we need a revolution...

FM2009 will come, but are you tired?

In my opinion there are two revolutions in the SI history: the wonderful conceive of champion manager, and 2D screen for first time.

CM4,CM03/04,FM2005,FM2006,FM2007,FM2008...All of these do not have essential difference! just patches, modifications, more and more beautiful skins...

anyway, I love this game.

I don't really know what you're saying or what this revolution would entail.

Thank you for that.

''All of these do not have essential difference! just patches, modifications, more and more beautiful skins...

anyway, I love this game.''

i agree about this

Football Manager Live is going to be completely different.

The thing is where could you go with FM apart from trying to make it more realistic?

He's just saying the series needs to take a bigger step forward than it has in the past few years.

He's just saying the series needs to take a bigger step forward than it has in the past few years.

That's fair enough, but he hasn't given any suggestions as to how to do this or what this "revolution" would be.

That's for SI to decide on

That's fair enough, but he hasn't given any suggestions as to how to do this or what this "revolution" would be.

yeah i don't really know what the revolution would be and i just think that the revolution is necessary:D

if i can put forward more advices maybe i could work for SI:)

championship manager wouldnt have been a revolution, that was the start. anyway if we had a big revolution then we would be back at 08, then it would be jnuary patch/fm10 until we got a decent game.

why do you include CM4 in that list? It was the biggest revolution in CM/FM. Also FM05 was a revolution

everyone says that football manager has to have bigger changes, but when someone ask him to name possible changes, there is usually no answer.

He's just saying the series needs to take a bigger step forward than it has in the past few years.

To me, he seemed to be arguing that the versions don't differ enough from each other. But that's where FM is different to other games. You can't just throw new features at it each time it comes out. The focus should always be on steady improvements to what is there, whilst, in my opinion, always aiming to increase realism.

i agree with the first poster - its time to take it onto a new level

as much as they add new skins to improve it by adding graphics, its still very spreadsheet like and needs some inovation on the front end to make it feel fresh...new skins only do so much

i dont think i can take any more of the same old ,esepcially being personally dissapointed with FM2008..which i can't play as its just way to balenced and far too many goals using 8.0.2.. it just doesnt feel realistic or fair

everyone says that football manager has to have bigger changes, but when someone ask him to name possible changes, there is usually no answer.

The majority of people here won't know what is and isn't possible though. I'm sure anyone could come up with a huge list of big changes but it's all a bit irrelevant if SI can't do it.

Only one problem with Revolutions they start off good and usually go downhill from then on.

Look at the 2d Match engine, it was great at first and then slowly but surely nagging doubts about it started to creep in and then and your never quite sure when it happend you have started to hate it!

i think FM10 will be a very different to wat we been used to

Only one problem with Revolutions they start off good and usually go downhill from then on.

Look at the 2d Match engine, it was great at first and then slowly but surely nagging doubts about it started to creep in and then and your never quite sure when it happend you have started to hate it!

Firstly, the CM4 engine was pretty poor. As for starting to hate it, I can't agree with you there. I don't think I'd still be playing the series if it was text-only.

By nature a simulation based on millions of stats is kind of dry. I would say the daily chores for a manager at a real club are kinda dry. What makes it a great pasttime on the PC is the atmossphere and challenge it creates by putting you on the hot seat and focusing on the basic elements of interaction between you, the squad, the board. There is still room to give these kinds of interactions more flesh, but how it is, FM is a great story telling engine, about us having a career in this intriguing business. A real revolution for a footy manager would be the possibility to abandon the numbers for skills and stuff (at least visibly), if there were a way to really get to know your and other players, by having a great whatever system and whatever indicators but numbers. You see, it's hard to imagine how this ever could be done, but I'm sure it could be! Until then, FM could do something about long careers to become more believable with dynamic league rules, the odd new club or franchise forming somewhere, etc.

Maybe the next version could be set in space or something

There are lots of things that have been suggested in the wishlist that if incorporated could make the game feel brand new. Personally they could release FM08 as FM09 with lots of new interaction options and i'd be over the moon, other people would want more definate and noticeable changes. As for a revolution I think that's taking it too far and straying from the tried and trusted CM/FM format of excellent gameplay rather than fluffy crap changes that look good, would be disastrous for the game.

Let's face it. No one before has made a simulation of football managment as good as this one. The Eidos CM is trying to catch up and I hope we see with a good CM2009 or CM2010 SI pushing FM farther up. But they do right with consistency. FM wouldn't be helped to break up with many traditional elements. Even if the would take the ME to 3D, I'm sure you would be able to set it back to the dots. The same goes for gameplay features. As far as I understand, most of the over time added features won't get in your way if you don't want or need them. You can ignore them most of the times, if you don't feel comfortable. That's what I like. A revolution shouldn't be a complete new learning experience nor should FM add features you must deal with to be successful. You can play FM very much old style, not giving a damn about all these youth academies and stuff. Just always looking for the better stats player than what you have and try to save up for him. Okay, there are some elements now like reputation and stuff that makes it harder to get certain players, but it doesn't make you failing. Again, revolution for me is, to abandon all stats and try to introduce other ways to judge players.

love it.

I think next FM shall be a 90% a game and 10% simulation.

Also they shall drop all freebies AI gets .

Build some on/off switches in modules ( sucking, media , board interaction, view player PA/CA)

Give us stadium expansions, much better detailed training , training facilities and development of young players.

All data should be in text files (with instructions) so we can edit as we want (yes this includes match engine)

Add / remove / totally edit competitions in the editor.

Built in tactics testing tool

Fix all annoyances in the game.

The future belongs to modable games , it is not how much you control the game after you load it but to be able to dictate how the game will be played before you hit the game.exe .

Ah and a last thing , customers never wish , customers always demand.

Themistofelis,

The problem is that not everyone wants those things so customers demand is almost impossible to implement. I would be totally peeved if they spent time creating an option to edit the match engine and so devoted less time to other areas that could do with an overhaul. As for fix all annoyances in game, it's totally ambiguous and what one person finds annoying another might enjoy.

The customer has the right to wish and the right to demand, but not to expect. In a series that sells so many millions worldwide it's impossible for them to please everyone, certain "demands" will have to be ignored and so certain people will be disgruntled, I suggest you expect to be let down given some of your expectations.

Themistofelis,

The problem is that not everyone wants those things so customers demand is almost impossible to implement. I would be totally peeved if they spent time creating an option to edit the match engine and so devoted less time to other areas that could do with an overhaul.

Thats why i wrote about switches , so we can have a game closer to our preferences .They do edit the match engine using a tool , this tool will create a moding community and make people more active from just playing the game .

As for fix all annoyances in game, it's totally ambiguous and what one person finds annoying another might enjoy.

OK , lets talk about speed , this is the biggest annoyance in the game ; i have seen much "heavier" games with graphics and huge data proccessing run faster this is an annoyance that should be fixed.

Also i don't think that making buying players more difficult and losing players much easier (like they did in 08) make entire community cry of happiness.

The customer has the right to wish and the right to demand, but not to expect. In a series that sells so many millions worldwide it's impossible for them to please everyone, certain "demands" will have to be ignored and so certain people will be disgruntled, I suggest you expect to be let down given some of your expectations.

I didn't expect a game to please everyone or even fully satisfy one man ; i am saying that the community should at least demand more options . My expectations have to do with the philosophy that the game is built not with features ; if they are fail to implement their good ideas in the product of course i will support them ; if they make the perfect game but based on a philosophy that i do not like then i will not buy it.

And a last thing, asking for more is not in any way an insult to the product or the developers , even if you have the perfect game in your hands customer's duty is to always ask for more ; do encourage the programmers but never forget to ask for more.

Whether it's switches or not, it is time devoted to things that aren't essential and IMO the time should be spent on improving other features.

Your example of speed again differs from person to person, I find it just fine and have no issues with it at all, especially when you are able to browse during processing and complete some transfers/scouting etc. Transfers and losing players, again differs from person to person, I like it lol, I like the struggle and the emotions evoked when a chairman steps in, no other game evokes that sort of emotion.

I totally agree that the community has the right to voice concerns and request additions, if I listen to my own arguments then I have to say that things I want introduced probably won't be introduced because not everyone would like them. I just don't think there should be an expectation of changes like the ones you've listed (that isn't to say they should be considered bad ideas).

The main changes were the move from CM97/98 to CM3 then CM4 then a little to FM.

These changes all involved a redesign of the game code, which I do not think is needed. It needs tweaking and is already coded for future features to be implemented.

The game is the best manager sim upto now the only thing the could do is a 3d match engine but they could take a few years to develop it

one thing that i would like to see is a F1 Manager Si would make a great one and I bet there would be quite a bit of interest

I agree with Man_U_King, it is the best sim around, but I don't think that means SI can sit back and relax, they should be striving to improve every year. I'll ignore the 3d comment because I don't want another thread to start into that , but I completely disagree that it is the only possible addition and there are hundreds of excellent suggestions in the wishlist thread.

F1 Manager would be fun, I remember playing a microsoft F1 managment game when I was doign my GCSE's (97ish) it was fun, but no real depth. I don't see SI making one though.

I'm with the OP on this one. The FM game format is being pushed along incrementally, but all recent features have been essentially more "fluff". Facegen is nice, but not necessary. Having all the extra leagues is nice for those fans who want to play their home leagues, but that doesn't bring forward the game play. Board confidence doesn't work properly. Newgen problems, match engine problems, etc etc. You've read all the posts over the past 9 months...

One change is to make it more modular, so you can go for basic vs advanced modules (e.g. training, media, transfers, whatever...). That way you can streamline your gaming the way you want it. Switch off ridiculous stuff like Board Confidence, for example.

A revolution in game play would be to move from the current static db-driven mode to some kind of dynamic game play, where the options available are not a pre-defined set of static texts (e.g. half time team talks, media responses, mind game options, etc). The 2D match engine is dynamic in the sense that you can introduce changes that will result in unknown outcomes. Sure, it requires recalculation, but the more you change, the more dynamic it is.

One way to bring the game format further and make it less static is to introduce other "engines", say a hype-engine (lots of media interaction), a history-engine (putting performances into greater historical context), voice-based dynamic commentary (not the current, outdated static text-based commentary) and so on -- modular, of course, so you can decide to include them or not.

Yes, 3D is another way forward.

These are just some ideas that I came up with over the past 15 minutes. None of them would be easy to implement, but SI is just cruising on an old code base at the moment.

FM08 is great and all, but it's really just an iteration of CM4, when the match engine was introduced.

New match engine.

I agree with the idea that something new needs to be injected into FM in order to spice it back into it's prime, at least for me.

There's tons of great ideas in the Wishlist thread that SI could use and I hope they do add as many new features that would actually benefit the game play of the game in some way. With that said, FM is definitely the best game in it's genre. I do think that the competitors need to step their game up because it seems as if the game developers are running out of ideas to implement into the game. CM is also getting better slowly but surely, and I can only imagine that this would be a good challenge for FM to keep improving and not just throwing out updates of the database each year.

I think there should be more media about players personal lives...

Like they got drunk at a pub or something and made a fool of themself etc etc. which means you would have to speak on their behalf to try and stop the club from getting a bad name.

Or even media attention about players having sex and filming it on mobile phones...happen enough...LOL!

i agree with the first poster - its time to take it onto a new level

as much as they add new skins to improve it by adding graphics, its still very spreadsheet like and needs some inovation on the front end to make it feel fresh...new skins only do so much

i dont think i can take any more of the same old ,esepcially being personally dissapointed with FM2008..which i can't play as its just way to balenced and far too many goals using 8.0.2.. it just doesnt feel realistic or fair

More pictures and 'beautiful' things they add the slower it going to load. Fifa Manager had too much going on, got confusing and was boring as hell. FM is great as its quite simple to follow and I know in FM09 I will be able to play it straight away and not understand stupid training techniques or what a certain graphics image meant, or its purpose.

On your second note, FM08 was very disapointing. What happened to the FM players with no internet connections. Without the patch you couldnt play more than one season of SPL...That kind of error shouldnt even have been released.

Regardless I still enjoy it, as I can get the patches and updates and its rated my favourite game.

I think there should be more media about players personal lives...

Like they got drunk at a pub or something and made a fool of themself etc etc. which means you would have to speak on their behalf to try and stop the club from getting a bad name.

Or even media attention about players having sex and filming it on mobile phones...happen enough...LOL!

I assume this is a joke, but if it's not i'll just reiterate what is always said when this topic gets brought up. SI can't add this because of the legal implications, depicting a player as an aggressive drunk would not be legal and the players wouldn't take too kindly to it.

At the moment there is a feature about disciplining players for being late for training and the news article states that they were out late the night before, but this only happens with newgens as they are made up.

Well if your looking for a revolution then I think we have it in FM Live because of the creation of teams, pitch type and online play. It's got it all.

everyone says that football manager has to have bigger changes, but when someone ask him to name possible changes, there is usually no answer.

Building youth academies in differnet countries? / better youth system

Better media interaction, etc, etc, etc, etc

Building youth academies in differnet countries? / better youth system

Better media interaction, etc, etc, etc, etc

Yeah, but I think the main gripe with threads ike this is that the wishlist offers plenty of "revolutionary" options, so whats the point in saying we need a revolution and not backing it up.

Well if your looking for a revolution then I think we have it in FM Live because of the creation of teams, pitch type and online play. It's got it all.

It's more a revolution in Fantasy Football and online gaming than in Football Manager, in my opinion.