Why?

Ok I have a question...

Why has the cheating suggestion been brought up a lot more since FM 08 came out? I don't recall seeing really any topics before on CM or FM suggesting that the AI might be cheating you.

I think some people are annoyed at some of the unrealistic things that happen in the FM 08 match engine, I have stated before that I am one of them lol.

It just seems silly when you have players that are far superior to your opposition yet at times they thread pin point through balls which evade your defence even though you are set to ultra defensive etc... and the fact that a player with about 4 long shots and 6 finishing can smack one into the top corner too frequently from 25 yards.

I dont personally think it cheats but I think something isn't right with the FM 08 match engine and it feels more of a lottery in matches than it did in previous FM's and CM 03/04.

I notice when people say it has cheated them, someone will always come in and say "It's your tactics" or... "check out so and so's tips on tactics that can make you win loads of games" Erm well i'm not sure about you but it seems poor when the only way you can gaurantee yourself more victorys is to use a tactic which just can't go wrong. Almost like you have to develop something which counteracts the opposition but also makes it feel like a game rather than a simulation.

Why can't it be that you make a tactic that suits a certain teams style and what kind of players they have rather than a specific tactic someone created that just gaurantees victories? In past FM's I found that if you experimented like managers do in real life you could find a good tactic to suit your team, but in other teams with different players it didn't work. That's how it should be done, but in FM 08 I don't feel that to be the case for some reason.

I have just started a new career today on FM 07, played a few matches and the match engine seems awesome, defenders with good tackling will actually stick their foot in and stop flowing moves rather than get sliced open by mediocre teams and players. The faster players out run the slower ones, the bigger ones out muscle the lighter ones, the taller ones out jump the smaller ones 80%-90% of the time. It felt real, like my team and tactics were meaning something and it was showing too, the first few times I watched a match on FM 08 I was a little confused and felt the feel of older FM's wasn't there any more.

For whatever reason the match engine has changed in FM 08 from 07 and I don't feel for the better.

Anyway that's my take on the whole issue, sorry to bring this subject up again that should be dead and buried but it's hard to leave it alone when so many people are feeling the same frustrations and the 'cheating' term is being brought up more than ever.

And why did you need to open up a new thread for this when a thread/poll was started about this just yesterday??

Because the match engine, is (In most opinions), not very good. Hence the reason people think it cheats. Not only that, the team talks have great bearing on the game. I've contemplated going back to 07 until 09 comes out. I just like the new features of 08, which is what I assume keeps most people playing

And why did you need to open up a new thread for this when a thread/poll was started about this just yesterday??

Good point lol. Suppose I did it so I could ask the question and make it a debate rather than post a reply to the poll topic that most people probably wouldn't reply to anyway.

Because the match engine, is (In most opinions), not very good.

Most? No, it's because the match engine gets more sophisticated, but the brains of some of the less smart gamers don't.

Because the match engine, is (In most opinions), not very good.

Don't think that's true at all, I think the consensus is that the match engine is the best it has ever been, but there are more annoyances than in previous versions.

IMO a lot of people dislike FM08 because it's getting harder and harder, FM07 was pick up and play without having to do any research whereas FM08 really is quite hard when in LLM.

I also think that bugs have been widely publicised on these forums and people jump on the band wagon e.g. they read about the corner gltich, their defender scores 2 in one game and they instantly blame the corner glitch, because they read about it.

Don't think that's true at all, I think the consensus is that the match engine is the best it has ever been, but there are more annoyances than in previous versions.

IMO a lot of people dislike FM08 because it's getting harder and harder, FM07 was pick up and play without having to do any research whereas FM08 really is quite hard when in LLM.

I also think that bugs have been widely publicised on these forums and people jump on the band wagon e.g. they read about the corner gltich, their defender scores 2 in one game and they instantly blame the corner glitch, because they read about it.

I agree with this 08 is harder than 07. But imo this is a good thing as it means that proper fm fans will be able to enjoy the game more so than before. Bring on 09 and keep it up SI

TEAM TALK, if your tactic is good but you lose often it is your team talk, i've seen me shoot 20 times and lose 1-0 but i realise where i went wrong, there is no "cheats"

I totally understand where it comes from. It comes from players who cannot win easily, so therefore, it must be the games fault.

When I play Top Spin 3, I always bemoan that the AI can get to balls that they shouldn't. The AI is cheating but hold on, my mother, yes, my MOTHER can beat these top players and I can't. That to me says I'm wrong, the AI doesn't cheat, I'm just not very good.

Like Nomis07 said, most gamers wouldn't notice any bugs with the game if they didn't come on here and see them. I know that I've been playing FM for years and I often totally miss bugs in the game but when I come on here, my attention is drawn to them.

Like Nomis07 said, most gamers wouldn't notice any bugs with the game if they didn't come on here and see them. I know that I've been playing FM for years and I often totally miss bugs in the game but when I come on here, my attention is drawn to them.

I only signed up to these forums in November with FM08, i've been playing CM/FM since CM97 and this is the first time i've ever patched a game lol. I blame these forums for me starting to see bugs.

TEAM TALK, if your tactic is good but you lose often it is your team talk, i've seen me shoot 20 times and lose 1-0 but i realise where i went wrong, there is no "cheats"

Team talks, thats another explanation I have read from people about why you lose a 2-0 lead or even 3-0 in some cases.

It shouldn't be that way though, in real life only rarely would you let a 2-0 lead slip because of a dodgy team talk. If you said to the players "i'm pleased" that's usually a decent team talk in real life. if you say "Don't get complacent" thats another good team talk. So why is it sometimes you say those at half time and then lose? If the team talk does come into play like that then it's just adding to the list of things I find unrealistic about FM 08.

I love FM and CM before Eidos and Si split. I would never usually criticise any of the games even if i spotted glitches but I feel strongly about FM 08 that I can't help but question some of the downfalls. It seems to me that the people who love FM 08 that much are not agreeing to the faults in the match engine or anything else and saying it's team talks and tactics.

Then the others who love FM but see the flaws in 08 say it's cheating or the match engine isn't that good. I don't agree to the cheating but I agree to the second part.

I keep saying this and I sound like a stuck record but I have started a new career on FM 07 and the match engine just feels 'right' I can't explain why or how but it just does and when I compared it to 08 it felt much better.

Ok so to some this up, in FM 08 'apperantly' there is a messed up re-gen system which doesen't make the game as enjoyable after about 10-15 years. There is a corner bug. People have complained about the new confidence system. People have said the scouting is wrong aswell.

In previous versians I can't remember seeing those kind of faults myself. Again i'll use FM 07 as an example. As far as I could see in my game at 2021 the re-gens were all fine and nothing was wrong. I don't remember a corner bug, the confidence system is pretty much how it should be. and the scouting is good, I have had instances were the scout has told me a player is 6 stars potential and I have bought him and in 5 years time he's turned out awesome so the scouting hasn't messed me about on FM 07.

Ok so to some this up, in FM 08 'apperantly' there is a messed up re-gen system which doesen't make the game as enjoyable after about 10-15 years. There is a corner bug. People have complained about the new confidence system. People have said the scouting is wrong aswell.

These are all issues that have been blown out of proportion though. Newgens aren't the best and could do with a lot of work, but you can get past it and there are plenty of top quality newgens created. The corner "exploit" (not bug) is easily avoided with a few tacitcal changes. The confidence system isn't perfect, but only affects us in extreme scenarios or if the user tells their board they'll do something , but don't do it. As for scouting, it's always been wrong lol.

Yeah they are issues, but easily avoided/worked round, and yeah we shouldn't have to work round them, but all games have elements that don't function perfectly, we shouldn't expect FM to be any different.

These are all issues that have been blown out of proportion though. Newgens aren't the best and could do with a lot of work, but you can get past it and there are plenty of top quality newgens created. The corner "exploit" (not bug) is easily avoided with a few tacitcal changes. The confidence system isn't perfect, but only affects us in extreme scenarios or if the user tells their board they'll do something , but don't do it. As for scouting, it's always been wrong lol.

Yeah they are issues, but easily avoided/worked round, and yeah we shouldn't have to work round them, but all games have elements that don't function perfectly, we shouldn't expect FM to be any different.

Yeh maybe they have been blown out of proportion, I never managed to play more than a year on FM 08 because of the frustrations so I can't say if the re-gens flaw is true or not and I can't say anything about the confidence because I never experienced anything unusual in mine.

I'm not sure about the scouting always being poor you know. I was glued to my career on FM 07 and I went all the way to 2021 and I can't remember once that I had an issue with the scouting. If i had good scouts then their evaluation of players was usually spot on. For instance a scout tells me a players potential is 3 stars, I sign him and he never really improves greatly. Another time I signed a defender which the scout said would turn into a leading Premiership centre back and by the time he was 20 he was top class. So it makes me think that maybe the scouting problem has just come about worse than ever in 08?

Again though I feel Si have done a good job with 08 and there are some great new features and I know I would never be able to create a game half as good as what they have so I would never criticise them. I just have disapointments about certain things on it that meant I had to go back to FM 07 to enjoy it againm which is a shame because I love the new features on 08, just not the match engine.

Again though I feel Si have done a good job with 08 and there are some great new features and I know I would never be able to create a game half as good as what they have so I would never criticise them. I just have disapointments about certain things on it that meant I had to go back to FM 07 to enjoy it againm which is a shame because I love the new features on 08, just not the match engine.

It's actually a shock to the system to have a thread criticising the game, but not turn into a rant lol and i'll thank you for that.

I honestly think if you gave it a little more time, over a season, you would get used to the match engine and start to enjoy it.

FM 2008 has just continued to add more to the game in terms of depth and therefore complexity, a fair jump from CM2 days for sure and for some of us its too much to keep up with (or still have fun doing so) the challenge to us all is that we have to keep up with it and delve even deeper into our managerial expertise to get results.

I for one like this challenge but i can understand why many people feel less joy in the game as complexity/difficulty increases, it seems to feel like a game that becomes more for the hardcore of us and might loose SI some of the more casual players.

Maybe thats where FM Online comes in?

It's actually a shock to the system to have a thread criticising the game, but not turn into a rant lol and i'll thank you for that.

I honestly think if you gave it a little more time, over a season, you would get used to the match engine and start to enjoy it.

Thanks There is no way i'd ever resort to criticising Si, they have created the best football management series on the planet.

Maybe you are right, for the time being i'm enjoying FM 07 again with a new career, I started unemployed and applied for a job with a Spanish Segunda B team in the first week called Huesca and to my amazement they offered me the job lol. Never coached in Spain before and they are tipped for the drop so it's a big challenge. When I took over the media said that it was a shock appointment that they had employed an unknown englishman to manage the club and I had to agree lol.

i think they should make it harder get rid of casual gamers it not for them,bring on fm09!

Most? No, it's because the match engine gets more sophisticated, but the brains of some of the less smart gamers don't.

Perfect response.

In short - FM is becoming an exceptional simulation - and as such requires much more time, effort and intellect than previous FMs - the ability to analyse problems is key to FM08, and when people can't find those problems, the easy solution is "this game cheats".

To the OP - you will notice a correllation (sp?) of threads compared to when schools in the UK break up - hence, for the next couple of months brace yourself for a deluge of nonsence threads accusing the game of cheating. *sigh*

But should the fact that a player isnt good enough stop him playing the game? Because (may be wrong) people don't buy a game every year and play a lot to suck at it, everyone wants success?

If the game gets more complex and people don't eventually SI would run out of people to play the game?

I am nearly not good enough at Fm2008 and it took me until april to get good at it

When the players on the pitch display a modicum of common sense, then I'd be happy to say it's an exceptional simulation, and not before.

I'm all for making the game harder but I don't see how the match engine has improved since 07, more unrealistic things happen that shouldnt. How can a poor player out run or dribble past players that have better pace and have tackling that should easily rob these players with things like 6 dribbling? I played 10 games on FM 08 before I got disapointed with it enough to not carry on.

In 10 matches i'd say in 6 of those matches a player scored from 25 yards, this is the conference south...

One match i watched, my player had a shot and it deflected off the defender and went past the goalkeeper who had rushed out to the edge of the box... the ball stopped way before the line, their defender was miles ahead of my striker and it looked like he was going to clear it and then he stopped before the ball and my striker tapped it in. Surely I would have been happy to score? But I love realism in games and that for me was one of the sillyest thngs ive ever witnessed on any FM game.

I totally understand where it comes from. It comes from players who cannot win easily, so therefore, it must be the games fault.

When I play Top Spin 3, I always bemoan that the AI can get to balls that they shouldn't. The AI is cheating but hold on, my mother, yes, my MOTHER can beat these top players and I can't. That to me says I'm wrong, the AI doesn't cheat, I'm just not very good.

Like Nomis07 said, most gamers wouldn't notice any bugs with the game if they didn't come on here and see them. I know that I've been playing FM for years and I often totally miss bugs in the game but when I come on here, my attention is drawn to them.

I agree. It is skill, just because your losing and it is not going your way does not mean that the AI is cheating. It is just generally that you are not very good or you would be winning