You just know when it's not your day

Hello everyone,

I hate threads from people moaning about a match they have just lost or drawn or something but I'm going to have to be hypocritical because although I will keep all moaning to a minimum, it's basically what this thread is, or at least to some people. I also started it because I feel that now it has become too obvious when the game is actually conspired against you.

Now I know that people will say it's my tactics; I would bet my life savings on at least one person saying this. But the issue of "superkeepers" is somewhat annoying me and it just seems to me that it is a problem that never goes away! An example: in my Milan game I have a match against Udinese in the Coppa Italia. I draw 0-0 at home, and I notice that I have been dominated in midfield thanks in part to the flimsy Pirlo (even though Gattuso is there to back him up, Udinese are playing 1 DM and 2 CMs). The next match I have is Udinese again, away this time in the Serie A. I adjust my tactics so that I can have a better game in midfield. I use Ambrosini, Pirlo and Gattuso all in midfield. My plan works and I also have more shots on target. But this is where the annoying keeper issue comes in. Early on in the match I am noticing that my striker/attackers are having many chances on goal; by their (Amauri, Kaka and Seedorf) standards, very good chances. They are all on target, except their keeper (Handanovic) seems to be high on steroids as he keeps out every single shot. The man is, by footballing standards, a donkey, and yet against my world class players he has the match of his life and keeps out 21 shots on target and gets a 9 rating. In comparison, their team gets 6 shots overall and 4 on target. As I said, I noticed early on that the keeper was keeping everything out and I always dread this because it more often than not means that I will not be able to score. During this match I changed my tactics and even this did not change the behaviour of the keeper. When I say I changed my tactics, I mean I slowed down the tempo.

I love this game, though. Don't get me wrong. I've bought each one on the day it has come out.

But the superkeeper issue exists, and some people just have to face it. No matter how many times they might tell others that it's their tactics or players or whatever, they have to convince themselves otherwise. It exists and I plead with SI to do all they can to try and eradicate it from the game.

Thanks for reading!

Mef.

Hello everyone,

it's my tactics

Thanks for reading!

Mef.

I took the liberty of editing out the rubbish. Superkeepers don't exist - they are merely an artifact created by a flawed tactic.

At least you won your bet

Are you socially inept Ched? You need help.

Are you socially inept Ched? You need help.

*shrug* If you'd posted what your tactic consisted of then i could have helped you fix the problem, but if you don't accept that the problem is of your own creation then it's not going to go away any time soon.

And please refrain from abuse such as the quote i provided. It's not big and it's not clever.

Ah, you're 16, that explains much.

Well why should it be? I had thrashed Siena 6-0 the match before the 0-0 draw.

But you are socially inept otherwise you wouldn't have posted such a silly comment. You just played right into my hands

superkeepers dont exist... its a fact of football that, every now and again, the opposition keeper plays a blinder... look at the fa cup in england > how many times do you see lesser clubs int he thirs round playing against bigger clubs, and their keeper keeps them in the game with save after save after save??? look at the playoffs this year with leeds. how many great saves did keiran westwood make to keep his team in the tie? and that was over both legs!!

Of course that happens, yes I agree. But not to the frequency to which happens in FM. All keepers have days where they seem to save everything. But it doesn't happen as often as FM might depict.

Well why should it be? I had thrashed Siena 6-0 the match before the 0-0 draw.

But you are socially inept otherwise you wouldn't have posted such a silly comment. You just played right into my hands

Sienna are a much poorer team compared to udinese - a flawed tactic may work against a poor team, but struggle against stronger opposition. (it also works the otherway 'round occasionally)

Someone who comes onto an internet forum to moan about drawing a game has branded me "socially inept" - i may need counseling to get over the trauma....

Can't wait for you lot to go back to school.

And even though I might be 16, Ched, I guarantee I'm of a higher intellectual capacity than you could ever wish to be. Just trust me.

Actually Udinese are 19th in my game and Siena 10th.

how do you know it doesnt happen that often?? do you watch every football match there is? i dont think so.. so it happens to your team.. it happens to everybody.. adjust your tactic and get over it.

by the way, does it mean if my striker scores 3 goals from 3 shots that i have a superstriker???

And even though I might be 16, Ched, I guarantee I'm of a higher intellectual capacity than you could ever wish to be. Just trust me.

Bless.

In that case you can no doubt use this exceptional intellect to figure out what's wrong with your tactic...oh wait....

how do you know it doesnt happen that often?? do you watch every football match there is? i dont think so.. so it happens to your team.. it happens to everybody.. adjust your tactic and get over it.

by the way, does it mean if my striker scores 3 goals from 3 shots that i have a superstriker???

I suspect we may get a more considered response from a wall - he's clearly to clever for us

Can a mod close this sharpish? It's gone from pointless to abusive to worse...

So being better than me at FM means you're cleverer than me? That makes me smile. Stop arguing with a 16 year old then and get on with your life. I'm sure an older person like you has better things to do.

So being better than me at FM means you're cleverer than me? That makes me smile. Stop arguing with a 16 year old then and get on with your life. I'm sure an older person like you has better things to do.

You've completely missed the point of my posts.

I'm not trying to argue with you.

I'm not trying to get into a childish insult match.

I'm not trying to claim to be cleverer than you, no doubt you've already got a degree...

All i'm trying to say is that superkeepers do not exist - if you post your tactic i can explain where you've gone wrong. If you aren't willing to accept that it might be your tactic at fault, then i'll leave you be. Promise.

Do we really need another thread discussing this. Theres one less than a 1/4 of the way down the page, with actual grown up conversation.

I don't like arguments myself so I'd just like to say sorry. I'm a teenager so I suppose mood swings are expected...

Sorry for the cheap shot about intellect.

Just one thing though, if you really wanted to help me with my tactic then why did your original response have a mocking and sarcastic tone to it? I just thought it was unnecessary.

Anyway, I'm curious to see what can be done about my tactic. How can I get it to you?

"Do we really need another thread discussing this. Theres one less than a 1/4 of the way down the page, with actual grown up conversation."

I wanted a grown up conversation too, seriously... I at least appreciate some of the intricacies of the game...

Just one thing though, if you really wanted to help me with my tactic then why did your original response have a mocking and sarcastic tone to it? I just thought it was unnecessary.

Appologies - my tone was unnecessary. It's just that there are quite a few threads like this and i'm not the most patient of people :o

Anyway, the best way for me to diagnose your tactical problems, would be to post a screenshot of the formation (the screen with player and arrows on) and a screen shot of the team instructions. For now we'll leave player instructions alone.

The most likely causes for this are:

1/ too high tempo - by far the most common problem - player rush sitters etc

2/ too attacking mentality - again players try and force shots rather than waiting for an opening.

3/ too many chances from poor positions - if the gap between your midfield and forwards is too large, then quite often the balls delivered upfield are of a substandard quality.

Thanks for the apology.

I'll get a screenshot for you latest tomorrow... I think I'm gonna go bed now, but I thought I would just comment on what you said. I don't think points 1 and 3 apply to my tactic because I get my team to play at a slow tempo and I have 2 MCs and an AMC, but that's just my opinion anyway and I'd like to see what you think of it tomorrow. However, point number two is probably a lot more relevant - although my overall team mentality is only on the first notch of "attacking", I think my forwards might individually have too much of an attacking mentality. But like you said, we'll leave player instructions for now. I'll get you some screenies for tomorrow. For now though, good night

"Superkeepers" dont exist. End of story.

"Superkeepers" dont exist. End of story.

A flawed 2D does though, hence it can be hard to pinpoint where your tactic is going wrong.

It's no wonder people feel cheated when so often a poor tactic is represented by dominating the AI and having a multitude of good chances that don't go in.

I've begun to be able to predict ACCURATELY a matches result after 20 minutes of the game starting, example 1) playing as Cherbourg against Nimes (french national league) away I beast them for the first 10mins, their keeper keeping them in it (no problem) I then have a goal disallowed, no problem but at that moment I said to myself they will score next attack and they of course did, I drew the game after ripping them to shreds for the next 70 minutes.

2) again as Cherbourg vs Paris FC at home, 15 minutes in and I know I've lost even though its 0-0, they had 2 shots from random undangerous positions and we had 2 one on ones that were saved and a goal again disallowed (clearly offside so no biigie) as soon as that goal was disallowed I knew they'd score soon so I went to tactics and changed my formation, tempo and set some specific man marking instructions, i click confirm and play (I always pause before going to tactics screen) the game starts and (I'm on key highlights) goes on a minute or so and I'm thinking I've done enough to stop the goal, but bam straight into a free kick (BEFORE tactics have been implemented) on the edge of my box (no build up) the guy kicks it straight at the wall it rebounds (I've noticed free kicks are completely broken) as it usually does to their guy wide in the box and he hits it hard at my centre back and it goes in, then NO HIGHLIGHTS for about 60 minutes, end of game.

3) the latest one Notts Forest vs Man Utd in the F.A cup final (2014 I'm better than Man Utd now as they sacked ferguson and gave the job to Giggs who was awful), we're winning 4-1 after 30 minutes and even then I knew I'd lost (I suspect reputation effects come backs btw) end result? 5-4 to them after 4 goals from.......Ben Arfa who came on in the......65th minute. That was balls. I actually resigned and deleted the save game for this because it was so cheap.

This is nothing to do with superkeepers but to do with the match engine and the way it works, some games you really are MEANT to lose (i would imagine based on some sort of hidden boost to the opposition for some unfathamoble A.I reason).

Also since I'm just griping now: i tried to sign Arshavin for Forest in 2013 summer, he has played EVERY game for Russia since 2008 (I checked given what happened) he wanted to join, his club agreed the fee we were set, then his work permit gets denied and the next week he signs for LYON who he gets a permit for....am I missing something or is that just plain cheating on the part of the A.I? In real life he WOULD have gotten the permit for Forest and if he didn't meet the criteria to get one (HE DID) he certainly wouldn't of gotten a permit for LYON. Since ya know identical circumstances.

I'll leave this open, but any return to the pointless bickering and name-calling will result in an infraction being handed out to the person responsible. Keep it on topic.

CHED:

Grow up and stop discriminating against people for something as pathetic as their age its just out of order. Did you never go to school ? Or did you skip that phase of your life out to become a sad old man patrolling internet forums about computer games ?

AZERI4LIFE:

It may be something to do with your tactics but sometimes people/teams do just have a bad day. You cant protect against the odd bad performance but if it is a regular occurence you would have to look at your tactics mate.

Good day all

Mark

Stop with the insults. One warning is all you get. That's a yellow card.

This is nothing to do with superkeepers but to do with the match engine and the way it works, some games you really are MEANT to lose (i would imagine based on some sort of hidden boost to the opposition for some unfathamoble A.I reason).

Aside from the buggy work permits, I wanted to point out the above, since this is very much true. I've had the same thing a few times before and just for the heck of it, I reloaded the game to see how I could actually win the game, because I simply felt cheated.

That said, after reloading 20 times and having played the same game 21 times in a row, I still haven't managed to beat the team which was on the verge of relegating while I was in the top 5 of the league. We are not rivals, nor do the managers hold a grudge against each other, nor were any of us on a winning or losing spree. Simply said, normal situation.

I've come to the conclusion that, despite teams being able to have a good or bad day (which sometimes does happen), there are also teams which simply seem to hold a grudge against you - without you ever being able to find out why, or how.

I'm now in my 6th season and the other club is still struggling to stay in the league, while I play European football and in all the matches against them I've played so far, I've never managed to win. Despite me having a better team overall, despite me having more experience, despite me having a team which would rather kill themselves than lose and despite me beating the other top-teams in both national as international competitions - I simply don't manage to win against them.

And yeah, I've practically tried all possible tactics out there by now.

I've accepted the fact that I simply don't win against them. Good thing I can win against most other teams which causes me to win the league ;-)

A flawed 2D does though, hence it can be hard to pinpoint where your tactic is going wrong.

It's no wonder people feel cheated when so often a poor tactic is represented by dominating the AI and having a multitude of good chances that don't go in.

I think this is a very good point.

Firstly, the game does not cheat you. It cannot and there would be no point to it doing so.

Secondly, if you're having problems winning games it probably is down to your tactics in some way, or your team talks, or your man management, or your training, or a multitude of other things that can contribute to winning or losing a game. The point is that in 95% of cases it will be down to something you're doing.

All that being said the problems and complaints usually arise from peoples inability to diagnose the cause of their problems and failings. Although, in my opinion, the '08 match engine is by far the best yet, it can still make it look as though a user has made a successful tactic as they are shown to have many chances and lots of possession. For many people it's only when you start thinking in terms of long term results rather than the performances you see in the 2D can you start to get an idea of how successful a tactic is.

So the problem is that as the game has become more complex the feedback given to the user has not. So for many people the game's now a lot harder, but the instructions to tell you where you're going wrong have not improved. This is why I've long been an advocator of better feedback from your staff, particularly in terms of your tactics.

So the player needs to realise that if something's not working in some way it's more then likely down to something you are or are not doing. You can win any game you go into on any day, there are no teams 'coded' to always beat you.

And SI need to improve the methods the player has to analyse their mistakes so that they can get a better understanding of why something's not working. That doesn't mean they'll want to know the solution, just the reason why. They can then use their managerial skills to figure out the solution for themselves.

I don't like arguments myself so I'd just like to say sorry. I'm a teenager so I suppose mood swings are expected...

Sorry for the cheap shot about intellect.

Just one thing though, if you really wanted to help me with my tactic then why did your original response have a mocking and sarcastic tone to it? I just thought it was unnecessary.

Anyway, I'm curious to see what can be done about my tactic. How can I get it to you?

Look fellas, to end the argument - I'm more intelligent, my dad can have both your dads (despite his recent death), I'm more virile, I've playing the game for longer (i remember the first version on the babbage box). Despite all these advantages, I have to lower myself to agree with Ched in that you just get games where the keeper is fantastic. It happens to us all and we all hate it. I disagree that it's the tactics, it isn't always, it can simply be that he's having one of those games. What I would suggest is that in this situation, you walk away from your machine and calm down, go back to it half an hour later and either:

1. Take it on the chin, carry on from that point, come to terms with the fact that even though you have Kaka, Rooney, Maradona and Puskas in your team you don't have a god given right to score every game.

or

2. Reload the game and play the match again, if you're satisfied with the result play on, if not reload until you get the result you want (and if necessary, take over the opposition team putting their youth team winger in goal). IF you continue to lose or draw, it's probably your tactics!

After starting a thread myself that is similar to this I have come to the same conclusions as chopper and Kenwyne.

Despite it constantly happening to me, I find it incredibly hard to believe that superkeepering actually exists. That may sound counter-intuative so I'll explain. I have played many games where I simply CANNOT beat a team. Reloading the game makes absolutely no difference, changing tactics/players etc. No matter what, I simply can't win. And then I play the same team in a replay 2 weeks later and thrash them. After a decent amount of testing, and watching every single SOT, I decide that the first game was simply because their keeper was having the game of his life (perceived as "super keepering"). The same thing happens a decent number of times throughout the season (4 or 5 at least). So, normally I would say it definitely exists.

However, changing the behaviour of my strikers (less forward runs, slower tempo etc) seems to negate alot of these superkeepering effects. Surely that means that its a tactics problem? Well, yes and no. This is because playing the same game against a team with the "new" striker behaviour can sometimes bring out the super keeper, and other times not. According to the match engine, all the SOTs are good/excellent chances for all-replays.

This leads me to believe the only thing that is feasible, that super-keepering DOESN'T exist, its just a symptom of the 2D match engine itself. I.e. actually when im being supered 90% of the chances are actually bloody awful, but the match engine (for some unknown reason) makes them look good, but has already decided that they are going to be saved (since they aren't actually very good) - so they have to make the keeper dive the width of the goal etc etc. This makes it look like u've been cheated. Hopefully in 09 u can ask ur Assman wtf is going on, and he will simply say "despite good possession etc, the chances we made weren't good enough" or hopefully something even more intuitive.

EDIT: It might also be worth pointing out that this perceived "superkeepering" never robs me of what I set out to achieve over a season, most of the time I win the cups I should win/reach the table position I should with the team/tactics I have. IMHO the team talks problems are far more annoying than this.

Some excellent observations there from SavageNick. I fully believe that if more people took the time to experiment they would find that changing tactics does have an effect on these things. But it's not just tactics, which is why re-loading and constantly changing tactics will not always eventually guarentee you a win. Things like moral, team talks, team gelling and many other things affect it. So just changing tactics and keeping everything else the same may lead to you still getting beaten over and over again in the same match.

Look fellas, to end the argument

It ended yesterday

A thank you to yourself, chopper and nick though - this is what i should have said yesterday.

his is nothing to do with superkeepers but to do with the match engine and the way it works, some games you really are MEANT to lose (i would imagine based on some sort of hidden boost to the opposition for some unfathamoble A.I reason).

So, how do you explain the fact that have just gone an entire season only losing once (away to Arsenal)?

SavageNick.

After a decent amount of testing, and watching every single SOT

I was in thread yesterday talking to you. You did not say you had watched every shot. I find that very hard to beleive, especially when you didn't bring it up, until now (after I had told you how the testing should work).

Also, when do you think you will beable to show us your results?

I really don't believe the "superkeeper-thingy" is a bug. Yes there were times when I lost a match because I just couldn't beat the goalie, but I have learned now that it was my own fault. See, what I used to do in a match in which I was about to lose or draw because of an outstanding goalie, I would put on an extra striker at around the 75th/80th minute and make the team's mentality very attacking.

This is just the opposite of what actually really works, nowadays when I'm not having my day I make the team's mentality normal and their tempo slow and somehow this always works for me. I can't really explain it, I guess it relaxes them or something. You have to understand that your team always wants to win, even if your mentality is fixed on ultra-defensive, so they'll always try to score.

@ SavageNick: To what team talks problems are you referring to? I never have any team talk problems. Or not that I know of anyway

EDIT: Never mind I've found your Team Talks topic

I had a similar game in the champions league second round with anderlecht. They beat me 1-0 away and then 1-0 at home. Whatever i did just didn't work. I got this feeling that i just wasn't going to win this game. I had a better team and everything and i couldn't score to save my life. 3 months ago i would of been livid. But now i just a accept that these things happen. Anderlecht faced liverpool in the qtr final and liverpool lost. So i didn't feel to bad afterwards

So, how do you explain the fact that have just gone an entire season only losing once (away to Arsenal)?

SavageNick.

What team are you, what year is it, what players do you have? Are you using an exploitative tactic? So many questions before I can consider your circumstances (for your info the ONLY time I get world beating teams is about 10 seasons in, I always start at best with a decent team and the only time I've ever started in a top league was with Napoli in FM2007 when their finances were awful).

Simply put there really are games that you cannot win unless you are world beaters, this I think is what half the people don't realise when they post in these threads, I've given up loading tests because honestly I've had games I've reloaded OVER 100 TIMES and gotten a ratio of (w:l:D): <5 >80 <15 (thats less than 5 wins, more than 80 losses and less than 15 draws), now you're thinking I was Derby vs Chelsea away yeh? Wrong we're talking me as promotion contenders vs a middling team who can't achieve ANYTHING (I chose these games specifically in FM06 + 2007). That is broken regardless of people saying its your tactics especially when the games were more often than not SUPERFICIALLY even or actually in my favour. We can keep going round in circles going yeh its a shame the feedback the game offers is pitiful and the ME doesn't really accurately represent who is the dominant team forever, but it achieves nothing, really SI this has been going on since 05 and probably before maybe rebuild the game rather than update it once a year?

Also @ Gentleman : Only in the premiership do I notice bogie teams and more often than not its.......for me........Everton. I think in all iterations of Fm I've played Everton a several hundred times and won maybe 5% of those games (even when as mighty Rushden and Diamonds in 2020 i Had the ENTIRE BRAZIL FIRST TEAM AS MY TEAM), in short in FM I hate Everton, In FM08 I've only been an English team once (Notts Forest) and got promoted at the same time Everton got relegated and (coincidentally?!?!?!) had my best ever first season in the prem.

Simply put there really are games that you cannot win unless you are world beaters

So you can win the games then if your team is good enough?

What team are you, what year is it, what players do you have? Are you using an exploitative tactic?

Year is 2020. I'm Sheffield Wednesday. My team? First eleven is as follows...

GK - Fernandes (Regen)

DL - Stephen Geyer (Regen)

DR - Carlos Miguel (regen)

DC - Abenzoar

DC - Sakho

MC - Distel Zola

MC - Ramon

AMR - Paul De Ceglie/Stephen Maitland (regen)

AML - Gabriel Torje

FC - Aquino

FC - Tadej Vidovic (regen)

I use a 4-2-2-2 tactic that I created myself.

(...)

Also since I'm just griping now: i tried to sign Arshavin for Forest in 2013 summer, he has played EVERY game for Russia since 2008 (I checked given what happened) he wanted to join, his club agreed the fee we were set, then his work permit gets denied and the next week he signs for LYON who he gets a permit for....am I missing something or is that just plain cheating on the part of the A.I? In real life he WOULD have gotten the permit for Forest and if he didn't meet the criteria to get one (HE DID) he certainly wouldn't of gotten a permit for LYON. Since ya know identical circumstances.

I know SavageNick has calmed down and all is good but in France they don't use work permits and that's why Arshavin could sign for Lyon

So you can win the games then if your team is good enough?

Year is 2020. I'm Sheffield Wednesday. My team? First eleven is as follows...

GK - Fernandes (Regen)

DL - Stephen Geyer (Regen)

DR - Carlos Miguel (regen)

DC - Abenzoar

DC - Sakho

MC - Distel Zola

MC - Ramon

AMR - Paul De Ceglie/Stephen Maitland (regen)

AML - Gabriel Torje

FC - Aquino

FC - Tadej Vidovic (regen)

I use a 4-2-2-2 tactic that I created myself.

I've found that if I have a team in the league as strong as me I will lose games to other teams (not the strong rival) BUT if there is no team to challenge me I can be undefeated in a season (only happens at the very end of long games and with a certain ammount of luck along the way).

Grats on doing so well with Wednesday. Out of interest (I haven't gotten past 2014 on this FM) who are the strong teams in the premiership (aside from you of course). I've always found that Chelsea slip away faster than the other 3 (Man U, Arse, Pool). Also Sunderland and Derby tend to do VERY well ( as in stay in the prem and get in Europe for/after 5 seasons ) in this FM which is ridiculous.

Also why don't France have work permits? Even if this is true it doesn't effect the fact that Arshavin fit EVERY criteria for getting a permit in England and it was denied which is stupid.

Have you EVER seen a real football team play 4-2-2-2?

Quite often but it's not reffered to as that. Afterall, it's basically a 4-4-2 with the wingers pushed up. Alot of clubs play like that.

No you can win games (every game) if you have a team with all CA's over 180 the game can't touch that because it doesn't allow itself to make teams that good.

That doesn't matter. If the game, like you said, goes into games NOT ALLOWING you to win, then it wouldn't matter what CA my players have. You're contradicting yourself. You say that a better team can go into a game, which they cannot win. But then you say that if your teamis better than the oppo team, then you can and will win?

So, how do you explain the fact that have just gone an entire season only losing once (away to Arsenal)?

SavageNick.

I was in thread yesterday talking to you. You did not say you had watched every shot. I find that very hard to beleive, especially when you didn't bring it up, until now (after I had told you how the testing should work).

Also, when do you think you will beable to show us your results?

You find it hard to believe that I've spent some time in the game watching "Full match"? If you don't know how to do it, I'll tell you how, its pretty simple really. Under "Highlight Mode" you select "Full Match". And thats it

Oh, and thanks for the advice about telling me how testing should work btw - In future before I ever post an opinion on anything (not just FM related) I'll ask your permission first and make sure I've put everything in an order that you are happy with. Thankyou again oh god of absolutely everything.

That was sarcastic btw - u may need to look it up.

I know SavageNick has calmed down and all is good but in France they don't use work permits and that's why Arshavin could sign for Lyon

SavageNick has calmed down? When was I worked up?

So you can win the games then if your team is good enough?

Year is 2020. I'm Sheffield Wednesday. My team? First eleven is as follows...

GK - Fernandes (Regen)

DL - Stephen Geyer (Regen)

DR - Carlos Miguel (regen)

DC - Abenzoar

DC - Sakho

MC - Distel Zola

MC - Ramon

AMR - Paul De Ceglie/Stephen Maitland (regen)

AML - Gabriel Torje

FC - Aquino

FC - Tadej Vidovic (regen)

I use a 4-2-2-2 tactic that I created myself.

So your in 2020 with alot of regens and we have absolutely no idea of how good the rest of the league is in quality and your saying you managed to only lose 1 game in the entire season? Well thats hardly conclusive evidence is it? The point I was making in the first place was that there are SOME games you simply can't win, no matter what you seem to do. The fact that u've had a season where u've only lost once doesn't discount this point, I've done the same thing myself, and since some people have already posted in this thread saying they've had the same thing means its rather unlikely I'm just making things up...

I never once said you were making things up, but you claim to have all this conclusive testing done but I still haven't seen it.

Well thats hardly conclusive evidence is it?

No, I never said it was but is your opinion conclusive proof either?

The point being made is that there is some games you simple cannot even get a point from. If that is the case, then what does the quality of the rest of the league have to do with anything?

Oh, and thanks for the advice about telling me how testing should work btw - In future before I ever post an opinion on anything (not just FM related) I'll ask your permission first and make sure I've put everything in an order that you are happy with. Thankyou again oh god of absolutely everything.

So much for a grown up debate.

Also why don't France have work permits? Even if this is true it doesn't effect the fact that Arshavin fit EVERY criteria for getting a permit in England and it was denied which is stupid.

I don't know why they don't have that. Actually as far as I'm concerned, work permits are only used in the UK, South Africa and Australia. Most other countries just have an upper limit an the amount of non-EU players/foreigners.

I do agree it's weird Arshavin didn't get the work permit though.

I know SavageNick has calmed down and all is good but in France they don't use work permits and that's why Arshavin could sign for Lyon

SavageNick has calmed down? When was I worked up?

I was being sarcastic (well not entirely, don't know how to explain it). I didn't mean anything by it.

I never once said you were making things up, but you claim to have all this conclusive testing done but I still haven't seen it.

No, I never said it was but is your opinion conclusive proof either?

The point being made is that there is some games you simple cannot even get a point from. If that is the case, then what does the quality of the rest of the league have to do with anything?

So much for a grown up debate.

That isn't the point at all, since I was the one who made it in the first place. The point is that sometimes the game decides (for whatever reason) that you aren't going to win. I didnt say that you are going to lose, I said you weren't going to win. And that point was simply an example of my ORIGINAL point that I made in this thread of how the 2d engine isn't alwasy consistent with the actual match engine, leading to people believing they have been superkeepered.

How exactly am I supposed to give conclusive evidence of this? Start a thread where i've taken a screenshot of EVERY SINGLE shot on target in the match, with a couple of frames before so you can completely understand the sitation (counter attack, defender pressure etc)?? Since a number of other people have already agreed with me and commended my observations I really dont think I can be bothered to spend the number of hours required to create "conclusive" video/stat evidence simply to satisfy you.

And if you want a grown up debate, don't attack some1 when all they have done is given an opinion. I notice you didnt make any snide comments to any1 else who has agreed with me, that looks alot like a personal attack.

I was being sarcastic (well not entirely, don't know how to explain it). I didn't mean anything by it.

Lol thats cool man, just messing

Lol thats cool man, just messing

Oh good I thought you were gonna kick my ass

And now I've also realized that I got you mixed up with both the thread starter and the guy with the Arshavin story

Sorry for any inconvenience

(damn only 4 images (smileys included!) per post)

And if you want a grown up debate, don't attack some1 when all they have done is given an opinion. I notice you didnt make any snide comments to any1 else who has agreed with me, that looks alot like a personal attack.

When did I attack you? I apologise if anything I posted came across that way, it wasn't intended.

Also I did get you mixed up with another posted who said there are game you're meant to lose.

How exactly am I supposed to give conclusive evidence of this?

You can't, you did however say you had done a 'decent amount of testing', which I would still like to see.

Peace

Can i just add that using "re-loading" as the basis for any sort of investigation is so pointless that it borders on a complete waste of time? Let me explain. For any given result the main controlling factor isn't only your tactics.

The accumulated importance of personnel, morale, fitness, complacency, media comments, team "chemistry", weather etc etc etc is imo more significant than the tactic used. Therefore, if the only thing you vary is the tactic (which is what happens if you re-load) then the results will never vary dramatically. You must also remember that it takes several games before a tactic reaches its full potential with a team, and for this reason alone re-loading is of dubious value.

This is not only specific to earmack, but to anyone else using re-loading as a basis to measure if you can win at all.