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list of match engine issues (non-tactical)


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I have found a few things that I believe are not correctly simulated in the FM match engine, related mostly to physics (ie non-tactical issues such as the well known problem of fielding 2 MCs on a 4-2-3-1, or the inability to set 4-man defenses to play as 3-man defenses when in possession). I have therefore compiled a small list of these. These have not been found through scientific analysis, only through observation of matches, mostly in highlights mode which may also skew the perception. I also know a few will be already have spotted by SI as they've often mentioned they're developing a new version of the match engine with new ball physics. Nevertheless, it's worth putting these up for debate.

This is what I have spotted:

- Corners are too accurate wich makes it easy to score lots of headed goals from close range

- Keepers going out of their way to grab crosses almost never happens. This is connected to the previous issue, being another reason why there's too many corner goals from close range

- Headed shots are almost never downwards which makes it nearly impossible to score headers in corners from slightly longer range (ex. around keepers area edges)

- Connected to the previous issues, I believe jumping is slightly overpowered and heading slightly underpowered when it comes to scoring from headers. It's correct that players that jump high should win the ball more often, but I believe players with accurate heading should be scoring more from slightly longer range. I have seen no discernible higher amount of free headers (unmarked/no opposition) from players with higher heading attribute over players with low heading attribute

- Loads of penalties scored down the middle but never Panenka style, probably just a matter of adding the animation and the commentary line

- No dip in ball from free kick takers. Makes it impossible to score free kicks over the barrier, every goal seems to go around the barrier

- Too easy to score free kicks from short range, too difficult to score from long range. Number of free kick goals is correct (very few are scored nowadays in real life football and this is reflected correctly in FM)

- Headed passes in general open play seem far too accurate, particularly striking when players have no time to react yet pass it perfectly to a team-mate even in awkward angles

- Players even with decent/good teamwork are too selfish, almost never noticing players on better positions when one-on-one with keeper from tight angles

- Very few goals from deflected shots. This is probably one of the most striking issues

- Very few goals from keeper parrying shots wrongly into the path of forwards

- Strikers find it too easy to time runs correctly, which seems to me the main cause of why pace is overpowered in the match engine. Hoof the ball upfront and a quick striker even with poor off-the-ball awareness will outpace defenders and get himself on one-on-one positions too often. Pace is very important in the modern game but it's still way too overpowered.

- Connected to the previous issue, I believe finishing is slightly underpowered in the match engine, slow forwards with intelligent movement, composed/able to handle pressure and accurate finishing should score more goals.

Please add more that you have spotted, or debate those that you may or may not agree with. Cheers. :thup:

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Another one:

- On one-on-ones, keepers with high bravery occasionally dive to smother the ball from the feet of the striker which is correct, however I do not see keepers diving or dropping to their knees to close the angle of the forward, instead waiting for the shot then diving. This is probably just a matter of adding a new animation

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- Loads of penalties scored down the middle but never Panenka style, probably just a matter of adding the animation and the commentary line

This is the sort of thing that, if they introduced it, or actually, for us to notice that they’d introduced it, it would become an unrealistically high occurrence.

As cool as they are, the truth is that panenka style penalties are very rare. Most FM’ers only watch matches involving their team. If we were in charge of a team for 25 years, let’s use Sir Alex as an example, I would say he’s seen zero panenka style penalties in his time there. Man U eggheads, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!

My point is we only see them in real life very very rarely, so if they were to be introduced in the game AND occur a realistic amount of times, we would likely never notice the feature anyway.

In fact, how do we know it isn’t already in the game :D

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- Defensive movements. Central defenders dont respect pressing settings and rush into midfielder, leaving unmarked the opponent's forward. Defense totally confused on basic attacking movements of my opponent like cutting inside or overlaps.

- Defenders and midfielder not really eager to catch the ball. They are indolent and lazy, not tackling whatever the setting and pressing by distance whatever the setting. Basically they let the opponent approaching your box too easily.

- Again and again and again, the challange of the century: yet the player closer to the ball step to cover his position instead of catch it.

- Players having a good and easy advantage to pick the ball, starts walking for no reason, and the opponent win the tackle.

- Attributes: if a player of mine has 18 on set piece, i expect from him to score 70%-80% of free kicks from just outside the box. Not 2 goals over an whole season. Same for finishing, composure and heading etc. etc. etc.

- Kicking a corner to a teammate, he gives the ball back for an obvious offside. Everytime. Happens on free kicks as well.

- We don't want and new schemes for the old set-piece settings. We won't new schemes for new set-piece settings.

- Trainings: please make them more deep and specific. More "pro" i'd say. We need something new.

- Game levels: add this feature so that everybody can play the game they want to. Easy for newcomers, low level challange, tactical options limited, good budget. Medium, as it is now. Hard, for people who is experienced with game, new and deep and very specific tactic settings, new training settings, hard level challange that requires brain to win a match. Something like that, just an idea.

- Please, do something NEW, we don't care of 3D or ball physics or stadia or interface. But please make a game that make us say "wow I REALLY WON THIS".

Maybe i'll remember something else later.

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- Defensive movements. Central defenders dont respect pressing settings and rush into midfielder, leaving unmarked the opponent's forward. Defense totally confused on basic attacking movements of my opponent like cutting inside or overlaps.

- Defenders and midfielder not really eager to catch the ball. They are indolent and lazy, not tackling whatever the setting and pressing by distance whatever the setting. Basically they let the opponent approaching your box too easily.

- Again and again and again, the challange of the century: yet the player closer to the ball step to cover his position instead of catch it.

- Players having a good and easy advantage to pick the ball, starts walking for no reason, and the opponent win the tackle.

True issues but I have not noticed them personally.

- Attributes: if a player of mine has 18 on set piece, i expect from him to score 70%-80% of free kicks from just outside the box. Not 2 goals over an whole season. Same for finishing, composure and heading etc. etc. etc.

I don't think this is correct, the best free kick takers in the world do not score more than 4 goals per season and even then that's a push. I think the number of free kick goals in FM is right, just not the right kind of free kicks.

- Kicking a corner to a teammate, he gives the ball back for an obvious offside. Everytime. Happens on free kicks as well.

I have noticed this yes, and it's annoying. It does happen in real life but only rarely and when the players are not focused because it's a fairly dumb thing to do.

- We don't want and new schemes for the old set-piece settings. We won't new schemes for new set-piece settings.

- Trainings: please make them more deep and specific. More "pro" i'd say. We need something new.

- Game levels: add this feature so that everybody can play the game they want to. Easy for newcomers, low level challange, tactical options limited, good budget. Medium, as it is now. Hard, for people who is experienced with game, new and deep and very specific tactic settings, new training settings, hard level challange that requires brain to win a match. Something like that, just an idea.

- Please, do something NEW, we don't care of 3D or ball physics or stadia or interface. But please make a game that make us say "wow I REALLY WON THIS".

Sorry, none of this belongs in this thread, I meant this only for match engine physics/animation issues. Besides I don't agree with anything here, maybe there's enough set piece schemes, but training has been made deeper in old CMs/FMs with specific routines (ex. piggy in the middle) and it was horrible, the current training is much better; game levels have no place in a simulation and there's already a "level" by setting your pre-career experience at the start; not sure what you mean by the last as FM is already very very deep, I pity the developers who have to come up with new selling features when the game is already so extensive, and the existent features are refined every year.

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This is the sort of thing that, if they introduced it, or actually, for us to notice that they’d introduced it, it would become an unrealistically high occurrence.

As cool as they are, the truth is that panenka style penalties are very rare. Most FM’ers only watch matches involving their team. If we were in charge of a team for 25 years, let’s use Sir Alex as an example, I would say he’s seen zero panenka style penalties in his time there. Man U eggheads, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!

My point is we only see them in real life very very rarely, so if they were to be introduced in the game AND occur a realistic amount of times, we would likely never notice the feature anyway.

In fact, how do we know it isn’t already in the game :D

I don't think they're very rare, I've seen loads recently and not just the Pirlo and Sergio Ramos in the euros, in some recent friendlies too. They're very common in latin countries. Maybe as often as 1 in 20 or 30, it needs a cocky/brave player with technique though.

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Another rare event that it's not in the game, players with low sportsmanship when complacent and winning by an high score, trying to taunt the opposition by doing pointless stuff like keepy-uppies or one-twos deep into their own half. This in turn should anger the opponents, leading the most temperamental ones to resort to violence.

Admittedly this one would only happen very very rarely but I'm sure our South American FM-playing friends have seen this happening loads of times in real life. :D

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Sorry, none of this belongs in this thread, I meant this only for match engine physics/animation issues. Besides I don't agree with anything here, maybe there's enough set piece schemes, but training has been made deeper in old CMs/FMs with specific routines (ex. piggy in the middle) and it was horrible, the current training is much better; game levels have no place in a simulation and there's already a "level" by setting your pre-career experience at the start; not sure what you mean by the last as FM is already very very deep, I pity the developers who have to come up with new selling features when the game is already so extensive, and the existent features are refined every year.

Yeah im sorry i went out of the path and a bit off-topic with those spots :) So i won't discuss or explaining those furtherly.

What i can discuss is about free kicks. I dare to say Juninho Pernambucano would disagree with you.

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Ok, you pick the guy who has been described as the best ever free kick taker as an example.....

Anyway, a quick search shows he scored 44 free kick goals in 350 games for Lyon over the course of 9 seasons, so the best ever free kick taker could only average 4.8 free kick goals a season, so no where even close to 80% of the free kicks he took.

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Indirect free kicks, aimed at far post are 9/10 headed in.

Long throws high up the pitch behave like corners

1 direct freekick a season you score. (you telling me man utd score from 1 free kick a season?)

goalkeepers parry the ball to the opposition far too often.

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Ok, you pick the guy who has been described as the best ever free kick taker as an example.....

Anyway, a quick search shows he scored 44 free kick goals in 350 games for Lyon over the course of 9 seasons, so the best ever free kick taker could only average 4.8 free kick goals a season, so no where even close to 80% of the free kicks he took.

Considered he talked about "the best free kick taker in the world", i brought the best free kick taker in the world as example. It seems fair to me :)

Also that stat means nothing. You don't have to consider how many goals he scored from free kicks compared to games played. But how many scored from how many kicked. (im sorry for my awful english, somedays is good, somedays is just horrible. Today is horrible :) )

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Considered he talked about "the best free kick taker in the world", i brought the best free kick taker in the world as example. It seems fair to me :)

Also that stat means nothing. You don't have to consider how many goals he scored from free kicks compared to games played. But how many scored from how many kicked. (im sorry for my awful english, somedays is good, somedays is just horrible. Today is horrible :) )

Well if we take the average over the season (4.8), then consider what 100% would be if 4.8 is 80% (5.5) then it would mean he would have only taken 49.5 free kicks in his Lyon career........ now i dont think he only hit 50 free kicks in 9 seasons. Your statistic is completely unrealistic.

(god i hope my maths is correct.......)

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Milner, i said 70%-80%. Too much? ok what about 50%? 40% would be better than 2 in 70-80 matches, that is 0,02% of ratio. 40% is too much, let's say 10%, 5%... what the hell :) 5% would be fine considered that 0,02! 1% would be better ahahah!

You say my statistic is unrealistic. Well let's say both of us are untrustable. Because i don't have a statistic about how many free kicks he kicked straight to goal. And i haven't read you have, so... whatever the math your post can't be taken as reliable.

And however 4,8% compared to 0,02% is a difference. Of course we're talking about the best vs. the garbage.

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Well if we take the average over the season (4.8), then consider what 100% would be if 4.8 is 80% (5.5) then it would mean he would have only taken 49.5 free kicks in his Lyon career........ now i dont think he only hit 50 free kicks in 9 seasons. Your statistic is completely unrealistic.

(god i hope my maths is correct.......)

If the AI teams scored 80% of their freekicks against me id be fuming. :-)

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Well i dont need to know exactly how many he has taken, i just needed to put the real life stats into context with your statistic. You said he would score 80% of his free kicks, i pointed out how many he had actually scored in 9 seasons, then took your statistic to show for you to be correct he would have only taken 50 free kicks in 9 seasons, now ask yourself, did he really only take 50 direct free kicks in 9 seasons whilst playing for Lyon?

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Milner, i said 70%-80%. Too much? ok what about 50%? 40% would be better than 2 in 70-80 matches, that is 0,02% of ratio. 40% is too much, let's say 10%, 5%... what the hell :) 5% would be fine considered that 0,02! 1% would be better ahahah!

You say my statistic is unrealistic. Well let's say both of us are untrustable. Because i don't have a statistic about how many free kicks he kicked straight to goal. And i haven't read you have, so... whatever the math your post can't be taken as reliable.

And however 4,8% compared to 0,02% is a difference. Of course we're talking about the best vs. the garbage.

I'll link the stat I posted the other day in another thread: http://enbsports.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/2010-2011-la-liga-direct-free-kick.html

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Those stats prove that i cleary exagerated on my stats, my fault. Apologize. Yet they are higher compared to what i see in game. Or they just prove that spanish free kick takers are horribles ;)

If the AI teams scored 80% of their freekicks against me id be fuming. :-)

Eheh yeah that's right mate, i'd be fuming as well i assume :D

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Looking at that link this jumped out,

Ronaldo took 52 shots at net from direct free kicks 34 more than the next player in La Liga scoring 5 goals

So there is no way in any reallity that Juninhio only took 50 direct free kicks in 9 seasons, i would say you could probably safely average 30 a season, keeping in mind that he was a better team player than Ronaldo and would probably put more balls into the box than Ronaldo would.

Going through all the sums would mean Junihino very roughly scored with around 6% of the free kicks he took, now keeping in mind he is regarded as the best ever, then i think its safe to say no player who is a regular direct free kick taker has ever scored 80% of their direct free kicks over the course of their career.

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Yeah mate i already said i was wrong and you were right about that statistic, however i still think i expect something more from a player regarded with a 18 on free kicks and 16 on long shots than a 0,02% avg. goals over 64 matches played.

Also: Barcellona rarely shot on goal from free kick. Ronaldo shot on goal even from 45 meters, decreasing his scoring ratio of course. I think, however, that 2 teams can't change too much the average, although i would be curious to read statistics from other leagues (i tried a search through google but i couldn't find what i was looking for).

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Milner, i said 70%-80%. Too much? ok what about 50%? 40% would be better than 2 in 70-80 matches, that is 0,02% of ratio. 40% is too much, let's say 10%, 5%... what the hell :) 5% would be fine considered that 0,02! 1% would be better ahahah!

You say my statistic is unrealistic. Well let's say both of us are untrustable. Because i don't have a statistic about how many free kicks he kicked straight to goal. And i haven't read you have, so... whatever the math your post can't be taken as reliable.

And however 4,8% compared to 0,02% is a difference. Of course we're talking about the best vs. the garbage.

Even penalties only have a 70% conversion rate on the average...

I would assume that a 10% conversion rate for direct free-kicks would already be absolute world class and probably even Juninho didn't achieve that. So why not talk in goals scored from free-kicks per season? The overall figures seems to be right. Maybe indeed the top wordclass takers (talking about attribute 20, not 17 or 18) should score around 5 per season.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The three things that drive me crazy are:

1. Players with the ball (especially DMs) that stop moving and start to slowly rotate before invariably being tackled by a player who jogged up from 10 yards away. God only knows what this is supposed to represent, but it just looks bizarre.

2. Players who despite having 17+ for dribbling, technical and agility etc. still manage to continually run the ball out of play while under no pressure whatsoever.

3. Players who just casually walk to intercept a stray ball right next to them while some opposition player steams in from 20 yards away to win it first. This has nothing to do with tactics or stats as any player from non league upwards would run for a lose ball!

These are the things that really annoy me as they are just plainly ridiculous and utterly destroy any suspension of disbelief. They can all be encountered after playing for a very short period of time which does lead one to question the quality of the SI testers. Either that or they just don't care.

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- Too easy to score free kicks from short range, too difficult to score from long range. Number of free kick goals is correct (very few are scored nowadays in real life football and this is reflected correctly in FM)

[video=youtube;DNE6AlVrf2g]

1:27 and 1:46. The guy has 18 for Free Kicks. He seems to miss more from close range than long range to be honest. Maybe this game was different as most shots flew in. :p

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its only a set few players that can score free kicks. in real life there are far more players who score from these. so far counted like 2 or 3 that do it consistantly.

I hate the static (or dancing) goalie.

I hate the random league 2 team playing like Barcalona to score that 1 random goal they don't deserve.

Indirect free kicks aimed at the defender at the far end ALWAYS is a goal.

Players clean through with half the net open for them on the left... put the ball wide of the right post... HOW FFS

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1. Players with the ball (especially DMs) that stop moving and start to slowly rotate before invariably being tackled by a player who jogged up from 10 yards away. God only knows what this is supposed to represent, but it just looks bizarre.

Thats an easy one, they are looking for passing options but can't find one within the parameters you have given them in their instructions.

2. Players who despite having 17+ for dribbling, technical and agility etc. still manage to continually run the ball out of play while under no pressure whatsoever.

I rarely see this where it isn't due to over-running the ball and even then its not that often.

3. Players who just casually walk to intercept a stray ball right next to them while some opposition player steams in from 20 yards away to win it first. This has nothing to do with tactics or stats as any player from non league upwards would run for a lose ball!

Maybe its partially due to the way you are shown the game via the graphics, the ME calculates the other player gets there first but it looks odd when the graphics shows it. Its also down to the players though, for some its concentration/tiredness/complacency that they just don't notice the opposition player who is more motivated while for others they are timing their run to the ball so they can turn the opposition player and continue with the ball.

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- Very few goals from keeper parrying shots wrongly into the path of forwards

I'm sorry. You mean there aren't enough goals scored when the keeper saves a shot straight into the path of a second attacker? I find there are way to many of these in the game and way to often only requires a simple tap in as the attacker is unmarked and get the ball straight to his feet.

I find this happens if you have a very solid defense and good GK that can keep plenty of clean sheets. These sort of goals occur more often, or so is the feeling anyway, as it's one of the few ways opposition will be able to score on you as your defense doesn't allow too many close range shots and clear chances. It's either that, weird own goals and corners I seem to concede under those circumstances.

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This is the sort of thing that, if they introduced it, or actually, for us to notice that they’d introduced it, it would become an unrealistically high occurrence.

As cool as they are, the truth is that panenka style penalties are very rare. Most FM’ers only watch matches involving their team. If we were in charge of a team for 25 years, let’s use Sir Alex as an example, I would say he’s seen zero panenka style penalties in his time there. Man U eggheads, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!

My point is we only see them in real life very very rarely, so if they were to be introduced in the game AND occur a realistic amount of times, we would likely never notice the feature anyway.

In fact, how do we know it isn’t already in the game :D

Lol, I think Dwight Yorke scored one once, but I'm fuzzy as to whether it was with Villa or United.

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- Players even with decent/good teamwork are too selfish, almost never noticing players on better positions when one-on-one with keeper from tight angles

this is one of the most annoying things in the ME. inside forward on the left with ball and two players free in the box. what does he do? shoot straight at the GK. EVERY TIME!!!!! and this is with long shots rarely, through balls often, and players with 15+ teamwork.

then there is the obvious corner and freekick flaws.

through balls are way too effective, defenders often freeze when a through ball is played. specially when a LST comes deep and the poacher RST goes forward.

fast strikers easily dribble slower DCs and get into one-on-one with GK

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