The 'the game cheats, 'its your tactics' or 'its a bit of both poll'

Anyone who comes on these forums on a regular or even irregular basis will notice that every other day someone starts a thread off that usually goes along the lines 'this game is s**t cos I lost to xyz after having 4,000 Shots on goal they had 1 shot and there striker who has one leg scored'

To which some reply yes the game 'cheats', others reply its 'your tactics', I was just wondering how big the two respective camps were. I am not interested in the actual relative merits of the two camps I just want to know how big they are.

The options are

Yes - the Game Cheats

No - its your tactics

Its a bit of both - the game cheats but the flawed tactics magnify it.

I personally am in the:

Its a bit of both camp

It doesn't cheat, and it's not just your tactics.

It's your tactics and team talks - thats what it comes down to.

By definition, AI cannot cheat. But then, by definition, it has intelligence. Perhaps more intelligence than you would expect for the manager of, say Witton Albion - so that's why people accuse it of cheating, because it is more intelligent than they would expect of the team. However, anything the AI can do you can do, it can all be countered tactically, so I'm saying 'It's your tactics', even though that's a horrible cliché that everyone is bored of now .

It doesn't cheat, and it's not just your tactics.

It's your tactics and team talks - thats what it comes down to.

Sorry tactics/team talks are all in together.

I think it's actually down to the 'blame someone else mentality' that this country seems to be adopting. No one takes responsibility for their own actions any more in real life so why should they in a game? Particularly when you can be as stupid as you want and then take someone else to court when you have some form of accident.

The games not perfect but it also doesn't cheat. You as the player can win any game you go into. Therefore if you lose or have strange results it is down to something you're doing or not doing. Whether the tactical interface needs to be more clear to help people struggling is a different matter.

Have got to go to bed now, but from the looks of the results so far most people are in the 'its ur tactics' camp. Which suprises me some what as the frequent posts accusing the game of cheating would suggest a far larger group of people believe it happens than is being shown here.

I will be interested to see what the results look like in the morning.

Have got to go to bed now, but from the looks of the results so far most people are in the 'its ur tactics' camp. Which suprises me some what as the frequent posts accusing the game of cheating would suggest a far larger group of people believe it happens than is being shown here.

I will be interested to see what the results look like in the morning.

You have to remember the posts are frequent, but the people who say they are wrong are in there like a flash and there's even more of them. Plus I think the amount of cheat shouts has increased during the day since the schools got off for summer, funny that

last night i went outside and played real football (well 6 a side lol) and we had at least a dozen shots whereas the other team had 2.

final score 0-2 to them

i have also played FM games where I myself have only managed 1 shot on goal in a 1-0 victory despite the downpour of efforts upon my own poor keeper so it does go both way if you get the tactics correct.

if you read this forum it would seem like this situation happens a lot more in FM than it does in real life (although i have not noticed it too much in my own experience) i am sure SI research the statistics of how often things occur in football and hopefully if they read the forums they would consider reviewing the likelyhood of this situation for FM09

what more can you ask for

Lets examine AI cheating outside match engine :

AI teams use super "gray" players , Human teams do not

AI teams in non active leagues have blank finances so they can buy whatever they want , Humans have finite financial resources

AI teams can buy players for less money than you do

AI managers with CA 50 will always use optimal tactics against you

AI teams without scouts (in non active leagues) will always spot the good player before you

High PA players can appear in clubs with crappy facilities , you may have a perfect academy and never get any good youngster.

I call this cheating

*I finished school at 1989

*English is not my first language

Lets examine AI cheating outside match engine :

AI teams use super "gray" players , Human teams do not

This isn't really the AI cheating but is a recognised issue with grey players being too good. I think this was improved a lot in the 8.0.2 patch though to be honest.

AI teams in non active leagues have blank finances so they can buy whatever they want , Humans have finite financial resources

This doesn't affect me as I run most of the top leagues anyway. Further down the leagues reputation counts for a lot more than money so again the AI teams in non active leagues doesn't affect me. But mostly I personally expect these kind of things in non-active leagues. Most people who've played FM for a while know that for the game to more in-depth you need to run more leagues. Again this is not cheating, just the way the game is set up to minimise slowdown on inactive leagues.

AI teams can buy players for less money than you do

The issues with the transfer market are well documented and I think most people want to see this improved for FM09. This is in no way the game cheating you, just a problem with the transfer market that will hopefully be fixed.

AI managers with CA 50 will always use optimal tactics against you

This I do slightly agree with. Against human opponents poor AI managers do seem to be a little too tactically brilliant at times. I'd like to see more mistakes and poor performances from teams managed by poor AI managers.

AI teams without scouts (in non active leagues) will always spot the good player before you

I've not noticed this so wouldn't like to comment either way.

High PA players can appear in clubs with crappy facilities , you may have a perfect academy and never get any good youngster.

This is perfectly acceptable to me. In real life some of the best players in the world have started out at unknown clubs, while at the same time some teams with excellent facilities have not had a youngster come through the ranks for years (Chelsea anyone?). That being said I would like to see teams who have a proven track record for developing youngsters in real life get a higher percentage of the high PA regens in the game (teams like Notts Forest, West Ham, Ajax, Sporting Lisbon etc)

I call this cheating

*I finished school at 1989

*English is not my first language

I don't call any of the things you list above cheating, just area of the game that could do with some improvement.

here is a proof of game cheating: i played a game in 21 februabry, AI team played game a game in 24 february and went to extra time and penalties, 28 february me vs the AI team, AI players pysical condition all above 95%... enough said on that because i have better trainign facilities, better couchs and better schudles,

another proof: AI godly passes to the back of our defense, ball gets to the AI striker that has horrible physical condition, crappy mental stats and yet he manages to outrun 2 defenders that are in perfect physical conditions and have all instructions to always be on defensive duty

another: doesnt matter what stats AI players has, almost every long shot will be goal, GK won't move no matter how good his stats are, my players won't pressure him.

another: 2 players running torwards ball but comming from different directions, AI player always gets there 1st.

another: deflected balls always go near AI players.

another: AI underpressure tackles, AI player can come from behind, while tackling he turns 180º degrees and ball will most of times ball goes to an open space in my midfield and another AI players will get the ball, my players will just kick the ball to the directions they are turned in...

need more?

here is a proof of game cheating: i played a game in 21 februabry, AI team played game a game in 24 february and went to extra time and penalties, 28 february me vs the AI team, AI players pysical condition all above 95%... enough said on that

another proof: AI godly passes to the back of our defense, ball gets to the AI striker that has horrible physical condition, crappy mental stats and yet he manages to outrun 2 defenders that are in perfect physical conditions.

another: doesnt matter what stats AI players has, almost every long shot will be goal, GK won't move no matter how good his stats are.

another: 2 players running torwards ball but comming from different directions, AI player always gets there 1st.

another: deflected balls always go near AI players.

need more?

Thank you for that rock solid proof that you've provided

I'm convinced.

Seeing how the match engine doesn't differentiate between human and AI controlled sides, I don't see how it could "cheat".

You can argue that the match engine favors defense and counterattacks, thus leading to those 1 shot 1 goal by the AI. But that's not cheating; just a flawed ME.

How about: The AI actually knows what it's doing when it comes to tactics and all the sliders while most users don't.

That's the crux of it.

here is a proof of game cheating: i played a game in 21 februabry, AI team played game a game in 24 february and went to extra time and penalties, 28 february me vs the AI team, AI players pysical condition all above 95%... enough said on that because i have better trainign facilities, better couchs and better schudles,

another proof: AI godly passes to the back of our defense, ball gets to the AI striker that has horrible physical condition, crappy mental stats and yet he manages to outrun 2 defenders that are in perfect physical conditions and have all instructions to always be on defensive duty

another: doesnt matter what stats AI players has, almost every long shot will be goal, GK won't move no matter how good his stats are, my players won't pressure him.

another: 2 players running torwards ball but comming from different directions, AI player always gets there 1st.

another: deflected balls always go near AI players.

another: AI underpressure tackles, AI player can come from behind, while tackling he turns 180º degrees and ball will most of times ball goes to an open space in my midfield and another AI players will get the ball, my players will just kick the ball to the directions they are turned in...

need more?

Hahahahahahaha...........................

Oh you've got to love people on this forum some times!!

another proof: AI godly passes to the back of our defense, ball gets to the AI striker that has horrible physical condition, crappy mental stats and yet he manages to outrun 2 defenders that are in perfect physical conditions and have all instructions to always be on defensive duty

Happens IRL.

another: doesnt matter what stats AI players has, almost every long shot will be goal, GK won't move no matter how good his stats are, my players won't pressure him.

You're over egging the pudding to try and make your point more solid, this happens now and again rather than almost every shot.

another: 2 players running torwards ball but comming from different directions, AI player always gets there 1st.

Not true.

another: deflected balls always go near AI players.

Not true.

What is it with people and exaggerating about this crap?! I don't think the AI cheats, but I have a lot of time for people willing to give valid reasoned arguments for why they think it does cheat, exaggerations and lies only serve to discredit more reasonable forum users.

This isn't really the AI cheating but is a recognised issue with grey players being too good. I think this was improved a lot in the 8.0.2 patch though to be honest.

Any gray player with CA over 1 is AI cheating , 8.0.2 was wonderfull , Valladolid's "gray" GK had double diggits in all his goalkeeping skills , my Wisla's real goalie did not .

This doesn't affect me as I run most of the top leagues anyway. Further down the leagues reputation counts for a lot more than money so again the AI teams in non active leagues doesn't affect me. But mostly I personally expect these kind of things in non-active leagues. Most people who've played FM for a while know that for the game to more in-depth you need to run more leagues. Again this is not cheating, just the way the game is set up to minimise slowdown on inactive leagues.

I run all top leagues as well, the 3 Scandinavian , the Russian and the Bulgarian , you say that i should be forced to run leagues like the Italian and the Spanish to have a more in-depth experience? Why they dont simply put a sticker "IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO LOAD SPAIN DONT BOTHER" on the box ?

IMO there should be a limit in how much teams from inactive leagues can spend, a realistic one.

The issues with the transfer market are well documented and I think most people want to see this improved for FM09. This is in no way the game cheating you, just a problem with the transfer market that will hopefully be fixed.

Ok it is not cheating , it is just AI using a problem in the transfer market to gain advantage over me.

This is perfectly acceptable to me. In real life some of the best players in the world have started out at unknown clubs, while at the same time some teams with excellent facilities have not had a youngster come through the ranks for years (Chelsea anyone?). That being said I would like to see teams who have a proven track record for developing youngsters in real life get a higher percentage of the high PA regens in the game (teams like Notts Forest, West Ham, Ajax, Sporting Lisbon etc)

IIRC in the manual it says that better youth facilities = more talented young people , you are saying that what it should be written is " dont bother with facilities , sell them and get more scouts" , i think they should fix the manual.

I don't call any of the things you list above cheating, just area of the game that could do with some improvement.

I do call them cheating and yes the reason i am a bit offensive in my posts is to see the game improving , not that it is bad ( and not that you do not have valid points ) but you know if we didn't moan in the forums for years we would still play BMP kind of games

here is a proof of game cheating: i played a game in 21 februabry, AI team played game a game in 24 february and went to extra time and penalties, 28 february me vs the AI team, AI players pysical condition all above 95%... enough said on that because i have better trainign facilities, better couchs and better schudles,

another proof: AI godly passes to the back of our defense, ball gets to the AI striker that has horrible physical condition, crappy mental stats and yet he manages to outrun 2 defenders that are in perfect physical conditions and have all instructions to always be on defensive duty

another: doesnt matter what stats AI players has, almost every long shot will be goal, GK won't move no matter how good his stats are, my players won't pressure him.

another: 2 players running torwards ball but comming from different directions, AI player always gets there 1st.

another: deflected balls always go near AI players.

another: AI underpressure tackles, AI player can come from behind, while tackling he turns 180º degrees and ball will most of times ball goes to an open space in my midfield and another AI players will get the ball, my players will just kick the ball to the directions they are turned in...

need more?

It's your tactics. Or your training. All of this.

Proof? These examples very rarely - I honestly cannot remember the last time - happen to me. Is that proof enough?

AI teams can buy players for less money than you do

Chopper 69 answer most of the questions in this post, but this one quoted is constantly cropping up.

The somewhat annoying answer is that players' prices fluctuate. It depends on rivalry for starters (very annoying - it's TOO hard to buy from rivals; hopefully they've toned it down for FM09), but mainly when an AI team gets a player cheaper it's because that's the player's value at the time.

My example:

As Chelski, I wanted Micah Richards, but had set myself some rules, one being that I would always try to break even on my transfers from the second year onwards. Man City's asking price was around £62m in the summer of 2008. Jan 09, their asking price was about £55m. Summer 09 it leaped to £75m (I think they'd sold Corluka by then, so Micah was more valuable than ever). In Jan 2010, I got him for £38m.

It happened a few times for me - the answer is to keep at the AI teams the same way they come at you with loads of offers for the same player. I've bought Rossi, Messi and Ronaldo in the same way (by 2018).

In this, I think it's a good thing, and in many ways mirrors real life -- things change in football. Whether it's club finances, player/manager relationships, ambition, whatever, prices change. If Ronaldo stays at Man Yoo this season and doesn't recover from his ankle injury until Xmas, then has a crappy second half of the season, will Real still offer £80m? And if he has an ineffectual season AFTER that (perhaps he is afraid to try his tricks or his dribbling since his operation), would Man Yoo still demand £100's of millions? Or would they settle for £20m for a player that appears to have lost his edge? Okay, it's unlikely, but his value is fluctuating. Now, if Calderon sees Barca buy him for £20-30m, will he be banging the screen and yelling "THE AI CHEATS!!" ?

Oh, wait, that's real life.

"Any gray player with CA over 1 is AI cheating , 8.0.2 was wonderfull , Valladolid's "gray" GK had double diggits in all his goalkeeping skills , my Wisla's real goalie did not . "

Why is it cheating? Surely it's just random, a team you don't know anything about. It's a shortfall in the game, not cheating.

"I run all top leagues as well, the 3 Scandinavian , the Russian and the Bulgarian , you say that i should be forced to run leagues like the Italian and the Spanish to have a more in-depth experience? Why they dont simply put a sticker "IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO LOAD SPAIN DONT BOTHER" on the box ?

IMO there should be a limit in how much teams from inactive leagues can spend, a realistic one."

Ditto. A shorfall, not cheating. Very much agree with your last line, though.

"IIRC in the manual it says that better youth facilities = more talented young people , you are saying that what it should be written is " dont bother with facilities , sell them and get more scouts" , i think they should fix the manual. "

You can have a player with a PA of 195, but without decent youth facilities he will never realise that potential. If you have a player with a PA of 140 and decent youth setup, the 140 player is more likely to play for his country. Scouting is a well-known issue, though. Hopefully it'll be fixed.

In general, you raise some good points, but not about a cheating AI. For the AI to cheat would take a conscious decision to manipulate the shortcomings of the game. It can't. It has no motivation.

People really need to stop being so paranoid. Team talks, tactics, any manner of things on FM08 have to be right to have constant success -- probably too much emphasis on team talks, yes. But ultimately, it's perfectly feasible to have a great run, and for your players to be over-confident following a win over Arsenal or Barcalona, then take Swindon Town too lightly and get beaten 2-0. You can't win every game, people.

To the OP - it's best waiting until the end of the summer holidays for a thread like this, you will get a much more reasoned argument then.

To the few who believe the game cheats - It doesn't, all the "proof" listed here is either a bug, ficticious, or a tactical related problem.

The arguments where people say "x always happens to me" are just a classic case of our memories being dominated by things that annoy us - if anybody doubts this, next time you start a season, have a pen and paper next to your PC - fold it in half, on one half make a tick when something daft goes in your favour (i.e. dodgy backpasses etc) and on the other half make a tick when something goes in the AIs favour. It will swiftly become apparent that there is NO AI bias, it's just that we remember things innaccurately - note i'm not accusing anyone of lying.

Anyway - i suspect that this thread will just degenerate into a bunch of "fanboy" related insults - the fact is, the game does not cheat - therefore i thinks this thread would cause less harm closed. (appologies to the op, it's just that you can't control the IQ of posters )

I've gone for the 'it's your tactics' option but really I'd have liked to have voted for a option that says 'It is to do with the myriad influences on a football team on a given day'.

Tactics (of course), team gelling, rubbish players, poor decisions, lack of consistency, poor morale, poor characteristics, age, weather, match fitness, team talks... etc. etc. etc. and also, just plain old luck!

At the end of the day, Football Manager is the best football game ever created. It's incredible when you stop to think about how realistic it is.

I don't win every game and I'm not even particularly a genius at the game but I do know that when something goes wrong that it has something to do with me and not the game. Quite often it turns out to be something I didn't think of, like bad morale due to a poor team talk or a player mistake due to lack of match practice.

Look at the aspects of the game you are getting wrong. There are lots of places to look when your team starts making mistakes.

C.

my tactics force the game into cheating....ha

I've gone for the 'it's your tactics' option but really I'd have liked to have voted for a option that says 'It is to do with the myriad influences on a football team on a given day'.

Tactics (of course), team gelling, rubbish players, poor decisions, lack of consistency, poor morale, poor characteristics, age, weather, match fitness, team talks... etc. etc. etc. and also, just plain old luck!

At the end of the day, Football Manager is the best football game ever created. It's incredible when you stop to think about how realistic it is.

I don't win every game and I'm not even particularly a genius at the game but I do know that when something goes wrong that it has something to do with me and not the game. Quite often it turns out to be something I didn't think of, like bad morale due to a poor team talk or a player mistake due to lack of match practice.

Look at the aspects of the game you are getting wrong. There are lots of places to look when your team starts making mistakes.

C.

Fair point - there was an excellent thread a few months back titled along the lines of "It's not just your tactics" that described what you've listed here in depth.

Unfortunately those that believe they are cheated will probably not pay too much attention to proof to the contrary.

Fair point - there was an excellent thread a few months back titled along the lines of "It's not just your tactics" that described what you've listed here in depth.

Unfortunately those that believe they are cheated will probably not pay too much attention to proof to the contrary.

It's simple though really isn't it?

You look at the stats and see where things are going wrong. Assuming your tactics are fine, then something must be wrong elsewhere.

Team gelling is a huge factor in the game. I found this out in my career game. I moved from club to club rebuilding teams and often I would play like crap for the first six months due to making too many changes. Then team gelling would hit 'strong understanding' and all of a sudden things would be excellent.

Match fitness is also a major factor, especially in key positions. Why is your striker having 6 chances and not burying any of them? Perhaps he lacks match fitness.

A manager should ask himself questions all of the time.

E.g. Why did my defender get a 5 a make a huge error? First place to look, fitness. Next, morale. Then, how did he react to my team talk. In fact, is he even a good player? Did the opposition striker win all of his headers? What's my team gelling like? Perhaps he hasn't got a good understanding with his colleagues yet.

Was I doing things tactically right? I was playing a team of equal ability at home and my scout told me that the opposition were playing a defensive game. Therefore perhaps I made a mistake by telling my defensive line to sit deep - they gave the opposition too much space in the middle of the park.

These are all of the questions to ask. The game simply doesn't cheat - what would be the point of SI making the game cheat? It's ridiculous and makes a mockery of an excellent simulation.

C.

It's simple though really isn't it?

You look at the stats and see where things are going wrong. Assuming your tactics are fine, then something must be wrong elsewhere.

These are all of the questions to ask. The game simply doesn't cheat - what would be the point of SI making the game cheat? It's ridiculous and makes a mockery of an excellent simulation.

C.

If everyone asked themselves these questions before posting the world would be a better place

Unfortunately "the game cheats" appears to be a much easier concept for some people to grasp.

Why is it cheating? Surely it's just random, a team you don't know anything about. It's a shortfall in the game, not cheating.

I am paying for my players (with money not coming from a blank account) and they don't , next time i meet them in the UEFA cup why i can not have the super grays and they to have my crappy real ones?

The thing is "BUY REAL PLAYERS OR LOSE" , they are coming from a non active league? sure but why should i care?

You can have a player with a PA of 195, but without decent youth facilities he will never realise that potential. If you have a player with a PA of 140 and decent youth setup, the 140 player is more likely to play for his country. Scouting is a well-known issue, though. Hopefully it'll be fixed.

Strange but all my players are reaching their potential every single time ....not to mention that the PA 195 player will have CA140 after 3 years at max .

For the AI to cheat would take a conscious decision to manipulate the shortcomings of the game. It can't. It has no motivation.

Sure it has no motivation but i am looking at the outcome and the outcome is that AI has unfair advantages over the gamer .

I didn't complained about match engine , not even one shot goal wins .

If everyone asked themselves these questions before posting the world would be a better place

Unfortunately "the game cheats" appears to be a much easier concept for some people to grasp.

I couldn't agree with that more. I don't feel the game "cheats", as after all, most things concerning the match happen in real life.

http://www.sufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/MatchReport/0,,10418~27536,00.html

Sheffield United vs. Derby County - 15th April 2005.

Number of shots on target? SUFC - 5 Derby - 2

Final score? SUFC 0 - 1 Derby.

Not a perfect example, I know - but it proves my point...ish. SUFC had the most shots on and off target, but lost from a goal that was scored against the run of play.

It's because people don't know where they're going wrong, so they come on here seeking an explanation. Unfortunately their posts are rather...unsavoury, and if the instructions aren't easy enough, they won't budge on their viewpoint.

Question: Does it matter about whether or not the AI cheats?

Answer: No. It's a bloody game, for goodness sake!

The fact that the AI "cheats" will not make a difference as to whether you find a partner and have fun with him/her. It won't make a difference as to whether you get promoted or not at work.

Just realise that you could be doing so much more with your life instead of complaining about a game online.

Question: Does it matter about whether or not the AI cheats?

Answer: No. It's a bloody game, for goodness sake!

The fact that the AI "cheats" will not make a difference as to whether you find a partner and have fun with him/her. It won't make a difference as to whether you get promoted or not at work.

Just realise that you could be doing so much more with your life instead of complaining about a game online.

Well personally, I value my leisure time and am glad I have FM to fill it with because I thoroughly enjoy it. I'm also glad of these forums so I can discuss the game with like-minded people. I don't believe the AI cheats at all, so I don't use the forums for that. However, I can understand that other people who might happen to think that way would want to come on here and talk about it if they, like me, also value their leisure time, enjoy the game, and want it to get even better.

Just because a computer game has no connection to whether or not you'll find love or get promoted at work doesn't mean it's wrong to place some value on what it does give you.

And another thing...

I'd like to think it's possible to lose matches without the AI cheating OR because of your tactics. What I mean is that, in real life, I'm sure managers send their team out with perfectly adequate tactics, but lose anyway just because of a gulf in class or because the opposition had an unstoppably good day. Therefore, I hope this also explains some defeats in FM. It can't always be tactics, but I don't believe the AI cheats, either.

Well personally, I value my leisure time and am glad I have FM to fill it with because I thoroughly enjoy it. I'm also glad of these forums so I can discuss the game with like-minded people. I don't believe the AI cheats at all, so I don't use the forums for that. However, I can understand that other people who might happen to think that way would want to come on here and talk about it if they, like me, also value their leisure time, enjoy the game, and want it to get even better.

Just because a computer game has no connection to whether or not you'll find love or get promoted at work doesn't mean it's wrong to place some value on what it does give you.

Thanks for that - that argument was crap the moment I wrote it down..

The AI is too smart which causes many to think it cheats. For example, the AI knows which players I'm hard tackling and moves that player to the striker position to try for a penalty. The counter tactics that some AI teams put up is too effective, by the time I figured out what's going on it'll be too late. Granted it will be easier to cope with experience, it becomes crazy when I switch leagues or take part in international competitions where the tactics can be very different from game to game. Perhaps the commentator can give more details once tactical changes are made. I'm using my eyes to observe, the AI is practically copying and analyzing my tactics in nanoseconds. In real life exam or competition, that's cheating.

On a totally different topic coz i cant find it anywhere, do you get prize money in la liga?

As you're knew I assume you don't know you can post new threads of your own?

EDIT: There isn't any prize money, but there is a search feature. Click the drop-down "Search" along the bar at the top and type in your keywords. I would advise that you use that in future before asking any questions.

yeah but do you know?

The big issue is not if the AI cheats or not. The issue is that we THINK it cheats. This is the actual problem.

Oh lol, some people a?

The bleeding game's cheated me alright, but I've also done some duff tactics. But sometimes, when like you've gone a whole season unbeaten in the league, but every cup game is a loss, or the only team that beats you is non league?! It's not funny at the time, but I always laugh in the end, IT'S PART OF THE FUN!!!

if you want i can upload my save game and you can see at least one of those situations happen each game. or you can also pick up any normal team instead of big clubs...

i'm still waiting to someone to explain how a normal club, with medium coaches and medium facilities and that played 120+ minutes in last game , can have all players with 95% after 3 days of rest... oh wait it must be the godly training schudle they have...

It doesn't cheat, and it's not your tactics.

Just one of them things, you can't win 'em all, chalk it down to experience and keep pluggng away, I'm as sick as a parrot and other assorted footballing cliches.

So where's the neither option?

To the OP - it's best waiting until the end of the summer holidays for a thread like this, you will get a much more reasoned argument then.

Sorry I live in New Zealand totally forgot the UK had summer hols! You would think after being eductated in the UK I would remember such things, haha.

I think the poll fairly reflects the split I was expecting a 60% the game cheats in some form, to a 40% its purely your tactics.

I think this argument could rumble on for ever though with no deffinative answer either way. Its just like the way people still argue over who shot JFK.

Not necessarily cheating, this, but it's to do with the "grey players" issue. I'm managing Eastbourne Borough (in the Blue Square South) and we play Eastbourne Town (a non-league team full of grey players). We draw 2-2 and in my confidence it says that the fans were pleased that we performed so well against a team with a "higher reputation" than us, which is blatantly not true and can point to a reason why, even after 8.0.2, grey teams are still tough. Methinks something wasn't fiddled with that needed to be.

Oh and I was on a winning streak, changed my skin and next game, I lost. I blamed the skin.

its obviously a bit of both

nobody can honestly say its never there tactics

or that the game never cheats

deep down we all know

The big issue is not if the AI cheats or not. The issue is that we THINK it cheats. This is the actual problem.

You have single handedly restored my faith in new users! Bravo!

I was trying to explain this in one of my previous posts (some months ago) - the major issue here is NOT whether or not the game does cheat - the fact is, it doesn't, and no arguing will change that - but the issue is that there is a PERCEPTION of feeling cheated, and this is primarily because the game gives NO feedback whatsoever, hence the user sees 22 shots to 1 in their favour, and quite reasonably blames the game for their failure to win.

For this reason, a useful assman is an essential addition for FM09 (or 10) as this is the perfect medium through which to give the user some subtle nudges in the right direction.

The big issue is not if the AI cheats or not. The issue is that we THINK it cheats. This is the actual problem.

its obviously a bit of both

nobody can honestly say its never there tactics

or that the game never cheats

deep down we all know

If you talk to the likes of wwfan or cleon, you will soon be corrected on your point of view - the levels of success some of the tactics forum chaps achieve proves beyond all doubt that the game does not cheat.

You have single handedly restored my faith in new users! Bravo!

I was trying to explain this in one of my previous posts (some months ago) - the major issue here is NOT whether or not the game does cheat - the fact is, it doesn't, and no arguing will change that - but the issue is that there is a PERCEPTION of feeling cheated, and this is primarily because the game gives NO feedback whatsoever, hence the user sees 22 shots to 1 in their favour, and quite reasonably blames the game for their failure to win.

For this reason, a useful assman is an essential addition for FM09 (or 10) as this is the perfect medium through which to give the user some subtle nudges in the right direction.

I've nothing useful to say. Just wanted to register my approval for one of the best posts I've ever read on here.

I dont think the game cheats. If you think about it, you probably had games with 1 shot on target compared to your opponents 25, but yet you still get a decent result. So no the game doesnt cheat.