Why do Players decline not only Physically??

I do not understand why players decline once they hit 30 at such a rate technically, mentally and physically that they become totally useless. This is totally wrong and ruins the game a bit for me.

Paul Scholes can still hit a pass as good as he ever could and still can spot a pass good as he ever could, the only difference between him now and when he was younger is that he isn't as quick, more injury prone and struggles to finish a game or play several games in a week.

This should be shown in the game and I expect to be included in 2009

Physical stats do deteriorate more than technical and mental stats. That is already in.

I'm not too sure what you're saying tbh. You start off saying physical stats drop too quickly and then you say that's what happens IRL, but then you say it should be included in 09!? Sorry if i'm being a bit thick here, but what is it you're actually saying?

I think he's trying to say that mental and technical stats drop too quickly, in his opinion - I don't think he's complaining about physical stats at all.

That's my reading of it, anyway.

As it is, I disagree with him - I'd love all players in the world to continue the way Paul Scholes does - but most lose their peak in their 30's, and end up playing in a lower league. Not everyone has the longevity of Scholes or Sheringham.

^^ Ah right, that makes sense.

BenMRowe is right and perhaps your Scholes example was a bad choice because Scholes has never been fast or particularly energetic, so maintaining his ability as a world class footballer doesn't rely on his physical ability so much.

Take the likes of Micahel Owen and Robbie Fowler as examples of players who lose an element of physical ability and their game loses something and the don't produce the results they used to. IMO a majority of footballers ability is based on physical ability, so when it goes they lose out in all areas of their game, compare Beckham and Wright-Philips, as Beckhams physical ability declines his game will remain relatively decent because his game was never based on speed or strength, whereas if Wright-Philips physical ability declines he will find it extremely tough in the Premiership as his game is based on speed alone.

Certain players like fowler are dependant upon their pace to be good players, so by the time they hit 30 they are useless. Centre backs and central midfielders (especially DM's) are often able to offset the decline in pace with technical ability. The only problem in this game is that players decline mentally as they get older (despite the fact the game actually says they mentally improve as they get older). I don't think players should lose the technical abilities they do, infact, defenders are probably far better at marking and tackling at 32/33 than they are at 22/23 with the years of experience and practice of doing it, but by the time they are 32/33 you'd be looking at that 16 year old defender in your reserves rather than what should be a journeyman defender for back-up.

People have said it before, physical, mental & technical need separating from each other and having their own scales applied, also strength is something that is very strange - lets face it some of the worlds strongest men are 40's even 50's so the game makes it impossible for a player to retain his strength as he gets older, and in fact, a lot of players tend to try and increase their strength to held them sit deeper and prolong their usefulness and subsequently, their careers.

did fowler ever have pace? dont remember him ever being particularly fast. mentally players shouldn't really drop that much with age unless its directly linked to lack of stamina to train well or a drop in motivation.

Fowler didn't really have blistering pace, but he did have fantastic acceleration which he used to great effect to take on defenders and create room for himself.

Back on topic...some players do seem to decline far to quickly in areas outside the physical stats, however, I have seen others last a longer time (although not at EPL standard). I think it is quite random, which is the only way it should be. For every Scholes and Sherringham there is a Fowler and McManaman.

Yeh Im sorry i misworded it wrong but I'm Sol Campbell is still going and defends as well as he always has, yet he isn't as quick as he was.

On the Robbie Fowler example...Robbie Fowler if given a chance will still put it away and yes he has lost pace, but on the game his ability to finish will diminish as well.

Another example...Beckham is still going to take freekicks brilliantly at 36..37 but he will be slower and struggle to finish the game. The game shows his physical decline but also forces his freekick stat down in which it wouldn't as he got older

Agree with santy, the game has always stated that the age ranges where players peak is generally lower the further up the pitch you go. It states that defenders shoudl peak in there early 30's but by then erosion has set in on the physical stats and the others soon start to follow, the taining and player development seems to pretty much stop after 24-25 years old so how can a player peak after this point if the only way for stats (minus the odd mental one) goes down?

Never seen the decline as rapid as in FM08 before after 35th birthday players started becoming a liability but could still play the odd game now hitting the 30's is a death knel for most players

This thread has hit on something. Notice how we've started debating the way in which players decline. Players generally decline in varying ways and it affects their game in varying ways. A loss of a yard of pace hasn't overly affected Paul Scholes' game, for example, because pace was never his main attribute. Ryan Giggs, on the other hand, has had to make some quite considerable adjustments to his game in order to enjoy the longevity at the top that he has.

My point is that FM doesn't take account of this. Decline once a player reaches 30, in my opinion, is too sudden, too stark and too uniform - that is, it affects all players in pretty much the same way. There simply isn't the variety in the nature of decline experienced by footballers in real life reflected in the game. That is why it can be frustrating.

totally agree...maybe SI games can talk to us about why they have set it this way

They should higher the age boundaries of when players hit there peak for example in FM08 strikers are 26-31 thats ok I think midfielders from 27-32 defenders the same i think but it should be more like 28-33 for defender and goalies are 31-35 but they should be more like 32-36 etc.

totally agree...maybe SI games can talk to us about why they have set it this way

could have been a bug.

or maybe we need to re-sort our training schedules out.

for example a player will drop their CA with age. if your still training them alot in physical and aerobics then that wont really help an old player because those stats will drop anyway. and considering we may not have upped their mental training or whatever the equivalent maybe (dont know if it's actuallly called mental training) then that too will also drop.

haven't tried it out to see though.

I'd quite like some kind of systemk where mental and technical stats decline by very small amounts once a player starts getting on a bit. My reasons for this are that a player who is training week in and week out and playing a few games will generally stay sharp when it comes to shooting, passing, crossing etc, also i feel that a sharp footballing mind once it reaches it's peak will not deteriorate unless the player takes a prolonged break from football.

Physical stats are obviously going to decline with age but i think that this decline is too swift at the moment and needs to be tweaked. Also i would like to see this decline linked to player rep or potential ability as well as clube stature and training facilities. Hopefully implementing a system like this will allow teams to get the occasional player like Scholes or Giggsy who can play at top level past their peak age ,relevant to the teams stature and facilities.

Finally i think a good way of implementing decline due to age might be to link it to conditioning. For instance; Player A has been a world star striker for a top prem team, he is now 33 and is getting on. His physical stats have declined a little but more importantly now when he plays a game his condtion falls far faster than that of other younger players meaning it is often best to play him for less time. On top of that his condition does not recover as quickly between games, leading to the manager resting him for say half of the season. This would mean that he is still good enough technically to play for this top side but he can't do it as often or for as long.

Just a couple of ideas that i think could be implemented well.

Also think of guys like Strachan, David Weir, Maldini, Baresi etc. With the right training these guys kept/keep going! However on fm Weir doesnt even get a game as his physical stats are'nt worth a toss! I also had to laugh on my game Raul has signed for Aberdeen!! He was surplus to requirements at the ripe old age of 32!

This particular problem becomes very obvious when you compare the starting database with what you'll have after a few years in game. When you start up the game there are plenty of 33-35 year olds capable of playing at the top level, then there's loads of 35-38 year olds that are more than good enough for lower leagues although their physical stats in the main are low. A few years in there'll be no-one. It wasn't that bad at all in FM07.

I also agree with what has said above, technical and especially mental stats shouldn't decrease at such a high rate when the player is still regularly playing. Physical stats should drop, but not as early and rapidly as they currently do. If Teddy Sheringham had been playing in the FM world he wouldn't have had any attribute over 3 by the time he finished his career, yet in the real life he was still playing in the Premiership. Exceptional cases like him should at least be remotely possible in FM as well.

Well said Pricey, some good ideas put across.

In FM I'd like to see a few veterans being able to help a struggling up and coming team like Hull did with Windass and Barmby IRL.

Sadly in the game after only a few months, these players are considered worthless and only good for the BSP league, same with Giggs after a year.

I know IRL Giggs is not the player he once was but he his still a capable player and if he ever joined a lower end Premiership team like West Brom, he could have a lot to offer them for a couple of years. Sadly in FM he is almost finished by the end of the first season.

I'm sure SI will figure this out, it's a kind of a balancing act, we don't want everyone to play forever but we don't want our entire team to need zimmerframes by the age of 31 either.

It does seem a little too rapid a decline, though I do think most players lose some of their technical abilities along with their physical. Mental quickness does deteriorate. As the body becomes less flexible and powerful certain 'moves' are less available as well. But some things do seem to be able to continuously improve, as I see with the 30, 40, and 50-year olds I play sport with: Anticipation, Positioning, Teamwork, for example. But other things, like 'Off the Ball' might decline because the player doesn't have the juice to continuously indulge in breaks to open space.

All in all, I'd be happy if the decline for players had some variation, and also wasn't as rapid. We should see a few Sherringhams in the game, so that it was much harder to predict the decline of any particular player.