good idea of which players their competiton are interested in. Can you seriously tell me that no-one other than Rafa Benitez knew that Liverpool were interested in Robbie Keane?

They rejected my offer while accepting the AI's, which were at the same value, and at the same time. How is that not a form of favouritism towards the AI?

Your screenshot shows why your bid was rejected - you added a deadline as others have said, this is nothing to do with whether it was you or an AI offer - they just didn't like the terms of your offer.

The better question is why Lazio are willing to sell a young striker valued at £33m for only £30m?

tidy your desk top up and put those short cuts into a folder

They rejected my offer while accepting the AI's, which were at the same value, and at the same time. How is that not a form of favouritism towards the AI?

The ai can see your shortlist, thats 100% cheating.

Your shortlist isn't exactly a secret, yours is given away like the computers is - by the Wanted sign next to shortlisted players. (Which is rather annoying in network games).

Yes, you wouldn't see Celtic sell McGeady or someone to Rangers no matter how much they get offered.

Yes you would, hes not that good and if they offered £12m more than other teams, it would weaken Rangers financial position while Celtic could easily strengthen by bringing in a better player for less money.

I dont think you quite understood, yes the AI may in some situations have an unfair advantage over a human player, but it can never be called cheating, favouritism maybe, but not cheating.

And as for the ai being able to see your shortlist, im not sure exactly what you mean by this, but surely most real managers will have a good idea of which players their competiton are interested in. Can you seriously tell me that no-one other than Rafa Benitez knew that Liverpool were interested in Robbie Keane?

You think favouritism isnt cheating? Its exactly the same thing, the ai is getting an unfair advantage over you.

Youre talking about once transfer that was reported in the press. Im talking about you privately listing your targets without making a move and the other teams see this and then make a move themselves.

Did you see other managers making a move on Keane as soon as Benitez thought about Keane?

Your shortlist isn't exactly a secret, yours is given away like the computers is - by the Wanted sign next to shortlisted players. (Which is rather annoying in network games).

It should be 100% secret, perhaps the wtd sign and a teams interest should only appear after either an offer is made or the player has been scouted?

That would reflect what happens in the real world and avoid a very annoying part of the game.

It's never 100% secret. Almost all deals are known about before they happen by the media.

Philly - the Default shortlist is considered an Active shortlist, and is public, just like the AI's active shortlists (WNT, Interested:).

However, you can create a private shortlist:

- Click "Shortlist"

- At the bottom right, click on "Shortlists v"

- Select "New Shortlist"

- Name your shortlist "Private Shortlist" (or, whatever you like, really)

- Now, click on "Shortlists v" again.

- Select "Set Active Shortlists"

You will note that the "Default" shortlist has a greyed-out checkbox which forces it to be "Active". In other words, placing any player into the default, Active shortlist is a public action, not a private one.

You can, however, de-select the checkbox next to our new "Private Shortlist". That will make placing any player into it a private action .. but you won't receive news updates about that player.

It's never 100% secret. Almost all deals are known about before they happen by the media.

Thats when a deal happens, putting a player on your short list isnt putting a deal through.

As Ive said, Id have no problem if your interest was known once you scouted them, but who knows apart from the manager and chairman who the targets are going to be in the next transfer window?

No one because they havent made their interest known yet just like we havent made our interest known as weve only put them on a short list and havent even seen them play yet.

Thats when a deal happens, putting a player on your short list isnt putting a deal through.

No, it's known before the deal is done. I do understand your point about simply shortlisting a player though. Perhaps it would be much better (and probably more realistic) if oither teams were alerted when you actually scout them.

Philly - the Default shortlist is considered an Active shortlist, and is public, just like the AI's active shortlists (WNT, Interested:).

However, you can create a private shortlist:

- Click "Shortlist"

- At the bottom right, click on "Shortlists v"

- Select "New Shortlist"

- Name your shortlist "Private Shortlist" (or, whatever you like, really)

- Now, click on "Shortlists v" again.

- Select "Set Active Shortlists"

You will note that the "Default" shortlist has a greyed-out checkbox which forces it to be "Active". In other words, placing any player into the default, Active shortlist is a public action, not a private one.

You can, however, de-select the checkbox next to our new "Private Shortlist". That will make placing any player into it a private action .. but you won't receive news updates about that player.

thank you very much. This is actually quite useful. I'll be sure to use it in the future.

You're welcome .. hope philly spotted it!!

Note that then your action "Add to Shortlist" should become a side-tab, and you'll have to pick which of your two shortlists to add the player to.

I'd recommend using the Active Shortlist for players who you are actively engaged in pursuing, or are declaring interest in, etc .. and using the Inactive / private shortlist for long-term tracking of players.

How can a game cheat when it has no concept of right or wrong? It only does what it is programmed to do. maybe at times this programming allow the computer to operate in an artificially effective way, but it cannot cheat.

The day a computer cheats is the day we know to that the Terminator series was a documentary.

As for the person who described getting lots of injurys in a game as the game cheating, unfortunately thats just bad luck, and to the topic creator, i would also say that the use of a deadline in not advisable

Zlatan Imbrohiovic 'went down like he'd been shot' to get a pen against me in the Champions League Semi Final. Tell me that's not the AI cheating!!

You're welcome .. hope philly spotted it!!

I hate that because theres more steps to adding a player to a shortlist, the same goes if you import a shortlist. I havent found a way of getting rid of the 2nd shortlist, even if you delete the imported one.

I'm confused by that, Philly - you can't delete the "Default" shortlist, no, but I've always been able to delete the imported or newly created one.

Yes, its a slight extra step, but not one that's bothered me too badly, the times I've wanted this functionality.

Pretty much sums it up Ched. bearsy - There is no favoritism towards the AI. It may APPEAR there is, but there is always a logical explanation as to why such events have happened. In this case, Ched has kindly explained why.

Also - it 'appears' that the AI have bid the same as you - but they may have extra clauses in their bid that don't get mentioned. This could be a key factor in accepting or rejecting a bid.

and 'favoritism' and 'cheating' are two different words.

There are no extra clauses as it was a co-owned bid to two teams and you can only offer cash upfront to both teams.

And to those who just read the first post in the topic, please note that I have already agreed that it was not cheating just a bug that appeared to grant favouritism towards the AI.

There are no extra clauses as it was a co-owned bid to two teams and you can only offer cash upfront to both teams.

And to those who just read the first post in the topic, please note that I have already agreed that it was not cheating just a bug that appeared to grant favouritism towards the AI.

I was providing an explanation as to why it wasn't even favouritism towards the AI, just aa combination of basic logic and a minor bug.

Pretty much sums it up Ched. bearsy - There is no favoritism towards the AI. It may APPEAR there is, but there is always a logical explanation as to why such events have happened. In this case, Ched has kindly explained why.

Also - it 'appears' that the AI have bid the same as you - but they may have extra clauses in their bid that don't get mentioned. This could be a key factor in accepting or rejecting a bid.

and 'favoritism' and 'cheating' are two different words.

I was providing an explanation as to why it wasn't even favouritism towards the AI, just aa combination of basic logic and a minor bug.

Yes agreed, but the result appeared to cause favouritism.