Unlocking the door For more PA and CA

IRL some players are touted to be the next Wayne Rooney etc.

on the game, any good youg player is given a CA and a PA, in some cases young player say with a PA of around 150 is bordering on becoming good to very good.

it's been in certain cases that some players who never reach there potentiol at certain stages and clubs go on to supass there CA and Pa by good managment.

Would it not be possible for a half decent player who trains well and is managed well to suddenly get granted a new PA.

Also there need to be more interaction with players training. ie Striker Joe Bloggs, " if you can concentrate on your off ball movments you could be as good as Wayne Rooney etc"

" if you dont improve on your Shooting you'll end up a league 1 player by the time your in your 20's"

Players that apply them selves well and get managed well. once they get say to there 150 PA, there could be news flash saying Joe Bloggs has passed all expectations of him and could become the worlds best player unlocking more PA.

im not saying a player of PA 100 would end up 150 or 175,

If a player has the correct mental stats and hiden stats this could be an option. IRL players are touted to be world class potentiol but they dont go on to reach there potentiol untill later in life..

PA represents the best a player could ever be if everything went perfect for them, and in my opinion should be fixed. Once they get to around 16 a persons potential never goes up or down, only their ability to reach their potential changes, and this should be more varied in the game. But PA should not change.

PA represents the best a player could ever be if everything went perfect for them, and in my opinion should be fixed. Once they get to around 16 a persons potential never goes up or down, only their ability to reach their potential changes, and this should be more varied in the game. But PA should not change.

As far as I know a players PA never changes.

Perhaps you're not completely familiar with the meanings of PA and CA?

PA means the (highest) Potential a player can achieve. In most cases, a player never gets to that level, but gets stuck somewhere between his CA and PA. If a player has a CA of 100 and a PA of 180 and you don't play him often (or careful) enough and forgot about tutoring him, he'll end up with a final CA of e.g. 150.

The 180 he will only achieve if you've done everything to ensure he gets the perfect training, which most people don't do, since not all players need the same perfect training, so you're probably always a bit off as a human manager. I guess you'll end up with a player around 178 or something, which is by far still not any bad considering you've tried your best.

But to upgrade the PA because you managed to train him perfectly, that's something which won't happen, as far as I know. If that would be possibly, every single player could potentially be as good as the current version of Rooney in the game ;-) Which means that it would make the entire PA worthless, since you can always upgrade it by training well.

In older versions of the game (Im thinking of 06 specifically) you could change the PA of a player depending on the training and the level that the player plays at. My friend and I started a game with Brum in 06 and won the league, champs league etc etc a couple of seasons in a row and 90% of our squad became world class! It was a flipping joke, we made like 100 million selling off our subs after buying them for only a couple of mill each lol. Although that was great fun, it got pretty damn silly. I think 09 should have a balance between this. IMHO it should be possible to increase a players' PA with outstanding training/level of play/level of players he plays with. But it should be a rarity - like having a son in the present game...

In older versions of the game (Im thinking of 06 specifically) you could change the PA of a player depending on the training and the level that the player plays at. My friend and I started a game with Brum in 06 and won the league, champs league etc etc a couple of seasons in a row and 90% of our squad became world class! It was a flipping joke, we made like 100 million selling off our subs after buying them for only a couple of mill each lol. Although that was great fun, it got pretty damn silly. I think 09 should have a balance between this. IMHO it should be possible to increase a players' PA with outstanding training/level of play/level of players he plays with. But it should be a rarity - like having a son in the present game...

This is all CA that you're talking about here, PA has been fixed for as long as it's been in the game as far as I know. The only time PA can change is when a young player suffers a bad injury or is 'burned out' through being over played. In these situations it is possible for a players PA to drop, although it's quite rare.

Again, PA should remain fixed as every player in the world has a limit to how good they can be. If this was not the case then all players who get the same coaching and match experience would have the same levels of ability, and we know this is not true.

Imo the only change that should be made is in the development model. A lot more factors should influance whether a player gats near to their potential, and at what point in their carrer.

This is all CA that you're talking about here, PA has been fixed for as long as it's been in the game as far as I know. The only time PA can change is when a young player suffers a bad injury or is 'burned out' through being over played. In these situations it is possible for a players PA to drop, although it's quite rare.

Again, PA should remain fixed as every player in the world has a limit to how good they can be. If this was not the case then all players who get the same coaching and match experience would have the same levels of ability, and we know this is not true.

Imo the only change that should be made is in the development model. A lot more factors should influance whether a player gats near to their potential, and at what point in their carrer.

I agree with your logic, at the end of the day most players will NEVER reach the dizzying heights of the premiership - however, is it not possible that with a largely unknown player that its not possible to make a judgement? I mean, in the game there are plenty of regens/youngsters who have a very high PA but a very low CA. How on earth (in real life) would you be able to say when looking at a crappy 14 year old "He's going to be world class"? If the kid already has skills and is still very young, that would be understandable.

Like i said, i would like to see the ability to increase the PA of a player dependant upon the development he is given (training, match levels etc), but it be a serious rarity. Think about how good (or not) David Bentley and Micah Richards were a few games ago - their fixed PAs meant they would never reach the kind of level they are at now, and yet here they are, being 2 of the most promising english players. Same point about Rooney.

the problem is that Richards, Rooney and Bently always had the potential to be excellent players. Unfortunately their ability at the time (their CA) made it impossible for the researchers to know how they would turn out.

But the fact remains that these players had and still have a fixed level that they'll never get beyond no matter what they do. So this should be in the game.

For me it would be a big problem for players to have variable PA. It would lead to the situation where as long as you have top class facilities and coaches you could make absolutely any player top class. This clearly is not the case or clubs like Man Utd would be producing top class player from their youth acadamy every single year. None of them would fail and have to move down to lower leagues.

PA it potential. No player can surpass his potential. His potential can be misjudged, sure but it never changes.

Now CA, current ability is what changes due to good management/training etc.

Think about how good (or not) David Bentley and Micah Richards were a few games ago - their fixed PAs meant they would never reach the kind of level they are at now, and yet here they are, being 2 of the most promising english players.

Like I said above, that's potential being misjudged. It doesn't mean they surpassed their potential, it just means that reseachers didn't get it right.

Like I said above, that's potential being misjudged. It doesn't mean they surpassed their potential, it just means that reseachers didn't get it right.

I completely agree, but baring in mind FM is a model of REAL LIFE (albeit a simple one), surely that means that if the ability to increase a players PA in the game was available, some of those misjudgements could be rectified?

And like i said, I don't want this to happen all the time, just occasionally. Almost like a reward for sticking with a player and training him properly. It was just an idea anyway!

But why would they be rectified if they didn't know the potential. The editor is there to change anything you don't agree with. And how would they know who to give higher potential to?

Look, my idea was pretty simple. Pulling it apart like this exposes flaws because it's not exactly a dissertation lol.

My point is this - you were saying that a player should NEVER surpass his PA (and can't obv), but since this game is a model of real life, and CLEARLY richards and bentley had more potential than the researchers realised, their PAs SHOULD have been higher. So by that logic, its entirely possible that the researchers have incorrectly judged the PA values of players all over the place. Allowing a player's PA to improve would more accurately model real life, as it would give the manager the ability to change people's (and the game's) view on how good a certain player was and could become. If bentley had stayed at arsenal on the bench and not played - would he be as good as he is now? unlikely. And since he has already surpassed his OLD PA value, ur argument about CA doesn't count

I think what would be better for the series would be to have more players with higher PA, but make it much more difficult to reach. This accounts for researcher error, changes in manegerial influence and late developers (like drogba). I personally think PA attainability should be linked to player mentality - a determined player with high work rate is likely to put the required effort in to acheive the most he can, whilst a gifted temperamental player, may be less likely to acheive all he could.

I think having PA change could lead to problems - mainly in defining what causes the PA increase and what types of players are prone to this. I just don't think it's practical.

I think what would be better for the series would be to have more players with higher PA, but make it much more difficult to reach. This accounts for researcher error, changes in manegerial influence and late developers (like drogba). I personally think PA attainability should be linked to player mentality - a determined player with high work rate is likely to put the required effort in to acheive the most he can, whilst a gifted temperamental player, may be less likely to acheive all he could.

I think having PA change could lead to problems - mainly in defining what causes the PA increase and what types of players are prone to this. I just don't think it's practical.

In all honesty I think I prefer your idea to mine now I think about it. That would mean that essentially what I want to achieve HAS been put in the game, because you are able to make players alot better than they presently are if trained well and properly. BTW I'm pretty sure the mentality thing is already in the game, numerous times I've had to change my training schedules because lazy players don't like the high workload.

I think what would be better for the series would be to have more players with higher PA, but make it much more difficult to reach. This accounts for researcher error, changes in manegerial influence and late developers (like drogba). I personally think PA attainability should be linked to player mentality - a determined player with high work rate is likely to put the required effort in to acheive the most he can, whilst a gifted temperamental player, may be less likely to acheive all he could.

I think having PA change could lead to problems - mainly in defining what causes the PA increase and what types of players are prone to this. I just don't think it's practical.

Thumbs up

I think what would be better for the series would be to have more players with higher PA, but make it much more difficult to reach. This accounts for researcher error, changes in manegerial influence and late developers (like drogba). I personally think PA attainability should be linked to player mentality - a determined player with high work rate is likely to put the required effort in to acheive the most he can, whilst a gifted temperamental player, may be less likely to acheive all he could.

I think having PA change could lead to problems - mainly in defining what causes the PA increase and what types of players are prone to this. I just don't think it's practical.

I generally agree with the fact that it might be really hard to define what causes the PA to increase. As it stands now, I already think it's hard to define what defines or increases your CA ;-)

If you simply increase the PA, it might just as well happen that, once you understand the 'trick', you'll end up with a lot of over-classed players. Not to mention, if you make it too hard to understand, people will simply not get as good as they could be. It'll be like a difficulty level for training youngsters then.

So, I don't really agree with having a higher PA. Despite understanding the reason and agreeing on the researcher errors getting countered by a higher PA, I wonder if this will improve anything. How much more are you supposed to take into account by then? Then again, it might be done by using the personality traits (described a bit later). But first, the late developer.

Perhaps it's an idea to have an extra hidden element called 'late developer' instead, which can influence when he reaches the heights he's supposed to be reaching according to his PA. Perhaps after that trigger, his development should be getting 50% better than a regular player, while he generally improves like 80% of the normal bunch before the trigger. Or perhaps it's simply his mental stats which suffer from it, only rocketing after the trigger.

I believe it could be working in the same way as 'injury prone' should be working. Not visible, but still active in the background, influencing how he develops over time.

Don't look at me for which players should be getting this element though - that's something a researcher should be looking at ;-) And since PA is generally a guess anyway, this would be just as much as a guess.

And as said, the personality trait. I agree that player mentality should be more linked - so far we have 'unambitious' individuals in the game, which obviously mean they won't achieve the highest heights despite their world-class PA. So the first step is there already.

The next step might be something like players complaining about the low-class training facilities, because the very ambitious players want to become better - and if the facilities don't get upgraded, they want to move on.

Or professional players complaining about their coaches not having enough discipline to come up with good training-schedules.

Or what about determined players who complain about coaches who are too lenient after losses, which might be dependent on their determination to win.

It might all lead to players seeking their future elsewhere, or you improving that. Might be a nice idea to have ultimatums for that from players, if it takes too long for you to improve those. After all, it conflicts so much with their own personality, that they might not be getting the proper training to achieve the PA.

Which brings me back to the first issue again - it is already hard to determine their CA improvements, let alone their PA ;-)

I think players need more personality traits, Depending on these personalities when they emerge as regens the personality deters what kind of player he becomes.

At the Moment we have things like,

Adaptability, Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, Sportsmanship, Temprement, Controversial..

things that could effect the player CA and PA could be extra hidden stats such as.

Mental ( How strong his mind is )

Motivation ( How good he is at motivating himself to forfill his potentiol )

Genetics ( How strong his body can get, recover form injuries )

Illness ( does he have a strong enough imune system to fight illness, ie, Colds, Flu etc )

Education ( Higher the education, the better the player is at lerning the game and lerning to new tactics )

these are just a thew things off top of my head, these attributes can be used to effect if a player will forfill his potentiol and how he developes as a player and person. By using these attributes it helps players have a wider range of personality which will result in is short fall or road to glory..